I could be wrong, but I think that Martial Glory and Common Bond can trigger Heroic twice. If they do, I might consider running a few.
You are wrong (for the same creature). Heroic triggers on casting a spell, not on targetting - it's just that the condition which has to be met is that the spell must be targetting the heroic creature. This condition is true whether you target the creature once or seventeen times with the single spell.
This is the bant aggro deck I brewed up last night, and I've been tweaking it for the past few hours on cockatrice:
It works because the creature's controller getting a Boar token is not contingent on the creature being exiled
Why isn't it? It specifically says "For each creature exiled this way," and from 406.2 "An exiled card is a card that’s been put into the exile zone."
Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect, and the commander command-zone replacement effect replaces being exiled. Given that the templating appears to be identical, why would the rulings be different?
Fleecemane Lion seems to indicate that Wizard wants standard G/W hexproof to be a thing even more.
He doesn't become relevant in hexproof until after verdict mana is on the board, which is basically the only thing the "indestructible" part is relevant against now that terminus is rotating. There's still a lot of wicked sweet edicts (Devour Flesh, Celestial Flare), and I'd put money on Merciless Eviction starting to see play in this block.
So, basically, he's a really, really, really slow hexproof that you can't safely suit up until turn 6 or later.
That's really not how hexproof decks are supposed to work.
Is it just me or is Curse of the Swine ridikilus? Especially if you have a way to deal with the 2/2s, like Illness in the Ranks (although including that solely to make Curse of the Swine better is pretty janky)
What might be more reasonable though, is to have some Prophetic Prism to get you the white mana, but at that point, you're probably just better with UB.
I have a question: How does this card interact with Underworld Cerberus? You sacrifice the Cerberus and then what happens? I think you can target a card (since Cerberus is dead as part of the casting cost) you get all creatures from the graveyard to your hand, except the one you have targeted, but does Cerberus return at the beginning of your upkeep or does he remain exiled?
Can't even cast it. You don't pay costs until the final step of casting a spell. Choosing targets is the first (well, second - first is announcing that you're casting it). You can't choose a target (since Cerberus is in play), so you can't cast it at all.
I think that Ogre Battledriver is a huge trap. I know, I know, "dies to removal" - but what makes Gruul so strong right now is that all of the curve toppers (Hellrider, Thundermaw Hellkite) don't, except for instant-speed removal.
When you've got a whole turn where your most powerful cards literally do nothing, AND die to both Mizzium Mortars and Dreadbore (which will likely start showing up MB a lot more post-rotation), they don't seem like the greatest curve-toppers.
Additionally, Burning-Tree Emissary and Gladecover Scout don't seem like they belong in this kind of early-mid aggro deck. BTE is a card that lets you drop all your hand and overpower your opponent's ability to deal with your fast aggression. This kind of deck doesn't have a lot of power on the low end of the curve - which makes your BTE kind of a "do-nothing". Its interaction with Ogre Battledriver is cute, but I don't think it makes it worth the inclusion.
Of course, maybe all this changes based on what cards come out in Theros...
...which is why, generally, you shouldn't even think about building a deck for post-rotation. You're building a deck without 249 of the cards which will be legal in the format.
This would be awesome, except you can't play the Dark Favor on the Fiendslayer Paladin because the Paladin cannot be the target of black or red spells.
Sure you can. The Paladin can't be the target of black or red spells your opponents control.
This is the deck I posted in the other junk aura thread. I modified it a little bit after testing it in solitaire and online with cockatrice. I plan on building it out and taking it to FNM, and then taking it to the PTQ this saturday.
The removal makes this deck fairly interactive (which is "verboten" for hexproof decks, but whatever, it works), and it has a lot of stabilization options against aggro decks. It's strong against most big archetypes except maybe hardcore control with 4 Celestial Flare, Terminus and Supreme Verdict - the Orzhov Charm mainboard tech is good, but not THAT good, since it slows us down too much to deal with that.
