This is a work in progress. I'll be using this thread to keep track of the deck as I modify it.
I've managed to find all of the cards I'm interested in and I'm in the process of cutting down
to the final 99 (This used to have 200+ cards in it). And yes, there are a number of things I have opted
not to include such as timewalk effects. Yes, they're powerful, but I'm shooting for a strong yet not
broken power level. Broken is easy to build. Strong but fun is less so.
The deck is also following a very strong theme of copying big spells for fun and profit. The day 5 Eternal Dominions show up on the stack will be a good one.
EDIT: Alright looks like this is the final list for the time being. The power level seems to be in a great spot.
The deck definitely does stuff and interacts with the boardstate, but I made sure to remove any infinite combos
to keep the power level down.
I share the same opinion on sonik regarding infinite combos, and found I had one in my deck today. Turns out that early harvest + nivix guildmage form an infinite amount of mana. And I still run a few comet storm effects, so this can lead to an instant win.
Are there any alternatives to either harvest or guildmage that bypass this problem?
Echo Mage would be a great replacement for the Nivix GuildMage.
It has a slightly higher cost up front, but gets better as you invest in it.
Izzet GuildMage is also a possible replacement if you're alright with the cost restriction.
The only other possible card is Sigil Tracer, but the requirement to have wizards around to tap means you'll usually have Riku out when using this anyway. But maybe you're alright with that.
Conjurer's Closet will help you keep your dragons that you search up with Zirilan. You just gotta stack things appropriately at the end of your turn.
You need as much mana as you can get, because Zirilan isn't cheap to cast. In addition sometimes he gets tucked so you will have to hard cast your dragons. Gauntlets of Power and Braid of Fire will help you out here, on top of some more mana rocks.
Furyborn Hellkite is going to underperform. You need to do damage before he gets his bloodlust ability, and that's annoying.
You're running Worldgorger, are you planning on some infinite shenanigans?
About the worldgorger, he's actually more for wrath protection. You can leave zirilan untapped and then tutor for worldgorger in response to a wrath. Gorger exiles field then wrath goes off only hitting the gorger while you sit there looking smug.
Also furyborn is fine since I'm ok with hard-casting him. I'm purposefully leaving certain slower pieces in so that this deck can be played casually. I actually have a Riku combo deck that I play which goes all out. When my playgroup is playing competitively we allow Rafellos/ Griselbrand and we also have Arcum Daggson, Vendilion Clique plus some other combo generals. Riku has no trouble playing evenly against them, so I don't need another fully powered deck. This deck is being made to play with another group of friends that plays more casually. It will have both boring slow cards like furyborn plus a few hidden combos that I'll only use in very specific situations (I probably won't ever need to use them against my casual friends, and they'll have no idea they are in there).
3/19: Keep in mind that whatever you see is far from finished. The deck isn't even down below 100 cards right now. I'm still going through looking for good candidates for the deck.
3/25: Alright this is probably the finished version of the deck. The focus is entirely on spitting out dragons and swinging for the fences. Strong removal and most protection has been left out ON PURPOSE. This deck is meant to be strong but casual. The only infinite combo left in the deck is the infinite combat steps. Other than that I pulled everything else. (Had Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth, Worldgorger Dragon + Minion Reflector, and some other really ugly infinite recursion combos involving tutoring with Zirilan. Plus even one that involved milling everyone out via Altar of Dementia. Zirilan made most of these tutorable (hoarding dragon for the artifacts) and consistent by turn 7 if I got absolutely ZERO ramp (with ramp it was 4 or 5, and with a lucky hand could turn 2 in one very specific edge case). I already have an over the top combo deck. I (and my playgroup) don't need another.
4/6: After play-testing 10 - 15 games I made a few polish changes to tighten up the deck a bit. I added a number of additional enchantments into the deck since red has some amazing power boosters. I also added a few more mana rocks to help with the larger curve in the deck. Dropped down from 27 creatures to 22. Was finding that some of the dragons just really weren't doing enough to take up a whole slot.
For experienced players looking at this deck for ideas to put into your own Zirilan decks, some of the more interesting interactions:
Worldgorger Dragon + Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - Tutor out worldgorger in response to removal then let worldgorger bounce everything once killed allowing Valakut to trigger on all of the mountains you presumably have. With 5 mountains it's 15 damage, with 8 it's 24, etc. It's a solid and very funny way to kill someone as a result of their own wrath.
The best card draw for a deck with less lands would be cheap stuff like Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study. Off the top of my head, here's some great draw spells at 4 mana or less:
Fact or Fiction: OP Rhystic Study: really good if it doesn't annoy everyone to the point of killing you Mystic Remora: decent and actually really strong lategame when the cumulative upkeep isn't a big deal and no one wants to pay the tax. Wheel of Fortune: You can't beat getting 7 cards for 3 mana. It's not happening. Careful Consideration: Digging 4 deep for 4 mana is pretty reasonable and the instant-speed is a nice bonus. Ceta Sanctuary: As long as you are getting the free looting every turn, this is a good card. If you are getting the draw effect as well then it's a super Phyrexian Arena, which is to say "insane". Sylvan Library: I wouldn't call this a draw spell per say but I do know I tend to pay the 4 life at least once or twice in a game so I guess it counts. It really just helps fix your draws with all the shuffle effects in green decks. This is one way to get away with a lower land count. Top is similar. Mulldrifter: Dat Evoke. Foresee: About as good as Careful Consideration. Skullclamp: I know you're not a huge fan but I love skullclamp. I play a lot of creatures and mana dorks and wouldn't ya know it- they die a lot! Especially those guys with 1 toughness like Farhaven Elf. Clamp away! Also if you haven't thought of it, Skullclamp+Squee, Goblin Nabob is a great little draw engine. 3R to draw 2 every turn? Seems good! It's really good with Fauna Shaman and Survival so as long as you're playing at least one of those, it's something to consider. Sword of Fire and Ice: If you have a lot of mana dorks like I do, there's nothing wrong with strapping a sword to one of them and turning them into a threat that draws you cards. I have always liked this card. Bonus time: gives you another way to kill guys with Skullclamp Momentous Fall: This is a fabulous copy target and can randomly just be awesome on your 6/8 Primordial about to get wrecked by a wrath or something. Greater Good: If you have a lot of big bodies then this is wonderful. I tend to play more smaller guys so it doesn't do as much for me. This pairs really well with Master Biomancer. Reforge the Soul: I know this costs 5 but with Mystical Tutor, Sylvan Library, Top, etc. you can set up the Miracle cost pretty easily, making it situationally better than Wheel of Fortune.
If you want to go bigger, in addition to Cardsphinx and Sphinx of Uthuun, there's Recurring Insight and Time Spiral at 6 mana. Insight gives you the most cards for the mana. Time Spiral is a nifty card because copying it gives you 12 land untaps. As long as you don't mind blowing up your graveyard.
Anyway that should help you come up with some more gas. All the cards I named are very playable and could find a good home in the right deck very easily. Nothing fringe in there. To try to make room for them, look carefully at cards that, when you draw them, just kind of make you go "ehhhh"... I would think Patron Wizard would be one of those but that's just me. Good luck with that and thanks again for your feedback!
Actually I had forgotten about Time Spiral, great suggestion! Especially in a combo deck that can be huge. I may very well try that. Reforge the Soul and Wheel of Fortune were also really good suggestions. I may try out Reforge the Soul as a budget option first to see if I enjoy the overall wheel effect then see if I can't pick up the spiral or wheel. There's actually one other card which someone just reminded me of earlier today that I might look into which is Scroll Rack. Paying one mana each turn for your own variable card count wheel effect seems REALLY good. Thanks again Sonik.
PS: You're right about Patron Wizard being a dead draw most of the time. I put it back into the slot until I could find something better to replace Erayo (in 8 games of having her out she NEVER flipped). If I can get my hands on one I'm going to try for a Snapcaster Mage.
Hi Sonik thanks for the feedback. You were actually more spot with that bit about Godo than you realize. I had actually put him in there only about a week prior to try him out. He and the Exoskeleton aren't in the deck anymore because the surprise factor wore off. Also because I reached my goal to play a game where I got out Sneak Attack turn 2 and then dropped him and equipped exoskeleton turn 3. (Like you mentioned, it was pretty cheeky and got a great reaction). Erayo also wasn't working as well either. As a result Patron Wizard, Consecrated Sphinx, and Arcane Denial have made their way back into the deck.
For the whole lands situation I don't think our mulls are overly indulgent. We play Paris partial with one free mull (which I thought was standard with most playgroups). Although when you think about it this could be viewed as pretty forgiving since I do know a number of players who insist on no free or partial mulls. This is something that I have questioned a lot in the past, and I still question it frequently. That's one of the reasons why I've been so interested in other forms of ramp like Omnath. You could call this deck a bit of an experiment to see if it's possible to replace two lands with only one irregular ramp card without hurting your curve too much. (Oh yeah and one other interesting interaction that Omnath brings to the table that might not be immediate apparent is bluffing/counterspells. He let's you keep your blue/green lands untapped without penalty. If everyone knows you run counterspells, they become significantly more hesitant to tap out for a combo while letting you ramp for free. It actually warps the game by quite a bit).
Anyway all of that aside, at some point I may just give in and come full circle with something like 42 lands and then start playing cards like Azusa, Lost But Seeking, Exploration, and Burgeoning to ramp into ugly comboes like Strip Mine and Crucible of Worlds (pretty sure you said you used to run this one) through card draw rather than tutor for it. Can you guess why? There's one other minor side effect of low land count: land destruction hurts. A lot.
The one problem I'm REALLY still trying to effectively solve with this deck is card draw. I need something with a lower CMC cost that acts as a powerful persistent draw engine (less than 6 so I could still play something I draw immediately). I'm thinking maybe Sylvan Library, Mind's Eye, Mystic Remora, or maybe Azami, Lady of Scrolls (I also am seriously considering the looter you suggested believe it or not, didn't know that existed). I'd like to stay away from Sword of Fire and Ice or other creature based death/damage draw since it hasn't really played well in this deck. Skullclamp is one of those to avoid as well. I had it in here for quite a long time, but it never did much for me. At this point I think I'm leaning most heavily towards the Sylvan Library, but I'm not sure yet. If you have any suggestions please by all means point them out. You've thus far done an excellent job at digging up obscure but powerful cards I've never even heard of.
Anyway thanks again Sonik. This primer has definitely made a huge difference for people looking to play Riku. I don't think I would have decided to build him if I hadn't seen your base ETB build. It's just such a fun card mechanic to build around.
is copying wash out redundant or can you choose a new color for the copy? also, can we appreciate how great wildwood rebirth is? haha
Well Wildwood Rebirth is decent, but honestly other than looking at it from a budget perspective it's completely outclassed by Regrowth or Noxious Revival.
Hey there Sonik. I've been reading through this primer over the last 3 - 4 months while working on my own take on the toolbox build. I guess you could say I took the deck and removed any of the restrictions on combo. I've tried my best to build a deck that can sit down at a table filled with other similarly broken decks and hold its own. I regularly play against generals like, but not limited to, Vendilion Clique, Arcum Daggson, Edric, Animar, and even Griselbrand and Rafellos (yes, we allow them even though they're banned).
I'm pretty much at the point where I'm ready to call this the finalized decklist, but seeing as I've been using this primer so heavily while building this, I figured I'd post this and see if I could squeeze anymore excellent advice out of you.
The deck's goals include the ability to combo hard and fast (duh), protect itself via some very powerful deterrants such as Vexing Shusher and Pact of Negation (one of your favorites), recover quickly and efficiently from boardwipes or state changes via varied and powerful ramp (although this is sort of an inherent trait of green anyway), and finally the deck needs to be able to pump out some serious swinging force for when boardstates begin to lock up. Dragonmaster Outcast, Avenger, and Baloths all handle this really well (People tend to let these resolve since they need to save their counters for the instant-win cards).
The only other changes I am considering at the moment are possibly swapping out Arcane Denial for Voidslime, and maybe looking into whether I can shove Squee, Goblin Nabob into this. I'd put Imperial Recruiter into this slot instead, but it's just so far out of budget. One other card possibly up for consideration in this slot is Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. Vendilion Clique would also be great for this 3-drop slot, but it's too pricey.
If you have any other suggestions or ideas I'd really like to hear them.
Some of the things I've already tried: Terastodon - I actually switch between this, Craterhoof, Sylvan Primordial and Woodfall Primus fairly frequently, but I'm leaning more towards Craterhoof since Terastodon/Primus/Sylvan have often been bribery targets. I think I've had them used against me more than I've actually been able to use them since they get countered so often. Vorinclex funnily enough isn't a problem though. It's rare I can't immediately kill him (when bribery'd) with a clone effect thanks to the legend rule. Plus Vorinclex rocks games when you drop him turn four via Sneak Attack and Ghostly Flicker. Everyone gets too scared to kill him once it sticks because it means leaving themselves vulnerable for two turns.
Fauna Shaman - I already have Survival in the deck which does cover this area. I actually played this for quite a while before pulling it. The issue was that I would drop it and almost always fail to untap with it due to someone finding a way to remove it. Sometimes it was a true black or white removal spell, but a lot of the time it was someone playing a Flametongue Kavu or Sower of Temptation that got it. It even got lightning bolted once! At least with Survival I can use it immediately so I usually get at least one activation out of it, plus it's an enchantment which is so much harder to kill.
Holistic Wisdom was in here for a while as well, but I eventually cut it when it was performing the least of all of my recursion. It's a great card, but it's just a little bit too costly. I usually found that when I wanted to use it most was when I lacked the necessary expendable card fuel.
Anger was in here for quite a while as well. But some 50 straight games after I put him in, I still had failed to really do much with him. Either he showed up in my hand and I didn't have a sac outlet, or he got into my yard and someone immediately dropped Tormod's Crypt on him (This is also why I don't play Genesis). Urabrask on the other hand started performing from the first game I put him in. In a dedicated combo deck having him in hand to drop after sticking a copied Palinchron makes for easy wins. Plus his secondary tap ability actually works really well as protection for when someone drops a Blightsteel and has greaves out (this is actually more common than it should be with Animar around).
I've also tried running more time warp effects as suggested earlier on in this thread. What I've found though is that after shoving three or so into the deck it starts to lose out in other areas and stops being as well-rounded. (As a sidenote I would run Temporal Manipulation, but due to budget concerns I don't own one. I did get to borrow one to try it out for a while though!)
Also, since I know you'll ask, Gilded Lotus and Mana Reflection aren't just there for ramp. They're each major combo pieces. They've won me a fair number of games by getting either one out onto the field and allowing me to go infinite.
And about running 33 lands, since I know your policy is to always run 38, what I've found is that even at 33 I really have no problems with mana. I never miss land drops unless it's late game and the deck is already thinned out, and the deck has no problem with colors or immediately ramping. I had to play a LOT of games to figure out I could do this comfortably.
And while I'm still on the topic of land, I would run Dual Lands and the other two fetchlands if I could, but due to the budget I initially set for this deck it's not really feasible. The one fetchland I have I pulled a while ago from a pack.
Since you've read this far you must be wondering how this is any fun. Combo can generally be pretty toxic right? Well actually this is where it gets really interesting. What we've found over time is that if we ever play games with our fast combo decks against regular EDH decks it does suck, HARD. But when we throw multiple evenly matched combo decks into a multiplayer game it becomes INSANELY fun. Everyone has enough power at their disposal that no one is able to hold back the cards they need to protect their own combos; instead everyone has to blow their spells on stopping everyone else from comboing. Games will easily last hours. And since anyone can combo out on any turn it always keeps you on your toes.
I've never been able to play a more mentally engaging game of magic. Tap even one land wrong and you could actually cost yourself the game. I once lost because I tapped High Market instead of a blue mana I was saving for a counterspell and had Zealous Conscripts taken from me, thereby allowing them to assemble a combo (They counterspelled my counterspell with a Force of Will).
EDIT: I've decided to bring the deck's cmc curve down and focus more on controlling opponents until combing out becomes possible. These changes should bring
the deck's overall speed and stopping power way up. The current swaps being planned.
EDIT2: Final deck after changes. Didn't swap out everything mentioned above since it became apparent it would
leave me slightly too vulnerable should I need to grind out a win. Thus stuff like Time Stretch, Craterhoof, Avenger,
etc, managed to keep their places in the deck. On the plus side, I just got to playtest Intuition, and it is a stupidly
powerful card. An absolute auto-include in this deck from here on. Also, Omnath, Locus of Mana actually serves as a real threat
in here. He acts as both fast ramp and a beater. When you combine him with Grafted Exoskeleton he
can usually one-shot people. When combined with Orochi Leafcaller Omnath's green restriction is removed
and things break fast.
I made this post both for myself and anyone interested in viewing this Riku deck I've been working on for a while. From a personal standpoint, I'll be using this thread to keep track of what I've got in here at any point in time should I ever need to deconstruct the deck. For everyone else feel free to use this to get some ideas or make suggestions, I'm all ears.
Note to self: Strongly consider removing deadeye, avenger, craterhoof, and urabrask. Need to bring the curve down more.
I've managed to find all of the cards I'm interested in and I'm in the process of cutting down
to the final 99 (This used to have 200+ cards in it). And yes, there are a number of things I have opted
not to include such as timewalk effects. Yes, they're powerful, but I'm shooting for a strong yet not
broken power level. Broken is easy to build. Strong but fun is less so.
The deck is also following a very strong theme of copying big spells for fun and profit. The day 5
Eternal Dominions show up on the stack will be a good one.
EDIT: Alright looks like this is the final list for the time being. The power level seems to be in a great spot.
The deck definitely does stuff and interacts with the boardstate, but I made sure to remove any infinite combos
to keep the power level down.
6 Melek, Izzet Paragon
Top-Deck Manipulation
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystic Speculation
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Scroll Rack
2 Telling Time
3 Crystal Ball
3 Eyes of the Watcher
Draw
3 Jace Beleren
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Concentrate
6 Niv-mizzet, the Firemind
Recursion
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Mystic Retrieval
3 Call To Mind
4 Past in Flames
Copy Effects
2 Dual Casting
2 Twincast
2 Reverberate
2 Isochron Scepter
3 Reiterate
4 Rite of Replication
4 Sakashima, the Impostor
4 Chandra, the Firebrand
Bounce Effects
2 Snap
2 Into the Roil
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Capsize
3 Wipe Away
5 Spin Into Myth
2 Counterspell
3 Dissipate
3 Hinder
3 Spell Crumple
4 Rewind
5 Desertion
6 Gather Specimens
6 Spelljack
Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
2 Muddle the Mixture
3 Fabricate
3 Trinket Mage
Ramp
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
2 Izzet Signet
3 Worn Powerstone
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Gilded Lotus
Boardwipe
5 Evacuation
9 Blasphemous Act
Misc Removal
1 Vandalblast
1 Shattering Spree
3 Chaos Warp
Wincons
2 Runechanter's Pike
4 Talrand, Sky Summoner
5 Bribery
7 Blatant Thievery
10 Eternal Dominion
2 Counterbalance
3 Guttersnipe
4 Leyline of Anticipation
5 Djinn of Wishes
5 Galvanoth
Lands - 36
1 Academy Ruins
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Command Tower
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Halimar Depths
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Shivan Reef
6 Mountain
18 Island
Echo Mage would be a great replacement for the Nivix GuildMage.
It has a slightly higher cost up front, but gets better as you invest in it.
Izzet GuildMage is also a possible replacement if you're alright with the cost restriction.
The only other possible card is Sigil Tracer, but the requirement to have wizards around to tap means you'll usually have Riku out when using this anyway. But maybe you're alright with that.
About the worldgorger, he's actually more for wrath protection. You can leave zirilan untapped and then tutor for worldgorger in response to a wrath. Gorger exiles field then wrath goes off only hitting the gorger while you sit there looking smug.
Also furyborn is fine since I'm ok with hard-casting him. I'm purposefully leaving certain slower pieces in so that this deck can be played casually. I actually have a Riku combo deck that I play which goes all out. When my playgroup is playing competitively we allow Rafellos/ Griselbrand and we also have Arcum Daggson, Vendilion Clique plus some other combo generals. Riku has no trouble playing evenly against them, so I don't need another fully powered deck. This deck is being made to play with another group of friends that plays more casually. It will have both boring slow cards like furyborn plus a few hidden combos that I'll only use in very specific situations (I probably won't ever need to use them against my casual friends, and they'll have no idea they are in there).
5 Zirilan of the Claw
Creatures(19)
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
3 Dragonspeaker Shaman
3 Magus of the Moon
6 Hellkite Tyrant
6 Steel Hellkite
6 Flameblast Dragon
6 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
6 Moonveil Dragon
6 Moltensteel Dragon
7 Hellkite Igniter
7 Kilnmouth Dragon
7 Bogardan Hellkite
7 Thunder Dragon
7 Dragon Mage
7 Balefire Dragon
8 Utvara Hellkite
10 Dragon Tyrant
16 Draco
Mana
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sol Ring
2 Fire Diamond
2 Star Compass
2 Coldsteel Heart
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Extraplanar Lens
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Gilded Lotus
5 Gauntlet of Power
6 Caged Sun
2 Ruby Medallion
3 Urza's Incubator
Untap/Recursion
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Tel-Jilad Stylus
2 Sundial of the Infinite
2 Magewright's Stone
3 Thousand-Year Elixir
Sac Outlets
0 Claws of Gix
3 Phyrexian Altar
3 Ashnod's Altar
Other
1 Skullclamp
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Illusionist's Bracers
3 Rings of Brighthearth
3 Darksteel Plate
4 Deathrender
4 Nevinyrral's Disk
Enchantments(11)
2 Braid of Fire
2 Shivan Harvest
3 Repercussion
3 Price of Glory
3 Pandemonium
3 Aggravated Assault
4 Crucible of Fire
4 Furnace of Rath
5 Gratuitous Violence
5 In the Web of War
6 Warstorm Surge
1 Shattering Spree
2 Fling
3 Fatal Frenzy
3 Rush of Blood
Planeswalkers(1)
4 Koth of the Hammer
Non-Mana Land (1)
1 Maze of Ith
Lands(34)
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 High Market
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Terrain Generator
1 Kher Keep
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Spinerock Knoll
24 Snow-Covered Mountain
3/19: Keep in mind that whatever you see is far from finished. The deck isn't even down below 100 cards right now. I'm still going through looking for good candidates for the deck.
3/25: Alright this is probably the finished version of the deck. The focus is entirely on spitting out dragons and swinging for the fences. Strong removal and most protection has been left out ON PURPOSE. This deck is meant to be strong but casual. The only infinite combo left in the deck is the infinite combat steps. Other than that I pulled everything else. (Had Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth, Worldgorger Dragon + Minion Reflector, and some other really ugly infinite recursion combos involving tutoring with Zirilan. Plus even one that involved milling everyone out via Altar of Dementia. Zirilan made most of these tutorable (hoarding dragon for the artifacts) and consistent by turn 7 if I got absolutely ZERO ramp (with ramp it was 4 or 5, and with a lucky hand could turn 2 in one very specific edge case). I already have an over the top combo deck. I (and my playgroup) don't need another.
4/6: After play-testing 10 - 15 games I made a few polish changes to tighten up the deck a bit. I added a number of additional enchantments into the deck since red has some amazing power boosters. I also added a few more mana rocks to help with the larger curve in the deck. Dropped down from 27 creatures to 22. Was finding that some of the dragons just really weren't doing enough to take up a whole slot.
For experienced players looking at this deck for ideas to put into your own Zirilan decks, some of the more interesting interactions:
Hellkite Charger/Aggravated Assault + Sword of Feast and Famine + lands - Er, just read what these do, you'll get it.
Kher Keep + Skullclamp - 4 mana (you have to tap the keep as well) for two cards on-demand every turn, and in RED?? Yes please.
Rings of Brighthearth + Zirilan/Thawing Glaciers/Thousand-Year Elixir/Shivan Harvest/Lots of Other Stuff - Rings is going in your Zirilan deck, deal with it.
Worldgorger Dragon + Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - Tutor out worldgorger in response to removal then let worldgorger bounce everything once killed allowing Valakut to trigger on all of the mountains you presumably have. With 5 mountains it's 15 damage, with 8 it's 24, etc. It's a solid and very funny way to kill someone as a result of their own wrath.
Actually I had forgotten about Time Spiral, great suggestion! Especially in a combo deck that can be huge. I may very well try that. Reforge the Soul and Wheel of Fortune were also really good suggestions. I may try out Reforge the Soul as a budget option first to see if I enjoy the overall wheel effect then see if I can't pick up the spiral or wheel. There's actually one other card which someone just reminded me of earlier today that I might look into which is Scroll Rack. Paying one mana each turn for your own variable card count wheel effect seems REALLY good. Thanks again Sonik.
PS: You're right about Patron Wizard being a dead draw most of the time. I put it back into the slot until I could find something better to replace Erayo (in 8 games of having her out she NEVER flipped). If I can get my hands on one I'm going to try for a Snapcaster Mage.
For the whole lands situation I don't think our mulls are overly indulgent. We play Paris partial with one free mull (which I thought was standard with most playgroups). Although when you think about it this could be viewed as pretty forgiving since I do know a number of players who insist on no free or partial mulls. This is something that I have questioned a lot in the past, and I still question it frequently. That's one of the reasons why I've been so interested in other forms of ramp like Omnath. You could call this deck a bit of an experiment to see if it's possible to replace two lands with only one irregular ramp card without hurting your curve too much. (Oh yeah and one other interesting interaction that Omnath brings to the table that might not be immediate apparent is bluffing/counterspells. He let's you keep your blue/green lands untapped without penalty. If everyone knows you run counterspells, they become significantly more hesitant to tap out for a combo while letting you ramp for free. It actually warps the game by quite a bit).
Anyway all of that aside, at some point I may just give in and come full circle with something like 42 lands and then start playing cards like Azusa, Lost But Seeking, Exploration, and Burgeoning to ramp into ugly comboes like Strip Mine and Crucible of Worlds (pretty sure you said you used to run this one) through card draw rather than tutor for it. Can you guess why? There's one other minor side effect of low land count: land destruction hurts. A lot.
The one problem I'm REALLY still trying to effectively solve with this deck is card draw. I need something with a lower CMC cost that acts as a powerful persistent draw engine (less than 6 so I could still play something I draw immediately). I'm thinking maybe Sylvan Library, Mind's Eye, Mystic Remora, or maybe Azami, Lady of Scrolls (I also am seriously considering the looter you suggested believe it or not, didn't know that existed). I'd like to stay away from Sword of Fire and Ice or other creature based death/damage draw since it hasn't really played well in this deck. Skullclamp is one of those to avoid as well. I had it in here for quite a long time, but it never did much for me. At this point I think I'm leaning most heavily towards the Sylvan Library, but I'm not sure yet. If you have any suggestions please by all means point them out. You've thus far done an excellent job at digging up obscure but powerful cards I've never even heard of.
Anyway thanks again Sonik. This primer has definitely made a huge difference for people looking to play Riku. I don't think I would have decided to build him if I hadn't seen your base ETB build. It's just such a fun card mechanic to build around.
Well Wildwood Rebirth is decent, but honestly other than looking at it from a budget perspective it's completely outclassed by Regrowth or Noxious Revival.
I'm pretty much at the point where I'm ready to call this the finalized decklist, but seeing as I've been using this primer so heavily while building this, I figured I'd post this and see if I could squeeze anymore excellent advice out of you.
The only other changes I am considering at the moment are possibly swapping out Arcane Denial for Voidslime, and maybe looking into whether I can shove Squee, Goblin Nabob into this. I'd put Imperial Recruiter into this slot instead, but it's just so far out of budget. One other card possibly up for consideration in this slot is Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. Vendilion Clique would also be great for this 3-drop slot, but it's too pricey.
If you have any other suggestions or ideas I'd really like to hear them.
Some of the things I've already tried:
Terastodon - I actually switch between this, Craterhoof, Sylvan Primordial and Woodfall Primus fairly frequently, but I'm leaning more towards Craterhoof since Terastodon/Primus/Sylvan have often been bribery targets. I think I've had them used against me more than I've actually been able to use them since they get countered so often. Vorinclex funnily enough isn't a problem though. It's rare I can't immediately kill him (when bribery'd) with a clone effect thanks to the legend rule. Plus Vorinclex rocks games when you drop him turn four via Sneak Attack and Ghostly Flicker. Everyone gets too scared to kill him once it sticks because it means leaving themselves vulnerable for two turns.
Fauna Shaman - I already have Survival in the deck which does cover this area. I actually played this for quite a while before pulling it. The issue was that I would drop it and almost always fail to untap with it due to someone finding a way to remove it. Sometimes it was a true black or white removal spell, but a lot of the time it was someone playing a Flametongue Kavu or Sower of Temptation that got it. It even got lightning bolted once! At least with Survival I can use it immediately so I usually get at least one activation out of it, plus it's an enchantment which is so much harder to kill.
Holistic Wisdom was in here for a while as well, but I eventually cut it when it was performing the least of all of my recursion. It's a great card, but it's just a little bit too costly. I usually found that when I wanted to use it most was when I lacked the necessary expendable card fuel.
Anger was in here for quite a while as well. But some 50 straight games after I put him in, I still had failed to really do much with him. Either he showed up in my hand and I didn't have a sac outlet, or he got into my yard and someone immediately dropped Tormod's Crypt on him (This is also why I don't play Genesis). Urabrask on the other hand started performing from the first game I put him in. In a dedicated combo deck having him in hand to drop after sticking a copied Palinchron makes for easy wins. Plus his secondary tap ability actually works really well as protection for when someone drops a Blightsteel and has greaves out (this is actually more common than it should be with Animar around).
I've also tried running more time warp effects as suggested earlier on in this thread. What I've found though is that after shoving three or so into the deck it starts to lose out in other areas and stops being as well-rounded. (As a sidenote I would run Temporal Manipulation, but due to budget concerns I don't own one. I did get to borrow one to try it out for a while though!)
Also, since I know you'll ask, Gilded Lotus and Mana Reflection aren't just there for ramp. They're each major combo pieces. They've won me a fair number of games by getting either one out onto the field and allowing me to go infinite.
And about running 33 lands, since I know your policy is to always run 38, what I've found is that even at 33 I really have no problems with mana. I never miss land drops unless it's late game and the deck is already thinned out, and the deck has no problem with colors or immediately ramping. I had to play a LOT of games to figure out I could do this comfortably.
And while I'm still on the topic of land, I would run Dual Lands and the other two fetchlands if I could, but due to the budget I initially set for this deck it's not really feasible. The one fetchland I have I pulled a while ago from a pack.
Since you've read this far you must be wondering how this is any fun. Combo can generally be pretty toxic right? Well actually this is where it gets really interesting. What we've found over time is that if we ever play games with our fast combo decks against regular EDH decks it does suck, HARD. But when we throw multiple evenly matched combo decks into a multiplayer game it becomes INSANELY fun. Everyone has enough power at their disposal that no one is able to hold back the cards they need to protect their own combos; instead everyone has to blow their spells on stopping everyone else from comboing. Games will easily last hours. And since anyone can combo out on any turn it always keeps you on your toes.
I've never been able to play a more mentally engaging game of magic. Tap even one land wrong and you could actually cost yourself the game. I once lost because I tapped High Market instead of a blue mana I was saving for a counterspell and had Zealous Conscripts taken from me, thereby allowing them to assemble a combo (They counterspelled my counterspell with a Force of Will).
5 Riku of Two Reflections
Creatures - 29
1 Goblin Welder
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Bloom Tender
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Yavimaya Dryad
3 Wood Elves
3 Eternal Witness
3 Ertai, Wizard Adept
4 Sower of Temptation
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Archaeomancer
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Mystic Snake
5 Mulldrifter
5 Zealous Conscripts
5 Acidic Slime
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Seedborn Muse
5 Urabrask the Hidden
6 Godo, Bandit Warlord
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Deadeye Navigator
7 Palinchron
7 Avenger of Zendikar
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
8 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Survival of the Fittest
3 Fabricate
4 Birthing Pod
4 Defense of the Heart
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
7 Tooth and Nail
Removal
3 Krosan Grip
3 Chaos Warp
3 Beast Within
7 All Is Dust
Support
0 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
2 Arcane Denial
3 Ghostly Flicker
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Turnabout
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Grafted Exoskeleton
4 Sneak Attack
Recursion
2 Regrowth
3 Reiterate
3 Crystal Shard
5 Time Warp
6 Walk the Aeons
10 Time Stretch
Draw
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Rhystic Study
Ramp
1 Sol Ring
2 Manamorphose
2 Nature's Lore
3 Cultivate
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Skyshroud Claim
5 Gilded Lotus
6 Mana Reflection
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Flooded Grove
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Shivan Reef
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 High Market
1 Academy Ruins
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
3 Mountain
4 Island
5 Forest
EDIT: I've decided to bring the deck's cmc curve down and focus more on controlling opponents until combing out becomes possible. These changes should bring
the deck's overall speed and stopping power way up. The current swaps being planned.
1 Skyshroud Ranger
1 Orochi Leafcaller
2 Twincast
2 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
2 Merchant Scroll
3 Intuition
3 Omnath, Locus of Mana
3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Voidslime
3 Equilibrium
6 Guile
7 Temporal Mastery
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Goblin Welder
2 Arcane Denial
3 Crystal Shard
3 Ghostly Flicker
5 Gilded Lotus
6 Mana Reflection
7 Avenger of Zendikar
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
8 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
10 Time Stretch
EDIT2: Final deck after changes. Didn't swap out everything mentioned above since it became apparent it would
leave me slightly too vulnerable should I need to grind out a win. Thus stuff like Time Stretch, Craterhoof, Avenger,
etc, managed to keep their places in the deck. On the plus side, I just got to playtest Intuition, and it is a stupidly
powerful card. An absolute auto-include in this deck from here on. Also, Omnath, Locus of Mana actually serves as a real threat
in here. He acts as both fast ramp and a beater. When you combine him with Grafted Exoskeleton he
can usually one-shot people. When combined with Orochi Leafcaller Omnath's green restriction is removed
and things break fast.
5 Riku of Two Reflections
Creatures - 27
1 Skyshroud Ranger
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Bloom Tender
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Lotus Cobra
3 Wood Elves
3 Trinket Mage
3 Eternal Witness
3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Omnath, Locus of Mana
4 Sower of Temptation
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Archaeomancer
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Mystic Snake
5 Mulldrifter
5 Zealous Conscripts
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Urabrask the Hidden
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Deadeye Navigator
7 Palinchron
7 Avenger of Zendikar
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
Tutors
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Merchant Scroll
3 Fabricate
3 Intuition
4 Birthing Pod
4 Defense of the Heart
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
7 Tooth and Nail
3 Krosan Grip
3 Chaos Warp
3 Beast Within
Support
0 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
2 Arcane Denial
3 Voidslime
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Turnabout
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 Sneak Attack
Recursion
2 Regrowth
3 Reiterate
3 Equilibrium
5 Time Warp
6 Walk the Aeons
7 Temporal Mastery
10 Time Stretch
Draw
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ancestral Vision
2 Wheel of Fate
3 Rhystic Study
Ramp
1 Sol Ring
2 Manamorphose
2 Nature's Lore
3 Cultivate
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Skyshroud Claim
5 Gilded Lotus
Lands - 33
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Flooded Grove
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Shivan Reef
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Academy Ruins
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
3 Mountain
4 Island
5 Forest
2/18 - Swapped Baloths in for Godo, Bandit Warlord (wasn't performing) and Misty Rainforest for Reliquary Tower.
2/18 - Decided to swap out Time of Need for Green Sun's Zenith. Godo out and Baloths in tipped the scale in GSZ's favor.
2/24 - Huge parts of deck redone. Dropped Green Sun's Zenith and many others.
Notable cards added include Walk the Aeons, Oracle of Mul Daya, Pact of Negation, Sensei's Diving Top, Goblin Welder, and others.
2/26 - Deck Finished. Survival of the Fittest and Sneak Attack both traded for and added. Also added in filterlands and the other two painlands that were missing. Mystic Snake also found a spot in place of Trinket Mage.
3/10 - I give up on documenting this change by change, I'm making so many iterations and edits to the deck it's not even worth it anymore.
5 Riku of Two Reflections
Creatures - 24
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Lotus Cobra
3 Wood Elves
3 Eternal Witness
3 Azusa, Lost But Seeking
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Sower of Temptation
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Mystic Snake
5 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
5 Zealous Conscripts
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Urabrask the Hidden
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Deadeye Navigator
6 Charmbreaker Devils
7 Palinchron
7 Avenger of Zendikar
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
Tutors
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Survival of the Fittest
3 Fabricate
3 Intuition
4 Birthing Pod
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
7 Tooth and Nail
3 Krosan Grip
3 Chaos Warp
3 Beast Within
3 Capsize
Counterspells
0 Pact of Negation
1 Flusterstorm
2 Arcane Denial
3 Hinder
4 Plasm Capture
Support
4 Turnabout
4 Sneak Attack
5 Possibility Storm
Recursion
2 Regrowth
3 Crucible of Worlds
5 Time Warp
6 Time Stop
6 Walk the Aeons
7 Temporal Mastery
10 Time Stretch
Draw
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Rhystic Study
4 Fact or Fiction
Ramp
1 Sol Ring
2 Nature's Lore
3 Cultivate
3 Kodama's Reach
4 Skyshroud Claim
5 Gilded Lotus
Lands - 35
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Flooded Grove
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Shivan Reef
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Academy Ruins
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolaria West
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Mountain
4 Island
4 Forest
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
2 Sylvan Library
2 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
5 Force of Will
4 Forsee
5 Bribery
6 Time Spiral
Swap Out
6 Recurring Insight
Lands To Add
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
Hey guys how's it going?
I made this post both for myself and anyone interested in viewing this Riku deck I've been working on for a while. From a personal standpoint, I'll be using this thread to keep track of what I've got in here at any point in time should I ever need to deconstruct the deck. For everyone else feel free to use this to get some ideas or make suggestions, I'm all ears.
Note to self: Strongly consider removing deadeye, avenger, craterhoof, and urabrask. Need to bring the curve down more.