Comparing counterspells to discard spells is a very dangerous avenue to go down. For all but a few instances they are divided into instant and sorcery which already makes one far more powerful.
Counterspells inherently are more dangerous to a format because unlike discard they also timewalk an opponent whether or not you bait first to get what you want onto the field.
It is this reason blue is nearly impossible to balance as a color against the others. It is why very few decks in legacy teir 1 exist without blue. It is that tipping point for blue when counterspells are a good enough timewalk that formats warp around blue and blue only.
One thing i noticed which most people made that vast mistake of playing too many vehicles. They are not creatures, they are a variant on equipment. As equipment only a few should be played in a deck.
Now i know this concept probably has quite a few flaws but i like the fact that with this version there is a lot more resiliency. The ability to flood the field quickly and easily refill your hand and with a good hand a turn 3 drop of Primalcrux then Khalni Hydra is not out of the question even without Primalcrux. Most likely that is swing for lethal that turn with Aspect of Hydra.
You should be playing Soldier of the Pantheon in here, pro multicolored is a BIG deal, the lifegain from it is also very relevant against aggro decks, even mono red since they play cacklers, bte's, and reckoners.
Daxos is just too weak to be playable in standard. Most decks also play at least one creature that can block him. I don't think he'll ever connect and even if he does, you have to play the spell exiled with him in that turn and it might not be a relevant spell. The power of Nightveil Spector is that it's evasive and there aren't many good fliers to block it, it's 2/3 which means it cna't be magma jeted or shocked (and it can block some creatures), and it lets you play the cards exiled with it anytime (so you can play counters, and other reactive spells). Daxos is a nightveil spector with massive downside, and spector is barely playable as it is.
I'm not sure why you have elite arcanist in here. He's a 4 drop that doesn't do anything until turn 5, not to mention he's only a 1/1. You only have 5 cards to use on him too (not counting hidden strings). This is not the deck for him, and honestly I don't he's playable in any deck.
I really like your suite of spells that trigger heroic. I think you want 4 fate foretold instead of the 2 ordeal of heliod, and you should probably have 4 gods willing, but the rest makes sense. I just think that the heroic mechanic doesn't do enough. Battlewise hoplite is probably the best one since it gets bigger, scrys, and at worst it's a 2/2 for 2. But triton is a 2/2 for 3 that just get's brickwalled almost immediately by most decks, sure it turns most of your spells into cantrips, but that's not enough to warrant inclusion in a competetive deck. I can see artisan of forms being good, but only against midrange decks, so it's probably just a sideboard card. You should be playing Fabled Hero. That's a pretty good heroic card.
I really like the idea of heroic, but they just haven't printed enough good ones to build around.
You'll almost never turn on thassa, I'd drop her, and just play more spears.
You will never cast dismiss into dream I don't understand why it's in here, you only have 21 lands. The shrine will not give you any value, you just aren't playing enough color mana symbols for it to do anything. And temple of mystery needs to be azorius guildgate, scry is cool, but not worth playing a tapped land that doesn't tap for both of your colors.
Thanks for the ideas. I was already reworking it a little when you replied.
Still not sure on sideboard but I'm thinking this would be better. A better late game with Aetherling and spells. I can see using Soldier of the Pantheon too but I'm not sure what to drop out to bring him in and is he really that much better than Favored Hoplite since he doesn't grow and the hoplite gains protection with the bulk of my spells.
I've been messing around with this deck myself and I actually think it can be one of the stronger decks in standard. Everything is slowing down so much and there is more than enough Heroic enablers.
This deck focuses around Scry and protection.
Clearly I have no idea how to build a sideboard so suggestions would be great.
I like the idea about using Brave the Elements or would Gift of Immortality be better in the fact that it continues to Heroic trigger and gives protection.
I like the idea of shifting a little toward the midrange deck in the sideboard.
Side in cards for:
Flinthoof Boar = early pressure/stall after boarding out Peddler combo
Skullcrack = side in for sphinx and thrag
Mizzium Mortars = aggro and midrange
Rolling Temblor = aggro
Garruk Relentless = aggro
Huntmaster, Thragtusk, and Prime Speaker = to shift the deck away for Peddler Combo after game 1
And when you have a Serra Ascendent out, every point of life above 30 becomes superfluous. Ajani's Pridemate doesn't care about your life total whatsoever (something like Serra Avatar does, but again, it becomes unnecessarily big in a real hurry).
I guess there's also Test of Endurance and Felidar Sovereign if you want to keep absurdly high life totals, but that's a little off track from the OP's question.
Teia you get the reason I don't play Ajani's Pridemates anymore. It is extremely easy to get him to high power level but there is absolutely no evasion so what's the point. I used to have Felidar Sovereign in the deck but it is such a big threat that it is almost impossible to keep on the field.
Land destruction by itself is way too slow to be good in standard by itself but pair it with multiple ramp abilities and recursion and you have a deck. Right now I think the best ramp out there right now is Heartless Summoning. Now I prefer the Grixis form of the Heartless deck but I think Land destruction with it could be fun and powerful. Here is what I threw together when I saw some of the ideas posted here:
The big power of this deck is using Undying with Black Sun's Zenith. Whether you have Mikaeus, the Unhallowed or just cast Undying Evil on Acidic Slime you can knock out multiple lands a turn (at least I think that works with 1/1 and -1/-1 counters eliminating each other). And even without that engine you will have an immense amount of land vs. your opponents few.
I just noticed a mistake with my previous. I would remove the Birds and replace it with 3 Smallpox.
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Counterspells inherently are more dangerous to a format because unlike discard they also timewalk an opponent whether or not you bait first to get what you want onto the field.
It is this reason blue is nearly impossible to balance as a color against the others. It is why very few decks in legacy teir 1 exist without blue. It is that tipping point for blue when counterspells are a good enough timewalk that formats warp around blue and blue only.
Realistically i won the night before it even started with a foil Chandra, Torch of Defiance and a foil Skysovereign, Consul Flagship. Additionally i pulled 2 Fairgrounds Warden, 1 Veteran Motorist, 1 Master Trinketeer, 1 Lathnu Hellion, 1 Multiform Wonder, 2 Inventor's Apprentice, 1 Gearshift Ace and a few other vehicles.
One thing i noticed which most people made that vast mistake of playing too many vehicles. They are not creatures, they are a variant on equipment. As equipment only a few should be played in a deck.
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Overgrown Battlement
2 Wall of Mulch
4 Wall of Blossoms
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
3 Primalcrux
4 Khalni Hydra
1 Primeval Titan
2 Utopia Sprawl
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Helix Pinnacle
2 Fecundity
1 Aluren
Spells(4)
4 Aspect of Hydra
Lands(23)
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
13 Forests
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Vigor
1 Chameleon Colossus
2 Predator Ooze
10 ?
Now i know this concept probably has quite a few flaws but i like the fact that with this version there is a lot more resiliency. The ability to flood the field quickly and easily refill your hand and with a good hand a turn 3 drop of Primalcrux then Khalni Hydra is not out of the question even without Primalcrux. Most likely that is swing for lethal that turn with Aspect of Hydra.
Thanks for the ideas. I was already reworking it a little when you replied.
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Artisan of Forms
2 Fabled Hero
2 Aetherling
Spells (20)
3 Triton Tactics
2 Aqueous Form
4 Gods Willing
3 Fate Foretold
3 Ordeal of Thassa
3 Hidden Strings
2 Gift of Immortality
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Enchantments (3)
3 Spear of Heliod
Lands
4 Hallowed Fountain
10 Plains
8 Island
3 Azorius Charm
1 Dauntless Onslaught
1 Stolen Identity
2 Detention Sphere
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Spear of Heliod
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Glaring Spotlight
2 Ordeal of Heliod
Still not sure on sideboard but I'm thinking this would be better. A better late game with Aetherling and spells. I can see using Soldier of the Pantheon too but I'm not sure what to drop out to bring him in and is he really that much better than Favored Hoplite since he doesn't grow and the hoplite gains protection with the bulk of my spells.
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Artisan of Forms
2 Triton Fortune Hunter
3 Daxos of Meletis
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Elite Arcanist
Spells (17)
3 Triton Tactics
2 Aqueous Form
2 Gods Willing
2 Fate Foretold
2 Ordeal of Heliod
2 Ordeal of Thassa
4 Hidden Strings
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Enchantments (2)
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Dismiss into Dream
Lands
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple of Mystery
5 Plains
7 Island
2 Master of Waves
3 Azorius Charm
1 Dauntless Onslaught
1 Stolen Identity
2 Detention Sphere
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Spear of Heliod
1 Planar Cleansing
2 Fleecemane Lion
1 Glaring Spotlight
I've been messing around with this deck myself and I actually think it can be one of the stronger decks in standard. Everything is slowing down so much and there is more than enough Heroic enablers.
This deck focuses around Scry and protection.
Clearly I have no idea how to build a sideboard so suggestions would be great.
I like the idea about using Brave the Elements or would Gift of Immortality be better in the fact that it continues to Heroic trigger and gives protection.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Nightshade Peddler
3 Izzet Staticaster
2 Huntmaster of The Fells
1 Thragtusk
3 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Progenitor Mimic
Artifacts(3)
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Staff of Nin
Planeswalkers(5)
3 Domri Rade
2 Ral Zarek
Spells(10)
4 Farseek
3 Izzet Charm
3 Plasm Capture
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sulfur Falls
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
4 Breeding Pool
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Clan Defiance
4 Flinthoof Boar
1 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Prime Speaker Zagana
I like the idea of shifting a little toward the midrange deck in the sideboard.
Side in cards for:
Flinthoof Boar = early pressure/stall after boarding out Peddler combo
Skullcrack = side in for sphinx and thrag
Mizzium Mortars = aggro and midrange
Rolling Temblor = aggro
Garruk Relentless = aggro
Huntmaster, Thragtusk, and Prime Speaker = to shift the deck away for Peddler Combo after game 1
4 Arbor Elf
4 Nightshade Peddler
3 Izzet Staticaster
2 Huntmaster of The Fells
1 Thragtusk
3 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Progenitor Mimic
Artifacts
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Staff of Nin
Planeswalkers
3 Domri Rade
2 Ral Zarek
Spells
4 Farseek
3 Izzet Charm
3 Plasm Capture
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sulfur Falls
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
4 Breeding Pool
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Infinite Reflections
Now the whole goal of this deck is to stall until being able to drop Ruric Thar, the Unbowed or Progenitor Mimic a Thragtusk or Huntmaster of The Fells.
Now game 1 the Peddler Staticaster combo should lock in the win but sideboarding has never been a strength of mine so some help would be great.
Needless to say, I'm excited.
I used to play with Ajani's Pridemate but it wasn't as much fun as just slowly overtaking the game with tokens and bombs like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Cathar's Crusade. I will always play with Serra Ascendants in the deck.
Teia you get the reason I don't play Ajani's Pridemates anymore. It is extremely easy to get him to high power level but there is absolutely no evasion so what's the point. I used to have Felidar Sovereign in the deck but it is such a big threat that it is almost impossible to keep on the field.
The question I pose is what are the best cards to spend life? My favorite that I have found is Bloodletter Quill.
I just noticed a mistake with my previous. I would remove the Birds and replace it with 3 Smallpox.