I think this guy has huge potential, and will probably end up being defined by future printings and the meta-game shifts. If the Thragtusk, Huntmaster, Restoration Angel (massive ETB value) cards phase out with m14 and the Innistrad block and aren't replaced by new pushed ETB cards then this guy could be seriously relevant. If they continue to push out ETB value (which was way toned down in the Rav block with an exception or 2) then this guy probably still has a home in some decks, just not a staple.
I think people tend to forget that in 3+ months there is only really gonna be a few powerful ETB value cards left in standard. The format is not going to be the same. Dies to removal is only going to be a valid argument for a 3 month period of time, then the argument will probably shift to 'he's a ton better than most of the stuff we have left'. Maybe WOTC is easing back a little on how pushed some of the value creatures are. Maybe this guy will be the new thundermaw.
People may play a lot of removal (I'm salivating over getting doomblade back) but what happens when your opponent plays this and you don't have removal in hand ready to go. . .
It can buy you time in a control deck. Are green decks really gonna jam damage with elves and pilgrims with this thing as your turn one play? How much damage does this guy need to 'prevent' to be worth it?
Have people claiming they will just attack 4 times and hold out for a 2-3 cmc removal spell even considered how much they are trading for a 1 drop?
Also what other play is a deck like grixis trading for this on turn 1? Faithless looting/thought scour/ponder are the only reasonable 1 mana plays I can think of off the top of my head.
You could make an argument that it doesn't justify a slot in control as I'm not sure exactly what you are gonna cut for these.
There is also some potential in aggro where if you have any of these on the board you can attack profitably with a substantial penalty if your opponent cracks back.
I'm not saying the card is great or even necessarily playable, but I think there are a number of possibilities to explore before we declare a card to be terrible.
The gem is a good thinner for grixis control; it also fills your hand with cards to pitch to things like faithless looting or liliana. I don't think the proper application is to try to fetch lands you need in the early game. If you are struggling on mana early you probably won't be casting the gem in the first place. Having the last 20-30 cards in your deck be nothing but gas in a control deck is a great place to be however (especially considering it can turn faithless looting into R (instant) draw two cards).
Wondering what people thought of the general viability of a list similar to this. The mana base is fairly rough and I can imagine plenty of matchups where you would be behind in game one, but most control decks are.
Is this more viable than an esper build? I don't know, but I feel Zealous Conscripts is going to be really solid in this metagame and I think control is a pretty good home for it.
Things I like:
- Every creature has strong synergy with flicker creating so many seperate strong plays (recast batterskull for 1, reflash snapcaster, perma-steal with conscripts, change dungeon geist targets, or just 3 dmg with inferno).
- Almost every spell is good for snapcaster
- Good mix of spot removal/sweepers/counters
Things I don't like
- The mana base
- Not enough finishing power againt some decks (though it should be considerably better after boarding)
- A lot of one-of and two-of's without a ton of digging
Considering Cutting
- Gideon Jura Without testing I'm not sure how viable it will be. Another inferno titan/frost titan/batterskull may be better.
- Faithless Looting I just don't think the deck would benefit much from pitching cards, though it does let you look two cards deep for 1 mana at instant speed. Maybe cut these for ponder or gitaxian probe?
- Tamiyo, the Moon Sage Just want to play with her, not sure if she's that good here or not.
Mainly wondering what people who have run something similar's opinions are of the deck (or why you decided not to), how you dealt with the manabase, how you ran and what matchups were bad, what your list was, how viable you think a tweaked deck in these colors is in the metagame, etc.
Thanks for any feedback
P.S. I put very little thought into the sideboard, so I just didn't include it.
I think people tend to forget that in 3+ months there is only really gonna be a few powerful ETB value cards left in standard. The format is not going to be the same. Dies to removal is only going to be a valid argument for a 3 month period of time, then the argument will probably shift to 'he's a ton better than most of the stuff we have left'. Maybe WOTC is easing back a little on how pushed some of the value creatures are. Maybe this guy will be the new thundermaw.
People may play a lot of removal (I'm salivating over getting doomblade back) but what happens when your opponent plays this and you don't have removal in hand ready to go. . .
Edit: saw that it was a joke and now my blood pressure has returned to an acceptable level.
It can buy you time in a control deck. Are green decks really gonna jam damage with elves and pilgrims with this thing as your turn one play? How much damage does this guy need to 'prevent' to be worth it?
Have people claiming they will just attack 4 times and hold out for a 2-3 cmc removal spell even considered how much they are trading for a 1 drop?
Also what other play is a deck like grixis trading for this on turn 1? Faithless looting/thought scour/ponder are the only reasonable 1 mana plays I can think of off the top of my head.
You could make an argument that it doesn't justify a slot in control as I'm not sure exactly what you are gonna cut for these.
There is also some potential in aggro where if you have any of these on the board you can attack profitably with a substantial penalty if your opponent cracks back.
I'm not saying the card is great or even necessarily playable, but I think there are a number of possibilities to explore before we declare a card to be terrible.
That's how I see it anyway.
Both my favorite card, and probably the best in the set.
Currently featured in 7 of the top 8 decks in the SCG Madison standard open.
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Plains
2 Mountain
4 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dungeon Geists
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Inferno Titan
2 Zealous Conscripts
Spells
2 Faithless Looting
4 Mana Leak
1 Negate
2 Slagstorm
4 Think Twice
2 Cloudshift
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Lingering Souls
2 Arc Trail
1 Day of Judgment
2 Dissipate
1 Batterskull
Planeswalkers
1 Gideon Jura
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Wondering what people thought of the general viability of a list similar to this. The mana base is fairly rough and I can imagine plenty of matchups where you would be behind in game one, but most control decks are.
Is this more viable than an esper build? I don't know, but I feel Zealous Conscripts is going to be really solid in this metagame and I think control is a pretty good home for it.
Things I like:
- Every creature has strong synergy with flicker creating so many seperate strong plays (recast batterskull for 1, reflash snapcaster, perma-steal with conscripts, change dungeon geist targets, or just 3 dmg with inferno).
- Almost every spell is good for snapcaster
- Good mix of spot removal/sweepers/counters
Things I don't like
- The mana base
- Not enough finishing power againt some decks (though it should be considerably better after boarding)
- A lot of one-of and two-of's without a ton of digging
Some of the cards I'm considering atm
- Sphere of the Suns Mana fixing, probably manditory.
- Venser, the Sojourner Stolen unblockable fatty? Yes please.
- Entreat the Angels Another viable finisher, good with Desolate Lighthouse
Considering Cutting
- Gideon Jura Without testing I'm not sure how viable it will be. Another inferno titan/frost titan/batterskull may be better.
- Faithless Looting I just don't think the deck would benefit much from pitching cards, though it does let you look two cards deep for 1 mana at instant speed. Maybe cut these for ponder or gitaxian probe?
- Tamiyo, the Moon Sage Just want to play with her, not sure if she's that good here or not.
Mainly wondering what people who have run something similar's opinions are of the deck (or why you decided not to), how you dealt with the manabase, how you ran and what matchups were bad, what your list was, how viable you think a tweaked deck in these colors is in the metagame, etc.
Thanks for any feedback
P.S. I put very little thought into the sideboard, so I just didn't include it.