I'd love to pick that guy's brain about the experience. Peace Keeper, while potentially powerful, is just... so bad main deck. It turns on their removal, and makes you hesitate to play humility, and doesn't mesh with geddon or moat..
And look at all those 3-ofs! I really don't see this list being able to post consistent results..
To answer those who are asking why this deck isn't doing well:
BUG. The usual White Stax build has a VERY hard time beating this deck, because it runs everything we are weak to. Counterspells, targeted permanent destruction (especially chalice-proof decays!), mana acceleration, and jace. Unfortunately, this deck is very popular, and as long as Stax doesn't get the buff it needs*, the format is going to continue to be harsh to it.
*The buff would have to be a card (or cards) that does something a card in the deck already does, either more efficiently or powerfully. This deck is more inflexible than most, which is why it is so hard to swap new cards in without hurting your consistency.
To the guy having trouble with dredge, I'm not sure what to tell you. Stax hoses combo and dredge casually, just by playing the cards in your deck. I personally don't bother siding against any form of combo, preferring to use that space to fight off burn and control as well as I can. Here's to hoping that some great new combo comes about that takes legacy by storm. That will be our day to shine in the sun.
I imagine they will all cost 2X (X being one of whatever color they are), and be indestructible enchantments that turn into 5/5 critters after devotion 5 in their color... with another 2 abilities tacked on that are on-color theme-wise, which are useful regardless of the god's creature-status.
Well, if the blue god in Theros is anything to go by, here's to hoping the white one does something great for us. Can you imagine a combo piece that becomes a 5/5 indestructible for us late game, at 3cmc? I can...
Has anyone found any new strategies for dealing with Jace, The Mind Sculptor? Specifically, any way of coming out from behind when they have you on the backfoot, other than Oblivion Ring? O-ring would be fine if I could run 6-8 of them, lol. I feel like JTMS is the only card that I consistantly can't play around.
I don't know if this has been mentioned/asked in the last 115 pages, but:
They are holding a major MAJOR tournament event for this set... Would they not make enough of a set to allow potential contenders to practice the format? I'm thinking this won't be as limited as people are thinking.
Where there situations where Thrun could win the game on his own though? I haven't tested her specifically, but many people use Thrun as a win-con and I feel that Sigarda becomes either a win-more card or a redundant spot in the deck
Yes there were times when he would win on his own, and there were times when he was dealt with as well (opposing therapies and such), or when he couldn't attack (through tarmogoyfs or when he's my only creature on board and I'm at low life vs decks with burn and gobbo guides). In these cases it was very nice to have a "2nd Thrun" that could actually add to the board. Being a green sun target is literally the crux here.
EDIT: Such "times" being throughout my playing of this deck, not just Sunday.
Round 4: U/R Delver. Another great matchup. T1 Explorer turns into a T2 Thrun. Cruise control activated. Game two, he got me to about 5 or 6 before I got him (with a 6 or 8-power ooze, I don't recall which), aided by Choke.
Therapy'ing away snapcasters and resolving Veteran Explorers seems like all you need to do against these delver decks. Swordsing the t1 delver helps too, or deeding it. Everything else is on the ground and has to attack you through our little onedrop, which sets you up for the rest of the game, while slowing them down even further.
2-1-1
Round 5: Maverick. Ugh. I had understood this to be a favorable MU. I didn't realize the synergies between Karakas and Linvala, Keeper of Silence, and Scryb Ranger and Dryad Arbor. All four of these being out, and me not drawing any therapys for a long time, made for a 35-minute game 1, which he eventually won by having enough exalted triggers to get Linvala past my Sigarda.
Game 2 was shaping up to be the same, and we ran out of time.
2-2-1
The rest I'm not going to bother with, except to say that the draw bracket is an awful place to be with Nic Fit. Stone blade? Draw. Opposing Nic Fit?(!) Obviously a draw. And of course a draw to a slow-player piloting u/r delver. >_< This deck can have a very hard time finishing matches, and that may be the most important thing I learned.
I'll post in a bit with some thoughts on card selection.
Oh, and about Sigarda, she is awesome! Exactly what you'd think she'd be, our second Thrun, trading uncounterability for flying and a point of power/toughness. A very strong finisher, and popping deed for 4 with her out feels some kind of great.
