Having recently come back to EDH after a few years Yahenni instantly stood out to me, both lore wise and for the sheer efficiency of the card.
You mention Kormus Bell, and I apologize if it has been brought up before but have you considered Massacre Wurm to compliment your Bell and general theme of removing opponents creatures?
Another favorite addition of mine is the particularly obscure Tombstone Stairwell, which all by itself turbo accelerates your Yahenni engine or other cards that care about creatures dying.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
I do not care much for Stroke MB, although I do see the value of it in the 75 to diversify your counter suit post board. If I were to go up on counters, I'd max out on Dissolve first and then add additional Nullify in some number.
If I were to go the reactive route I'd probably do something along the lines of this;
Keep in mind the above is a rough draft. Personally I would prefer being more proactive the first few weeks until the meta settles but to each their own I guess.
Esper having a better mana base is debatable, especially when comparing it to a 2 color one. Rather, the allure to these splashes are the cards they enable. Playing upwards to 8 fetches is hardly free, doubly so in light of how prominent Aggro is predicted to be in the coming weeks.
2 color mana bases can open up options that simply aren't available or viable to 3 color ones, regardless of higher raw power levels. These 3 color lists will trip and stumble, maybe not consistently, maybe very little, but it will happen, and faster more streamlined decks will be there to punish them for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
My problem with Grixis at its core this time around has changed little from last season. The Alara Shards have access to more Fetchlands than the Khan Clans, which is very interesting insofar stuff such as Delce is concerned. Honestly I would have preferred trading a set of Bloodstained Mire for Grixis Trilands but we have to make do with the tools we're given I guess.
No my concern is the practicality of our tools this time round. What's the argument for pushing Grixis competitively other than bias towards these colors? What exactly does this color offer that can not better be found in say the latest winning Esper list from the Magic league Trial? We still have less ways to interact with non creature permanents, same as last season. Elspeth is still a better finisher than anything we have in these colors, hell, Sagu Mauler is getting plenty of attention with the looming Sultai mirrors around the corner.
My blood runs UBR as much as the lot of you but simply liking a color is not going to be enough this time round.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
That's said I do find fault with your land configuration, but that's more a case of having played through Shards so I tend to value Opulant Pallace more than most.
I'll throw my weight behind Ulcerate, simply on principle that come week zero people are going to die more to their greedy mama bases and spell configurations and the Aggro decks that will naturally prey on said lists. What's the point of having all these sweet spells if you can't even cast them in a timely matter. This is not Block, Courser is not this brick wall people seem to be thinking it is, your Caryatids are going to be run over and Courser has never been more vulnerable. Is Ulcerate the solution? Perhaps, perhaps not, but not seeing the value in playing Courser into a less congested board state in an as efficient way as possible is mildly homurous.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
Keep in mind though that the Esper deck is way more equipped to deal with Non Creature Permanents and having a Sweeper available drastically changes how the deck runs. Still interesting to dissect though.
Simply put, Divination just isn't a very good magic card and not one i'd be interested to cast on curve over holding up removal or counter magic. Now arguably one could lean on Divination to hit your land drops but i'd rather just play more land as a lot of lists have been skimping in this regard. We don't have a turn 4 Verdict to have as a crutch anymore, you absolutely need to interact during turns 1-4 and Font of Fortunes/Divination are very poor ways to go about doing that.
Jace's Ingenuity is more a step in the right direction but still competes for critical removal/threat slots. I absolutely want Dig Through Time as a 2 of before I even considder any other draw options but at that point I'd be hurting a range of MU's by including more clunky draw spells. It is very likely that Jace is as garbage as he seems,cwhich could just open up slots for those Ingenuity's but until I actually get more relevant game time in there's little point in drawing up speculative lists with little or no backing to them.
TLDR
Remove Jace for more draw, shave some of the numbers and work in some Ingenuity's if you want to test it out and report back to us, it's critical that we get the mix right if this arcetype is to be competitive. I could very easily draw up a list with 4 Ingenuity's/4 Weave Fate's and a couple of Dig through Time's and have more CA than any deck in the format. I'm sure I'd feel pretty proud of myself despite dying regularly with a bunch of draw spells in hand.
But hey, at least CA right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
The Masters are more a concession to the Rabble Red MU than anything else, but if Rabblemaster.dek turns out less popular than I predicted then I'll be looking very silly come Week Zero. If I were to remove them I'd test something like this;
It's quite possible that I want to cut down on a single Prognostic in leu of a Liliana Vess to act as a tutor engine for Empty the Pits/Spouts/Drown and as a sometimes second/3rd wincon but I'ld have to test a bit more before I know for sure.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
I would value Tormented Hero more than Ruthless Ripper tbh. You are essentially giving up the advantage of playing up to 12 2 power one drops (a feat may i remind you that does not come around often and is primarily responsible for potentially catapulting MBA to tier 1 status) to play Typhoid Rats, and that is not exactly a card I would be excited about. Pushing through 2 damage by being cute and unmorphing ripper, tempo loss aside from playing a 3cmc 2/2 in the first place is just straight up worse to playing than playing the actual 2 power creature.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
Im interested in the move away from Vault, I would of thought it would be better than Extinguish in the 75, as it is both faster online and sidesteps the enchantment clause. Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
My bad, seems I missed a land there. I felt most comfortable with 26 but then I'm more land heavy than most. The 26th land slot I'm toying with atm so feel free to test as you see fit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
^Then your perception of what a "Control" deck should and should not be has been skewed by RTR, control is a lot more intricate and demanding than simply relying on Revelation and Verdict to cover up any mistakes you might make along the way.
