Sweet; nice collection. I have them all as well, with the addition of original foil version of every one that has been printed in foil up through Theros. I need to pick up the handful since that I have missed; they were all terribly overpriced prior to and at launch, so I skipped most of them aside from an occasional cheap pick up in the interim.
I just made an incredibly janky deck that I need to finish pimping; Japanese (or German) Telim'Tor's Darts are not that easy to find.
I built a mono blue Stax deck last year and played it for a bit. I love Stax, so it was fun, but definitely a bit of a challenge due to the limited card choices. I alternated between Thada Adel and Barrin, Master Wizard as my Commander for the deck. Ultimately, I preferred Barrin by a slim margin, but both were solid. And as someone else mentioned, Invoke Prejudice is THE reason to play mono blue.
About 3 months ago, I just had no inspiration at all; I couldn't find a General I wanted to build around, or any cards I wanted to play period, so I just put the cards aside and didn't touch them for weeks. About 2-3 weeks ago, I got the itch to build, and just kind of looked through every legendary creature, and thought Prossh looked interesting. From there, it was just a matter of hashing out a list and making cuts, and I am now pretty jazzed about playing the list.
Do you think they would be allowed for EDH play when prizes are involved?
We have weekly paid events at our LGS and we allow them; no one has any issues with it, and it allows more people access to cards like fetches, Survival, Wasteland, and such.
Ramp is only dominant against bad players or bad luck.
Not necessarily. In metas where mass LD is frowned upon/not allowed, ramp is going to floruish. Yes, disruption exists, but players have to draw it and be able to use it effectively. If the ramp player gets put at a table where no one is playing blue and mass LD is not an option, a reasonable draw for them puts them in the driver's seat pretty often.
Of course, perhaps when you said "bad players", you meant people who don't play blue.
As a community, we need to accept MLD in particular or cards like Blood Moon and Stranglehold or we're going to continuously have these complaints about the power level of cards that ramp well in green (the ENTIRE strength of the color).
In conclusion, if you are not willing to run cards that provide a direct counter to the strategy that you hate, then you do not have room to complain about the strength of those cards when they go unchecked. It's about perceived threat level and what you, the deck builder, choose to do about it.
I am a big proponent of using land destruction as a ramp deterrent/nullifier; I more or less had to argue with most of our playgroup about it repeatedly before they relented. Amusingly, Primetime's silliness was the thing that swayed everyone, pretty much. I have played mass LD a few times since we allowed it and everyone has been more or less fine with it.
I have told people ever since we removed the LD penalty that the best way to stop my decks and ramp decks is just to play Armageddon, Cataclysm, Jokulhaups, etc. Blood Moon is good too, but is a less permanent answer (and, in some cases, irrelevant). I understand that blowing up everyone's lands can be miserable and not all that fun, but is the alternative (an opponent ramping without fear into silliness) really that much better?
Moreover, everyone complains about Sylvan Primordial but should realize that it is a functional DOWNGRADE from Prime Time (who was rightly banned).
It's a downgrade, but not by much, frankly. You can't get utility lands, but you get 1-2 more lands than you do with Primetime and you get to blow stuff up, all for only 1 more mana. I don't think the card needs to be banned; I was just making the observation that it has made games in our playgroup really miserable of late, and more miserable than Primetime ever did, and I have personally stopped playing it for that reason.
I more or less agree with your post as a whole; I just wanted to clarify my position.
Our group has allowed mass LD for about a year and we have had zero complaints about it. Ramp is just so good that it needs some kind of answer that isn't a 1 for 1, and stuff like Acidic Soil, while fine, isn't enough of a deterrent. Of course, even with mass LD available, ramp is still the primary strategy, so take that for what it's worth.
As far as individual cards, Sylvan Primordial has become the most miserable thing ever. I stopped playing it a couple of months ago, but others still do, although I think they are getting a bit weary of it also.
Thanks again for the pointers guys, this is really cool to take a look at.
Another question, if you've actually helped run one of these events; Did you find it worth it, and would you do it again, or do it regularly? I'm looking at organizing and running this thing for at least the next couple weeks, and if it's successful I'll run it for the foreseeable future O.o Just don't want to invest too much into it if it's not going to be a lot of fun for everyone lol.
Well, I have run our events, EDH and otherwise, since 2004. It's worth it to me because it provides a service to the community, and I love getting newer players involved. We have been doing the mutliplayer EDH events for close to 3 years now (we did 1v1 before), and it's been really rewarding for me personally.
What seems really odd to me is the unbalanced nature of the meta in a multiplayer environment. The thing I seem to be hearing pretty consistently is that the only way aggro decks survive is to tilt the points in their favor, and punish combo. Is just plain rules EDH multiplayer almost entirely run by combo now? it just seems that in a nuetral state, aggro should beat control, control should beat combo, combo should beat aggro.
It's odd that that doesn't happen O.o I just feel like with those points systems it's going to favor the aggro stuff pretty heavily, but that they need that favor to stand a chance. That might piss off the control players as being unfair, or whatever.
Anyone had these issues that they've seen?
Well, in our events last year, things got messy as someone brought combo and won a couple of events with it. So, some people adjusted and played more control in order to take care of that, but others added combos to their decks, and eventually (this is all over about a 6-8 week period) everyone had some number of infinite combos in their decks. What happened was that the control players would have to use their resources to stop the first combo that was attempted, so the next player had free reign to simply go off unmolested.
The problem was threefold:
1). Some players didn't adapt properly and did not make changes in their decks to prevent the combo players from going off.
2). Improper threat assessment (going after the only person playing blue when someone playing a dedicated combo deck is sitting right there, etc.).
3). There was no real penalty for comboing off after turn 5.
Since #3 was the only one that I could control in any manner, I made changes to the points (which we change up twice a year anyway), and it has more or less worked out really well since. Some of us have also tried to teach the less experiences players to adapt their deckbuilding and improve their threat assessment, but that has been a difficult road.
We have a weekly mutliplayer event at our LGS, and we use a point system. The structure is basic: tables of 4 (if possible, otherwise there can be tables of 3 or 5), and we make cuts based on points. Example:
Most recently, we had 18 players, so we did a 4/4/5/5 split. The winner of each table in points advances, and then the 4 players with the next highest points overall from the tables do as well, which gives us two tables of 4. From those two tables, the winner of each and the next two highest in points advance to the final table of 4. Those players either play it out or split the prizes, usually depending on what time it is to make that decision.
We charge $6/person, which puts 2 packs per person into the prize pool. The combination of points and just solid community building has allowed us to have minimal issues with degenerate decks and such. The point system has been instrumental in growing the community, and we average about 16 people per event (largely because our Summer events have had lower turnout due to it being a college town; during Fall and Spring semesters, we've been averaging about 20 people per event).
Gaze of Granite does hit planeswalkers, but at sorcery speed. Sorcery speed is what makes this card lack luster. Tapping out on your turn can get you killed in this game.
There is also the classic move of Deeding at the end of the player’s turn before you, dropping a creature and attacking a walker with haste.
The board state can change dramatically before your next turn that it is best to not tap out on your turn if you can help it.
I was not advocating Gaze of Granite over any of those cards, simply as a complement to them. I am aware that it being sorcery speed makes it less desirable at times, but the ability to blow up everything other than lands is a powerful tool at any speed.
I do find it odd that you present two creatures without flash as alternatives for dealing with planeswalkers at instant speed. Yes, there are cards that give your guys flash (essentially) or let you cheat them into play at instant speed, but not enough to say that they are reliable answers at instant speed IMO, esp. without blue in the equation.
Regardless, my viewpoint is that if you want to max out on sweepers that can kill as many things as possible, Gaze is definitely worthy of your consideration.
I just made an incredibly janky deck that I need to finish pimping; Japanese (or German) Telim'Tor's Darts are not that easy to find.
Sometimes you just need a break.
We have weekly paid events at our LGS and we allow them; no one has any issues with it, and it allows more people access to cards like fetches, Survival, Wasteland, and such.
