Well guys, after all my prep into the list, I showed up late to the event due to traffic and closed toll roads because of accidents. When I showed up to the event there were only 19 people. I didn't get the chance to play in a 19 player 1 k, kinda saddend
I would like to ask for some guidance in my own list for UW Control since some of you may be playing this archetype for quite sometime than I am. I mainly play White Based or Boros Aggro so my brain's preset is still aggro thus I'm having as hard time evaluating cards that should be in a UW control deck. I have played control before which are RB Wildfire and MBC decks but that is a decade ago so I'm a bit rusty on this.
I have two Quicken and another Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the main prior to this list but during the FNM yesterday there was an instance where I have both Elspeth or Aetherling and Elspeth in hand prior to hitting my 6th land thus they just rot in my hand. Quicken is was ok for card a cantrip but there was only two instance that I was able to chain a Supreme Verdict with it. Majority of the time it is just a card draw.
My local meta includes GR Devotion, Mono Black Devotion, Orchov Midrange, RBW Control and a whole bunch of White Based aggro decks. What do you guys think about my list?
I have a 1 k today and your main deck is the exact same 60 I'm going with today, I have a different sideboard, so I'll let you know how I do.
I play with Render Silent. I often prefer it against aggressive decks who try to maximize each turn; not terrible against black, either, since they like to lead with Thoughtseize and follow up with a strong spell, and Render ends up being a nice tempo play. Against control, though, I find it's not that special unless your opponent is desperately trying to resolve multiple detention spheres or something. Another cancel isn't bad but you're rarely trying to do more than one thing a turn, anyway, is my point.
I don't know about seven counterspells; maybe it could work by I have reservations in a field with many aggressive decks.
Quicken is a neat card, but I've found I don't care for it. It would seem that with Jace, Divination and Sphinx that you have enough draw power to get relevant cards so long as you survive to cast them. You can also cantrip with charm, more and more cantrips are not what I'd suggest when you might simply want more cards that interact. I would only particularly favor Quicken if you expect you'll have to deal with the likes of Obzedat or other resistant threats. From your description this doesn't seem to be the case.
If you cut 1 or 2 Quicken, I do think 4th divination is worthwhile if there is a lot of monoblack. I personally run 3 but I won't deny the card advantage helps vs hard disruption.
If I expect an aggro meta, I personally wouldn't up my scryland count or divs to 4; I find enough of the UW lands enter tapped that I don't want more of it. Tapping out to divination can sometimes put you in trouble too, so if this happens to be the case I'd try for another removal spell or something else sleeker. Like you say, Azorius Charm has the extra modes, probably a good swap. Besides, Charm + Counterspell beats Obzedat just as Quicken + Supreme Verdict would. The only other perk Quicken has is killing mutavaults, but with main Last Breath that doesn't seem like an issue for you.
I think you should have a Ratchet Bomb or two somewhere. It's more removal against R/G, where your charms and last breaths are probably blanking often. You didn't list this among the most popular decks in your meta, but if it shows I think it could cause you trouble, and it wouldn't hurt to be a little prepared. I don't think the card is ever a dud, anyway.
Celestial Flares will definitely help, but I think bomb is harder to play around. Pithing Needles for PWs can be answered, but if you just kill the threat RG doesn't really have a way to bring it back. Bomb can also hit mistcutters on 1. Also just kinda good against tokens (including pack rat), not really bad against aggro either. I think you could consider 1 mainboard instead of 4th charm since it can answer about anything, but it's not necessarily correct so you should make your own judgment.
I'm not a fan of Blind Obedience; would drop to 1 or 0. I feel like it's just a lifegain card against haste; which isn't bad but I think you can do better. I'm a huge advocate of Trading Post, which gives generous chunks of lifegain vs red, feeds goats to desecration demon, buybacks Elixir or Bomb (if you include it) if they hit graveyard from counterspell or discard or whatever. Stalls a non-monstrous Stormbreath as long as you have cards in hand, and can chump mistcutter or other non-evasive threats for quite a while. I think you should test 1 for sideboard.
I can agree with you 100% about Quicken I have felt it useless or unwanted at most times, I feel like if we cut it I would add +1 Azorius Charm and something else.... I wouldn't go up to four main deck divinations.... And i feel wrong going up to 4 last breaths main as well. Maybe something usefull in the control matchup like a 1 of Render Silent? I'm actually not a fan of main decking ratchet bombeither, I've been playing this deck for some time and when testing with ratchet it's been to bad for me.
I'm actually loving the idea of a seventh counter spell right now, I thought at first with just cancel, but it tends to be a little bit bad for just 3 mana. i like render silent even if it does stress out the mana base just a bit more. it would be great in devotion matchups where they try to cast multiple cards a turn off nykthos and just great in the control mirror.
Do you think 2 scrys are to much guys or should i be on the no scy option?
i'd cut 2 last breath and go up to the fourth charm and fourth div.
charm isn't a permanent answer, and it's worse against voice and xathrid, but i feel like charm is just so much more versatile elsewhere. you were mentioning adding more scrys in to smooth out your draw, but i'm pretty sure my most frequent t2 play is to just cantrip the charm.
-1 obedience +1 breath in the side to put you back up to 3.
I don't post to often, kinda just look over the thread to see what tech people are running, so I'm not sure if I'm not allowed to talk about it or not, but revoke existence was just spoiled. I'm so happy that we have a 100% playable card spoiled for us. Sure, it's between 1-2 of in the sideboard, but I know for sure it's going to see play. It's another answer to gods besides countering a D-Sphere, and it hit's enchantments like Underworld connections. It can also hit things like enchantment creatures, IE boon saytar. It's always the commons and uncommons that excite me the most while playing control. Can I please have mana leak back?
Anyways, Hotsauce and Pastimes are both holding 1k's each saturday for 8 weeks straight, if you go to 6 of them at pastimes you get a free entry into gp chicago. I'm expecting to see a lot of aggro and MB and MU, with there being little control in the room. So my build is for the meta, keep that in mind.
I'm open to suggestions as i'll be playing U/W up until RTR rotates out. Most of my concerns are as follows.
1. Quicken, it's a good card no doubt, but I think I'd rather have the fourth charm over the second quicken for it's different options.
2. If I were to cut quicken, why would I play a one of? Could I cut it for the 4th divination?
3. If i cut quicken for the fourth divination (which is really good in the mono black mathcups) Should I go up to 4 scry lands to up smooth out opening draws of the game?
4. Some lists have been going up to 6 scy lands online. This isn't the right call for me and the expected meta, but what do you guys think about this in general? Say for the GP? I feel like it's way to much, at first I saw it was people who play it with dark betrayals and far//away in their sides, but then I saw normal lists doing it as well.
5. People who have played the no scryland, 27 land list, do you prefer no scrys over scrys? how is it working out for you?
I'm open to any and all suggestions..... Okay well.... People support rapid and adding more win conditions to the deck no, but numbers on the cards definitely. And pretty much the entire sideboard is up for debate. Thanks Guys
What MU did he side the ratchets in, and how well did they work?
we bring them infor any agressive strategy on the draw, usually take out some number of cacklers. they actually work really well. especially vs bant hexproof.
So I have been testing this deck out lately and trying to figure out the best way to incorporate Scavenging Ooze. The life gain feels relevant the Burning Earth in the board was great in testing. After reviewing the lest from the SCG Classic today, they didn't run Scavenging Ooze but they all had Burning Earth as 3 or 4 in their board. I feel Ooze is going to be great from my testing. How has everyone else felt about it?
Everyone in my group played the R/g and we all did fairly well... ooze is awful though. it seems good in theory but we all regreted it. mikey who place 27th wound up going up to 3 ratchet bombs in the side for our 5k this weekend
Let me just say that, yes this isn't a real deck.... you can tell by all the gates, lack of SV and lands and Sphinx's R., the numbers were way off and i was missing a lot of spells that i needed. also the deck was thrown together as round one was starting.... i sat down counting out my deck to make sure it was 60... then counting my land because i figured there would only be about 18 lands lol..... but the raw power even just using the deck as that was amazing. i went 3-2 at FNM beating 3 casual decks with not needing any effort. but my two loses.... they were to BUG aggro and B/G control..... let me just say that... holy **** I could tell that if my deck had the proper cards it would have been no big deal. the guildgates killed me because they put everything i wanted to do one turn behind me.... Just thinking about having the proper lands and the revelations make me warm and fuzzy on the inside. I got a lot of the spells i needed through trading, for the deck, Supreme verdicts, Jace's, and counter (something i forgot about when putting the deck together.). I'll post a real-ish list tomorrow morning after i wake up (real-ish meaning how i'm using it this friday, with the same mana base and no Sphinx's) (I made a deal to get the lands and Revelations on the 19th. That'll give me 5 real practice tournaments to prepare for the 5K (3 FNMs and 2 Rel Comp. WNM) with all the right cards. Now here's one question though, I own no snapcaster mages. are they worth it? my deck is leaning towards hating against aggro and midrange (as is the expected meta in chicago) and I just feel like my creature base is going to be 2 AEtherling and 3 Augur... with my 4 terminus (I'm loving it) and 3 SVs i just feel like they might not be needed, Now of course i'll test with them. but as of right now i'm thinking about not running them.