Being able to reliably cast Cure and Blight is a distinct advantage in the aggro match ups where early game interaction is so vital. My primary focus is hedging against the Aggressive Rabble deck and the Controlling Courser ones. Temur Midrange is tricky but they are more susceptible to early interaction than conventional monster lists since most lists forgo Caryatid/Courser completely for a more aggressive curve of Rattleclaw/Rabblemaster. Primary testing is against RGx Midrange variants and the evolved BUG Control lists from the Block Pro Tour and on the other end of the spectrum the Rabblemaster/Mono Black Aggro, as I believe these are the primary things we will be seeing early into the new format.
Aetherspouts would pretty much always get my vote. If the format devolved into such a state that you would need Whelming Wave as a crutch...then I would rethink my choice of deck tbh.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You mention Kormus Bell, and I apologize if it has been brought up before but have you considered Massacre Wurm to compliment your Bell and general theme of removing opponents creatures?
Another favorite addition of mine is the particularly obscure Tombstone Stairwell, which all by itself turbo accelerates your Yahenni engine or other cards that care about creatures dying.
If I were to go the reactive route I'd probably do something along the lines of this;
2 Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Liliana Vess
Spells (27)
3 Murderous Cut
3 Bile Blight
4 Dissolve
3 Aetherspouts
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Nullify
2 Dig Through Time
1 Empty the Pits
2 Silence the Believers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 Island
6 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Dismal Backwater
Keep in mind the above is a rough draft. Personally I would prefer being more proactive the first few weeks until the meta settles but to each their own I guess.
2 color mana bases can open up options that simply aren't available or viable to 3 color ones, regardless of higher raw power levels. These 3 color lists will trip and stumble, maybe not consistently, maybe very little, but it will happen, and faster more streamlined decks will be there to punish them for it.
No my concern is the practicality of our tools this time round. What's the argument for pushing Grixis competitively other than bias towards these colors? What exactly does this color offer that can not better be found in say the latest winning Esper list from the Magic league Trial? We still have less ways to interact with non creature permanents, same as last season. Elspeth is still a better finisher than anything we have in these colors, hell, Sagu Mauler is getting plenty of attention with the looming Sultai mirrors around the corner.
My blood runs UBR as much as the lot of you but simply liking a color is not going to be enough this time round.
I'll throw my weight behind Ulcerate, simply on principle that come week zero people are going to die more to their greedy mama bases and spell configurations and the Aggro decks that will naturally prey on said lists. What's the point of having all these sweet spells if you can't even cast them in a timely matter. This is not Block, Courser is not this brick wall people seem to be thinking it is, your Caryatids are going to be run over and Courser has never been more vulnerable. Is Ulcerate the solution? Perhaps, perhaps not, but not seeing the value in playing Courser into a less congested board state in an as efficient way as possible is mildly homurous.
2 Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Spells (27)
3 Banishing Light
2 Bile Blight
4 Dissolve
3 End Hostilities
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Nullify
3 Sign in Blood
2 Utter End
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceit
3 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Temple of Silence
Keep in mind though that the Esper deck is way more equipped to deal with Non Creature Permanents and having a Sweeper available drastically changes how the deck runs. Still interesting to dissect though.
Jace's Ingenuity is more a step in the right direction but still competes for critical removal/threat slots. I absolutely want Dig Through Time as a 2 of before I even considder any other draw options but at that point I'd be hurting a range of MU's by including more clunky draw spells. It is very likely that Jace is as garbage as he seems,cwhich could just open up slots for those Ingenuity's but until I actually get more relevant game time in there's little point in drawing up speculative lists with little or no backing to them.
TLDR
Remove Jace for more draw, shave some of the numbers and work in some Ingenuity's if you want to test it out and report back to us, it's critical that we get the mix right if this arcetype is to be competitive. I could very easily draw up a list with 4 Ingenuity's/4 Weave Fate's and a couple of Dig through Time's and have more CA than any deck in the format. I'm sure I'd feel pretty proud of myself despite dying regularly with a bunch of draw spells in hand.
But hey, at least CA right?
- 3 Master of Waves
- 1 Clever Impersonator
+ 1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
+ 2 Drown in Sorrow
+ 1 Hero's Downfall
It's quite possible that I want to cut down on a single Prognostic in leu of a Liliana Vess to act as a tutor engine for Empty the Pits/Spouts/Drown and as a sometimes second/3rd wincon but I'ld have to test a bit more before I know for sure.
This is where I'm at atm:
3 Master of Waves
3 Prognostic Sphinx
1 Clever Impersonator
Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Instants
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Bile Blight
3 Murderous Cut
3 Ulcerate
3 Dissolve
3 Ætherspouts
1 Empty the Pits
2 Dig Through Time
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Polluted Delta
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 Island
5 Swamp
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Pharika's Cure
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Silence the Believers
Being able to reliably cast Cure and Blight is a distinct advantage in the aggro match ups where early game interaction is so vital. My primary focus is hedging against the Aggressive Rabble deck and the Controlling Courser ones. Temur Midrange is tricky but they are more susceptible to early interaction than conventional monster lists since most lists forgo Caryatid/Courser completely for a more aggressive curve of Rattleclaw/Rabblemaster. Primary testing is against RGx Midrange variants and the evolved BUG Control lists from the Block Pro Tour and on the other end of the spectrum the Rabblemaster/Mono Black Aggro, as I believe these are the primary things we will be seeing early into the new format.