"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I agree with ImAChampion's list except for Rift Elemental. It's done very good things in my Jhoira deck. Some things I'd add to the cut list area:
Clout of the Dominus I understand the card's purpose. I just don't like using a single slot to try and protect Jhoira. Don't protect her, just play her when you can suspend a couple of things.
Searing Wind It's fine, but I think there are better things you could play in the slot.
Bribery Why bother stealing your opponent's stuff? Just Obliterate it when it comes out.
If you do end up freeing up more than seven slots, I'd recommend adding Greater Gargadon and Kederekt Leviathan to your list of things to suspend.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I would drop the Luminous Angel mostly because it kinda sucks. Some other creatures you might want to consider that play nice with your general/theme are:
If you really want to focus on the angels and enchantments theme I'd try to move most of your spot removal into things like Oblivion Ring and Pacifism. Your mass removal should stay away from things that wipe out enchantments (like Akroma's Vengeance). Stick with ones that just hit creatures of things like Austere Command that allow you to choose what you're hitting. It also looks like you've got a lot of cards in here just for their cycling abilities. For the most part, you're probably better off with things like Mind's Eye or even Candles of Leng. Also, I'm not sure how impactful things like Tithe, Humble, and Reverse Damage are going to be. Also, I'd pull the Urzatron and replace it with some basic [/card]Plains[/card]. You're so unlikely to get it out it hardly seems worth it.
Hopefully that's helpful. Good luck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
@Kid Icarus: Extraplanar Lens is definitely something that I've thought about putting in. I think I'm hesitant though because I've seen it go horribly wrong. Thawing Glaciers isn't a bad idea. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one.
@Helspont: Braid of Fire has gone in and out a number of times since they removed mana burn. I guess it's probably better than Electropotence with the low number of creatures I've got.
@haoban3: That's a nice list, but it's exactly what I don't want to do. This is the one-dimensional style that Aitrus was talking about. I started off with something similar to this and changed to what I have now because it was just too boring to play.
@Mown: Now that's a great suggestion. I'll definietly make room for that.
Thanks to everyone for your comments. I'm going to take it all into consideration and come back with an updated list.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
remember, this is a casual format, you're suppose to have fun playing the game.
Exactly. While it is true that when Ashling is out the gameplay is pretty linear and dry. But, that's why there aren't just 99 lands in the deck. Since you can't always reliably get Ashling out with mana to spare for blowing her up. Until you can or need to do that there is plenty of fun to be had. For example, Mana Geyser into Molten Disaster with Hostility out and swinging in every direction for 3x the damage you would have done is tons of fun.
I titally agree that Ashling in and of herself isn't the most interesting general. What she is is a great reuseable tool. If you play the deck that way instead of constantly trying to get her out and blow her up then the deck is a whole lot more fun to play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Holy crap, 25 lands! I didn't even count. That's way too few. All of my EDH decks run 38-40 lands and that doesn't include accelerators or fixers. You've got some really high costed spells and I would go below 38 lands especially if you expect to utilize your general in any useful way.
If you're not planning on attacking much then the lifelink for attackers spells aren't going to be that great for you. And if that is going to be your plan I'd doubly reccommend adding Test of Endurance.
Spot removal may seem weak, but I originally built my deck with almost none. After getting beat in the face a number of times and wishing I had some spot removal I made room for some. If you can get the deck to work without sport removal, go for it. As far as my experience has gone, it's necessary.
As for the question of differing strategies, I think it's partly a matter of personal preference. Both strategies are viable, although the life gain route definitely has more synergistic generals like Treva, the Renewer, that give you access to cards like Ageless Entity. I personally like the beatdown route better mostly because that's the kind of player I am. I love smashing face and reveling in my opponent's helplessness. Not very :symw:. And yes, I've killed opponents through general damage with Eight-and-a-Half-Tails. I think that essentially the two strategies are built around the same idea: put out one or two dudes and use the general to protect them. I use my protection to beat face, you use it to enable combo.
The best advice I can give is to just test things out and see what works for you. Also, adding Admonition Angel and Archon of Justice is good advice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Secondly, Obelisk of Alara is an invalid card for your deck since it has mana symbols other than in its text box.
