So I have moved to Azorius from UWR control after deciding I don't think draw-go control is good in my meta. My current iteration of the deck I'm testing is a little different than what I'm seeing but it is working very well in my testing. I'm still working on the sideboard but all input is appreciated!
This looks great, sort of a combination of UWR Midrange and Wafo-Tapa Control. I'm not sold on 0 paths, but I feel like adding cryptic is a good choice.
sword of war and peace. should be in your sideboard for the mirror anyways.
I didn't even think about how well that is in the hatebear match-up, I'll have to try swapping my Batterskull for a Sword of War and Peace.
@Fanne Blind Obedience would only stop bad Kiki-Pod/Twin players; it only delays their combo one turn. They can make a million copies on your end step, have them come into play tapped and then swing for the game on their turn.
Some of the choices are meta-calls like Mindcensor to combat Scapeshift and Pod. Replacing Izzet Charm with Boros Charm seems obvious to me; giving Geist's angel double-strike to get in for 8 or protecting your team? Sounds good to me. With Jund's temporary loss of popularity I think going down to 2 Lightning Helix is fine and going up to 4 Electrolyze and 4 Path to Exile. I'm trying to test out the 4th Remand vs Thundermaw or Resto Angel since I expect to see more blue. Considering testing out Spell Snare in place of Mana Leak as well but I'm not sure if that is a good idea...
While these are minor changes, they have been doing amazing for me. Let me know what you guys think.
It doesn't look like Bant gained much from Gatecrash other than land improvements. A great utility land that I am testing is Thespian's Stage; it doesn't come into play tapped, can copy whatever color necessary and can become a second Drownyard or whatever. Here is my attempt at optimizing our land base, not much else is different:
I have read your posts before about having an aggressive meta, but it seems hard for me to imagine a meta where there is about no control. You run 6 sweepers + 2 curses to handle meta but only have 2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage to handle opposing control (RiP to an extent as well).
To me, 2x Curses doesn't seem worth it no matter how aggressive your meta is and you should try to fit 1x more Jace, Memory Adept to shore up your control MU since you are counter-less as it is.
I run 5 sweepers MD, 1 SB; 4 Counters MD, 4 SB; 1 Jace,Architect of Thought, 1 Garruk, Primal Hunter, 1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage MD and 2 Jace, Memory Adept SB.
My meta is fairly split between Aggro/Midrange/Control so I like to be prepared for all of them. I can't imagine running this deck without Counterspells MD, as there are plenty of games where it stabilizes at a low life total and you can't have stuff killing you off of the top of your opponents deck. It also takes a lot of value away from the instant speed cards in the deck if there are no counters (at least in my opinion).
I also don't run think twice, since even in the control mirrors it usually comes down to who hits more Revelation's and it's terrible in the aggro matchups.
I compensate the lack of counters MD with 6 SB and the ability to take out most things and buy time MD such as 6 sweepers, 4 Azorius Charm, 3 Detention Sphere, 4 planeswalkers, and 2 Snapcaster Mage to reuse it all again.
I don't see me going up to 4 counters MD with my current meta since there is so much aggro but the 4C, Naya, and GW midrange lists have me thinking of going up to 2 Dissipate MD.
With the mana we have available I don't see why restricting yourself to Esper or Bant alone is superior than splashing G, or B respectively. I'll be running a new brew next friday. (Sorin, Deathrite, Lingering Souls, Neph. Drownyard M/D, with Appetite for Brains & Curse of Death's Hold in the S/B)
I wouldn't go to 4C control just yet, it is too janky right now. Our land-base is pretty good compared to the standard of SOM/INN blocks but I would wait the rest of the shock-lands to come out before going above 3C unless it is a very minute splash such Bant adding 1-2 Overgrown Tomb for Nephalia Drownyard. You could use it with Lingering Souls as well since you can cast it with W but only in Bant since they have Farseek to ensure they find it.
I don't believe Esper will be Tier 1 until Gatecrash but if you are set on trying there was a nice Esper Superfriends that was in 5-8th on an MTGO Premier. The link is here: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1080219
I feel like that is the best way to go about Esper control, but Bant honestly is the way to go for now because Selesnya and Azorious lands have been released as well as their guild cards. Esper is missing Orzhov and Dimir, which are what make it Esper rather than U/W splashing black.
