New Chandra is extremely strong, but it's not the same as mind sculptor. People will use it as if it was one, but it's not really the same.
Honestly unsure if it's better in jeskai than nahiri and Emmy. I think it's good for jund as the 4 drop, it's certainly better than pyromaster and people were playing that one.
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If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
3. 4-mana, shmana. Cryptic Command is a 4-mana card, very clumsy to cast in anything but mono-blue, and it's still a house. Why? Because it provides answers to many problems on one card.
Cryptic command is never a one for one. It always at least replaces itself. That doesn't even bring in the fact that it's just a more versatile card. It's such a strange and absurd comparison for you to make.
It may be alright at times in modern, but its very difficult for me to imagine justifying it for a lot of decks. Plus its in a weird color combination which isn't popular or very strong in modern right now.
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Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Fae isn't tier 2. I have been playing with a tweak on Pat Chapin's list from a few weeks ago and it is a house. More like tier 1.5, potentially tier 1.
There were a number of lists over the last few months too that took down PTQ's and placed well at GP's, this is not the signs of a tier 2 deck.
It is not commonly played and does not have a bunch of top finishes. The data definitely says its tier 2. You may disagree with the data, but that doesn't make you right.
However, bocephus seems to be not putting his cash in the pot here, I would suggest either share a winning list (which people can look at to help improve - that is the point of these discussions after all, I know I would love to see a sweet control brew) or stop flogging the dead horse.
Banning snapcaster would be fine, all the decks that play it would likely find another path to obtain card advantage, don't think it is worth banning though.
Expecting Bocephus to backup his claims has always been an optimistic endeavor.
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Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
There is this belief in Modern circles that the format is still format incognito, and that things like Baby Jace are just waiting to be broken open. That is mostly a myth. It's perpetuated by people who are either dissatisfied with the current metagame, nostalgic about old cards, bitter that their strategies aren't viable, and/or unrealistically committed to brewing. Yes, there is room for innovation (see Keranos, see RUG Twin evolving out of UR Twin, see BG Rock and BGw Souls evolving out of Jund). But a lot of cards have been tried and found wanting. Similarly, a lot of cards are just irreplaceable in the current Modern metagame, and their removal would be crippling for decks that use them. Snapcaster is one such card. Trying to replace Snapcaster with Baby Jace would be like trying to replace Abrupt Decay with Sultai Charm. All those cards are good, but those in the first category are irreplaceable staples that cannot be supplanted by those in the second.
I completely agree. There's now lots of modern tournaments, its a popular format. There are a lot of people playing it. Many, many cards have been tried and have been found wanting. Jace Beleren isn't that strong, and he doesn't even serve the same function as snappy. Control decks can and have existed before snapcaster mage no one is arguing that, but those decks had access to tools that aren't in modern. Even non blue control has been tried quite a bit (something posters keep asserting no one is trying) and its been found wanting. Considering Snappy isn't oppressive, and there are a few top decks in the format that don't even play blue, I don't know why he's even being discussed.
You can play control and be successful in modern, there's even a decent amount of different types to choose from, but its hard to argue that its as powerful as combo or midrange in the format. It's arguable that even the most successful aggro decks have more top finishes than the most successful control decks.
It's a struggling archetype, but its unlikely we will see wizards providing help any time soon. I don't believe the current design philosophy in regards to control in standard allows for much that will help control in modern. I really think they bungled up Sultai Ascendancy for what it's worth. If it had the option to pay life for cards ala Sylvan Library, I think it'd open bug control to be a strong deck, but as of now blech.
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If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
I consider paying 2U for it to be overpaying. U-1U or bust.
Remand has been rough against my Empty the Pits deck (although I can and do Inquisition of Kozilek it out of their hand), so yeah, Treasure Cruise isn't as good against Remand decks. But oh golly gee is it better than Sphinx's Revelation against Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, and IoK decks.
Considering 2U gets you Divination, Its still good value. When I play Vintage people are plenty happy to Merchant Scroll for Ancestral Recall this is better than that...
Obviously not quite the same, but spending 2U to draw 3 cards is good value.
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If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
To properly evaluate Treasure cruise you need to look at basically when you are still getting value off of it.
If you ever cast it at 2U or less, its really strong value. Actually insanely so. It's definitely worth testing. Not playing it because of remand or because its "win more" seems horribly short sighted.
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If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
When you run mono color I can be worth it to scry and fetch, as your land base is extremely solid. We might see mono color decks acting like two color decks just to throw people off, or for the deck thinning/shuffling effect.
The math has been done over and over again. Fetchlands in mono colored decks are not worth it if you are running them for "thinning." It takes a long time for the effect to be worth it and its honestly not worth the loss of life.
Fetchlands can be worth it in mono colored decks for the shuffle effect, or even for filling the graveyard. Deck thinning, while technically a thing, is not worth running fetchlands alone.
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Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Empty the pits isn't good. It's overcosted for such a small effect. It won't see play, there are better cards that do the same thing. Who cares if they are in another color? What control deck that wants this effect isn't going to be able to splash white anyway? Other colored control decks have BETTER things to be doing.
EDIT: I guess the only way this sees play if its like the modern day psychatog? That seems like the only way it would work is if it was in like a modern day 'tog deck? I don't think such a thing works in modern.
Mantis Rider is worse than Lightning Angel angel barely sees play and it's a better card. Bolt is too format warping. It's either going to compete with Geist or Lightning Angel and it looses to both.
Savage Knuckleblade might see play if there's a deck it fits in. It's a cool and powerful card. However there's no deck it fits in now that I can think of. Maybe a RUG delver? Still seems kinda eh there.
Sultai Ascendancy would have been awesome if it was modern's Sylvan Library they could have added the ability to pay 4 life and get a card in your hand. I think BUG in modern wants to be a control deck instead of a midrange and something like that could have helped out a lot. As it is now, its likely not worth it.
Whenever I look at mindswipe I think, wow undermine is a million times better! People are going to try to use this, and I will be unsurprised when it turns out to not be worth it. Or certainly not worth more than a 1 of.
I'm a bit curious if Fact or Fiction is too strong for Modern. It seems a lot like a Gifts Ungiven type of effect in that you get some amount of cards in the graveyard, and some card advantage as well. Both are 4-cost blue instants, and FoF gives you 5 cards instead of 4, while Gifts lets you tutor for the cards instead, and lets you dump Rites + Fat in your graveyard to reanimate.
Seems like the biggest knock against it is that Wizards thinks blue is too strong, but I feel like it might give control a bit of a boost, in particular a boost that's not universal to U/R/x. If nothing else, it is a great skill-testing card that's hard to play against, which is nice.
(Edit: I did a search of this thread, but I only got one result, from 2012... If this has been debated to death and my search-fu was super weak today, I do apologize...)
I want Fact Or Fiction in the format because I think you can make some really cool and fun plays with the card. Its interesting to interact with and can give you a huge burst of momentum that can help you finish. I can see a UW deck with Spirit of the Labyrinth using it for hilarious effect.
I also think in many ways Jace Architect of Thought is stronger than FoF. I doubt WOTC agrees with me, or would ever take my opinion into consideration, but what can you do?
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Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Sidisi is a really cool, potentially very flavorful card. How she helps with Delve and flashback she had SOME potential. But she is too weak to consider playing competitively. Not giving a zombie for each creature you mill is a big downside.
She may be ok in standard since removal is so scaled back. But the removal is too strong in Modern to seriously consider using her.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Honestly unsure if it's better in jeskai than nahiri and Emmy. I think it's good for jund as the 4 drop, it's certainly better than pyromaster and people were playing that one.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I can't fathom how strong this card it. It's certainly strong, but its hard to immediately recognize the potential this soon.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I guess modern is pretty solid then.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Cryptic command is never a one for one. It always at least replaces itself. That doesn't even bring in the fact that it's just a more versatile card. It's such a strange and absurd comparison for you to make.