Hey Guys. Thank God I found this Primer. Been working on my build of UWR Control for 2 upcoming PTQs, one in Columbus and one in some strange town in Michigan. Not sure yet if I can actually attend them. which is really sad, but I am for sure attending the 5k in ChiTown on Aug. 3rd. I'm a really young player who has only played in a few big events, modern ptq (9th place) SCG IQ (7th place) GP Pittsburgh 2013 (6-3). I'm just getting back into standard after playing limited and modern for the past 7 months. Something that was important for me was to choose a deck that I know could survive rotation. Which is one of the main reasons I went about picking this deck up. Unfortunatly missing out on RTR Block Left me with out pretty much every single land. So I wound up just playing for fun at FNM with the deck using 12 guild gates and no SVs.... yeah it was just for fun.... the deck I used was
I have a 1 k today and your main deck is the exact same 60 I'm going with today, I have a different sideboard, so I'll let you know how I do.
Okay, I'll go up to 4 in the main. Yeah I know we get it in a few weeks, but i've got 3 1ks up till then lol so im not sure about them now
would you just recommend the fourth last breath?
I can agree with you 100% about Quicken I have felt it useless or unwanted at most times, I feel like if we cut it I would add +1 Azorius Charm and something else.... I wouldn't go up to four main deck divinations.... And i feel wrong going up to 4 last breaths main as well. Maybe something usefull in the control matchup like a 1 of Render Silent? I'm actually not a fan of main decking ratchet bombeither, I've been playing this deck for some time and when testing with ratchet it's been to bad for me.
I'm actually loving the idea of a seventh counter spell right now, I thought at first with just cancel, but it tends to be a little bit bad for just 3 mana. i like render silent even if it does stress out the mana base just a bit more. it would be great in devotion matchups where they try to cast multiple cards a turn off nykthos and just great in the control mirror.
Do you think 2 scrys are to much guys or should i be on the no scy option?
I'd still prefer the last breaths in the main
Anyways, Hotsauce and Pastimes are both holding 1k's each saturday for 8 weeks straight, if you go to 6 of them at pastimes you get a free entry into gp chicago. I'm expecting to see a lot of aggro and MB and MU, with there being little control in the room. So my build is for the meta, keep that in mind.
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Spells
3 Azorius Charm
3 Last Breath
4 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Dissolve
2 Syncopate
3 Divination
2 Quicken
1 Elixir of Immortality
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Azorius Guildgate
2 Mutavault
2 Temple of Deceit
7 Plains
7 Island
1 AEtherling
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Glare of Heresy
3 Celestial Flare
2 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Last Breath
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blind Obedience
I'm open to suggestions as i'll be playing U/W up until RTR rotates out. Most of my concerns are as follows.
1. Quicken, it's a good card no doubt, but I think I'd rather have the fourth charm over the second quicken for it's different options.
2. If I were to cut quicken, why would I play a one of? Could I cut it for the 4th divination?
3. If i cut quicken for the fourth divination (which is really good in the mono black mathcups) Should I go up to 4 scry lands to up smooth out opening draws of the game?
4. Some lists have been going up to 6 scy lands online. This isn't the right call for me and the expected meta, but what do you guys think about this in general? Say for the GP? I feel like it's way to much, at first I saw it was people who play it with dark betrayals and far//away in their sides, but then I saw normal lists doing it as well.
5. People who have played the no scryland, 27 land list, do you prefer no scrys over scrys? how is it working out for you?
I'm open to any and all suggestions..... Okay well.... People support rapid and adding more win conditions to the deck no, but numbers on the cards definitely. And pretty much the entire sideboard is up for debate. Thanks Guys
we bring them infor any agressive strategy on the draw, usually take out some number of cacklers. they actually work really well. especially vs bant hexproof.
Everyone in my group played the R/g and we all did fairly well... ooze is awful though. it seems good in theory but we all regreted it. mikey who place 27th wound up going up to 3 ratchet bombs in the side for our 5k this weekend
Spam, don't waste entire posts advertising twitter. You are allowed to advertise in your sig if it isn't too long.
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Hellrider
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Flinthoof Boar
2 ?
3 Madcap Skills
3 Searing Spear
10 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
3 Temple Garden
Really need help with my list for the SCG Classic this weekend guys.... SOS
Cards I can't seem to fit in right now are Gore-clan and Lightning Mauler
Most decks run 10 green sources, plus it can be played off BTE In my version i'm currantly running 11 green sources
4 Boros Guildgate
4 Azorious Guildgate
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
2 Mountain
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Terminus
3 Izzet Charm
3 Turn/Burn
2 Warleader's Helix
4 Think Twice
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 AEtherling
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Counterflux
3 Augur of Bolas
3 Detention Sphere
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Azorious Charm