So it seems like Bant Control is going a few different directions: There are lists that run 8 sweepers and some that run 4, some lists run 4+ counters and some run 0, and the final big difference is to run planeswalkers or not.
I've disliked using Think Twice and Augur of Bolas in my Bant deck. I've piloted variants of the following deck to go 5-0 and 4-0-1 at the local 50-man FNM.
So I went 3-1 in an event the other night, got Slaughter Games'd by Jund in my loss and very nearly lost to an Extirpate in another round but raw dogged some valakuts and beat down with Steve's and Tiagos. Has anyone tried boarding some Primeval Titans (in RUG versions)? Opponents will be boarding out removal against us and Prime Time could just mop up. Dodges Scapeshift hate like those I described above, can still kill with Valakut, and a 6/6 trampler is a pretty big deal.
The best sideboard plan against Jund, in my opinion, came from StarCityGames.com and is to have 3 Thagtusk and 2 Avenger of Zendikar to add another plan to win. Jund is about the only competitive deck that uses Slaughter Games so that's why I'm only proposing a sideboard plan for that match-up.
While I cannot discredit Craig Wescoe as being a great white weenie player, I feel like straight aggro is not efficient enough right now and we need to be playing more of a tempo game. Wescoe is attempting to go all in with his creatures, either by going over their heads or with first/double strike, and we need more efficient ways to ensure we can get damage through and set them back with cards like Feeling of Dread and Azorious Charm (Albeit Fiend Hunter does fill a similar role).
@macrie69 I don't know how you can say Ajani is better than Spectral Flight. Try testing them out and you will see than Spectral impacts the game quicker than Ajani does. This deck should focus on ending the game with Geist and Sublime and Geist has too good of synergy with Spectral.
4 Blade Spicer
3 Restoration Angel
4 Soltari Priest
2 Spellskite
2 Sun Titan
4 Wall of Omens
Instant / Sorcery (6)
2 Dismember
4 Path to Exile
Enchantment (3)
2 Detention Sphere
1 Threads of Disloyalty
Artifact( 3)
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace Beleren
Land (25)
2 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Negate
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Hibernation
I've been toying around with the deck for just a short while so any advice is very appreciated.
This looks great, sort of a combination of UWR Midrange and Wafo-Tapa Control. I'm not sold on 0 paths, but I feel like adding cryptic is a good choice.
I didn't even think about how well that is in the hatebear match-up, I'll have to try swapping my Batterskull for a Sword of War and Peace.
@Fanne
Blind Obedience would only stop bad Kiki-Pod/Twin players; it only delays their combo one turn. They can make a million copies on your end step, have them come into play tapped and then swing for the game on their turn.
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Instants (22)
2 Boros Charm
4 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
4 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Tectonic Edge
Some of the choices are meta-calls like Mindcensor to combat Scapeshift and Pod. Replacing Izzet Charm with Boros Charm seems obvious to me; giving Geist's angel double-strike to get in for 8 or protecting your team? Sounds good to me. With Jund's temporary loss of popularity I think going down to 2 Lightning Helix is fine and going up to 4 Electrolyze and 4 Path to Exile. I'm trying to test out the 4th Remand vs Thundermaw or Resto Angel since I expect to see more blue. Considering testing out Spell Snare in place of Mana Leak as well but I'm not sure if that is a good idea...
While these are minor changes, they have been doing amazing for me. Let me know what you guys think.
2 Augur of Bolas
2 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
Instants (14)
4 Azorius Charm
4 Dissipate
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Think Twice
Sorceries (9)
4 Farseek
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Terminus
2 Detention Sphere
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Jace, Memory Adept
Lands (26)
1 Alchemist's Refuge
3 Breeding Pool
4 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Hinterland Harbor
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Sunpetal Grove
3 Temple Garden
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Watery Grave
I have read your posts before about having an aggressive meta, but it seems hard for me to imagine a meta where there is about no control. You run 6 sweepers + 2 curses to handle meta but only have 2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage to handle opposing control (RiP to an extent as well).