This seems like perhaps a completely terrible deck. You're running 21 lands in a three-colour deck which curves out at five. You're going to have mana problems for days. Tithe drinker is pretty bad, so is thrull parasite - extort isn't so good of a mechanic that you should be wasting card slots on cards like that. Chop those out, put in a good four or five lands, drop the corpsejack menaces (you don't *need* four drops - we're a voltron deck, we thrive on suiting dudes up), increase the number of good creatures you have (3 archangels, 3 blood barons, 4 fiendslayers, 4 of the dutiful thrull).
That should keep you at 60 but vastly improve your deck's ability to do things.
Oh, wait, no. Remove the Blood Barons. He's a terrible choice here - 75% of your suits don't fit him. If you're looking for trolololol lifegain just replace him with Rhox Faithmender. There, now you have three 4-drops.
I just hate to be unable to do Unflinching Courage and Ethereal Armor because they kill the dork, which will happen a lot.
Maybe another Godless or Isolated to get to 11 white sources or a mix of elves and Pilgrims to get to 12 or 13 W sources.
We could cut a forest to add a third godless shrine, but that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back - we might lose too many chances at T1 G source, and we might have to shock ourselves too frequently against aggro decks.
Voice is irreplaceable, but if it is primarily to deal with edicts and wipes, Young Wolf could be a budget replacement. It's not like we are filling the ground with creatures. It is cheaper and doesn't need W either. It doesn't do much damage on it's own, though.
The voice is primarily for wipes and sac effects - it occupies roughly the same position in the deck as the strangleroot geist, with the upside of reducing our-turn interactions. We could replace the voice with golgari charms for wipe-protection, but for these colours I think we need more creatures to enchant than the bant sexproof deck. Young Wolf doesn't do enough damage to put the clock on - the only reason Gladecover Scout is good as a 1/1 is the hexproof.
@KoolMage: I think that this most closely resembles the decks you're building. I based it mostly on the third deck, but all of the decks had a lot of unplayable enchantments in them. You'll notice that it's a bit more black-secondary than my white-secondary list, with white as the splash instead of black.
Trample is strictly a psuedo-evasion. It lets you push damage through, but isn't a true evasion like Flying, Intimidate, Landwalk, etc. (what I was referencing).
Right, but that's all we need. Our dudes will be big enough and/or have first strike, and we've got Orzhov Charm for removal (plus more in the board).
The job of this deck is get-'em-to-0-ASAP. It's an aggro deck that has tools to stick around for the long game (Fireshrieker, Ethereal Armor, etc).
You don't really need evasion if it will dilute your deck. Evasion is good - picking bad cards to get it isn't.
Ima respond with [EDITS] as I read more. first thing in deck one, I like Ring of Kalonia better than forced adaptation, even though one of your critters is white. reason being because it grants trample while growing the creature. i know its not an aura but....
Neither of those cards is all that great. Ring of Kalonia less so because it costs more.
Because it's a four-mana do-nothing dies-to-literally-everything-but-shock-and-pillar card. Slow, requires other cards in order to actually come online, and sits too high on the curve for such a small board state impact.
treasury thrull. just an idea, but ramp to this big bad boy and return stuff to your hand. extort is the icing on the proverbial thrull cake. 6drop, but not uncastable in these colors.
It fits the colours, and I'm actually a fan of the card, but I really don't think it goes anywhere near this deck. It belongs in a different archetype.
I like it, in light of an upcoming enchantment block. I like Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker as hexproof creatures, unfortunately, not a lot of hexproof that falls in junk colors. Maybe some flying creatures for more evasiveness? Sengir Vampire I think would work at the top of the curve (since no ramping). I think (and I hate to say it), even Kingpin's Pet and Deathgaze Cockatrice could work here with the right auras on them.
