Mainboard changes: Only change is that I am replace agoraphobias for essence scatter. I love agoraphobia, but against g/r if xenagod somehow hits the board through our counters/detention spheres we are still going to take a hit from an 8/8 stormbreath or fanatic of xenagos. With essence scatter its a main board "blue doom blade". With us running essence scatter main we can make potential helpful changes in the side. (And it can counter Xenagod).
The sideboard changes: I took out 1 Blood Baron, and 1 gainsay for 2 negate. The reason for taking out a blood baron is I believe 4 may be overkill. The reason I took out a gainsay is that we are already favorable against mono-blue and with running negate it is still useful in the mirror and helps us cast Elspeth turn 8 with the capability of countering a hero's downfall with the negate. If they have 2 downfalls that's two less they have to use against Jace or another Elspeth.
Some changes I am thinking of making. I am thinking of removing the dark betrayal for a pithing needle. It helps against a turn 3 domri or potential turn 3 xenagos. It can also stop whip, mutavault, and a maybe a underworld connected swamp.
In the end these changes gives us more answers towards our weakest match-ups while not hurting others.
Just an idea I am throwing out. I am not a hundred percent sure but a lot of u/w control decks like boarding in creatures catching decks with their removal boarded out. I like fated retribution better, but what about angel of serenity?. It can't be mortared, it exiles three creatures and its a threat that can put an opponent on a 3 turn clock.
Against r/g their mizzium mortars are most likely not in the deck game 2. It would exile threats and prove to be a potent blocker against their threats. Fated retribution probably is the better card cause it can hit activated mutavaults and walkers but just an idea I am throwing out there. Nobody would be expecting it and won't be preparing for it.
I like the idea for similar reasons - i.e. removes multiple threats and can pressure life totals and planeswalkers well, but I have only previously tested it as a one-of in the sideboard versus G/R and it never came up during those matches.
I just looked it up and I see the arguments. You tap out for angel and they play another big threat in response. Than they are capable of fighting with domri and get there threats back. It is nice to be able to swing into planeswalkers with it, but it can't handle them quickly enough. I am going to stay with Fated retribution because if I need to counter xenagod I have mana open. Its the same thing with imposing sovereign/blind obedience. They were still able to trample over us. So I am definitely doing pithing needles. It stops a turn 2 domri or a turn 3 xenagos. If they unravel it you could draw it eventually and it leaves space for your detention spheres.
Just an idea I am throwing out. I am not a hundred percent sure but a lot of u/w control decks like boarding in creatures catching decks with their removal boarded out. I like fated retribution better, but what about angel of serenity?. It can't be mortared, it exiles three creatures and its a threat that can put an opponent on a 3 turn clock.
Against r/g their mizzium mortars are most likely not in the deck game 2. It would exile threats and prove to be a potent blocker against their threats. Fated retribution probably is the better card cause it can hit activated mutavaults and walkers but just an idea I am throwing out there. Nobody would be expecting it and won't be preparing for it.
I dislike many of your side-board decisions, thundermonty, too many to quickly mention. Let me know if you want me to go into it.
I've made a few changes to the 75, which has made my deck against GR much better. Adding a Glare of Heresy means I'll be less unprepared if I see an angel in the mirror, and it's an extra means of dealing with Brimaz. The extra Pithing Needle helps deal with the rise in Black Devotion/Orzhov-Midrange and GR. Fated Retribution gives an out against a resolved Obzedat, GR in general, and deals with Mutas and Elspeth and her tokens in the mirror. Still seems like a weak card, but it plugs some weaknesses in the deck rather well. 2nd Elspeth over the Jace, Memory Adept makes my match ups against GR, Black Devotion, Rw Devotion, and Orzhov Midrange significantly better, whilst not making my mirror matches severely weaker. Frankly I feel stupid for taking so long to realise such an obvious change.
I decided that, although Azorius Charm is weak against GR, that I wanted some number of cards that could deal with mutas and beat down creatures, other than Dsphere and Verdict, so I decided to keep two in.