Now that that's out of the way, let's start by saying that Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is my first and favorite general. I've been playing and updating my deck continuously for about two years now, so I've got a lot of experience with him under my belt. And you're exactly right, LD does wrek the deck. I'm always puzzled when I see lists running Armageddon. Cards like Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer go a long way to feeding the deck's mana hunger. Another card that should probably be an auto-include in every mono colored deck is Journeyer's Kite.
As for deck strategy, I've seen two that use this general. One uses him to protect one or two big beaters and is primarily a combat-based deck. The other strategy is a life gain one which is a kind of mild combo deck. And each strategy usually has the other as a subtheme. It looks like you are trying for the life gain approach. If so, you can make life gain your win condition. In particular, Test of Endurance. Having this in the deck along with Felidar Sovereign gives you two different ways to win without ever attacking. If you end up going this route I'd reccommend adding some enchantment tutors like Enlightened Tutor or Idyllic Tutor and enchantment recursion like Mine Excavation or Auramancer.
Overall, I think you could use a little more spot removal. Wrath effects are great, but more often than not I just want to single out one threat and get rid of it. Things like Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Crib Swap, Reprisal, and even Afterlife do this pretty effeciently. White also has many effects that remove attackers like Devouring Light and Wing Shards. Of course, things like Faith's Fetters and Oblivion Ring are alway good. It's almost always better to remove a threat for good than to prevent the damage for a single turn.
And that leads us to the cards I don't like in this deck:
Intervention Pact: This card just isn't good. It doesn't matter that it gains you life. It's still bad.
Haazda Shield Mate: Also not a great card. Annoying, but in the end this slot could be taken up by something more impactful.
Pious Kitsune: Just because you're playing Eight-and-a-Half-Tails doesn't mean you need to play this card. Even with this general it's still not a very good card.
Saltblast: White has way better removal than this.
Hopefully that will give you enough to chew on to make your deck better. I'm not sure if you're doing a budget build so I'm not going to suggest things like Baneslayer Angel because they're just too freakin' expensive if you don't already have them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
This deck started out as my "every X burn spell" deck. That turned out to be a pretty terrible idea and the deck has evolved over the last year or so into what you see below. It is definitely geared towards multiplayer as it is incredibly weak in 1v1. Besides, Ashling seems like she was printed for the sole purpose of adding very interesting multiplayer politics to the game.
The whole theme of the deck is pretty simple: burn, steal, or smash everything. It's not very complicated to play and it's a ton of fun in a good sized group. Typically, the first few turns go something like this:
Turn 1: Mountain
Turn 2: Mountain, Ashling
Turn 3: Mountain, put counters on Ashling (last opponent's EOT)
Repeat trun 3 untip Ashling dies.
After that just burn, steal, and smash until Ashling is needed again.
I think I need to make room for a Basilisk Collar. It just seems too good with Ashling. I only own one copy right now and Eight-and-a-Half-Tails called dibs, but it works so much better here. The other card I'd love to put in here is Gauntlet of Might, but I can't justify spending that kind of money on a casual deck. I'd proxy it, but I have a problem with proxying cards that I don't actually own.
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Sprout Swarm, Sprout Swarm, Sprout Swarm! I'll say it again ... Sprout Swarm. It's the best token maker in my Savra deck and it's usually the first thing I will tutor for. And if you can also find a slot for Painter's Servant you can make sure that the sprouts will work with both sides of Savra's ability.
Also, if you can get ahold of a Doubling Season then find room for it. You've got enough token makers that it will benefit you tremendously.
Another great card I didn't see in your list is Abyssal Gatekeeper. I can't tell you how many times just having this guy on the board has saved me because nobody wanted to lose their guy by attacking into it. It's also a great political tool in multiplayer if someone wants their stuff to die.
Deathrender. I tried this out and it seems like it would be perfect for this deck, but sadly it isn't. There really aren't really enough big creatures in the deck to make it worth running.
Edit: @Prince Tristan: You're probably thinking of Gleancrawler, which would be a great addition to the deck.
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I think in the build that you have Plated Slagwurm would be fine to take out for Kodama of the North Tree. With Stonebrow as your general you reqlly want to maximize your fat trampler count. If you were running more "give all my guys trample" cards it would be a different story. Personally, I'm running Gruul War Plow, Brawn, Primal Rage, and Roughshod Mentor which lets me keep non-tramplers like Rumbling Slum in the deck and have them abuse the general.