I think you've got enough evasion with Rancor, Unflinching Courage and Gift of Orzhova. We also have colours for targetted critter killers, which gives us even more reach - diluting your game plan to try for even more evasion will weaken the deck overall, especially if you're looking at bad 5-drops like Sengir Vampire (if anything, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, even though it can only hold a Rancor). That would necessitate more ramp or a higher land count, which means dropping even more cards to fit the 5-drop in.
Mutavault is definitely a good idea, I'll see if I can fit it in. Re: elves vs pilgrims: they both have the G cost, so you've already got G on board if you're casting them - pilgrim fixes colours, whereas elf just gives you more green, and all but two of our lands give green, for 20 green sources. Without the pilgrims, we only have 10 white sources, which makes a lot of our stuff hard to cast.
Vault of the Archangel might be a bit too expensive. I'm a bit more reticent to try that out.
The farseeks were primarily for fixing. I think, though, that a lot of the time they clog up the T2 play, so a set of 3 Avacyn's Pilgrims might be better anyway.
I think Orzhov Charm here is a monster. It does so many things for you, against so many different decks.
I haven't worked on sideboard yet, but I think 3 Fiendslayer Paladin would be a good include. I also want to try 2 Lifebane Zombie and 2 Sin Collector, but I'm not sure if the mana would support the zombies. We also have strong colours for reanimator matchup, with Scavenging Ooze, Deathrite Shaman and Rest In Peace (we'd probably go 3 ooze or 2 RIP in the sideboard).
We also have Putrefy, Doomblade and Abrupt Decay, but I'm not sure what number and what they'd replace, and in which matchups. We might also want to try Centaur Healer to get us past the initial aggro explosion for the G/R or blitz matchup.
We also have access to Golgari Charm and Selesnya Charm.
We have a lot of good cards, problem is finding the numbers to fit them in. I'll work on it a bit and see what I can figure out.
This looks like the kind of deck that sounds good on paper, but probably performs bad in testing.
Your only reach is from rancors. Otherwise you're just swinging at dudes and hoping to bash your way through. You have creatures with regenerate/undying to try to make that strategy viable, but that just slows you down in numerous ways. You don't deal damage to them until you manage to bust open their defences, and it ties up your limited mana resources (requipping flail/fireshrieker, regenerating wolfir avenger). I doubt you can get people to lethal before their decks get online, and my money's on the midrange/control decks by that point.
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You are wrong (for the same creature). Heroic triggers on casting a spell, not on targetting - it's just that the condition which has to be met is that the spell must be targetting the heroic creature. This condition is true whether you target the creature once or seventeen times with the single spell.
This is the bant aggro deck I brewed up last night, and I've been tweaking it for the past few hours on cockatrice:
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Fabled Hero
3 Witchstalker
Instants (8)
4 Gods Willing
4 Ranger's Guile
Auras (7)
4 Aqueous Form
3 Unflinching Courage
4 Hidden Strings
Lands (22)
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
2 Temple of Mystery
6 Plains
2 Forest
3 Ordeal of Thassa
3 Triton Fortune Hunter
2 Bident of Thassa
3 Mending Touch
4 Fiendslayer Paladin
There might be room somewhere in there for Warriors' Lesson, possibly in the side replacing the Triton Fortune Hunters or Odeals of Thassa.
E: It also occurs to me that Swan Song might make a very good showing here.
Why isn't it? It specifically says "For each creature exiled this way," and from 406.2 "An exiled card is a card that’s been put into the exile zone."
Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect, and the commander command-zone replacement effect replaces being exiled. Given that the templating appears to be identical, why would the rulings be different?
He doesn't become relevant in hexproof until after verdict mana is on the board, which is basically the only thing the "indestructible" part is relevant against now that terminus is rotating. There's still a lot of wicked sweet edicts (Devour Flesh, Celestial Flare), and I'd put money on Merciless Eviction starting to see play in this block.
So, basically, he's a really, really, really slow hexproof that you can't safely suit up until turn 6 or later.
That's really not how hexproof decks are supposed to work.