-4 Supreme Verdict (-3 if against Esper, possibly more)
-3 Azorius Charm (-4 if not using Supreme Verdict or Essence Scatter)
-1 Essence Scatter (-0 if against Aetherling)
-2 Last Breath
+2 Last Breath
+1 Celestial Flare
+1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I don't know but I just don't like only running 1 Elspeth. Mono-black will just handle that wayyy to easily. Sideboardwise I want to run pithing needle, but I don't like naming something and finding out that I named the wrong thing (I would most likely name xenagos cause the haste tokens get out of hand let alone his +1). Maybe its just my bad luck but I haven't had much success with needle. Tomorrow this is the sideboard I will be testing.
If anything I might run pithing needles in place of blind obedience. I just wanted to see how it played against it. Also for some reason me quoting you is changing the name of the who's deck it is.....weird.
Sideboard most decks G/R decks wont have much removal for creatures so try Imposing Soverign for the tapped effect and a last effort blocker. G/R is going to start messing with a lot of unravel the aethers so it could be tough. It's not like blind obedience does much else so it wouldn't hurt for it to be a creature? Just a thought.
Yeah, imposing sovereign is REALLY great actually. Even if they use domri to fight, he is father away from ultimate and they are not generating card advantage. I like it and will make the change.
I dislike many of your side-board decisions, thundermonty, too many to quickly mention. Let me know if you want me to go into it.
I've made a few changes to the 75, which has made my deck against GR much better. Adding a Glare of Heresy means I'll be less unprepared if I see an angel in the mirror, and it's an extra means of dealing with Brimaz. The extra Pithing Needle helps deal with the rise in Black Devotion/Orzhov-Midrange and GR. Fated Retribution gives an out against a resolved Obzedat, GR in general, and deals with Mutas and Elspeth and her tokens in the mirror. Still seems like a weak card, but it plugs some weaknesses in the deck rather well. 2nd Elspeth over the Jace, Memory Adept makes my match ups against GR, Black Devotion, Rw Devotion, and Orzhov Midrange significantly better, whilst not making my mirror matches severely weaker. Frankly I feel stupid for taking so long to realise such an obvious change.
I decided that, although Azorius Charm is weak against GR, that I wanted some number of cards that could deal with mutas and beat down creatures, other than Dsphere and Verdict, so I decided to keep two in.
-4 Supreme Verdict (-3 if against Esper, possibly more)
-3 Azorius Charm (-4 if not using Supreme Verdict or Essence Scatter)
-1 Essence Scatter (-0 if against Aetherling)
-2 Last Breath
+2 Last Breath
+1 Celestial Flare
+1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I don't know but I just don't like only running 1 Elspeth. Mono-black will just handle that wayyy to easily. Sideboardwise I want to run pithing needle, but I don't like naming something and finding out that I named the wrong thing (I would most likely name xenagos cause the haste tokens get out of hand let alone his +1). Maybe its just my bad luck but I haven't had much success with needle. Tomorrow this is the sideboard I will be testing.
If anything I might run pithing needles in place of blind obedience. I just wanted to see how it played against it. Also for some reason me quoting you is changing the name of the who's deck it is.....weird.
Lets keep in mind that we need to look at every matchup when putting something in our sideboard. R/G is an issue for us and lately its been becoming more popular, but at the Sunday super series not a single G/R deck made the top 8. I think we need to focus mainly on the Mono Black and BW control/Midrange matchup.
In my build, after more testing tonight, I think I will be sideboarding 2 blind obedience. It shuts down G/R's post board mistcutters and stops stormbreath and xenagod's "allies". Let alone the extort could help you stay alive longer or lower their life total enough to where you can kill them right before you can. It also stops any other haste creature that mono-red or r/w run....and obzedat if need be.
My problem with this is it doesn't stop the creatures getting fat from Xenagod, nor does it actually deal with any of the creatures that come in. It buys some life and time, to hopefully draw a card that actually deals with the situation. Does not seem like what I want, but I'd like to be swayed to think otherwise.
It isn't the top notch choice ofcourse but u/w is extremely crippled with G/R. I find it helpful because you know they are boarding in 2-4 mistcutters and if you have an azo charm in hand it sucks.
Against G/R it stops stormbreath dragon/ fanatic of xenagos/mistcutter hydra/ even the tokens xenagos the planeswalker creates. It buys us time(like agoraphobia on a haste creature) to get answers pre-verdict, and also gets us to fated retribution. My argument is that it is a good card that will help us against our worse matchup AND it has more value than that. It just stops all haste creatures and creatures like Obzedat (makes whip useless)
In the end I plan on testing it out more with Blind obedience.
