Hey, folks. I've been following the thread for a while since I've been interested in building a deck along these lines ever since we had Eidolon of Blossoms spoiled. So, before last night, I proxied up Rorak_Kuroda's list from page 2 to start testing out, except I switched one of the Boon Satyrs with a third Herald of Torment. I only got one match-up tested between trading, drafting and EDH (and my store's Constructed format was Modern last night), but I'll write up my findings since there isn't too much on this one in the thread.
Naya Hexproof
The match-up is kinda hit-or-miss. Most of our removal, aside from Devour Flesh, can't really interact with their creatures. So, we have to grab stuff out of their hand. The matches basically came down to if I had the early Maggot or Thoughtseize to prevent the threats from coming down at all. The games where I didn't have the early disruption were basically already lost. The best game I had was a 7 of Forest, Guildgate, Overgrown Tomb, Double Thoughtseize, Double Brain Maggot. On the play. That game was over before it even began. To add something in to the Abrupt Decay/Golgari Charm debate, it's somewhat relevant in this match-up. Golgari Charm hits all of their enchantments and can potentially kill their Gladecover Scouts before they get suited up. Abrupt Decay can hit all of their Enchantments, Voice of Resurgence (and Token), as well as Ajani, Caller of the Pride. I feel like Abrupt Decay is a little bit better here, since you have to have the Golgari Charm ready to go on the Turn 2 or 3 when they start suiting up their Scouts.
So, that's what I've found. I'm really liking this deck, and I'm looking forward to trying it out at FNM next week.
Could this be the "Buy-a-Cube" thing that some people have posed interest in? An alternate game mode, combined in to a cube experience could actually be pretty awesome.
We'll need to wait from more official rulings once Born of the Gods is actually out, but here's what I know:
When I first saw Ephara + Torpor Orb happen on Cockatrice, I went to the judge IRC to check on the interaction. The IRC said that there's no interaction, and it makes sense: The creature entering doesn't directly cause the trigger. The Ability simply checks to see if something is true (A creature entered under your control last turn), and if it is, it triggers (Intervening If Clause).
As for the second, pretty sure it's the same thing, just worded differently. "If you had another creature enter under your control last turn" just reads better than the other.
Hey, I've been doing a little messing around with this deck this evening. I figure that because we're running Idyllic Tutor and drawing a bunch of cards, we can sort of make the deck a tool box. Because each of our Hate cards fills the same spot on the curve as any other card we can take out, we can just mainboard, say, one Stony Silence and one Rest in Peace.
When the game gets a little later and you have a bunch of enchantments and an enchantress or two, the deck becomes a stupidly powerful engine that just keeps going and going, almost like a combo deck. I haven't tested it too much, but I'd try running Silence in the main to either psuedo-timewalk the opponent or to protect your self when you're 'going off', digging for a second Nykthos and the Emrakul.
If I were to splash Red, I'd cut 9 Plains for 4 Arid Mesa, 4 Sacred Foundry and 1 Mountain. Not sure what I'd put in with the Splash. Chained to the Rocks wants you to make sure that you have one of those nine lands before casting it, so it might be a little iffy. When compared to just how quickly you can pump out Angels with a Sigil+Enchantress+Nykthos engine going, any of the Goblin Assault/Assemble the Legion cards just feel really slow.
I'm also considering putting in Greater Auramancy with a few 1-2 cost Auras that can both protect our Enchantress and shut down the opponent (Chained to the Rocks, Gelid Shackles, Hyena Umbra).
War's Toll seems like a sweet card since we don't mind them attacking with creatures they can't attack with (xD), and making them tap all their lands so that they can't pay for Suppression Field, Ghostly Prison, and Sphere of Safety seems like a sickening combo.
I really like the idea of this deck and would love to build something like it to take to Richmond.
On War's Toll: An effect can never force a player to pay a cost, so it works against the Prison/Sphere, because they aren't forced to pay the cost to attack if they don't want to.
Because the deck seems to be more of a "Big Mana" white deck, I think I'd personally play Assemble the Legion as an alternate win-con if you splash Red. Mostly just because Rise of the Hobgobs and Goblin assault are both hit by Abrupt Decay. But if you can protect Assault, it could easily end games.
Give a LOT more use for one of the more useless cards in EDH: Leyline of Singularity. If anyone wants to make that sort of combo happen, I'd love to see it.
Well, if you activate the Sundial as soon as your dragon hits the board, it'll simply be exiled at the beginning of the next turn's end step.
However, if you wait until the current turn's End Step, the trigger will go on the stack. Ending the Turn then will exile the trigger, leaving your scaly friend on the battlefield.
Can someone please tell me WHY Karametra will be a game changer as a general?
So many people are saying that it's the next best thing, but all it really does is make you puke out all the lands as you play creatures. So either your deck is G/W with basically no ramp, a manadorks.dec, or a really hopeful goodstuff.dec.
It gives you lands when you play creatures, making everything a Farhaven Elf. I guess I'm packing a lot more Torpor Orb now.
Torpor Orb wont do anything here; It's a Cast trigger. Regardless of whether the creature is countered or not, you're up a Basic Forest or Plains, or any land that has either of those types. And you can land her pretty darn quickly in the right deck. It wont ramp nearly as fast as Azusa, but it opens up a ton more possibilities.
We had a 5 player game that went on for a while. I'd noticed early on that the Jeleva player had discarded Rise of the Dark Realms, while I was holding Memory Plunder in my hand for most of the game, waiting for the right time to snatch it to get a metric crap-ton of creatures. Eventually he tries to Spelltwine it. I take a moment to read the card and see that it would exile the Rise, so I counter it. Then, on my next turn someone tries to stop me from doing something, so as a 4-mana Counterspell, I Memory Plunder the Rise, getting an Eternal Witness for Force of Will.... And enough creatures to destroy everyone on my next turn.
Beseech the Queen, Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor and Increasing Ambition grab Doomsday, Temporal Mastery (+Brainstorm/Scroll Rack) and Time Warp to try and end the game.
Lim-Dul's Vault finds anything, plus it sets up Miracle on Temporal Mastery and Devastation Tide.
Mystical Teachings finds Counterspells, usually Force of Will and Pact of Negation.
Trinket Mage finds Expedition Map, Grafdigger's Cage, Sol Ring, Top and Elixir of Immortality.
For people saying the Brother's War isn't relevant anymore, it's actually still really relevant. If you lead off the series with the Artifacts cycle, you get an amazing build-up, showing how Planeswalkers unlock their powers to begin with...
As long as the Planeswalker movie isn't as boring and long-winded as the book, it'd be fine. Then after Bloodlines, you jump straight in to Rath and Storm, then for the Weatherlight saga, have about a block per movie (or hell, two movies, if you're adventurous)...
Or you just start on Rath and Storm and leave everyone with no backstory. That works, too.
Memory Plunder is just an amazing card. I've used it as everything from an instant-speed Wrath, to an instant-speed Demonic Tutor to find an answer or counterspell...
Heck, I've even used it to cast a Bribery at the end of someone's turn to snag their Jin Gitaxias and make them discard their hand.
It has so many uses you can't really even compare it to Spelltwine. The only place where it should be an issue is generating the four colored mana to cast it.
Naya Hexproof
The match-up is kinda hit-or-miss. Most of our removal, aside from Devour Flesh, can't really interact with their creatures. So, we have to grab stuff out of their hand. The matches basically came down to if I had the early Maggot or Thoughtseize to prevent the threats from coming down at all. The games where I didn't have the early disruption were basically already lost. The best game I had was a 7 of Forest, Guildgate, Overgrown Tomb, Double Thoughtseize, Double Brain Maggot. On the play. That game was over before it even began. To add something in to the Abrupt Decay/Golgari Charm debate, it's somewhat relevant in this match-up. Golgari Charm hits all of their enchantments and can potentially kill their Gladecover Scouts before they get suited up. Abrupt Decay can hit all of their Enchantments, Voice of Resurgence (and Token), as well as Ajani, Caller of the Pride. I feel like Abrupt Decay is a little bit better here, since you have to have the Golgari Charm ready to go on the Turn 2 or 3 when they start suiting up their Scouts.
So, that's what I've found. I'm really liking this deck, and I'm looking forward to trying it out at FNM next week.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
When I first saw Ephara + Torpor Orb happen on Cockatrice, I went to the judge IRC to check on the interaction. The IRC said that there's no interaction, and it makes sense: The creature entering doesn't directly cause the trigger. The Ability simply checks to see if something is true (A creature entered under your control last turn), and if it is, it triggers (Intervening If Clause).
As for the second, pretty sure it's the same thing, just worded differently. "If you had another creature enter under your control last turn" just reads better than the other.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
When the game gets a little later and you have a bunch of enchantments and an enchantress or two, the deck becomes a stupidly powerful engine that just keeps going and going, almost like a combo deck. I haven't tested it too much, but I'd try running Silence in the main to either psuedo-timewalk the opponent or to protect your self when you're 'going off', digging for a second Nykthos and the Emrakul.
Here's what I've come up with:
4 Mesa Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Land (23)
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
19 Plains
Enchantments (26)
4 Suppression Field
3 Runed Halo
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Sphere of Safety
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
3 Blind Obedience
Instants (3)
3 Silence
Sorceries (3)
3 Idyllic Tutor
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Stony Silence
3 Open the Vaults
4 Dawn Charm
2 Aura of Silence
3 Privileged Position
If I were to splash Red, I'd cut 9 Plains for 4 Arid Mesa, 4 Sacred Foundry and 1 Mountain. Not sure what I'd put in with the Splash. Chained to the Rocks wants you to make sure that you have one of those nine lands before casting it, so it might be a little iffy. When compared to just how quickly you can pump out Angels with a Sigil+Enchantress+Nykthos engine going, any of the Goblin Assault/Assemble the Legion cards just feel really slow.
I'm also considering putting in Greater Auramancy with a few 1-2 cost Auras that can both protect our Enchantress and shut down the opponent (Chained to the Rocks, Gelid Shackles, Hyena Umbra).
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
I really like the idea of this deck and would love to build something like it to take to Richmond.
On War's Toll: An effect can never force a player to pay a cost, so it works against the Prison/Sphere, because they aren't forced to pay the cost to attack if they don't want to.
Because the deck seems to be more of a "Big Mana" white deck, I think I'd personally play Assemble the Legion as an alternate win-con if you splash Red. Mostly just because Rise of the Hobgobs and Goblin assault are both hit by Abrupt Decay. But if you can protect Assault, it could easily end games.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
However, if you wait until the current turn's End Step, the trigger will go on the stack. Ending the Turn then will exile the trigger, leaving your scaly friend on the battlefield.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Torpor Orb wont do anything here; It's a Cast trigger. Regardless of whether the creature is countered or not, you're up a Basic Forest or Plains, or any land that has either of those types. And you can land her pretty darn quickly in the right deck. It wont ramp nearly as fast as Azusa, but it opens up a ton more possibilities.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Good times, good times.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Also, Strictly Better Infest is Strictly better than Infest. Not too much more, but Uncommon is really nice.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Beseech the Queen, Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor and Increasing Ambition grab Doomsday, Temporal Mastery (+Brainstorm/Scroll Rack) and Time Warp to try and end the game.
Lim-Dul's Vault finds anything, plus it sets up Miracle on Temporal Mastery and Devastation Tide.
Mystical Teachings finds Counterspells, usually Force of Will and Pact of Negation.
Trinket Mage finds Expedition Map, Grafdigger's Cage, Sol Ring, Top and Elixir of Immortality.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
As long as the Planeswalker movie isn't as boring and long-winded as the book, it'd be fine. Then after Bloodlines, you jump straight in to Rath and Storm, then for the Weatherlight saga, have about a block per movie (or hell, two movies, if you're adventurous)...
Or you just start on Rath and Storm and leave everyone with no backstory. That works, too.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
Heck, I've even used it to cast a Bribery at the end of someone's turn to snag their Jin Gitaxias and make them discard their hand.
It has so many uses you can't really even compare it to Spelltwine. The only place where it should be an issue is generating the four colored mana to cast it.
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment
I'm sure there are a ton of cards that share names with Bands just because of common phrases or objects (like Rolling Stone or Iron Maiden).
Casual Player, Hobbyist Designer.
Percussionist, Composer, Banjo Player
Current Decks:
BG RockStars (Enchantress Midrange)
Modern:
GWU Enduring Ideal
EDH/Commander -
GW Krond, Enchanter
UB Vela, of Doomsday
RG Angry Barbie
WUG Friendly Hugs on Hippo Wings
WBR Oros, the Experiment