Or you could go ham with Chromatic Lantern to enable Nightveil Specter.
Can't even cast it. You don't pay costs until the final step of casting a spell. Choosing targets is the first (well, second - first is announcing that you're casting it). You can't choose a target (since Cerberus is in play), so you can't cast it at all.
When you've got a whole turn where your most powerful cards literally do nothing, AND die to both Mizzium Mortars and Dreadbore (which will likely start showing up MB a lot more post-rotation), they don't seem like the greatest curve-toppers.
Additionally, Burning-Tree Emissary and Gladecover Scout don't seem like they belong in this kind of early-mid aggro deck. BTE is a card that lets you drop all your hand and overpower your opponent's ability to deal with your fast aggression. This kind of deck doesn't have a lot of power on the low end of the curve - which makes your BTE kind of a "do-nothing". Its interaction with Ogre Battledriver is cute, but I don't think it makes it worth the inclusion.
Of course, maybe all this changes based on what cards come out in Theros...
...which is why, generally, you shouldn't even think about building a deck for post-rotation. You're building a deck without 249 of the cards which will be legal in the format.
Sure you can. The Paladin can't be the target of black or red spells your opponents control.
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Witchstalker
Instants
4 Orzhov Charm
Enchantments
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Unflinching Courage
3 Gift of Orzhova
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Forest
2 Golgari Charm
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Putrefy
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Fireshrieker
The removal makes this deck fairly interactive (which is "verboten" for hexproof decks, but whatever, it works), and it has a lot of stabilization options against aggro decks. It's strong against most big archetypes except maybe hardcore control with 4 Celestial Flare, Terminus and Supreme Verdict - the Orzhov Charm mainboard tech is good, but not THAT good, since it slows us down too much to deal with that.
This seems like perhaps a completely terrible deck. You're running 21 lands in a three-colour deck which curves out at five. You're going to have mana problems for days. Tithe drinker is pretty bad, so is thrull parasite - extort isn't so good of a mechanic that you should be wasting card slots on cards like that. Chop those out, put in a good four or five lands, drop the corpsejack menaces (you don't *need* four drops - we're a voltron deck, we thrive on suiting dudes up), increase the number of good creatures you have (3 archangels, 3 blood barons, 4 fiendslayers, 4 of the dutiful thrull).
That should keep you at 60 but vastly improve your deck's ability to do things.
Oh, wait, no. Remove the Blood Barons. He's a terrible choice here - 75% of your suits don't fit him. If you're looking for trolololol lifegain just replace him with Rhox Faithmender. There, now you have three 4-drops.
Something like this:
4x Dutiful Thrull
4x Fiendslayer Paladin
4x Rhox Faithmender
3x Archangel of Thune
Spells (20)
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Rancor
4x Gift of Orzhova
4x Unflinching Courage
2x Golgari Charm
2x Orzhov Charm
4x Godless Shrine
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Temple Garden
4x Sunpetal Grove
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Plains
2x Mutavault
3x Witchstalker
3x Putrefy
2x Selesnya Charm
2x Fireshrieker
2x Pithing Needle
We could cut a forest to add a third godless shrine, but that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back - we might lose too many chances at T1 G source, and we might have to shock ourselves too frequently against aggro decks.
The voice is primarily for wipes and sac effects - it occupies roughly the same position in the deck as the strangleroot geist, with the upside of reducing our-turn interactions. We could replace the voice with golgari charms for wipe-protection, but for these colours I think we need more creatures to enchant than the bant sexproof deck. Young Wolf doesn't do enough damage to put the clock on - the only reason Gladecover Scout is good as a 1/1 is the hexproof.
@KoolMage: I think that this most closely resembles the decks you're building. I based it mostly on the third deck, but all of the decks had a lot of unplayable enchantments in them. You'll notice that it's a bit more black-secondary than my white-secondary list, with white as the splash instead of black.
