Please don't flame me too hard but was discussed in the hydra thread to play heartless summoning. T2 summoning, t3 zta, t4 whatever you want.
Since you aren't playing a lot of mana dorks you don't have to worry about heartless killing them. Also allows you to add black for your own returns and removal.
You know, that's actually a pretty good idea. I've always been a fan of heartless summoning, hadn't considered it for Zhur-taa Ancient. The tempo strategy would require me to draw at least 1 dork/1 farseek or 2 dorks, whereas heartless summoning is a 1 card investment.
If all works out well, we'd have access to 8 mana on turn 4 and be able to cast a 10 drop - turn 5 worldspine wurm anyone?
However, RUG Zhur-Taa Ancient is a different beast altogether.
You could play white instead of blue, and play 4 Silence. That way, you could make sure YOU get the first use of the ancient ;p
The main problem I have with Silence effects is that your opponent can respond to them rather easily. and you can't silence as a response to a spell, as it doesn't stop resolution, only casting. If you silence them/aurelia's fury, they'll just sphinx's revelation in response. Silence is kind of a terrible spell in a lot of ways - it'd only be useful against Jund perhaps, as MOST of their power-house spells are sorcery speed. But then they'd probably just remove the zhur-taa ancient.
That being said, I did make a naya version of this deck originally(with Aurelia's Fury) and it just wasn't very effective.
I have however considered Fog-type affects, and also counterspells. Counterspells such as Counterflux and Plasm Capture seem to be the most useful so far, as they are both very GOOD against the decks that can utilize all of the mana Zhur-Taa Ancient provides. But it requires you to cast him with enough mana open for a counter, which can be tricky.
Have you considered Yeva or Savage Summoning to flash him in and get your x spells first.
I'e been considering a RUG Primespeaker build with him for a while and just haven't been motivated to really build one up. You get a lot of the best stuff in the format to go with him. Chandra is kinda a waste in the build. I would make sure I have ways to flash, Acidic Slime and plenty of X spells and bombs (craterhoof is great after a flashed ZTA)
Yes, I have considered Yeva, Savage Summoning, and Primespeaker Zegana. I'm still deciding whether or not I want to use Primespeaker - she is very good, but she needs more creatures on which to trigger. I'm using alchemist's refuge as of now to flash in Zhur-taa Ancient- I often find myself being able to do so by turn 5-6 because of Farseek, Arbor Elf, Ranger's Path, and Urban Evolution.
The issue is that those cards are more Midrange and rely on more creature heavy decks. I would definitely use them if I were doing the creature version. That being said, if I were playing the creature version, i would not play Chandra.
Acidic Slime was in my sideboard for this deck initially, even with it being a spell deck - but I decided to cut him in lieu of bramblecrush. I can use Chandra to copy it, it's lower on the curve, and is best against control since they often use many non-creature permanents.
Have you considered Frenzied Tilling? It helps you ramp and helps keep your opponents mana in check. Something to consider if your commited to a Zhur Taa Ancient deck. Also, no Clan's Defiance?
Clan Defiance is one of those cards which is excellent, but is 4x better off the sideboard, particularly against Midrange decks. Playing it off the sideboard always gives me the advantage of knowing if they're using flying creatures (i.e. Restoration angel, Angel of Thune, etc), maximizing it's effectiveness. And it's not particularly effective against aggro because of the cost. That 1 mana can make all the difference.
However, once the format has rotated, I -will- be playing Clan Defiance mainboard.
Frenzied Tilling is actually a great idea, but I feel like I'd want to play it in lieu of either Ranger's Path or Urban Evolution. I might sideboard it, as it's probably very effective against greedy curves. (and copying it with Chandra seems kind of broken) It will also be a serious consideration for mainboard post rotation.
So I've been testing a RUG control deck that makes use of Zhur-taa Ancient, and I thought I might try to get some opinions on the build I've been working on.
I'm well aware that he is bad against opposing x-cost spells, I've even given careful consideration to the matchups where he is a liability, and even planned ahead by preparing "traps" for those kinds of decks, Although he will always be boarded out against Jund Midrange and any variant of that deck.
I'm welcome to constructive criticism, obviously, but I don't need to hear about how bad Zhur-Taa is against sphinx's revelation, rakdo's return, kessig wolf run, etc. Besides having heard it a million times, it is a risk of playing the card in maindeck, and I'm prepared to deal with the consequences of a bad G1.
@Cetan; thanks for the advice. I'm switching back to the original deck as Thragtusk wasn't getting there for me. I'm not sure that midrange is my thing, but if I look back to this deck at a later time I will follow your advice.
I'm trying this new decklist out at standard thursday. would like to have 3-4 rhox faithmender but for now I'm not getting too greedy. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.
Point of the deck is to accomplish lifelink/lifegain, double strike, and trample whenever possible and preferably combined. Outclass the opponent with life and high damage that gets through.
