MTG Salvation

Yea it's a little frustrating to play against. Hits like a truck sometimes. Saves there critters other times.

I wouldn't feel so bummed if some of the other charms weren't very specific (rakdos charm) or just plain bad (Dimir).

Quote from 5480

BR zombies can vary from playing 16 Zombies to just gravecrawlers and messengers.
Without posting your decklist, no one can see why your deck is not performing well.

Well I have not played it recently, only decided to look back but I took a modified version of the rakdos aggro deck that top8 in Verona (Similar enough, the removal package is expanded at the cost of hellriders and vampire nighthawks).

Oh, speaking of Boros Charm, I have come to really hate that card. I mean, seriously??? Indestructibility on all dudes (just about strictly better than Golgari charm's regen [I VERY rarely use that phrase]), giving a dude double strike, OR 4 to the face??? Charms are supposed to be decent little tricks, not 3 very legitimate spells in 1 spell for 2 mana at instant speed. The fact that it is a 3 dollor UNCOMMON speaks volumes.

That was indeed painful to experience. Nothing else compares to the sheer versatility that card possesses. I wouldn't care if the other ones weren't regulated to sideboard material at most.

My gut tells me that my mono black zombie sweeper deck would do well in this meta. I just may test it out one week. Haven't played it in ages but it wrecked house when it did.

Key cards:

Gravecrawler
Geralf's Messenger
Blood Artist
Falkenrath Noble
Mutilate
Killing Wave

Adding mutilate to the mix is really the only change, but I can see it being devastating possibly. I also thought about it after being crushed by an indestructable wave of 16 damage. It's really the only thing I can think of that could save us from that kind of a boardstate, hence I fear we have to run 3+

Since b/r zombies had there falling out(yet people still board for it liberally ), I have been trying to brew/toy with older archetypes in an attempt to get a unique hit on the meta. No avail though, now I am missing that success rate I had.

Anyone explain the issue the deck faced and why it has almost disappeared as of late? (only a few showing in a mtgo daily, I believe?) At fnm's I am simply out aggro'd but I really hate to attribute only that to the cause. Is it too restricting with mana costs/tribal needs? This was the deck that punished shock lands and had some of the most resilient/aggressive creatures and now it gets wrecked by common naya brews, ughh...

Anyone explain this?

Wait...What decks are you guys using this in?

After remembering the card and realizing it has some decent value with snaps, I still couldn't figure out what deck could utilize them.

Quote from mishima_kazuya

This thread needs to be unstickied as Jund zombies has replaced Br Zombies as the premier deck choice for people playing multiple basic swamps.

Is there a thread here for that? I can't seem to find it

Talk about disappointment when this was the uncounterable for Izzet. Felt like some modern insert for standard.

Still sad

Yea I currently too am having a bit difficulty covering my ass in most match-ups.

Everyone has great threats that put me on the defensive way too fast and it seems there late game is just as good as the first few turns. Magmaquake actually helped more than it hurt but honestly there is just too few options. Other control deck trounce me, aggro out races me, and midrange out values me.

@Boxtops

If you are dedicating so much room for draw, why not use more bonfires? Drop the barter in blood and have bonfire and magmaquakes as your choice of sweeps. End of turn bonfires are amazing for the decks that are capable of pulling it off, albeit just a tad bit more unreliable.

I played with four with only two think twice a while ago and it was awesome against aggro. Used izzet charms to dump any that were duds in hand.

Quote from amk320

Also, I see two of you on this page alone are running a 1/1 split between Olivia Voldaren and Lone Revenant. How is this working out? I've always just used 2 of one or the other.

Most of the time I draw either one or the other, so no particular reason. Rarely do I have both in hand but neither is good in two's. Also I figured I would rather diversify my threats, figure out which is better overall. So far they both are good in specific situations, so it's a little tough to decide on one or the other. Hence it has stayed that way for a while, I definitely do not want more than 3 bombs (including homicidal seclusion). Neither are Consecrated sphinx, that's for sure.