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Witchstalker
Enchantments
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Gift of Orzhova
2 Unflinching Courage
Artifacts
2 Fireshrieker
2 Putrefy
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Golgari Charm
Lands
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Temple Garden
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Forest
3 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Sin Collector
1 Putrefy
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ranger's Guile
1 Golgari Charm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Centaur Healer
Right, but that's all we need. Our dudes will be big enough and/or have first strike, and we've got Orzhov Charm for removal (plus more in the board).
The job of this deck is get-'em-to-0-ASAP. It's an aggro deck that has tools to stick around for the long game (Fireshrieker, Ethereal Armor, etc).
You don't really need evasion if it will dilute your deck. Evasion is good - picking bad cards to get it isn't.
Neither of those cards is all that great. Ring of Kalonia less so because it costs more.
Because it's a four-mana do-nothing dies-to-literally-everything-but-shock-and-pillar card. Slow, requires other cards in order to actually come online, and sits too high on the curve for such a small board state impact.
It fits the colours, and I'm actually a fan of the card, but I really don't think it goes anywhere near this deck. It belongs in a different archetype.
I think you've got enough evasion with Rancor, Unflinching Courage and Gift of Orzhova. We also have colours for targetted critter killers, which gives us even more reach - diluting your game plan to try for even more evasion will weaken the deck overall, especially if you're looking at bad 5-drops like Sengir Vampire (if anything, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, even though it can only hold a Rancor). That would necessitate more ramp or a higher land count, which means dropping even more cards to fit the 5-drop in.
Mutavault is definitely a good idea, I'll see if I can fit it in. Re: elves vs pilgrims: they both have the G cost, so you've already got G on board if you're casting them - pilgrim fixes colours, whereas elf just gives you more green, and all but two of our lands give green, for 20 green sources. Without the pilgrims, we only have 10 white sources, which makes a lot of our stuff hard to cast.
Vault of the Archangel might be a bit too expensive. I'm a bit more reticent to try that out.
This is what I have now, with the sideboard.
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Witchstalker
Instants
4 Orzhov Charm
Artifacts
2 Fireshrieker
Enchantments
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Gift of Orzhova
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Godless Shrine
4 Forest
1 Mutavault
3 Golgari Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Putrefy
3 Scavenging Ooze
This is what I had initially.
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Witchstalker
Instants
4 Orzhov Charm
3 Farseek
Enchants
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Gift of Orzhova
2 Fireshrieker
Lands
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Godless Shrine
5 Forest
The farseeks were primarily for fixing. I think, though, that a lot of the time they clog up the T2 play, so a set of 3 Avacyn's Pilgrims might be better anyway.
I think Orzhov Charm here is a monster. It does so many things for you, against so many different decks.
I haven't worked on sideboard yet, but I think 3 Fiendslayer Paladin would be a good include. I also want to try 2 Lifebane Zombie and 2 Sin Collector, but I'm not sure if the mana would support the zombies. We also have strong colours for reanimator matchup, with Scavenging Ooze, Deathrite Shaman and Rest In Peace (we'd probably go 3 ooze or 2 RIP in the sideboard).
We also have Putrefy, Doomblade and Abrupt Decay, but I'm not sure what number and what they'd replace, and in which matchups. We might also want to try Centaur Healer to get us past the initial aggro explosion for the G/R or blitz matchup.
We also have access to Golgari Charm and Selesnya Charm.
We have a lot of good cards, problem is finding the numbers to fit them in. I'll work on it a bit and see what I can figure out.
Your only reach is from rancors. Otherwise you're just swinging at dudes and hoping to bash your way through. You have creatures with regenerate/undying to try to make that strategy viable, but that just slows you down in numerous ways. You don't deal damage to them until you manage to bust open their defences, and it ties up your limited mana resources (requipping flail/fireshrieker, regenerating wolfir avenger). I doubt you can get people to lethal before their decks get online, and my money's on the midrange/control decks by that point.