Just tell them. No need to sugar coat it. Be as polite as necessary, but there is absolutely no reason you need to make them still feel good about themselves. They're being pavloved that it's GOOD behavior, they aren't even aware it's happening necessarily. A good ol "hey dude you realllllly smell like ass all the time, go shower before FNM" that'll do, it may actually sink in. Do a tad negative reinforcement FOR hygiene.
e: rrr sorry mods I thought the filter would pick that up? But I've gotten warnings for self-filtering
I came to a conclusion the other day, after a lot of thought.
Tarmogoyf should probably be banned in modern.
Now before you jump down my throat, read my reasons:
1) if you're running green (seemingly regardless of archetype) and you're not running goyf, you're seen as "doing it wrong". A legitimate modern control decklist, subbing out 'goyf for more synergistic considerations was immediately trash-talked and said to be a "budget list" and therefore not worthy of consideration. It's just a vanilla beater, but people are so brainwashed into jamming it into everything that they refuse to see good deckbuilding when it comes along. This is unhealthy for the game.
2) it's stupidly, ridiculously expensive. It's a crazy statistical outlier. Despite your individual opinions on 'goyf and his cost, there's a problem with it being significantly more expensive than any other single card by quite some margin. It's the elephant in the room as far as cost goes, and wizards should understand that because of point 1, this becomes a problem for most people. Sure, some people can afford to blow money on this guy (myself included) but let's be clear, the forces that make a card expensive usually reach a sort of ceiling. vendilion clique is at that ceiling, more or less. The market has deigned to treat goyf like it's a different sort of resource, worthy of different prices to everything else. It's not healthy for the game.
People's opinions on goyf have reached a strange kind of "brainwashed" status, which i find troubling. It is just a good card. There are other good cards. Yet people set it apart from everything else and treat it like mana from heaven.
Tldr; i don't think it's too powerful. I think it's too pervasive. People have formed a weird pseudo-indoctrinated view of this card like it's the only choice if you're playing green, regardless of what deck you're building. Even where it doesn't really fit, people jam it in there and when someone decides to drop it for something more synergistic, they are berated for making "budget decisions".
Wise up people. It should be banned. When a vanilla beater gets people as riled up as this, there's something wrong. Just reprinting it over and over won't solve the problem of people's views on the card.
Your entire opinion, is necessarily wrong, and incredibly dismissive. Goyf is not just shove into every G deck, as has been stated it; isn't run in all of them.
Simply calling goyf a "good" card, while correct, is a bit lax. As is often noted in whatever lists, there is a common idea of best 2 drops per color, guess what G's is? The margin between #1 for G and #2 in G, is immense.
For comparison, the best 2cmc W card is SFM. SFM is better than goyf. SFM can be had for $10. The best U is SCM, SCM can be gotten for $20. Oh, SCM is better too. And Bob, closer in price, but still better, for the B 2cmc card. It's close, but at $70 is ~ half.
The inherent argument the OP is presenting is that modern decks need diversification. Its not just Tarmogyf that makes it powerful but the entire BGx shell. Death rite, thought seize, Liliana, Bob, goyf and abrupt decay that is so powerful.
I think some cards need to come off the banned list to battle the BG as the best midrange in Modern.
(Stoneforge, wild nacatl, preordain, Jace the Mind Sculptor all come to mind)
The issue is that the cards which need to come off will also shoot up in price. One in particular would hit like 3 or more times the price of goyf [yes JTMS should be unbanned, as well as SFM]. This is due to goyf's position in aggro. Aggro beats combo, combo beats control, control beats aggro. JTMS and SFM are control cards, both of which would hose goyf, although sadly a bant deck would play all 3 [sadly, lol]
3 is too much for Standard, but that has become the industry standard. 3 in Legacy I couldn't ever see being played.
A lot of the 1-mana counterspells (Spell Pierce, Spell Snare) are fair, and even cards like Daze are fair. Although I'm a fairly anti-blue player (see: plays combo decks in Legacy), I think besides FoW, everything is pretty reasonable right now.
Besides FoW? So FoW isn't fair? You do realize FoW is often heralded as the only reason Legacy works, or the largest reason. Either way, without it; combo would be more stupid and absurd than it already is.
You seem to forget that more people will get JTMS from FTV:20. There are more JTMS reprinted than LotV.
I had thought INN was a ridiculously highly opened set. While there aren't enough, there are a lot.
e: You also forget, maybe?, JTMS was banned in standard. Lilly isn't that good. She's good, but not close. The gap from 1 to 2, is large, the gap from 2 to 3, is large, but 1 to 2 is much larger than 2 to 3. I'd say 1 to 2 is larger than 2 to n.