Lets keep in mind that we need to look at every matchup when putting something in our sideboard. R/G is an issue for us and lately its been becoming more popular, but at the Sunday super series not a single G/R deck made the top 8. I think we need to focus mainly on the Mono Black and BW control/Midrange matchup.
In my build, after more testing tonight, I think I will be sideboarding 2 blind obedience. It shuts down G/R's post board mistcutters and stops stormbreath and xenagod's "allies". Let alone the extort could help you stay alive longer or lower their life total enough to where you can kill them right before you can. It also stops any other haste creature that mono-red or r/w run....and obzedat if need be.
Why is Agoraphobia better than Celestial Flare? Don't they both serve the same function, but Celestial Flare can also deal with Mistcutter Hydra?
Agoraphobia I found better than Celestial Flare. If you are trying to remove their stormbreath they can swing with the dragon and a mana dork and sac the mana dork. You lost the card that you boarded in to stop the dragon AND the dragon is still there. The fact is if they swing with two creatures you are not removing the card you want to remove where as agoraphobia makes Blood Baron/Stormbreath Dragon/Polukranos heck even desecration demon useless. Also with agoraphobia's ability you can verdict and save agoraphobia for a future threat. Most of the time I would wipe the board with a blood baron on the field and the next card they would draw or have in hand would be another blood baron. In the end it works great, and unlike detention sphere if played correctly your opponent can't remove it.
Hypothetically, Agoraphobia is great. But in a game situation, it's not very useful. I would never board it in against anything other than GR; it just doesn't do enough in other matchups. Even against GR, it's bad when we're ahead and mediocre when we're behind. Not removing the creature entirely is a huge problem.
One of my matches I ran against a u/w ephara human aggro. Agoraphobia allowed his skynights to be walls while my Elspeth tokens held off his soldiers on the ground long enough to gain life back with sphinx's rev and cracking Elspeth ftw. The creature doesn't have to have 5 power to be effective. Holding off any threat to keep you alive longer is great.
Why is Agoraphobia better than Celestial Flare? Don't they both serve the same function, but Celestial Flare can also deal with Mistcutter Hydra?
Agoraphobia I found better than Celestial Flare. If you are trying to remove their stormbreath they can swing with the dragon and a mana dork and sac the mana dork. You lost the card that you boarded in to stop the dragon AND the dragon is still there. The fact is if they swing with two creatures you are not removing the card you want to remove where as agoraphobia makes Blood Baron/Stormbreath Dragon/Polukranos heck even desecration demon useless. Also with agoraphobia's ability you can verdict and save agoraphobia for a future threat. Most of the time I would wipe the board with a blood baron on the field and the next card they would draw or have in hand would be another blood baron. In the end it works great, and unlike detention sphere if played correctly your opponent can't remove it.
Thank you Thundermonty for the advice and giving credit where it is due. Agoraphobia saved my butt several times tonight.
As for the changes:
Mainboard: I would take out an island for a temple of deceit giving us 8 black sources to insure we get our mana we need for our sideboard.
Sideboard: I would take the 3 archangels out for 3 blood barons. Each time I would want to bring the archangels in they are most likely going to be removed. Blood baron has protection so it is great especially against mono black since most likely they board out devour flesh.
Otherwise I went 7-1-1 in 4 rounds totaling a 4-0 record.
I can only assume that if its real, its from a set like planechase or something along the lines like that. Maybe the MTG Council or something who knows but I am interested in seeing what that is.
The thing that irritates me more is that Phenax is a u/b god that is spell oriented and once again it needs creatures to be effective. Like in the rtr block Cipher needed to be put on a creature. Why?
The "evacuation" card is pretty good. I actually love Phenax. BUG mill could be a thing. I don't know about top tier but could win a couple of fnm's. Consuming Aberation, this guy, ashiok, kiora, sylvan caryatid, mind grind all could be in the deck.
At the beginning of your opponent's upkeep they exile/mill the top card of their library. Than an effect will happen depending on the cost of the card. It could be -x-x which wouldn't be bad however if it was life loss...this god would be legit.
better suited to view EDH banlist convo. In multiplayer, Iona is not a immediate threat. I see a turn 2/3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur more problematic.