Spawnwrithe is a bit small for EDH as far as ist stats are concerned. However, it's still a huge threat. You have to play it a little differently than the rest of your guys. It's not a big dumb fattie that you can just run out and smash with. You need to be a little more calculating than that (which I know is a little strange for a :symr::symg: deck). But, if you can get it through, even just one trample damage, it will at least function as a removal spell that replaces itself. Personally, I like it far better than Ohran Viper which, despite its great abilities, is definitely small for EDH.
Wild Pair may not be right for your deck. You've got quite a few creatures than the build I'm running and can't gaurantee that you'll always be able to make good use of it. My basic rule of thumb for my build is: if there's a creature that does it, it's better than a spell that does the same thing but never attacks. Also, it's more than just "cute", it's really powerful. Free spells are always good.
Finally, one more powerhouse trampler that I don't see in your list is Akroma, Angel of Fury. Wheere is she?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
One card that I think people overlook that is just made for a deck like this is Wild Pair. I run this in my Stonebrow deck and it's amazing. Who doesn't want to cast a Deus of Calamity and get a Vigor or Woodfall Primus for free?
A trampler I didn't see in your list that's deceptively threatening, especially in multiplayer, is Spawnwrithe. All you need is one defenseless opponent and you'll be makin' babies. And if you're running something like Fires of Yavimaya or In the Web of War alongside your multiple combat steps your spawn babies will get out of hand very quickly.
Also, I'm running a few more creatures than your build (40+) so I'm running Primordial Sage. I'm not sure if it would work for you, but it's worth a try.
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
This was the first EDH deck I built and I've been playing it for over a year and a half now. It's gone through quite a few changes since I first put it together. If anyone is interested in the changes that I've made to the deck since I created it you can check out my original archived thread here.
After getting very little out of Shards block for the deck, Zendikar and Worldwake have been very good to me for all my monocolored decks. This one has benefited more than most.
The basic idea is pretty simple: run out one or two big threats, equip them, and protect them. With that in mind, token makers and mass land destruction don't work very well for me. Luminarch Ascension is the exception to this rule. It's just too good to leave out. There's also a number of utility cards that allow me to abuse my general or the fact that all my creatures are white. The deck isn't designed specifically for either 1v1 or multiplayer, but works equally well in either.
And yes, I have animated Forbidding Watchtower, equipped Quietus Spike, and swung in to cleave someone's life total in twain ... multiple turns in a row. Sad pandas all around the table.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I also had a pre-Zendikar :symw::symu: aggro deck. It was pretty fast and very resiliant. The loss of both Kitchen Finks and Reveillark made me sad. But, there were enough goodies in Zendikar for me to keep the deck alive. Here's my list:
I never got around to updating the sideboard. The only two cards that remained there were four each of Vedalken Outlander and Meddling Mage.
The main focus of the deck is to get an active blade to swing in on turn 3. It worked very well pre-Zendikar, but I think it's just outclassed now by Vampires and Bushwhacker Boros (both of which I'm playing now BTW). Despite that, I still think this is a solid teir 2 deck. Being an aggro deck I don't think cards like Meddling Mage belong in the main deck. I also don't like Ponder. There are better ways to dig/reload. While Ponder does an adequite job of digging, it only replaces itself. After a DoJ you're going to need a little more than that to keep in the game.
I do like the idea of running Spell Pierce in the main deck as a three-of. Against aggro decks, control players will often tap out for the DoJ as soon as they can hoping that you've overextended and will have trouble recovering. It's a nice trick that I think is perfect for a deck like this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Schweizergarde is absolutely correct about Intimidation Bolt. Although it may seem counterintuitive, you actually want your opponent to attack you. The fewer blockers they have the more damage you're likely to push. With this type of deck your life total is completely irrelevant as long as it's above 0. Besides, any burn you've got should be able to go to the dome. I've had many situations where my opponent swept my poard when they were at 10+, which was fine since I had 10+ points of face burning happiness in my hand. That wouldn't have been possible with Intimidation Bolts.
And I don't mean to beat the subject to death, but on the Elite Vanguard vs Plated Geopede subject I have a few more thoughts. First, my local meta has absolutely zero Jund players. Even so, I still don't think this necessitates the inclusion of a card that is weaker than others. There's plenty of great Ranger targets without running Vanguard. I almost always search up Steppe Lynx and Goblin Bushwhacker with my Rangers and rarely play them on the same turn I fetched them. I'm perfectly satisfied blocking with my face and winning the next turn rather than overcommitting and losing.