Lesson 3 why you don't by physical product. One is because it's -ev. Three is because of whatever the scumbags do to sort packs and only get the good cards.
I can't find it. The wizards youtube seems sorely lacking. I want to go back in time, and watch the standard format evolve. Basically though scars block. But start at the beginning.
Anyone have any links?
This is specifically for caw-blade. So PT Paris matters.
Anyone have an idea on the value of a foil german Crucible of Worlds? I picked it up a long time ago when I couldn't find an english foil, and it's really grown on me. German cards weren't too "pimp" then, but they've gotten more popular.
While german cards are more than English, they're not even near Japanese/Russian/Korean. I got my Flooded Strand, Snapcasters, and various commons/uncommons for cheaper than English. I've seen the same one on ebay [foil german] for months at ~$100. I'd put it at about 10-15% more than an English foil.
The idea that spell and creatures are about equal in power today, is ludicrous [basing that off std]. Creatures FAR outweigh spells. By a ridiculous amount.
I play legacy, I have 4 tri colored decks;
WUB
URG
WBG
WBR
e:
I refuse to play STD, it's FAR more expensive to keep up with than legacy, oh, and it's stupidly unhealthy and unfun, modern isn't fun. Although I do have 3ish modern decks where all I have to do is move around cards to make them.
ee:
The WUB deck is deathblade, which is technically 4 color.
Yes, and no. It COMPLETELY depends on the game state. If you're stabilized, and at a decent life, no. If they're out tempoing you, and digging for land, yes.
e: rrr sorry mods I thought the filter would pick that up? But I've gotten warnings for self-filtering
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Your entire opinion, is necessarily wrong, and incredibly dismissive. Goyf is not just shove into every G deck, as has been stated it; isn't run in all of them.
Simply calling goyf a "good" card, while correct, is a bit lax. As is often noted in whatever lists, there is a common idea of best 2 drops per color, guess what G's is? The margin between #1 for G and #2 in G, is immense.
For comparison, the best 2cmc W card is SFM. SFM is better than goyf. SFM can be had for $10. The best U is SCM, SCM can be gotten for $20. Oh, SCM is better too. And Bob, closer in price, but still better, for the B 2cmc card. It's close, but at $70 is ~ half.
The issue is that the cards which need to come off will also shoot up in price. One in particular would hit like 3 or more times the price of goyf [yes JTMS should be unbanned, as well as SFM]. This is due to goyf's position in aggro. Aggro beats combo, combo beats control, control beats aggro. JTMS and SFM are control cards, both of which would hose goyf, although sadly a bant deck would play all 3 [sadly, lol]
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
L: $102.00 M: $124.99 H: $165.00
Huh, weird. Back after PT:Paris, before he was banned, JTMS hit $200. A lot of people don't remember this.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Besides FoW? So FoW isn't fair? You do realize FoW is often heralded as the only reason Legacy works, or the largest reason. Either way, without it; combo would be more stupid and absurd than it already is.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
I had thought INN was a ridiculously highly opened set. While there aren't enough, there are a lot.
e: You also forget, maybe?, JTMS was banned in standard. Lilly isn't that good. She's good, but not close. The gap from 1 to 2, is large, the gap from 2 to 3, is large, but 1 to 2 is much larger than 2 to 3. I'd say 1 to 2 is larger than 2 to n.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Hmm? She will NEVER break JTMS prices. Most people don't recall, but after PTParis, he hit $200 for a standard card.
Oh, and;
LotV
Low: 34.89
Mid: 40.94
High: 50.75
JTMS
Low: 109.95
Mid: 131.00
High: 169.98
Not even a third. So she isn't even near being on the way. There's not doubt her #2 status, but there's a bit of a range.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Anyone have any links?
This is specifically for caw-blade. So PT Paris matters.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
While german cards are more than English, they're not even near Japanese/Russian/Korean. I got my Flooded Strand, Snapcasters, and various commons/uncommons for cheaper than English. I've seen the same one on ebay [foil german] for months at ~$100. I'd put it at about 10-15% more than an English foil.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
WUB
URG
WBG
WBR
e:
I refuse to play STD, it's FAR more expensive to keep up with than legacy, oh, and it's stupidly unhealthy and unfun, modern isn't fun. Although I do have 3ish modern decks where all I have to do is move around cards to make them.
ee:
The WUB deck is deathblade, which is technically 4 color.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.