Dead-eye -- not an issue. When used with other game breaking 4-for-1 creatures, yes. Some are saying Sylvan Primordial is up for questioning as it has more attention than the banned Primeval Titan and more complaints.
When you have to beg one of the players in a multiplayer game to get rid of something so you can play is bad. Iona fits that description. Sylvan Primordial could see banned cause it is great and one of the most abused cards in edh. Dead-eye itself is insane and can combine with other crazy things like eternal witness, mystic snake etc. I don't know if he will be banned or not but could be in question. Jin gitaxias is another card I completely forgot existed and does pose a problem beginning or end of game.
I have a bant edh and once I get dead-eye navigator out(especially at the end of an opponents turn) I untap and its near impossible to deal with. It almost can not be removed except for mass removal but by then you just trigger his ability 3,4, heck 8 times in one turn. The capability of flickering a terastodon in respone to a board wipe 8 times is near game. I destroy 24 lands and your tokens will die. Dead-eye by himself isn't terrible, but it can create near un-fun situations.
Also I apologize for conversating about edh ban list in this thread. I assumed(I can't remember) if they do the bannings all at once or what.
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4 azorius charm
4 supreme verdict
2 last breath
2 essence scatter
3 syncopate
4 dissolve
4 sphinx's revelation
Walkers and Wincons:
3 Elspeth, sun's champion
3 Jace, Architect of thought
1 Aetherling
4 detention sphere
Lands:
4 hallowed fountain
3 temple of enlightenment
4 temple of deceit
4 temple of silence
2 mutavault
5 island
4 plains
2 gainsay
3 blood baron of vizkopa
2 revoke existence
2 fated retribution
3 doom blade
1 dark betrayal
2 negate
Mainboard changes: Only change is that I am replace agoraphobias for essence scatter. I love agoraphobia, but against g/r if xenagod somehow hits the board through our counters/detention spheres we are still going to take a hit from an 8/8 stormbreath or fanatic of xenagos. With essence scatter its a main board "blue doom blade". With us running essence scatter main we can make potential helpful changes in the side. (And it can counter Xenagod).
The sideboard changes: I took out 1 Blood Baron, and 1 gainsay for 2 negate. The reason for taking out a blood baron is I believe 4 may be overkill. The reason I took out a gainsay is that we are already favorable against mono-blue and with running negate it is still useful in the mirror and helps us cast Elspeth turn 8 with the capability of countering a hero's downfall with the negate. If they have 2 downfalls that's two less they have to use against Jace or another Elspeth.
Some changes I am thinking of making. I am thinking of removing the dark betrayal for a pithing needle. It helps against a turn 3 domri or potential turn 3 xenagos. It can also stop whip, mutavault, and a maybe a underworld connected swamp.
In the end these changes gives us more answers towards our weakest match-ups while not hurting others.
I just looked it up and I see the arguments. You tap out for angel and they play another big threat in response. Than they are capable of fighting with domri and get there threats back. It is nice to be able to swing into planeswalkers with it, but it can't handle them quickly enough. I am going to stay with Fated retribution because if I need to counter xenagod I have mana open. Its the same thing with imposing sovereign/blind obedience. They were still able to trample over us. So I am definitely doing pithing needles. It stops a turn 2 domri or a turn 3 xenagos. If they unravel it you could draw it eventually and it leaves space for your detention spheres.
Against r/g their mizzium mortars are most likely not in the deck game 2. It would exile threats and prove to be a potent blocker against their threats. Fated retribution probably is the better card cause it can hit activated mutavaults and walkers but just an idea I am throwing out there. Nobody would be expecting it and won't be preparing for it.
Yeah, imposing sovereign is REALLY great actually. Even if they use domri to fight, he is father away from ultimate and they are not generating card advantage. I like it and will make the change.
I don't know but I just don't like only running 1 Elspeth. Mono-black will just handle that wayyy to easily. Sideboardwise I want to run pithing needle, but I don't like naming something and finding out that I named the wrong thing (I would most likely name xenagos cause the haste tokens get out of hand let alone his +1). Maybe its just my bad luck but I haven't had much success with needle. Tomorrow this is the sideboard I will be testing.
3 blood baron of vizkopa
1 dark betrayal
3 doom blade
1 fated retribution
2 revoke existence
2 blind obedience
If anything I might run pithing needles in place of blind obedience. I just wanted to see how it played against it. Also for some reason me quoting you is changing the name of the who's deck it is.....weird.