As for arguments against Plated Geopede, I understand that it does seem slow. It doesn't hit until turn 3 and only for 5. Of course, if you had a Steppe Lynx on trun 1 that should put your opponent to 7. To me, that's worth the "slower" clock. I think that if you're not willing to commit to the landfall theme completely then you probably shouldn't play any Geopedes at all. All or nothing, right? In that case you'd probably be better off with Cerodon Yearling. It doesn't have the explosive potential of Geopede, buut it's solid and consistent.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
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As for Leyline of the Void I wouldn't run it. There's no sense in crippling your own deck just to cripple someone else's. If you want graveyard hate why not use Withered Wretch and Scrabbling Claws instead. That way you can run things like Puppeteer Clique and Oversold Cemetery.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
If you do end up freeing up more than seven slots, I'd recommend adding Greater Gargadon and Kederekt Leviathan to your list of things to suspend.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Angels:
Hopefully that's helpful. Good luck.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
@Helspont: Braid of Fire has gone in and out a number of times since they removed mana burn. I guess it's probably better than Electropotence with the low number of creatures I've got.
@haoban3: That's a nice list, but it's exactly what I don't want to do. This is the one-dimensional style that Aitrus was talking about. I started off with something similar to this and changed to what I have now because it was just too boring to play.
@Mown: Now that's a great suggestion. I'll definietly make room for that.
Thanks to everyone for your comments. I'm going to take it all into consideration and come back with an updated list.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Exactly. While it is true that when Ashling is out the gameplay is pretty linear and dry. But, that's why there aren't just 99 lands in the deck. Since you can't always reliably get Ashling out with mana to spare for blowing her up. Until you can or need to do that there is plenty of fun to be had. For example, Mana Geyser into Molten Disaster with Hostility out and swinging in every direction for 3x the damage you would have done is tons of fun.
I titally agree that Ashling in and of herself isn't the most interesting general. What she is is a great reuseable tool. If you play the deck that way instead of constantly trying to get her out and blow her up then the deck is a whole lot more fun to play.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
What!? When did that happen? Well, I guess I need to fix my deck before I play it again.
Two other cards you may want to look at are Nether Traitor and Attrition.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
If you're not planning on attacking much then the lifelink for attackers spells aren't going to be that great for you. And if that is going to be your plan I'd doubly reccommend adding Test of Endurance.
Spot removal may seem weak, but I originally built my deck with almost none. After getting beat in the face a number of times and wishing I had some spot removal I made room for some. If you can get the deck to work without sport removal, go for it. As far as my experience has gone, it's necessary.
As for the question of differing strategies, I think it's partly a matter of personal preference. Both strategies are viable, although the life gain route definitely has more synergistic generals like Treva, the Renewer, that give you access to cards like Ageless Entity. I personally like the beatdown route better mostly because that's the kind of player I am. I love smashing face and reveling in my opponent's helplessness. Not very :symw:. And yes, I've killed opponents through general damage with Eight-and-a-Half-Tails. I think that essentially the two strategies are built around the same idea: put out one or two dudes and use the general to protect them. I use my protection to beat face, you use it to enable combo.
The best advice I can give is to just test things out and see what works for you. Also, adding Admonition Angel and Archon of Justice is good advice.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Secondly, Obelisk of Alara is an invalid card for your deck since it has mana symbols other than in its text box.
Now that that's out of the way, let's start by saying that Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is my first and favorite general. I've been playing and updating my deck continuously for about two years now, so I've got a lot of experience with him under my belt. And you're exactly right, LD does wrek the deck. I'm always puzzled when I see lists running Armageddon. Cards like Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer go a long way to feeding the deck's mana hunger. Another card that should probably be an auto-include in every mono colored deck is Journeyer's Kite.
As for deck strategy, I've seen two that use this general. One uses him to protect one or two big beaters and is primarily a combat-based deck. The other strategy is a life gain one which is a kind of mild combo deck. And each strategy usually has the other as a subtheme. It looks like you are trying for the life gain approach. If so, you can make life gain your win condition. In particular, Test of Endurance. Having this in the deck along with Felidar Sovereign gives you two different ways to win without ever attacking. If you end up going this route I'd reccommend adding some enchantment tutors like Enlightened Tutor or Idyllic Tutor and enchantment recursion like Mine Excavation or Auramancer.
Overall, I think you could use a little more spot removal. Wrath effects are great, but more often than not I just want to single out one threat and get rid of it. Things like Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Crib Swap, Reprisal, and even Afterlife do this pretty effeciently. White also has many effects that remove attackers like Devouring Light and Wing Shards. Of course, things like Faith's Fetters and Oblivion Ring are alway good. It's almost always better to remove a threat for good than to prevent the damage for a single turn.
And that leads us to the cards I don't like in this deck:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
The whole theme of the deck is pretty simple: burn, steal, or smash everything. It's not very complicated to play and it's a ton of fun in a good sized group. Typically, the first few turns go something like this:
Turn 1: Mountain
Turn 2: Mountain, Ashling
Turn 3: Mountain, put counters on Ashling (last opponent's EOT)
Repeat trun 3 untip Ashling dies.
After that just burn, steal, and smash until Ashling is needed again.
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
Creatures
1 Adamaro, First to Desire
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Avatar of Fury
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Capricious Efreet
1 Deathforge Shaman
1 Duplicant
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Hostility
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Obsidian Fireheart
1 Rakka Mar
1 Rorix Bladewing
1 Viashino Heretic
Spells
1 Aftershock
1 Banefire
1 Chain Reaction
1 Cinder Cloud
1 Comet Storm
1 Demonfire
1 Earthquake
1 Fanning the Flames
1 Fissure
1 Flowstone Slide
1 Grab the Reins
1 Insurrection
1 Jaws of Stone
1 Lavaball Trap
1 Mana Geyser
1 Molten Disaster
1 Pulse of the Forge
1 Reiterate
1 Ruination
1 Seismic Strike
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Shivan Meteor
1 Shunt
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Word of Seizing
1 Blood Moon
1 Electropotence
1 Vicious Shadows
Artifacts
1 Candles of Leng
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Gemstone Array
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Guardian Idol
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mind Stone
1 Mind's Eye
1 Mirari
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Worn Powerstone
Planeswalkers
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Chandra Nalaar
Lands
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Keldon Megaliths
1 Kher Keep
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Scrying Sheets
32 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Also, if you can get ahold of a Doubling Season then find room for it. You've got enough token makers that it will benefit you tremendously.
Another great card I didn't see in your list is Abyssal Gatekeeper. I can't tell you how many times just having this guy on the board has saved me because nobody wanted to lose their guy by attacking into it. It's also a great political tool in multiplayer if someone wants their stuff to die.
Deathrender. I tried this out and it seems like it would be perfect for this deck, but sadly it isn't. There really aren't really enough big creatures in the deck to make it worth running.
Edit: @Prince Tristan: You're probably thinking of Gleancrawler, which would be a great addition to the deck.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Spawnwrithe is a bit small for EDH as far as ist stats are concerned. However, it's still a huge threat. You have to play it a little differently than the rest of your guys. It's not a big dumb fattie that you can just run out and smash with. You need to be a little more calculating than that (which I know is a little strange for a :symr::symg: deck). But, if you can get it through, even just one trample damage, it will at least function as a removal spell that replaces itself. Personally, I like it far better than Ohran Viper which, despite its great abilities, is definitely small for EDH.
Wild Pair may not be right for your deck. You've got quite a few creatures than the build I'm running and can't gaurantee that you'll always be able to make good use of it. My basic rule of thumb for my build is: if there's a creature that does it, it's better than a spell that does the same thing but never attacks. Also, it's more than just "cute", it's really powerful. Free spells are always good.
And yes, Fires of Yavimaya is pretty underwhelming in EDH. However, In the Web of War is much better and not many people know about it.
Finally, one more powerhouse trampler that I don't see in your list is Akroma, Angel of Fury. Wheere is she?
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
A trampler I didn't see in your list that's deceptively threatening, especially in multiplayer, is Spawnwrithe. All you need is one defenseless opponent and you'll be makin' babies. And if you're running something like Fires of Yavimaya or In the Web of War alongside your multiple combat steps your spawn babies will get out of hand very quickly.
Also, I'm running a few more creatures than your build (40+) so I'm running Primordial Sage. I'm not sure if it would work for you, but it's worth a try.
Edit: Wait a minute. Where's Kodama of the North Tree?
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
After getting very little out of Shards block for the deck, Zendikar and Worldwake have been very good to me for all my monocolored decks. This one has benefited more than most.
The basic idea is pretty simple: run out one or two big threats, equip them, and protect them. With that in mind, token makers and mass land destruction don't work very well for me. Luminarch Ascension is the exception to this rule. It's just too good to leave out. There's also a number of utility cards that allow me to abuse my general or the fact that all my creatures are white. The deck isn't designed specifically for either 1v1 or multiplayer, but works equally well in either.
So, here's the latest iteration:
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Creatures
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Admonition Angel
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Archon of Justice
1 Archon of Redemption
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Battlegrace Angel
1 Cloudchaser Kestrel
1 Dawn Elemental
1 Felidar Sovereign
1 Glory
1 Guardian Seraph
1 Karmic Guide
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Loxodon Gatekeeper
1 Pentarch Paladin
1 Pristine Angel
1 Reveillark
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
1 Sanctum Gargoyle
1 Stonecloaker
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Twilight Shepherd
1 Windborn Muse
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Afterlife
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Austere Command
1 Condemn
1 Crib Swap
1 Devouring Light
1 Mine Excavation
1 Path to Exile
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Reinforcements (2)
1 Reprisal
1 Return to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wing Shards
1 Wrath of God
Enchantments
1 Circle of Protection: White
1 Crackdown
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Light from Within
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mind's Eye
1 Quietus Spike
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Forbidding Watchtower
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kor Haven
1 Mistveil Plains
1 New Benalia
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Sejiri Steppe
28 Snow-Covered Plains
Notably absent:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: I own one copy and it's in another deck ... that I almost never play. That's a really bad reason. I should put her in.
Iona, Shield of Emeria: One word: Bribery.
Eternal Dragon and Exalted Angel: I don't own them so they're not in here.
And yes, I have animated Forbidding Watchtower, equipped Quietus Spike, and swung in to cleave someone's life total in twain ... multiple turns in a row. Sad pandas all around the table.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
4 Esper Stormblade
4 Bant Sureblade
4 Deft Duelist
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Kor Aeronaut
4 Path to Exile
4 Conqueror's Pledge
4 Brave the Elements
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Ajani Goldmane
Land/Mana Sources
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
12 Plains
I never got around to updating the sideboard. The only two cards that remained there were four each of Vedalken Outlander and Meddling Mage.
The main focus of the deck is to get an active blade to swing in on turn 3. It worked very well pre-Zendikar, but I think it's just outclassed now by Vampires and Bushwhacker Boros (both of which I'm playing now BTW). Despite that, I still think this is a solid teir 2 deck. Being an aggro deck I don't think cards like Meddling Mage belong in the main deck. I also don't like Ponder. There are better ways to dig/reload. While Ponder does an adequite job of digging, it only replaces itself. After a DoJ you're going to need a little more than that to keep in the game.
I do like the idea of running Spell Pierce in the main deck as a three-of. Against aggro decks, control players will often tap out for the DoJ as soon as they can hoping that you've overextended and will have trouble recovering. It's a nice trick that I think is perfect for a deck like this.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
And I don't mean to beat the subject to death, but on the Elite Vanguard vs Plated Geopede subject I have a few more thoughts. First, my local meta has absolutely zero Jund players. Even so, I still don't think this necessitates the inclusion of a card that is weaker than others. There's plenty of great Ranger targets without running Vanguard. I almost always search up Steppe Lynx and Goblin Bushwhacker with my Rangers and rarely play them on the same turn I fetched them. I'm perfectly satisfied blocking with my face and winning the next turn rather than overcommitting and losing.
As for arguments against Plated Geopede, I understand that it does seem slow. It doesn't hit until turn 3 and only for 5. Of course, if you had a Steppe Lynx on trun 1 that should put your opponent to 7. To me, that's worth the "slower" clock. I think that if you're not willing to commit to the landfall theme completely then you probably shouldn't play any Geopedes at all. All or nothing, right? In that case you'd probably be better off with Cerodon Yearling. It doesn't have the explosive potential of Geopede, buut it's solid and consistent.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon