MTG Salvation

I don't know if R/w or W/r is better but here's a few reasons why I like W/r

1. White probably has better 1cc creatures. The owl really fits the theme of protecting the double-strike creatures and it's evasion is nice.
2. Brave the elements >> Gods willing, when it hits all your creatures at once.
3. The fiendslayer paladin is very good vs black and red and it's just harder to cast with a Rw manabase.

There some benefits to red also and existenz deck looks interesting. I want to test his decklist and try some bestow creatures before I make changes.

After posting this deck in a few different subforums, then being removed from those subforums and archived, this is probably it's last resting place. I felt it important to post it again because, it's a unique archetype. Unless I'm missing some vital component, it will never make it to tier 1 status but, it's quite strong, maybe tier 1.5. Double strike is a very dangerous mechanic. The evasion from madcap and the two 1cc creatures can push thru damage. The burn provides reach and sometimes removal. So without further ado, here's the list.



B/x with Thoughtseize, Lifebane Zombie and removal are very difficult. R/x, with lots of burn, are tough game one but white has some cards that can improve the matchup considerably and can easily be won in games 2 and 3. B/x and R/x creature based decks that are curved out well, are also difficult. However, all other creature based decks, usually G/x, are very winnable. The evasion from the 1cc creatures, madcap and brave the elements can push thru damage late game or the reach from burn can finish the job.

Any suggestions are welcome. It would be nice to see some playtesting done, since its a unique archetype. Specifically, I'd like to know what people think is a good manabase. Maybe I'm missing Mana Confluence, so I can hit all my creature drops. I've been playing without Mutavaults.

I've posted this in a couple other subforums and haven't gotten much feedback. I think it belongs here because after testing and tweaking it for a couple weeks online, it's done fairly well against a variety of decks. There have been other threads with double strike creatures but I don't think there's enough attention focused on a deck built around it. Usually white weenie means heroics. So here's the deck.


The biggest weakness is having creatures that die easily to removal, one reason I play brave the elements and the owl. The matchups vs red and black aren't so good before siding. White gives us a lot of options vs red and that matchup could easily be won in games 2 and 3. Creatures based decks are easier because if we're given time to setup combinations, we can usually get damage thru by evasion, owl, madcap skills and brave the elements and instant damage gives us some reach. You may need to playtest it to get a feel of how it wins. The sideboard isn't finalized and Blind Obedience or Banishing Light could be added. Any feedback or suggestions are welcome.

Has anyone tried using Diabolic Tutor? Not necessarily as a toolbox approach but, you could go that route. It would give us a fifth or sixth Gray Merchant of Asphodel against burn or find the best win condition faster. Any ideas on that?

I played in a PE yesterday(friday) and went 5-2. I'm still tinkering with it because it's my only deck. It wins quite a bit in practice, maybe 60-70% and then drops off a bit in PEs but, I think it's perfectly capable of winning events. I sorta wanted to make top8 and get the deck listed but I had bad tie-breaks so didn't happen. There was about 12, 5-2s and half made top8. I just never see anything like this deck anywhere. The mono-green infect deck is popular online and has made several top4. A mono-black won a PE recently. There's still a few weeks before rotation if I wanted to try again.

I lost 2-1 to a very good delver deck in rd 2. Extra whipflares are good to have. Was in top8 after rd 6 but we had over 64, 66 to be exact so it was 7 rds and I lost 2-0 to rg agro. That player won the tournament and would have been eliminated otherwise, so at least he made the most of the oppurtunity. My game winning% was 5th best at 68%, if that means anything

Here's the most recent build:
The tutor has been good for me, especially when you can fork it with chandra. But chandra is sorta fragile and tends to get killed asap so I went down to 2 and took out the caress. Maybe the caress is good enough to keep in anyway. So many creature based decks with cip that despise is much better now. Seemed like I used to whiff on it but maybe 2 main is a good idea. The pharaoh is sorta quirky, tech as they say, and very useful. Sometimes i'll tutor for it and go on offense. Still as 2 color deck, I do have mana problem which means a mono-black build might be better. Black has sign in blood and the amazing lashwrithe.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

Took this build to a win-a-box tournament and went 3-1-0.

Grats TabooTapeworm. Even with only 4 matches, you touched upon some of the difficulties with the deck.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I overextended into a mutilate.

Now that mono-black is a common deck, everyone seems to be hating on black creaturez with GFTT, dismember and mutilate. Always easier when the crusader has protection from removal.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

Karn started tearing apart my hand but I kept ahead of him playing gambits and discarding extra lands.

Definitely some tough cards that are difficult to beat once they hit the field. Gideon and lashwrithe too. You play a lot of burn for the planeswalkers but, discard(duress) is another option.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I needed double black to play my creatures and Lily and never saw my second black source.

25 land seems a bit high but, you got enough black sources.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

His build had a ton more removal and I never got in for a single point of infect.

Definitely a problem sometimes. I found that ichor rats are good vs heavy control when you need that one poison counter. Necropede might be good too, just more creatures. Doubt they'd use removal on a 1/1, sneak in that one point. Lately I've played inkmoth first turn to get that one point turn 2, even if I had other things I could do.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I kept a hand of heavy spot removal but my removal was useless against his hexproof beaters with Sword of War and Peace.

I once had an invisible stalker with 2 rancors beat me. You do have tributes in the side. I started using 3 lilys and 2 geths verdict works for me.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I had plenty of early sweepers and dropped a Liliana. By turn 5, I dropped a Curse of Death's hold and his X/1 creatures couldn't stick.

I like the Curse, have 2 in side now.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

he top decked a Consecrated Sphinx and dropped it alongside a spellskite. I had a Sever the bloodline in hand but of course he redirected and drew his combo before I could deal with the sphinx.

sphinx is another bomb. I don't see it a lot but it's a common finisher in strong decks. Helps to pack instant removal so they don't get any cards on your turn. Also GFTT gets around the redirect since spellskite is an artifact.

Maybe your deck works best with your meta but some food for thought.

I thought I read that you've been playing with this deck since last year? Have you seen any other variations like yours? I started with MBI last fall and once I realized it was good, I didn't consider splashing colors. Most of this deck was intact post-rotation, so it must've been even better back then.

It's interesting that there's so many infect variations. This sunday a mono-green infect won the online std event. Lost first round 0-2 then won 9 games in a row. It was pretty simple, used cheap infect creatures and pumped them with rancor, exalted lands and the usual stuff. I've had problems with other infect decks too. And this week, m13 was legal so I missed out on the pre-m13 days. I tried a few game over the weekend and it didn't go so well, so many new cards.

There's always problem decks: counter, counter..gideon, karn and it's over.
1/1 infect creatures + wild defiance and lots of fast pump.
All the CIP from uw decks, snappy, restoration, titans.
So I need to relook at the cards again before I get my deck together. I'm happy you like the discard, I'm sure I'll put duress in somewhere.

When MBI was first played in the fall, spellskite was sorta popular because it could protect our fragile 1/1 creatures like whispering specter from removal. It was vary good vs RDW because it could redirect damage from their shrine, which is a huge threat and, slow them down a bit by blocking. Also, I've played against a Gb infect deck with tons of pump that it would completely shut down because it could redirect all their pump spells so, its worth considering.

You named a few reasons why spellbomb is good. Primarily vs undying, blue draw spells and snappy but, also frites and other flashback things like burning vengeance. At the very least it's easy to cantrip, so is rarely a nuisance.

I know it sorta odd but, my last version of MBI played 2 gitaxian probe. The damage usually wasn't a problem and it was nice to see their hand. Idk about now though. I also played 3 liliana.

I think the deck needs something more than crusader and I like vatmother but, ichor rats might be good too. In fact, I could remove virulent wound, maybe not all 3 but, replace them with ichor rats since it's a guaranteed poison counter and most x/1 can be killed with board sweepers.

I missed all the PE std events this weekend, dang. I have next weekend, then the new set is legal so it's only going to get more difficult. I got no other decks in the works so sticking with this until rotation.

I've always liked discard and almost always played a black based deck so, it's usually part of my 75 cards. Last year when I played vampires, I had 3x duress main. Not everyone who played vampires played any discard. With the addition of duress in m13, we now have 4 cheap discard spells(duress,distress,despise,appetite for brains).

I guess my question is what discard would you play, if at all, in either a black agro(vampires) or control(MBC) deck?

I'm playing a BR control deck now but might try to build a MBC deck. I'll probably use duress main and maybe a couple distress in the side.

General ramblings about what you like/dislike about discard is acceptable too, since duress will be the only spell after rotation.

So I've tested somewhat on MTGO. It does win quite a bit. I think the strategy and some of the cards are so different, people don't know how to play against it. My deck has slight tweaks but, overall a fantastic deck. Some thoughts:

Aggro is a problem, not the rg type but, fast red or rb zombies, as grafikmtg mentioned. When I played mono-black, vatmother was a bomb against rdw, such a huge body to have to burn thru, so I've kept one for those types of matches. Maybe I'll put another in side. Here are some other cards I'm considering: tribute to hunger, spellskite, pillar of flame, necropede, elixir of immortality(!?hope it doesn't come to this).

There are cards that are complete hosers if they get a chance to hit the field so, it's probably best to remove from hand before . karn liberated, griselbrand(CA), other planeswalkers etc. so, I play discard. Always like discard.

My removal package is still up in air. Tragic slip doesn't always trigger and burn is nice but, I'm mostly worried about non-targetable and big things like titans so GFTT has been my main card and geth's verdict is versatile too.

Spellbomb has been useful in so many matchups that it deserves a spot main.

Kandjar - Are you still playing this deck and if so, will you stay with it until it rotates? Any new ideas to add to your current decklist?

I have the cards and time to test some things so it will be a starting point for me. I like discard and its good vs many things like planeswalkers. Have you considered distress or any other discard after m13 is released? I'm not a big fan of the myr. It is annoying to not have poison counters when you start proliferating so, maybe necropede deserves a spot but, I've added 2 vatmothers to have some immediate threats and, it survives board wipes. Any thoughts on that?

I played mono-black infect, pre-dka and since that build has become very difficult with lingering souls and too much junk on the field, I thought I would add a red splash rather than a blue, if I continued playing infect. I'm sure the blue with tezzeret isn't bad but I hate blue so.. Looks like your single-handedly keeping this idea alive kandjar, bravo. So I'm on board with the build but might be a while before I get everything together online to test.

Have you considered equipment? Tough to replace lashwrithe, but most infect decks used livewire lash or trigon pre-dka.

How has necropede been for you? Better vs agro maybe. Have you considered whispering specter?

Has the manabase been stable? Would be tough to play slagstorm(RR) and Liliana(BB).

Deadly Allure. I was trying to build a BG smallpox deck that featured this card. Unfortunately it's tough to get the land right when you want to play messenger and also use green. The point is you can use it with gravecrawler as a recursive creature killer. It also combos well with Obliterator.

Lingering Souls killed off the evasion from Whispering Specter, Inkmoth Nexus and Plague Stinger too.

How about using Crimson Wisps. Obviously you're going to play creatures asap, but if you got 2 devils or maybe play that hellspark turn 2 and maruader turn 3 hasted. Best case scenario is giving haste to Vexing Devil or Marauder and getting 3-4 'free' damage. Worst case is getting 2-for-1 if they kill the creature and, it might be useless late game. Another card like that is Needle Drop.