Ran my deck posted above at FNM, went 3-0 I made one last minute adjustment -2 thalia for +2 oblivion ring.
Round one faced izzet control, went 2-0, his deck never popped and when it did he focused on too many of my early threats and loses to life gain/rancor on anything.
Round two was vs a very poorly built G/B deck that didn't do much, 2-0.
Round three U/W mill/control, this was probably the hardest match of the night. Lucky for me he didn't have any terminus in his deck and only had to worry about verdict. He almost milled me out g1 getting three 0 drops from jace 3.0. Game two was a little smoother and just had a great tempo.
Played the 3rd place deck for fun, was aussie control (screw that American control :P) went 2-1 which was another great matchup but I ended up with great tempo, and without dorks or fetch I don't end up with dead cards from top decking, just more threats or answers to their threats and you push past everything. Sorry not the best report but this is probably one of the strongest decks I've played in this standard.
I made a few adjustments I plan on testing out the next couple weeks, modern is next weeks FNM.
Okay, so you don't like the dorks or farseek. i agree, they've been giving me some trouble, I kind of hate farseek and dorks to be honest, but there's literally nothing to do on turn one, and that bothers me. you didn't struggle with this issue?
What I may end up doing is cutting farseek and just sticking to 6 dorks, I kind of like it that way and farseek has been irritating me to no end. It's just that 24 lands is sooo many, but I may be able to get by with just 22-23 and 6 dorks for 1 drops. dryad militant is kind of aggressive and shuts down reanimator, kinda makes me wanna try it.
okay. the most recent decklist cut wolfir and flail entirely, if you look up thar. flail was giving me trouble, wolfir was too high on the curve, just like primal hunter, who I traded out. I've been trying triumph of ferocity to avoid top-decking, it works really well against control decks.
Won standard tournament last night with this deck, but I cut the wild defiance at the last minute. It was a good choice. Running with the original configuration worked very well. The deck is too fast, and fencing ace has mad speed and damage. I sealed 2 games on turn 3 last night with revenge of the hunted for the miracle. Against a very good R/W/U control deck I went 2-0, he couldn't deal with the fast damage, and Sigarda won me my second match against him. Hexproof from multiple sources in green aggro is amazing.
You guys were right about Sigarda. Thanks again!
That being said, this deck is 100% viable, and I have the numbers to prove it.
Mostly cause they're not humans, and because they scream to be used against control decks.
Think they're worth playing mainboard? In testing they tend to get in the way of the main strategy, which I'm often willing to sacrifice in favor of a slightly slower but more consistent beatdown. Which is why I sideboard them.
In mirror against a G/W beatdown running loxodons I didn't run them. I handled every one I came across.
Why Growing Ranks? I get that it's a Selesnya deck but you're not getting any ETB with that, and it's super slow.
You could put in another acidic slime in place of at least one growing ranks. Conjurer's closet is a little slow without more mana ramp, you want that ETB triggering ASAP if that's your deck's strategy. Get another Restoration Angel too.
Gatecreeper is crap in constructed unless with Axebane Guardian.
You should definitely consider 3-4 Centaur Healer, he is excellent.
Fiend hunter could also be a consideration. Cloudshift BREAKS fiend hunter against creature heavy decks.
One thing I did notice you are missing is more mana ramp for all them tasty fatties.
Give farseek or ranger's path a try, I don't think you'll regret it.
If that's not your bag borderland ranger is way better than gatecreeper, hands down.
Alright, it's that time again. I'm getting ready for standard again and my meta is so competitive I decided it's time to take humans for a new spin.
Trying out Wild Defiance today. What do you guys think about wild defiance?
I think it's scary fast in the way wild beastmaster is without having to worry about summoning sickness,
and it's fairly defensive against your average R/B running searing spear/pillar of flame.
Check out this decklist. What's missing, what do I need? I call it Selesnya Gunslingers.
New Updates. I took this deck to standard at the local shop. I made it to 3rd, out of 17 players with this deck. It works. It's fast. and it handled mirror match against sublime/silverblade like a champ.
Here's the most recently updated decklist(Post tournament, I picked up some good trades for it)
Ranger's guile won me a game against red control with just 1 on sideboard. Loved it, it's a great card, sticking with it until I get something better. I picked up a second Ajani so it's been added to the decklist as well. Elite inquisitor will be a haus in this deck against zombies/vampires.
Ajani won me two games. double strike/flying costs nothing with ajani once he's played, and a giant growth + any other buff is pretty much game.
I actually miracled revenge one time.(FTW) Otherwise it was useless and caused me to mulligan a lot as it kept mystically showing up in my hand as though it wanted to be there in a 20 land deck.
Wild Beastmaster was good as expected. Overwhelming numbers with him put me on the offensive enough to shut down aggro and damage-based creature control.
I got horrible draws against reanimator, but I didn't mulligan like I should have, 3 thragtusk back to back is not something this deck can deal with, even though i removed the first with selesnya charm.
Jund Midrange wrecked me. I did wallop him for 12 damage on turn 3 in one game but he answered everything I had after that with creature control. Not an unexpected outcome, I was okay with this loss.
G/W Sublime Beatdown. I answered everything he had with instant speed buffing, and that won me both games. Giant Growth FTW.
You know, that's actually a pretty good idea. I've always been a fan of heartless summoning, hadn't considered it for Zhur-taa Ancient. The tempo strategy would require me to draw at least 1 dork/1 farseek or 2 dorks, whereas heartless summoning is a 1 card investment.
If all works out well, we'd have access to 8 mana on turn 4 and be able to cast a 10 drop - turn 5 worldspine wurm anyone?
However, RUG Zhur-Taa Ancient is a different beast altogether.
The main problem I have with Silence effects is that your opponent can respond to them rather easily. and you can't silence as a response to a spell, as it doesn't stop resolution, only casting. If you silence them/aurelia's fury, they'll just sphinx's revelation in response. Silence is kind of a terrible spell in a lot of ways - it'd only be useful against Jund perhaps, as MOST of their power-house spells are sorcery speed. But then they'd probably just remove the zhur-taa ancient.
That being said, I did make a naya version of this deck originally(with Aurelia's Fury) and it just wasn't very effective.
I have however considered Fog-type affects, and also counterspells. Counterspells such as Counterflux and Plasm Capture seem to be the most useful so far, as they are both very GOOD against the decks that can utilize all of the mana Zhur-Taa Ancient provides. But it requires you to cast him with enough mana open for a counter, which can be tricky.
Yes, I have considered Yeva, Savage Summoning, and Primespeaker Zegana. I'm still deciding whether or not I want to use Primespeaker - she is very good, but she needs more creatures on which to trigger. I'm using alchemist's refuge as of now to flash in Zhur-taa Ancient- I often find myself being able to do so by turn 5-6 because of Farseek, Arbor Elf, Ranger's Path, and Urban Evolution.
The issue is that those cards are more Midrange and rely on more creature heavy decks. I would definitely use them if I were doing the creature version. That being said, if I were playing the creature version, i would not play Chandra.
Acidic Slime was in my sideboard for this deck initially, even with it being a spell deck - but I decided to cut him in lieu of bramblecrush. I can use Chandra to copy it, it's lower on the curve, and is best against control since they often use many non-creature permanents.
Clan Defiance is one of those cards which is excellent, but is 4x better off the sideboard, particularly against Midrange decks. Playing it off the sideboard always gives me the advantage of knowing if they're using flying creatures (i.e. Restoration angel, Angel of Thune, etc), maximizing it's effectiveness. And it's not particularly effective against aggro because of the cost. That 1 mana can make all the difference.
However, once the format has rotated, I -will- be playing Clan Defiance mainboard.
Frenzied Tilling is actually a great idea, but I feel like I'd want to play it in lieu of either Ranger's Path or Urban Evolution. I might sideboard it, as it's probably very effective against greedy curves. (and copying it with Chandra seems kind of broken) It will also be a serious consideration for mainboard post rotation.
I'm well aware that he is bad against opposing x-cost spells, I've even given careful consideration to the matchups where he is a liability, and even planned ahead by preparing "traps" for those kinds of decks, Although he will always be boarded out against Jund Midrange and any variant of that deck.
I'm welcome to constructive criticism, obviously, but I don't need to hear about how bad Zhur-Taa is against sphinx's revelation, rakdo's return, kessig wolf run, etc. Besides having heard it a million times, it is a risk of playing the card in maindeck, and I'm prepared to deal with the consequences of a bad G1.
2 Arbor Elf
3 Zhur-Taa Ancient
Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, the Firebrand
Spells:
3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Devil's Play
4 Farseek
2 Izzet Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Opportunity
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Plasm Capture
3 Ranger's Path
3 Turn // Burn
2 Urban Evolution
2 Alchemist's Refuge
4 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Rootbound Crag
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Bramblecrush
2 Clan Defiance
2 Counterflux
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Opportunity
1 Past in Flames
1 Pillar of Flame
1 Plasm Capture
2 Rolling Temblor
1 Turn // Burn
Point of the deck is to accomplish lifelink/lifegain, double strike, and trample whenever possible and preferably combined. Outclass the opponent with life and high damage that gets through.
------------
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Arbor Elf
2 Fencing Ace
2 Elvish Visionary
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Rhox Faithmender
4 Thragtusk
2 Armada Wurm
4 Cloudshift
2 Revenge of the Hunted
Planeswalkers
------------------
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Lands: 22
------------------
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
6 Forest
6 Plains
-----------------
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Giant Growth
2 Fencing Ace
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Rest in Peace
2 Faith's Reward
Okay, so you don't like the dorks or farseek. i agree, they've been giving me some trouble, I kind of hate farseek and dorks to be honest, but there's literally nothing to do on turn one, and that bothers me. you didn't struggle with this issue?
What I may end up doing is cutting farseek and just sticking to 6 dorks, I kind of like it that way and farseek has been irritating me to no end. It's just that 24 lands is sooo many, but I may be able to get by with just 22-23 and 6 dorks for 1 drops. dryad militant is kind of aggressive and shuts down reanimator, kinda makes me wanna try it.
However now I'm trying a Thragtusk Build with:
-----------
4 Cloudshift
4 Rancor
4 Farseek
2 Triumph of Ferocity
Creatures: 22
------------
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Arbor Elf
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Centaur Healer
3 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
1 Armada Wurm
------------------
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
-----------------
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Fiend Hunter
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wolfir Silverheart
Any thoughts?
I just received 4 as a christmas present, almost crapped myself.
You guys were right about Sigarda. Thanks again!
That being said, this deck is 100% viable, and I have the numbers to prove it.
Mostly cause they're not humans, and because they scream to be used against control decks.
Think they're worth playing mainboard? In testing they tend to get in the way of the main strategy, which I'm often willing to sacrifice in favor of a slightly slower but more consistent beatdown. Which is why I sideboard them.
In mirror against a G/W beatdown running loxodons I didn't run them. I handled every one I came across.
You could put in another acidic slime in place of at least one growing ranks. Conjurer's closet is a little slow without more mana ramp, you want that ETB triggering ASAP if that's your deck's strategy. Get another Restoration Angel too.
Gatecreeper is crap in constructed unless with Axebane Guardian.
You should definitely consider 3-4 Centaur Healer, he is excellent.
Fiend hunter could also be a consideration. Cloudshift BREAKS fiend hunter against creature heavy decks.
One thing I did notice you are missing is more mana ramp for all them tasty fatties.
Give farseek or ranger's path a try, I don't think you'll regret it.
If that's not your bag borderland ranger is way better than gatecreeper, hands down.
Trying out Wild Defiance today. What do you guys think about wild defiance?
I think it's scary fast in the way wild beastmaster is without having to worry about summoning sickness,
and it's fairly defensive against your average R/B running searing spear/pillar of flame.
Check out this decklist. What's missing, what do I need? I call it Selesnya Gunslingers.
---------------------------
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Fencing Ace
4 Silverblade Paladin
Spells: 16
---------------------------
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
2 Revenge of the Hunted
2 Wild Defiance
---------------------------
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
2 Cathedral Of War
5 Forest
5 Plains
Planeswalkers: 2
---------------------------
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
---------------------------
1 Ranger's Guile
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Giant Growth
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wild Beastmaster
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of Glory
Here's the most recently updated decklist(Post tournament, I picked up some good trades for it)
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
2 Giant Growth
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Fencing Ace
4 Knight of Glory
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Wild BeastMaster
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
2 Revenge of the Hunted
Lands: 20
---------------------------
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
5 Forest
5 Plains
---------------------------
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Rest In Peace
4 Loyal Cathar
2 Elite Inquisitor
3 Ranger's Guile
Ranger's guile won me a game against red control with just 1 on sideboard. Loved it, it's a great card, sticking with it until I get something better. I picked up a second Ajani so it's been added to the decklist as well. Elite inquisitor will be a haus in this deck against zombies/vampires.
Ajani won me two games. double strike/flying costs nothing with ajani once he's played, and a giant growth + any other buff is pretty much game.
I actually miracled revenge one time.(FTW) Otherwise it was useless and caused me to mulligan a lot as it kept mystically showing up in my hand as though it wanted to be there in a 20 land deck.
Wild Beastmaster was good as expected. Overwhelming numbers with him put me on the offensive enough to shut down aggro and damage-based creature control.
Overall here were my matchups.
1.) Bye
2.) U/W/B Flying Tokens. 2-1
3.) Some R/W/? control junk I couldn't identify. Possibly homebrew. 2-1
4.) Jund Midrange. 0-2
5.) Draw.
6.) G/W Sublime Beatdown. 2-0
7.) G/W/B Reanimator. 0-2
I got horrible draws against reanimator, but I didn't mulligan like I should have, 3 thragtusk back to back is not something this deck can deal with, even though i removed the first with selesnya charm.
Jund Midrange wrecked me. I did wallop him for 12 damage on turn 3 in one game but he answered everything I had after that with creature control. Not an unexpected outcome, I was okay with this loss.
G/W Sublime Beatdown. I answered everything he had with instant speed buffing, and that won me both games. Giant Growth FTW.