MTG Salvation

Quote from Serberus_08 »

Quote from Rasputin101 »

strionic resonator and any rock that taps for 2 is infinite blinks.
Then throw reality acid or spine of ish sah into the mix and you're the only one left with any toys.

I'd cut the drogskol reaver for a mulldrifter. You'll get far better milage out of it

I personally think you should be running a ton more Etb effects to actually utilise brago

A+ answer, I agree.

Also Oblivion Ring has more utility than Stasis Snare.

And Mind's Desire doesn't really result in consistent plays unless you get your infinite cycles with Ancestral Statue/Stonecloaker

Stasis snare is mainly there because it has flash. There are a whole bunch of ways to go infinite now with Mind's Desire.

Huge overhaul. The deck is much closer to where I want it to be now.
Wasn't feeling Brighthearth combo. I cut it for Cloudstone and added Palinchron and Whale.

These cards are dead a much smaller percentage of the time, and make the deck far more consistent.
I also added Mind's Desire and Laboratory Maniac as win conditions.
Maniac had actually been in the deck; I'm not sure why it wasn't on the list.

There were also misc draw and tutor substitutions.
One of my favorite additions is Mirror Mockery, for it's versatility.

Combo section has been simplified and updated.

Quote from Elminster »

Oath of Jace/Mystic Remora seem much stronger than High Arbiter honestly. HArbiter is a 7 drop and susceptible to easy removal but Oath/Remora are cheap and hard to remove. Low cmc really metters, and in this case I believe Oath and MRemora are much stronger than Arbiter.

I don't see how you can really compare them; they do completely different things.
Arbiter lets me see everyone's hand and pithing needle every turn. Oath of Jace is already in the deck. I like Remora as a card, but I'd rather play Mul Drifter or Cloudblazer because they can draw my deck with infinite mana.

Quote from Elminster »

On Omniscience: I know it is a great card, but I am looking at it in context to Brago. Since you are not playing Enter the Infinite lab maniac or some random Eldrazi titan, I do not see the upside of playing Omniscience.

You have to look at Omniscience in the context of a combo card. (I updated the combo section to include it btw). It is going to be just as dead as Altar of the Brood or Atherflux until I have the right pieces in my hand, then I win the game

Quote from Elminster »

Recently, I had considered vendilion clique as she is low in cmc at three, has flash and can be used repeatedly as a way to either filter away unwanted cards or disrupt the opponent.

I had Clique in the original version of the list but I disliked how it drew my opponent a card. In a 100 card format like commander where people are playing so many broken cards, I feel like its kind of a crapshoot because I might draw them something even worse than the card I eliminated.

Quote from gromgrom »

Why Aetherflux Reservoir? Do you cast enough spells to make it ever relevant? I can't see a way to loop spells or go off, just curious.

There are a few cards that let me grind to Reservoir, but it has become more of a combo piece. The idea is to get infinite mana then bounce creatures that return themselves to your hand an infinite number of times. This triggers Reservoir, gaining you infinite life, and let's you kill the table. It hasn't been very consistent, but I just added a bunch of cards which I hope will make it more so.

Quote from Elminster »

I really like the Rishadan creatures with Brago + Strionic Resonator. ie, rishadan cutpurse

Several people have mentioned this combo to me and I may eventually replace World Purge with Resonator. I have this crippling condition where I'm obsessed with doing things differently and trying to win the game with janky cards that no one else plays. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but sometimes I come up with strategies that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Quote from Elminster »

Despite its incredibly high cost, do you find Alhammarret, High Arbiter worth blinking at many tables besides a way to strip opponents of removal/wincons?

Arbiter is a really fun card. It obviouslly isn't something you'd stick in a a higher tier deck, but I've been pretty happy with it. It is more of stall than a solution obviously, but it is a political card and can paint a huge target on one of your opponents. It airs everyone's dirty laundry out in the open. People will even protect it for you if you block something they really don't want played.

Quote from Watt_DeLuwatt »

Sphinx of Uthuun might be a better choice over Alhammarret, High Arbiter. The card is a similarly costed 5-powered flier, and it allows you to Fact or Fiction every time you flicker it.

I like FoF sphinx a lot; I play it in my janky Sharuum deck. It might be a better addition than Arbiter, but I've been pretty satisfied with Arbiter so far. This may change as the deck continues to evolve.

Depths is cool, but it doesn't produce mana.
I'm already running 36 lands, so it's not like I could just cut a land for it.
Then it's between a vanilla 20/20 beater and an answer, which makes it hard to squeeze in.

Plea is there because it draws me Omniscience and Future Sight. I'm not really a fan of Academy Rector because it has to die. Unless you're playing sac outlets, you're opponents are going to know what's coming and have lots of time to prepare. Plea is 5 mana but you untap rocks with Brago and Paradox Engine. Worst case scenario you cast Omniscience the next turn, whereas with Rector it might be several turns only to get countered.

Mystic Remora and Pithing Needle are good cards, but they always end up getting cut from my decks as they become more streamlined. It's worth noting that we already have Reflector Mage and Alhammarret, High Arbiter, which are bouncable.

My mana rock count is not ideal at 7, but I also play Drake and Treachery. I had added artifact lands thinking "Hey, Paradox untaps artifacts," forgetting that they still get hit with it's "nonland" clause.

Was having consistency issues so I had to cut some fun stuff for more competitive cards.
Added Enlightened Tutor, Blue Sun's Zenith, Future Sight, Plea for Guidance, and Omniscience to draw answers/combo pieces.
Added Spine and Duplicant for a more permanent solution to on board threats.

Quote from Insideouswizard »

Hi, I have a similar question. In my lgs there are several players with a very awfull Commander and I want to be able to compete with them. So I'm looking for a very oppressive general and a deck to go with it, the kind where they don't get to have any fun. I like playing control alot, I guess that helps?
Looking forward to your answers and thanks!

It depends on how oppressive you want to be. If you want to lock them out then a Stax commander like Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is the way to go. If you'd like something a little more mild you can turn a lot of decks into pillow fort, Zedru the Greathearted being one example.

If neither of those are up your ally then good old-fashioned combo/control like Sharuum the Hedgemon might do the trick.

I don't mean to be contrary but I just don't see it. I feel like you're exaggerating and that rift is a pretty fair card. I've played against it countless times and the thought that someone might find it degenerate never even crossed my mind. It is a pretty mild card compared to so many other things out there. I think most of the community probably agrees.

Alesha. Toolbox is usually pretty solid for a first commander.

There is also pretty decent removal in those colors. Don't forget to stick in a Chaos Warp and Pyroblast.

Quote from gilrad »

Power discussions aside, the primary reason why Upheaval is banned while similar cards are not is because it has a real high "abuse floor", which is generally the crux of most banlist decisions. In other words, how easy is it for someone to smash a bunch of cards together into a deck and accidentally ruin a low-medium power level game by playing a card that's only really acceptable in higher power-level situations.

I'm not saying your wrong, but if being able to "Ruin the Game" by itself is a bannable offense then why aren't Decree of Annihilation, and Worldpurge banned?

I think the thing that differentiates Upheaval is your ability to cast spells that turn.
This allows you to slap down your land/rocks and play Wheel of Fortune
You are now in a huge position of advantage and your opponents may not have any mana source in hand.

Again, this is why I'm surprised no one cares about Splendid Reclamation when it creates similar advantage with Obliterate/Jokulhaups.

Yes, opponents can still cast removal and counters in response to your advancement after the Rift, but the same could be said about players tapping mana in response to Upheaval, no?

Sorry, I meant respond to the state it creates. As soon as the Rift player ends his turn the next player can drop a wrath. The same is not true of Upheaval.
Rift is a very good card, but it doesn't end the game by itself. You need some sort of board state to win that turn, in which case something like Master Warcraft or Insurrection may just have easily won the game.

I don't see how instant speed is relevant either. So it's a fog that also potentially removes combo pieces? How is this a degenerate card?

Quote from cyberium_neo »

I'd think Cyclonic Rift is equally bad, if not worse. While it doesn't bounce lands, the caster maintains his/her whole advantage, be it combo pieces or an army, with opponents nearly defenseless.

Rift is nowhere near as bad.