It isn't the top notch choice ofcourse but u/w is extremely crippled with G/R. I find it helpful because you know they are boarding in 2-4 mistcutters and if you have an azo charm in hand it sucks.
Against G/R it stops stormbreath dragon/ fanatic of xenagos/mistcutter hydra/ even the tokens xenagos the planeswalker creates. It buys us time(like agoraphobia on a haste creature) to get answers pre-verdict, and also gets us to fated retribution. My argument is that it is a good card that will help us against our worse matchup AND it has more value than that. It just stops all haste creatures and creatures like Obzedat (makes whip useless)
In the end I plan on testing it out more with Blind obedience.
In my build, after more testing tonight, I think I will be sideboarding 2 blind obedience. It shuts down G/R's post board mistcutters and stops stormbreath and xenagod's "allies". Let alone the extort could help you stay alive longer or lower their life total enough to where you can kill them right before you can. It also stops any other haste creature that mono-red or r/w run....and obzedat if need be.
One of my matches I ran against a u/w ephara human aggro. Agoraphobia allowed his skynights to be walls while my Elspeth tokens held off his soldiers on the ground long enough to gain life back with sphinx's rev and cracking Elspeth ftw. The creature doesn't have to have 5 power to be effective. Holding off any threat to keep you alive longer is great.
Agoraphobia I found better than Celestial Flare. If you are trying to remove their stormbreath they can swing with the dragon and a mana dork and sac the mana dork. You lost the card that you boarded in to stop the dragon AND the dragon is still there. The fact is if they swing with two creatures you are not removing the card you want to remove where as agoraphobia makes Blood Baron/Stormbreath Dragon/Polukranos heck even desecration demon useless. Also with agoraphobia's ability you can verdict and save agoraphobia for a future threat. Most of the time I would wipe the board with a blood baron on the field and the next card they would draw or have in hand would be another blood baron. In the end it works great, and unlike detention sphere if played correctly your opponent can't remove it.
Removal:
4 supreme verdict
4 azorius charm
4 dissolve
3 syncopate
4 detention sphere
2 agoraphobia
2 last breath
Wincons:
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Aetherling
4 Sphinx's revelation
1 elixir of immortality
Lands:
2 mutavault
4 hallowed fountain
4 temple of silence
3 temple of deceit
3 temple of enlightenment
5 plains
5 island
2 doom blade
2 dark betrayal
3 gainsay
2 revoke existence
3 archangel of thune
1 blood baron of vizkopa
2 fated retribution
Thank you Thundermonty for the advice and giving credit where it is due. Agoraphobia saved my butt several times tonight.
As for the changes:
Mainboard: I would take out an island for a temple of deceit giving us 8 black sources to insure we get our mana we need for our sideboard.
Sideboard: I would take the 3 archangels out for 3 blood barons. Each time I would want to bring the archangels in they are most likely going to be removed. Blood baron has protection so it is great especially against mono black since most likely they board out devour flesh.
Otherwise I went 7-1-1 in 4 rounds totaling a 4-0 record.
If its fake oh well. No harm done really.
At the beginning of your opponent's upkeep they exile/mill the top card of their library. Than an effect will happen depending on the cost of the card. It could be -x-x which wouldn't be bad however if it was life loss...this god would be legit.
We will just have to wait and see.
When you have to beg one of the players in a multiplayer game to get rid of something so you can play is bad. Iona fits that description. Sylvan Primordial could see banned cause it is great and one of the most abused cards in edh. Dead-eye itself is insane and can combine with other crazy things like eternal witness, mystic snake etc. I don't know if he will be banned or not but could be in question. Jin gitaxias is another card I completely forgot existed and does pose a problem beginning or end of game.
I have a bant edh and once I get dead-eye navigator out(especially at the end of an opponents turn) I untap and its near impossible to deal with. It almost can not be removed except for mass removal but by then you just trigger his ability 3,4, heck 8 times in one turn. The capability of flickering a terastodon in respone to a board wipe 8 times is near game. I destroy 24 lands and your tokens will die. Dead-eye by himself isn't terrible, but it can create near un-fun situations.
Also I apologize for conversating about edh ban list in this thread. I assumed(I can't remember) if they do the bannings all at once or what.