Multiple wins in sunday came from playing her with Thrun already out. There are few answers to that double-whammy in legacy.
The real question is what was Hymn doing in your deck on game 2? It's so bad vs aggro.
You should bring in 1 deed, 2 damnation, 1 ooze since you aren't running leyline of sanctity you dont need those then.
Wickerbough elder, sigarda, 1 lilliana and another card comes out I suppose. This should really not be a bad matchup as once you stabilize you win.
Looking at your list I like it but I'm not sure 3 Liliana's is needed. 2 has been good for me. Recurring nightmare is missing for you that can really help the aggro matchup too. And I've considered running Sigarda too but I always thought it'd be tough to get WWG available on turn 2 if you are casting it then. How is it? I am trying Spiritmonger atm.
I've tested the burn matchup extensively (one of the guys I rode with plays it), and everything comes down to the early game. If I can hit anything with discard, it slows them down significantly, let alone 2 cards. It isn't ideal (and I certainly don't bring it in against the likes of Maverick or other aggro decks), but it is certainly better than Maelstrom Pulse, which is what I took out.
Whether or not I side out Lily (against all agressive decks) depends on the outcome of game 1. If I'm not going first, I usually side her out if other things need to come in, as for me the majority of her value comes early and mid-game, which is when the enemy (who went first) is most likely to be able to immediately kill her.
You are correct in that the matchup is far easier if you weather the opening 4 turns. I did bring in the deed and ooze, but Damnation is far to slow for this matchup.
Round 1: Played against burn with Figure of Destiny and Vexing Devil. I'm not sure how I feel about the matchup with more creature-heavy burn lists like this one, as the increased permanent count makes keeping the Pernicious Deeds in a more attractive option. Game 1 triple Goblin Guide rushes an advantage I can't come back from (this build also runs the 5 damage miracle).
I side in Scavenging Ooze and the Hymns, but it doesn't matter as I lose game two to pretty bad luck on my part. Side question here: Would you keep this hand, game two, against a burn deck, on the play? Scavenging Ooze Kitchen Finks Sensei's Divining Top Savannah Forest Cabal Therapy Hymn to Tourach
I kept it, assuming the top would find me a land in 3 turns. It did not. I actually still almost won off of the Ooze, but sadly you do still need 3 lands.
0-1
Round 2: This was the biggest mistake I made all day. I got paired up against one of the people I rode with, and we decided to ID and go get lunch. The unintended side-effect (which really I should have known would happen) was that I was pulled into the dreaded draw-bracket. This deck takes a while to win usually, and when paired against another "slow" deck, it can be very hard to finish a match.
0-1-1
Round 3: RUG Delver. Yes! I think this has to be our best matchup. As long as you deal with Delver of Secrets promptly (Swords to Plowshares) and chose the cards that give card advantage and/or card selection for therapy (Brainstorm, Ponder, Snapcaster Mage), you will have a hard time losing. In this match I won game one uncontested with a turn 3 Thrun, and game two I don't really remember outside of nailing 3 Tarmogoyfs with one pulse. The match was not close.
This is the list I played at the Sunday Legacy Open in Nashville. I did not come away with the best result (2-2-4[!]), but I learned a lot about the deck and what you can and can't do against certain decks. I will share what I've learned hopefully after work today. Very excited, this deck has MANY good matchups.
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And look at all those 3-ofs! I really don't see this list being able to post consistent results..
BUG. The usual White Stax build has a VERY hard time beating this deck, because it runs everything we are weak to. Counterspells, targeted permanent destruction (especially chalice-proof decays!), mana acceleration, and jace. Unfortunately, this deck is very popular, and as long as Stax doesn't get the buff it needs*, the format is going to continue to be harsh to it.
*The buff would have to be a card (or cards) that does something a card in the deck already does, either more efficiently or powerfully. This deck is more inflexible than most, which is why it is so hard to swap new cards in without hurting your consistency.
To the guy having trouble with dredge, I'm not sure what to tell you. Stax hoses combo and dredge casually, just by playing the cards in your deck. I personally don't bother siding against any form of combo, preferring to use that space to fight off burn and control as well as I can. Here's to hoping that some great new combo comes about that takes legacy by storm. That will be our day to shine in the sun.
They are holding a major MAJOR tournament event for this set... Would they not make enough of a set to allow potential contenders to practice the format? I'm thinking this won't be as limited as people are thinking.
Yes there were times when he would win on his own, and there were times when he was dealt with as well (opposing therapies and such), or when he couldn't attack (through tarmogoyfs or when he's my only creature on board and I'm at low life vs decks with burn and gobbo guides). In these cases it was very nice to have a "2nd Thrun" that could actually add to the board. Being a green sun target is literally the crux here.
EDIT: Such "times" being throughout my playing of this deck, not just Sunday.
Therapy'ing away snapcasters and resolving Veteran Explorers seems like all you need to do against these delver decks. Swordsing the t1 delver helps too, or deeding it. Everything else is on the ground and has to attack you through our little onedrop, which sets you up for the rest of the game, while slowing them down even further.
2-1-1
Round 5: Maverick. Ugh. I had understood this to be a favorable MU. I didn't realize the synergies between Karakas and Linvala, Keeper of Silence, and Scryb Ranger and Dryad Arbor. All four of these being out, and me not drawing any therapys for a long time, made for a 35-minute game 1, which he eventually won by having enough exalted triggers to get Linvala past my Sigarda.
Game 2 was shaping up to be the same, and we ran out of time.
2-2-1
The rest I'm not going to bother with, except to say that the draw bracket is an awful place to be with Nic Fit. Stone blade? Draw. Opposing Nic Fit?(!) Obviously a draw. And of course a draw to a slow-player piloting u/r delver. >_< This deck can have a very hard time finishing matches, and that may be the most important thing I learned.
I'll post in a bit with some thoughts on card selection.
Multiple wins in sunday came from playing her with Thrun already out. There are few answers to that double-whammy in legacy.
I've tested the burn matchup extensively (one of the guys I rode with plays it), and everything comes down to the early game. If I can hit anything with discard, it slows them down significantly, let alone 2 cards. It isn't ideal (and I certainly don't bring it in against the likes of Maverick or other aggro decks), but it is certainly better than Maelstrom Pulse, which is what I took out.
Whether or not I side out Lily (against all agressive decks) depends on the outcome of game 1. If I'm not going first, I usually side her out if other things need to come in, as for me the majority of her value comes early and mid-game, which is when the enemy (who went first) is most likely to be able to immediately kill her.
You are correct in that the matchup is far easier if you weather the opening 4 turns. I did bring in the deed and ooze, but Damnation is far to slow for this matchup.
Should be able to finish the report today.
I side in Scavenging Ooze and the Hymns, but it doesn't matter as I lose game two to pretty bad luck on my part. Side question here: Would you keep this hand, game two, against a burn deck, on the play?
Scavenging Ooze
Kitchen Finks
Sensei's Divining Top
Savannah
Forest
Cabal Therapy
Hymn to Tourach
I kept it, assuming the top would find me a land in 3 turns. It did not. I actually still almost won off of the Ooze, but sadly you do still need 3 lands.
0-1
Round 2: This was the biggest mistake I made all day. I got paired up against one of the people I rode with, and we decided to ID and go get lunch. The unintended side-effect (which really I should have known would happen) was that I was pulled into the dreaded draw-bracket. This deck takes a while to win usually, and when paired against another "slow" deck, it can be very hard to finish a match.
0-1-1
Round 3: RUG Delver. Yes! I think this has to be our best matchup. As long as you deal with Delver of Secrets promptly (Swords to Plowshares) and chose the cards that give card advantage and/or card selection for therapy (Brainstorm, Ponder, Snapcaster Mage), you will have a hard time losing. In this match I won game one uncontested with a turn 3 Thrun, and game two I don't really remember outside of nailing 3 Tarmogoyfs with one pulse. The match was not close.
1-1-1
I'll report the rest later, gotta get some lunch.
Sideboard
Hymn to Tourachx3
Damnationx2
Extirpatex3
Pernicious Deedx1
Wheel of Sun and Moonx2
Scavenging Oozex1
Chokex3
This is the list I played at the Sunday Legacy Open in Nashville. I did not come away with the best result (2-2-4[!]), but I learned a lot about the deck and what you can and can't do against certain decks. I will share what I've learned hopefully after work today. Very excited, this deck has MANY good matchups.