1. In one of your scenarios a player has developed board state. If they have a board full of creatures and it has gone unanswered to this point, their opponents really only have themselves to blame. He's countering your wraths you say? Well then probably deserves to win for having the appropriate responses at the correct time. What makes rift so much worse than Plague Wind in this case?

2. In your second scenario the player is playing combo pieces. I'm going to assume that they are playing these the same turn as rift, as it makes no sense to not combo out their previous turn if the pieces have already been assembled. Combo is really irrelevant either way as Cyclonic Rift does not return lands, and the caster's opponents can respond to any pieces just as easily as they could have if rift had never been cast in the first place. Honestly, I can't see much reason to even cast rift if you already have your combo pieces in hand, outside of some corner case where there is a creature on the board that can disrupt you, and in many of those cases you could have just played Wrath of God.

3. How are you nearly defenseless? In what way would you have responded differently had the opponent not cast rift?
He is not preventing you from playing any removal or counter. I really don't see it.

Quote from WizardMN »

[c]Upheaval[/c] = Upheaval

Because it invalidates everything about the game up until that point. It also often just leads to a win from the Upheaval player. If you have 4 players and everyone has 10 lands and 4 creatures (basic Board states and not even as good as the Upgeaval player can get), the Upheaval player can float all their mana, bounce everything, drop a land, and then put 5 into casting spells or their general. Now, when it gets to each other player's turn, they drop a land and pass.

The player who casts Upheaval has a huge advantage when the dust settles because it resets everything (lands being the biggest issue)

I disagree about lands being the main issue. You can abuse Jokulhaups/Obliterate even worse by floating mana and casting Splendid Reclamation.
I mean, I guess they don't hit enchantments?

Then again, maybe that's more of a testament of why Splendid Reclamation should probably be banned.
When you think about it, in terms of advantage, it potentially nets you a comparable amount of lands to that of a bounced Primetime/Primordial, and requires less effot.

Normally since Jokulhaups/Obliterate hit artifacts, a MLD player needs to hold onto rocks/lands, or find some way to protect a beater like bounce/indestructibility to really abuse these cards. This means you are either severely limiting the amount of threats/answers in your hand by by filling it with rocks/lands in hope that you will be able to rebuild faster, or that you have already established some sort of powerful board state that has gone unanswered (Ulamog for example). Splendid Reclamation is crazy because you don't need to hold onto mana utility or have any sort of board state for it to be one-sided, you just need to play it with MLD. Then you have a hand full of awesome spells to unload the next turn.

We've essentially said World Purge is not too broken because it empties pools and shuffles all but seven cards, so it is a more equal reset.
So unless we want to ban every land destruction card — which I'm sure some people would be thrilled about, but lets be real — it seems like Reclamtion should probably go to maintain this line of thinking.

This is coming from someone who generally hates making the game easier, and could care less if it was never banned.

Yeah, it had occurred to me that capsize might also work, albeit a little more rock intensive. Isochron is a pretty cool way to do it, and might be easier to assemble.

Edit: Updated deck and combo section with explanations.

@SlaveToPhage
Yep, even funnier after blasting someone with Aetherflux.
You essentially kill two players and put yourself in a good position to kill a third.

Magic is much more fun when you play bad cards here and there.
I mean, I could win with Chainer by using exsanguinate effects every game, but sometimes its fun to slap down a Phage the Untouchable.
Whatever the outcome, it's hilarious. Maybe they bounce her one game to kill me idc; I just go watch TV or play overwatch.
Then again, maybe someone forgets shes in my grave and uses Diluvian Primordial on my Rise of the Dark Realms.

That lock combo is pretty cool. I actually broke down and added some combo myself.
I'm unable to update the deck right now, but I'll post the key pieces.

Paradox Engine + Mana Rocks + Aetherflux Reservoir + Stonecloaker/Æther Adept/Venser, Shaper Savant
The creatures trigger engine and aetherlux simultaneously, then return themselves to your hand.
So, you just cast them over and over, getting infinite mana/life, and kill the board with aetherflux.

I was also thinking of putting drake back in to go infinite with Eldrazi Displacer, and maybe Rings of Brighthearth/Basalt Monolith/Grim Monolith.
Then I might add some generic Sharuum stuff that kills everything with ETB.
It's very similar to my sharuum deck, but different enough that I think I would enjoy playing it.