It may be alright at times in modern, but its very difficult for me to imagine justifying it for a lot of decks. Plus its in a weird color combination which isn't popular or very strong in modern right now.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
It is not commonly played and does not have a bunch of top finishes. The data definitely says its tier 2. You may disagree with the data, but that doesn't make you right.
Expecting Bocephus to backup his claims has always been an optimistic endeavor.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I completely agree. There's now lots of modern tournaments, its a popular format. There are a lot of people playing it. Many, many cards have been tried and have been found wanting. Jace Beleren isn't that strong, and he doesn't even serve the same function as snappy. Control decks can and have existed before snapcaster mage no one is arguing that, but those decks had access to tools that aren't in modern. Even non blue control has been tried quite a bit (something posters keep asserting no one is trying) and its been found wanting. Considering Snappy isn't oppressive, and there are a few top decks in the format that don't even play blue, I don't know why he's even being discussed.
You can play control and be successful in modern, there's even a decent amount of different types to choose from, but its hard to argue that its as powerful as combo or midrange in the format. It's arguable that even the most successful aggro decks have more top finishes than the most successful control decks.
It's a struggling archetype, but its unlikely we will see wizards providing help any time soon. I don't believe the current design philosophy in regards to control in standard allows for much that will help control in modern. I really think they bungled up Sultai Ascendancy for what it's worth. If it had the option to pay life for cards ala Sylvan Library, I think it'd open bug control to be a strong deck, but as of now blech.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
It's always going to be a 1 for 1 at 4 mana, at it's absolute best. I'm skeptical it sees much, if any competitive play.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Considering 2U gets you Divination, Its still good value. When I play Vintage people are plenty happy to Merchant Scroll for Ancestral Recall this is better than that...
Obviously not quite the same, but spending 2U to draw 3 cards is good value.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
If you ever cast it at 2U or less, its really strong value. Actually insanely so. It's definitely worth testing. Not playing it because of remand or because its "win more" seems horribly short sighted.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
The math has been done over and over again. Fetchlands in mono colored decks are not worth it if you are running them for "thinning." It takes a long time for the effect to be worth it and its honestly not worth the loss of life.
Fetchlands can be worth it in mono colored decks for the shuffle effect, or even for filling the graveyard. Deck thinning, while technically a thing, is not worth running fetchlands alone.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
EDIT: I guess the only way this sees play if its like the modern day psychatog? That seems like the only way it would work is if it was in like a modern day 'tog deck? I don't think such a thing works in modern.
Mantis Rider is worse than Lightning Angel angel barely sees play and it's a better card. Bolt is too format warping. It's either going to compete with Geist or Lightning Angel and it looses to both.
Savage Knuckleblade might see play if there's a deck it fits in. It's a cool and powerful card. However there's no deck it fits in now that I can think of. Maybe a RUG delver? Still seems kinda eh there.
Sultai Ascendancy would have been awesome if it was modern's Sylvan Library they could have added the ability to pay 4 life and get a card in your hand. I think BUG in modern wants to be a control deck instead of a midrange and something like that could have helped out a lot. As it is now, its likely not worth it.
Whenever I look at mindswipe I think, wow undermine is a million times better! People are going to try to use this, and I will be unsurprised when it turns out to not be worth it. Or certainly not worth more than a 1 of.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I want Fact Or Fiction in the format because I think you can make some really cool and fun plays with the card. Its interesting to interact with and can give you a huge burst of momentum that can help you finish. I can see a UW deck with Spirit of the Labyrinth using it for hilarious effect.
I also think in many ways Jace Architect of Thought is stronger than FoF. I doubt WOTC agrees with me, or would ever take my opinion into consideration, but what can you do?
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
She may be ok in standard since removal is so scaled back. But the removal is too strong in Modern to seriously consider using her.
Edit: A word
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash