The red enchantment is disappointing, assuming there's a rare Flash cycle of enchantments. Furnace of Rath isn't that good nowadays and was only playable in burn which would rather not get to give mana and can't take advantage of the Flash. It's like all Kruphix's stuff is awesome..
Burn is just as happy as anyone to use the Flash here. End step drop this, untap, burn you out. At 5cmc it's not something you run a lot of, but it has definite applications and the entire deck likes to run at instant speed.
I think this card is significantly better than Furnace since it is so much easier to take advantage of the "symmetric" effect in your favor.
I feel like Ephara only does anything at all if you are either way ahead, or way late game. She's a dead card in the worst matchups. Not bad in the control game I guess, but wouldn't you rather have another AEtherling that late in the game?
Not sure how I feel about Mutavaults and the 27th land, but I definitely don't think you need all 8 G shocklands unless you intend to have GG cost sideboard cards. I have been running 4x Selesnya Charm MD with 12 G sources and had no issue (though I'm cutting back on the Charms now).
In general I have been worrying a lot about the Burn matchup but I think you have a solid plan there with 7-11 counters available.
Also I think that list is 61, not sure if you I intended it to be.
Jund is similar to GR, but certainly worse for us. I am curious what you think the bad matchups are if you aren't having trouble with anything else? I haven't been playtesting as long, but my general feeling is:
Re: Brimaz, I find him undesirable in any of the unfavorable matches listed and Blind Obedience excellent in all of them, hence my currently leaving him on the sideline. I do think that Fated Retribution is worth a try against GRx; right now I am at 7 "wraths" and wouldn't mind another to bring in.
Brimaz is for the Hyper Aggro decks and UWx Control match (Maybe Mono Blue I suppose), so I am not entirely sure why you are bringing him in against MBD and BW... but I am pretty sure that is just incorrect sideboarding and it would stand to reason why you are unsure on the card...
MUD just does not have removal for him, and even then I am unsure if I would side him in against them, there are better ways of winning the match without having to SB more cards in outside of they typical Gainsay, Dissolve, Negate and so on. As for RW Burn... I am not sure you would even side in anything other than Negate and Archangel of Thune.
So my question is... why are you bringing in a fairly easy to kill creating against all of these decks packing more than enough removal? Putting yourself into a more than fair DTR argument, just seems like playing bad magic... I cannot help but feel you are just not understanding his role correctly.
That's exactly my point, I can't figure out what role he is supposed to fill other than UWx mirror. I actually think he's good as yet another threat for the MBD/BW matchup, I just don't have the room to devote to what's already favorable.
The "hyper aggro" decks I have had trouble with are the ones I listed -- what actual aggro decks are in the meta that he's good against? GW and Monoblack Aggro are also around I suppose, but I don't think he's a high pick for those either due to the same removal spells.
So basically, I have only found Brimaz worthwhile in the UWx mirror, which may well be reason enough to include him, but I have been more focused on trying to consistently have a fair shot against GR and Burn.
I would suggest Selesnya Charm as the big thing you're missing against GR Monsters. Urban Evolution is probably not needed and Mistcutter Hydra is worse than it sounds like it ought to be here.
So I've switched from Bant Midrange/Prophet builds to this control deck and finding it much smoother. Still having trouble with more aggressive decks, primarily RW Burn which I believe is going to be a major metagame player, and WW/Heroic brews which I believe I have mostly fixed with Selesnya Charm being more prominent and good against other decks anyway.
I have been testing with Brimaz, King of Oreskos in the side, but I'm not sure that I actually like him very much. He fills a good role in the MBD/BW matchup to overload on threats, but is still not ideal due to Lifebane Zombie. He's great against certain aggro decks, but the main aggro decks I am concerned about (WW, RW Burn, MUD) he underperforms. If I rely on him as blocker against WW, he will eat Banisher Priest or Glare of Heresy and they'll keep swinging. Against Burn he is best-case going to eat 4 damage and block for 1 turn on the play. Against Mono Blue, he just gets flown over or trades with a Weird. Blind Obedience on the other hand is displaced by Brimaz in a lot of lists but seems better in all of those matchups.
Selesnya Charm has been an all-star for me so far, but 3 may be correct in the end. It's a surprisingly relevant creature and combat trick, and answers some of the biggest threats. I'm not sold on Simic Charm so far since bouncing a creature will rarely be good enough, and counterspells offer better protection than hexproof.
I love all the scry here, and I feel like it's a significant advantage in long grindy UWx mirrors especially.
So this is a bit of a departure from other lists as I actually don't like Prophet of Kruphix much in the deck. He works great with Ephara, God of the Polis, but she gets swung past while he eats removal. I noticed I was siding out my Prophets in virtually every matchup, then demoted him to sideboard, and finally cut one for other sideboard cards... At this point I don't know what I'd bring him in for. Perhaps he demands a more creature-heavy shell with a more forgiving manabase. I also cut an AEtherling from the sideboard at some point and would like to find room for him.
As for the manabase, it's basically a concession to having to shock for any untapped land. Yes, it's very slow and can cause trouble against aggressive opponents, but having this many scrylands is actually insane because it makes 6 land hands perfectly keepable in a lot of matchups. I would say random aggro decks are a great matchup for this deck because even if I get blitzed down in game 1, I'm on the play with Verdict the next game. So while I might be tempted to run more basics to save some life / curve out more often, the mana demands of 1WW/1GG -> 2UU -> 3WW are NEVER an issue with 24 duals.
4x Jace, Architect of Thought is my first line of defense against aggro, and a great source of card draw + pressure against control. I side 1-2 out against other midrange decks, but overall he's an all-star. His +1 makes a ton of new blocks favorable -- 2/3 Frog Lizard tokens can do exactly nothing to any creature in the deck.
4x Rapid Hybridization is more than just the maindeck solution to Stormbreath Dragon. The 3/3 it leaves behind is rarely a threat (especially with Jace) and it hits every big problem creature in the format sans Mistcutter Hydra.
Mono Black seems to be a fair matchup I would say. Black doesn't like to see a bunch of creatures it can't Bile Blight alongside a ton of planeswalkers it needs to Downfall. But they can still always get lucky and go off with Pack Rat before you can draw another Sphere.
UW Control and Esper Control feel slightly favored. Postboard plays out somewhat like a control mirror, with the huge trump of Mistcutter Hydra and other creatures forcing them to keep Verdict in.
GR Monsters has been a big target of my testing and has largely shaped the current list. They have a lot of haymakers that need to be dealt with ASAP, and I think with this tweaking I have it down to a fair matchup. Rapid Hybridization is absolutely essential for handling Stormbreath Dragon. It's also the main answer for Polukranos, World Eater, because every single Detention Sphere is earmarked for Domri Rade and Xenagos, God of Revels. Since all my other creatures die to fighting theirs, I put in Polukranos myself and have been loving him as a 2-of. As long as I can keep their big creature + fight combos off the board, they have no way to deal with a triggered Archangel of Thune. If they bring in a ton of Mistcutter Hydra that can be annoying as there are very few ways to kill them, but they are diluting their main threats in doing so and plenty of creatures here that can at least chump block the Hydra.
Mono Blue is the worst matchup of the big decks. Their nut hands will simply puree me without a Supreme Verdict, most of their damage is flying over or unblockable, and Domestication lets them KEEP Archangel of Thune! I need to do more testing here, but my inclination is to find room for a 4th Verdict, 3rd Polukranos and 3rd Unravel in the sideboard. Last Breath is a card that I once considered for this, but I think the Verdicts are more to the point.
Gx and Rx Devotion based decks with Burning-Tree Emissary feel favorable. Their creatures are too small to swing into the big walls on the ground, and most removal is blanked. Similar to the GR Monsters match but with fewer things to worry about landing.
RDW can be scary, but a single Jace/Verdict will quickly end the game for them. I think it is a favorable matchup due to that, but they do demand the presence of Verdict in the SB.
WW is not so favorable, because while we bring in Verdict they bring in Wear//Tear and Glare of Heresy which blank Detention Sphere, making planeswalker/god threats much harder to answer. I want Glare of Heresy for this matchup, but not at the cost of other matchups.
RW Burn is pretty much a free win. Their creatures are easily blanked and there's way too much lifegain for them to burn through.
As a Black Devotion player, I would be thrilled to see a green deck trot out a 2/1 creature T4+. It's certainly not going to trade with a 3/3 Rat, or any other creature in the deck. It also doesn't hit anything at all except Underworld Connections. I can't really imagine a legitimate reason to run it over the much more versatile enchantment removal in Green.
The new temple helps a bit, but I think the mana base is still better suited to a midrange approach. GW Aggro has not quite held up because it has horrid matchups against the top decks, and I don't think splashing red solves those problems.
As a midrange deck, I guess it winds up looking like GR Monsters with a splash for Archangels and sideboard options? She's definitely scary with Xenagod. I think this is a bit of a different direction from what you have in mind though.
So far Ephara has been a serious liability for me as a nonblocker who is unlikely to turn into one until the game is over. I don't expect Heliod to be much better in that regard. For card draw I prefer to just run more Jace, who jumps in front of aggro quite nicely. This also covers some of Sphinx's Revelation in an aggro-friendly way. Both are happy to come in against control, of course. Will remain to be seen exactly what stays mainboard, but Jace seems great against everything.
Kiora has been impressive against midrange styles, threatening fast ultimates and influencing their decisions until she is dealt with. I had her at 3 before, but she is a little too weak in some matchups and 1 copy should probably live in the sideboard.
Rapid Hybridization is pretty great here. Brimaz/Courser/Archangel could care less about 3/3s, and even Caryatid/Prophet can block them all day with Jace +1. It answers all sorts of big threats including the ones DSphere doesn't. Plummet is good against Desecration Demon and Stormbreath Dragon, but misses Blood Baron and all sorts of other opportunities to blow them out with removal.
Someone mentioned possibly cutting Caryatids... Well, I wouldn't. The manabase is definitely the shakiest part to me, with GG/WW on T3, UU T4, WW T5. I could cut a few more temples for basics, but that would only make the colors worse. Caryatid is the second color of whatever you're missing, and lets you either put up a T3 wall of x/3 x/4 if you're under pressure, or a T3 planeswalker when the coast is clear.
Haven't tested against MBD yet, but I am expecting it to be ugly. Simic Charm and similar effects might be necessary to protect the Archangel from removal, at least long enough to pump the field a couple times. Copious removal combined with Lifebane Zombie and Thoughtseize make me wonder what we will need from the sideboard to have a reasonable chance.
In my testing, Ephara has been a completely dead card against aggro while I never regretted having extra Jace/Kiora available. I am happy with Ephara as a 1-of because extras are not going anywhere.
I've been looking at 4 Supreme Verdict in the side for those weenie decks -- just transform into control. But I think Brimaz and Courser can pretty much shut them out. Should be a hard matchup for aggro to deal with, except there is a lot of shocking mixed in to keep up. Stormbreath Dragon is probably the most worrisome as it will tend to hit right when you're about to stabilize.
Are there any renders of the following? Or are the renders compiled in any one place where I can check. It's hard to page through all 200 pages to find out!
Abrupt Decay pg45
Restoration Angel
Batterskull
Birthing Pod Bloodghast Ninschi's photobucket Bribery
Chrome Mox Creeping Tar Pit pg102 or 103
Entomb Karn Liberated
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Lotus Cobra Magus of the Moon
Mangara of Corondor
Mystical Tutor Pack Rat pg116
Pact of Negation
Ranger of Eos Shardless Agent Smokestack
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of War and Peace Tezzeret the Seeker
Toxic Deluge
Umezawa's Jitte Unexpectedly Absent (misspelled version)
Vedalken Shackles Vengevine Voice of Resurgence
That Stabilization Orb, wow. Potent hate for Storm and Shops could shake up the Vintage meta a fair bit.
Disappointing to see a leak like this but these designs are exciting, gives me hope that this set will be a step in the right direction.
Hey, it enables Heroic just fine! You only need a Nivmagus Elemental to get rid of the pesky side effect...
Burn is just as happy as anyone to use the Flash here. End step drop this, untap, burn you out. At 5cmc it's not something you run a lot of, but it has definite applications and the entire deck likes to run at instant speed.
I think this card is significantly better than Furnace since it is so much easier to take advantage of the "symmetric" effect in your favor.
Not sure how I feel about Mutavaults and the 27th land, but I definitely don't think you need all 8 G shocklands unless you intend to have GG cost sideboard cards. I have been running 4x Selesnya Charm MD with 12 G sources and had no issue (though I'm cutting back on the Charms now).
In general I have been worrying a lot about the Burn matchup but I think you have a solid plan there with 7-11 counters available.
Also I think that list is 61, not sure if you I intended it to be.
Good luck in Ohio!
UW - Slightly favorable
Esper - Slightly favorable
UWR - 50/50
Mirror - 50/50 (obviously)
MBD/BW - Favorable
MUD - Favorable
Uw Devotion - Slightly favorable
GR Monsters - 50/50
Jund Monsters - Unfavorable
Naya Monsters - Slightly unfavorable
RW Burn - Unfavorable
WWx - Unfavorable
GW Aggro - Unfavorable
B/BR Aggro - Slightly unfavorable
Re: Brimaz, I find him undesirable in any of the unfavorable matches listed and Blind Obedience excellent in all of them, hence my currently leaving him on the sideline. I do think that Fated Retribution is worth a try against GRx; right now I am at 7 "wraths" and wouldn't mind another to bring in.
That's exactly my point, I can't figure out what role he is supposed to fill other than UWx mirror. I actually think he's good as yet another threat for the MBD/BW matchup, I just don't have the room to devote to what's already favorable.
The "hyper aggro" decks I have had trouble with are the ones I listed -- what actual aggro decks are in the meta that he's good against? GW and Monoblack Aggro are also around I suppose, but I don't think he's a high pick for those either due to the same removal spells.
So basically, I have only found Brimaz worthwhile in the UWx mirror, which may well be reason enough to include him, but I have been more focused on trying to consistently have a fair shot against GR and Burn.
Also there is a substantial discussion of this deck here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/competitive/proven-standard/uw-x-control/535183-primer-bant-control
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Syncopate
4 Dissolve
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Breeding Pool
3 Island
2 Plains
2 Mutavault
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Revoke Existence
2 Pithing Needle
3 Archangel of Thune
1 AEtherling
2 Negate
2 Blind Obedience
2 Last Breath
I have been testing with Brimaz, King of Oreskos in the side, but I'm not sure that I actually like him very much. He fills a good role in the MBD/BW matchup to overload on threats, but is still not ideal due to Lifebane Zombie. He's great against certain aggro decks, but the main aggro decks I am concerned about (WW, RW Burn, MUD) he underperforms. If I rely on him as blocker against WW, he will eat Banisher Priest or Glare of Heresy and they'll keep swinging. Against Burn he is best-case going to eat 4 damage and block for 1 turn on the play. Against Mono Blue, he just gets flown over or trades with a Weird. Blind Obedience on the other hand is displaced by Brimaz in a lot of lists but seems better in all of those matchups.
Selesnya Charm has been an all-star for me so far, but 3 may be correct in the end. It's a surprisingly relevant creature and combat trick, and answers some of the biggest threats. I'm not sold on Simic Charm so far since bouncing a creature will rarely be good enough, and counterspells offer better protection than hexproof.
I love all the scry here, and I feel like it's a significant advantage in long grindy UWx mirrors especially.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Ephara, God of the Polis
2 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Archangel of Thune
Planeswalkers
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Detention Sphere
4 Rapid Hybridization
2 Sphinx's Revelation
Land
4 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Mystery
1 Plains
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Dissolve
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Unravel the AEther
1 Elixir of Immortality
So this is a bit of a departure from other lists as I actually don't like Prophet of Kruphix much in the deck. He works great with Ephara, God of the Polis, but she gets swung past while he eats removal. I noticed I was siding out my Prophets in virtually every matchup, then demoted him to sideboard, and finally cut one for other sideboard cards... At this point I don't know what I'd bring him in for. Perhaps he demands a more creature-heavy shell with a more forgiving manabase. I also cut an AEtherling from the sideboard at some point and would like to find room for him.
As for the manabase, it's basically a concession to having to shock for any untapped land. Yes, it's very slow and can cause trouble against aggressive opponents, but having this many scrylands is actually insane because it makes 6 land hands perfectly keepable in a lot of matchups. I would say random aggro decks are a great matchup for this deck because even if I get blitzed down in game 1, I'm on the play with Verdict the next game. So while I might be tempted to run more basics to save some life / curve out more often, the mana demands of 1WW/1GG -> 2UU -> 3WW are NEVER an issue with 24 duals.
4x Jace, Architect of Thought is my first line of defense against aggro, and a great source of card draw + pressure against control. I side 1-2 out against other midrange decks, but overall he's an all-star. His +1 makes a ton of new blocks favorable -- 2/3 Frog Lizard tokens can do exactly nothing to any creature in the deck.
4x Rapid Hybridization is more than just the maindeck solution to Stormbreath Dragon. The 3/3 it leaves behind is rarely a threat (especially with Jace) and it hits every big problem creature in the format sans Mistcutter Hydra.
Mono Black seems to be a fair matchup I would say. Black doesn't like to see a bunch of creatures it can't Bile Blight alongside a ton of planeswalkers it needs to Downfall. But they can still always get lucky and go off with Pack Rat before you can draw another Sphere.
UW Control and Esper Control feel slightly favored. Postboard plays out somewhat like a control mirror, with the huge trump of Mistcutter Hydra and other creatures forcing them to keep Verdict in.
GR Monsters has been a big target of my testing and has largely shaped the current list. They have a lot of haymakers that need to be dealt with ASAP, and I think with this tweaking I have it down to a fair matchup. Rapid Hybridization is absolutely essential for handling Stormbreath Dragon. It's also the main answer for Polukranos, World Eater, because every single Detention Sphere is earmarked for Domri Rade and Xenagos, God of Revels. Since all my other creatures die to fighting theirs, I put in Polukranos myself and have been loving him as a 2-of. As long as I can keep their big creature + fight combos off the board, they have no way to deal with a triggered Archangel of Thune. If they bring in a ton of Mistcutter Hydra that can be annoying as there are very few ways to kill them, but they are diluting their main threats in doing so and plenty of creatures here that can at least chump block the Hydra.
Mono Blue is the worst matchup of the big decks. Their nut hands will simply puree me without a Supreme Verdict, most of their damage is flying over or unblockable, and Domestication lets them KEEP Archangel of Thune! I need to do more testing here, but my inclination is to find room for a 4th Verdict, 3rd Polukranos and 3rd Unravel in the sideboard. Last Breath is a card that I once considered for this, but I think the Verdicts are more to the point.
Gx and Rx Devotion based decks with Burning-Tree Emissary feel favorable. Their creatures are too small to swing into the big walls on the ground, and most removal is blanked. Similar to the GR Monsters match but with fewer things to worry about landing.
RDW can be scary, but a single Jace/Verdict will quickly end the game for them. I think it is a favorable matchup due to that, but they do demand the presence of Verdict in the SB.
WW is not so favorable, because while we bring in Verdict they bring in Wear//Tear and Glare of Heresy which blank Detention Sphere, making planeswalker/god threats much harder to answer. I want Glare of Heresy for this matchup, but not at the cost of other matchups.
RW Burn is pretty much a free win. Their creatures are easily blanked and there's way too much lifegain for them to burn through.
As a midrange deck, I guess it winds up looking like GR Monsters with a splash for Archangels and sideboard options? She's definitely scary with Xenagod. I think this is a bit of a different direction from what you have in mind though.
Here's what I'm testing at the moment:
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Archangel of Thune
3 Prophet of Kruphix
Instant (2)
2 Rapid Hybridization
Enchantment (4)
4 Detention Sphere
Planeswalker (7)
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Mystery
2 Plains
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Pithing Needle
2 Last Breath
2 Plummet
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Simic Charm
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 AEtherling
2 Unravel the AEther
2 Ephara, God of the Polis
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Elixir of Immortality
So far Ephara has been a serious liability for me as a nonblocker who is unlikely to turn into one until the game is over. I don't expect Heliod to be much better in that regard. For card draw I prefer to just run more Jace, who jumps in front of aggro quite nicely. This also covers some of Sphinx's Revelation in an aggro-friendly way. Both are happy to come in against control, of course. Will remain to be seen exactly what stays mainboard, but Jace seems great against everything.
Kiora has been impressive against midrange styles, threatening fast ultimates and influencing their decisions until she is dealt with. I had her at 3 before, but she is a little too weak in some matchups and 1 copy should probably live in the sideboard.
Rapid Hybridization is pretty great here. Brimaz/Courser/Archangel could care less about 3/3s, and even Caryatid/Prophet can block them all day with Jace +1. It answers all sorts of big threats including the ones DSphere doesn't. Plummet is good against Desecration Demon and Stormbreath Dragon, but misses Blood Baron and all sorts of other opportunities to blow them out with removal.
Someone mentioned possibly cutting Caryatids... Well, I wouldn't. The manabase is definitely the shakiest part to me, with GG/WW on T3, UU T4, WW T5. I could cut a few more temples for basics, but that would only make the colors worse. Caryatid is the second color of whatever you're missing, and lets you either put up a T3 wall of x/3 x/4 if you're under pressure, or a T3 planeswalker when the coast is clear.
Haven't tested against MBD yet, but I am expecting it to be ugly. Simic Charm and similar effects might be necessary to protect the Archangel from removal, at least long enough to pump the field a couple times. Copious removal combined with Lifebane Zombie and Thoughtseize make me wonder what we will need from the sideboard to have a reasonable chance.
I've been looking at 4 Supreme Verdict in the side for those weenie decks -- just transform into control. But I think Brimaz and Courser can pretty much shut them out. Should be a hard matchup for aggro to deal with, except there is a lot of shocking mixed in to keep up. Stormbreath Dragon is probably the most worrisome as it will tend to hit right when you're about to stabilize.
1) Thanks to all the awesome artists and graphic design work here. It's truly amazing stuff.
2) @IMorphling89, from this list, I definitely saw here:
I don't see much hope for this manabase against even badly mulliganed aggro.