Land base is a little iffy, but I have yet to have any major disruptions so It stays for now(Also 24 has been a very sweet spot for me now, maybe it's just lack of use but I will keep it for now). So far this list has had the most success for me. The runechanters pike is usually dropped as a win con on any of the eight creatures, it actually has worked pretty well. Magmaquake is an all star, instant speed is amazing in this meta. Also Izzet charm is actually holding it's ground so far, I have used all three of it's abilities with moderate success, discard is helpful for closing a game out or digging for quake/snaps. It was definitely an improvement over dimir, as I could never get the answers I needed now but had to wait till next draw step.

So far though I have a favorable win ratio against my friends jund deck and another Naya humans. Did well in about three days of playing against other top decks semi-competitively at my LGS, BUT it's still far too little, no actual tournament or even fnm.

@cipher
Searing spear: I have no clue why I continually include it but it just seems like one of the best early removal spells we have. I never actually gave it too much thought, but than again I have never been disappointed with it. It's fast and it takes out a huge swath of targets while remaining an easy snap target. If it was to be replaced it would HAVE to be a two mana alternative, possibly one of the charms(?).

One thing I would be wary of is the counterspells in your list. Caverns seem to be popping up every where, naya humans runs four. And the uwr flash was calling wizards for their type, be careful. I ended up going with negates and hoping my removal covered the board.

Last comment seems to be with your card draw/land count. 2 thoughtflares, 3 think twice, and a revelation seems a bit over kill with 26 land count backed up with keyrunes. I can imagine some very slow opening hands. I won't lie, I did get stuck on 4 mana a few games but being a bit greedy helped me with topdecking and keeping a solid streak of disruption going on.

What do you guys think of replacing the Auger with invisible stalker/hands of binding in the 4-0 daily deck?

I am having a lot of success with that synergy and I want to incorporate it, but the decklist seems kind of crammed. I love stalker and I view him as one of the best options for a tempo decklist to get reliable damage through, comboing for additional tempo seems win-win.

Quote from amk320

Overall, I'm pretty frustrated and disappointed. All the cards work. It just seems far too dependent on what order I draw them in. If everything doesn't come together perfectly, I tend to lose. I'll give Magmaquake a go to see if that imrpoves things, but I doubt it will. I still would've had Aurelia the Warleader and Restoration Angel beating my face in tonight. On top of that, both decks I played ran four Boros Reckoner. I do NOT want to sweep with a damage-based sweeper with two or more of them out.


My kingdom for an uncounterable and unconditional sweeper... and more lifegain.

I'm definitely going to add more draw. I just didn't have answers when I needed them tonight.

Yea, if you are having trouble with the reckoners than magmaquake is not the spell you want. I run a set of dreadbore's main deck, as I believe that it is far to valuable for use not to run. Currently in the process of rebuilding so I cannot give an accurate decklist, but I have set a control list skeleton down that seems to deal with the naya lists favorable at best, equal at worst.

The reach some of these decks have is just obscene sometimes, give them a turn to set up and they can achieve a 12 life point swing from instants alone

@amk320

Thanks for the great post, it has really affected my attempt to revise my Grixis. It's nice seeing a post that actually mentions the shortcomings of a tournament, as opposed too "went 8-0 only losing one game".

I simply cannot imagine mutilate (many times I had only 1-2 swamps out) working here though, I would totally recommend Magmaquake. It fills a slightly different role but instant psuedosweepers is really a unique ability to posses. But it also sucks against the boros reckoner/boros charms finding there way into most fnm's. Also rakdos keyrune is fantastic with homicidal seclusion.

I think Dimir charm should be a staple here, as it can almost guarantee a flip in most situations. All three of it's modes are a useful asset to us.

The decks that are not affected by the kill, most likely is hurt bad by the sorcery counter.

No testing done, solely speaking on theory.

Get one boros set as a base than fill it up with whatever is missing. Buying four is a bad idea, champion of the parish is listed as 4 dollars minimum but you will never trade for value. Most of the value in these decks are from stuff that's not in demand at all.