Not necessarily. In metas where mass LD is frowned upon/not allowed, ramp is going to floruish. Yes, disruption exists, but players have to draw it and be able to use it effectively. If the ramp player gets put at a table where no one is playing blue and mass LD is not an option, a reasonable draw for them puts them in the driver's seat pretty often.
Of course, perhaps when you said "bad players", you meant people who don't play blue.
I am a big proponent of using land destruction as a ramp deterrent/nullifier; I more or less had to argue with most of our playgroup about it repeatedly before they relented. Amusingly, Primetime's silliness was the thing that swayed everyone, pretty much. I have played mass LD a few times since we allowed it and everyone has been more or less fine with it.
I have told people ever since we removed the LD penalty that the best way to stop my decks and ramp decks is just to play Armageddon, Cataclysm, Jokulhaups, etc. Blood Moon is good too, but is a less permanent answer (and, in some cases, irrelevant). I understand that blowing up everyone's lands can be miserable and not all that fun, but is the alternative (an opponent ramping without fear into silliness) really that much better?
It's a downgrade, but not by much, frankly. You can't get utility lands, but you get 1-2 more lands than you do with Primetime and you get to blow stuff up, all for only 1 more mana. I don't think the card needs to be banned; I was just making the observation that it has made games in our playgroup really miserable of late, and more miserable than Primetime ever did, and I have personally stopped playing it for that reason.
I more or less agree with your post as a whole; I just wanted to clarify my position.
As far as individual cards, Sylvan Primordial has become the most miserable thing ever. I stopped playing it a couple of months ago, but others still do, although I think they are getting a bit weary of it also.
Carbondale. About 50 miles from the southern tip of the state.
And to the OP, good luck. I hope it works out; point systems are tricky at first, so make everyone aware that there will be growing pains.
Well, I have run our events, EDH and otherwise, since 2004. It's worth it to me because it provides a service to the community, and I love getting newer players involved. We have been doing the mutliplayer EDH events for close to 3 years now (we did 1v1 before), and it's been really rewarding for me personally.
Well, in our events last year, things got messy as someone brought combo and won a couple of events with it. So, some people adjusted and played more control in order to take care of that, but others added combos to their decks, and eventually (this is all over about a 6-8 week period) everyone had some number of infinite combos in their decks. What happened was that the control players would have to use their resources to stop the first combo that was attempted, so the next player had free reign to simply go off unmolested.
The problem was threefold:
1). Some players didn't adapt properly and did not make changes in their decks to prevent the combo players from going off.
2). Improper threat assessment (going after the only person playing blue when someone playing a dedicated combo deck is sitting right there, etc.).
3). There was no real penalty for comboing off after turn 5.
Since #3 was the only one that I could control in any manner, I made changes to the points (which we change up twice a year anyway), and it has more or less worked out really well since. Some of us have also tried to teach the less experiences players to adapt their deckbuilding and improve their threat assessment, but that has been a difficult road.
Most recently, we had 18 players, so we did a 4/4/5/5 split. The winner of each table in points advances, and then the 4 players with the next highest points overall from the tables do as well, which gives us two tables of 4. From those two tables, the winner of each and the next two highest in points advance to the final table of 4. Those players either play it out or split the prizes, usually depending on what time it is to make that decision.
We charge $6/person, which puts 2 packs per person into the prize pool. The combination of points and just solid community building has allowed us to have minimal issues with degenerate decks and such. The point system has been instrumental in growing the community, and we average about 16 people per event (largely because our Summer events have had lower turnout due to it being a college town; during Fall and Spring semesters, we've been averaging about 20 people per event).
I hope your events turn out well!
I was not advocating Gaze of Granite over any of those cards, simply as a complement to them. I am aware that it being sorcery speed makes it less desirable at times, but the ability to blow up everything other than lands is a powerful tool at any speed.
I do find it odd that you present two creatures without flash as alternatives for dealing with planeswalkers at instant speed. Yes, there are cards that give your guys flash (essentially) or let you cheat them into play at instant speed, but not enough to say that they are reliable answers at instant speed IMO, esp. without blue in the equation.
Regardless, my viewpoint is that if you want to max out on sweepers that can kill as many things as possible, Gaze is definitely worthy of your consideration.