To me, 2x Curses doesn't seem worth it no matter how aggressive your meta is and you should try to fit 1x more Jace, Memory Adept to shore up your control MU since you are counter-less as it is.
I compensate the lack of counters MD with 6 SB and the ability to take out most things and buy time MD such as 6 sweepers, 4 Azorius Charm, 3 Detention Sphere, 4 planeswalkers, and 2 Snapcaster Mage to reuse it all again.
I don't see me going up to 4 counters MD with my current meta since there is so much aggro but the 4C, Naya, and GW midrange lists have me thinking of going up to 2 Dissipate MD.
I wouldn't go to 4C control just yet, it is too janky right now. Our land-base is pretty good compared to the standard of SOM/INN blocks but I would wait the rest of the shock-lands to come out before going above 3C unless it is a very minute splash such Bant adding 1-2 Overgrown Tomb for Nephalia Drownyard. You could use it with Lingering Souls as well since you can cast it with W but only in Bant since they have Farseek to ensure they find it.
I feel like that is the best way to go about Esper control, but Bant honestly is the way to go for now because Selesnya and Azorious lands have been released as well as their guild cards. Esper is missing Orzhov and Dimir, which are what make it Esper rather than U/W splashing black.
Personally I am running 6 sweepers, 0 counters, and 4 planeswalkers (2 Jace, Architect of Thought, 1 Garruk, Primal Hunter, and 1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage). Does anyone disagree with this setup? My meta is very aggro and mid-range heavy with little control.
1 Alchemist's Refuge
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
2 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Steam Vents
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
Creature (11)
2 Angel of Serenity
3 Restoration Angel
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thragtusk
4 Farseek
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Terminus
Instant (9)
4 Azorius Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Cyclonic Rift
Enchantment (2)
2 Detention Sphere
Planeswalker (2)
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Rhox Faithmender
2 Feeling of Dread
2 Negate
2 Dissipate
2 Dispel
1 Terminus
1 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
I think the next changes I'm going to make is:
-1 Restoration Angel
-2 Cyclonic Rift
+1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
+1 Staff of Nin
+1 Sphinx's Revelation
The sideboard I am never too sure on... Snapcaster Mage has been amazing in either recasting a board wipe or Sphinx's Revelation. Kessig Wolf Run is more of my play style than Nephalia Drownyard and less people are prepared for it.
I'm not too sure about Staff of Nin and might add Garruk, Primal Hunter instead, but I'm not too sure of either.
The best sideboard plan against Jund, in my opinion, came from StarCityGames.com and is to have 3 Thagtusk and 2 Avenger of Zendikar to add another plan to win. Jund is about the only competitive deck that uses Slaughter Games so that's why I'm only proposing a sideboard plan for that match-up.
While I cannot discredit Craig Wescoe as being a great white weenie player, I feel like straight aggro is not efficient enough right now and we need to be playing more of a tempo game. Wescoe is attempting to go all in with his creatures, either by going over their heads or with first/double strike, and we need more efficient ways to ensure we can get damage through and set them back with cards like Feeling of Dread and Azorious Charm (Albeit Fiend Hunter does fill a similar role).
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Elite Inquisitor
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Knight of Glory
3x Lyev Skyknight
3x Precinct Captain
3x Silverblade Paladin
3x Sublime Archangel
4x War Falcon
3x Azorius Charm
3x Feeling of Dread
Enchantments (2)
2x Spectral Flight
Lands (21)
1x Azorius Guildgate
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
8x Plains
I'm attempting a more tempo version with Feeling of Dread and Azorius Charm. So far tested again Jund and Selesnya Midrange (The top 8 lists from the SCG:Cin) with good results. Zombies should fare well with 4 Knight of Glory and 4 Elite Inquisitor. Considering dropping the charms for 2x Fiend Hunter and the fourth Precinct Captain.
@macrie69 I don't know how you can say Ajani is better than Spectral Flight. Try testing them out and you will see than Spectral impacts the game quicker than Ajani does. This deck should focus on ending the game with Geist and Sublime and Geist has too good of synergy with Spectral.