Tucking is part of the natural ebb and flow of a Commander game, and the format as a whole. Making commanders impervious to tucking is removing a crucial component of the format's many checks and balances. Commanders are the defining feature of the format, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have efficient answers.
Actually, one of the best, most satisfying plays I ever made was a Hallowed Burial that tucked the three opposing commanders. Mmmm mmmmm good.
I forgot this exists! TY sir
TheFlow - This is going to sound slightly more abrasive than I would like it to, but if people's decks are that fragile, I probably wouldn't be playing with them. Good deckbuilding is still relevant, even if it's casual. Tuck won't kill commander, the entitlement mentality some people exhibit might though.
Opposing teams can't ban Adrian Peterson (NFL), they have to adapt, they need resiliency against a particular strategy. MTG and EDH are games, games have moves and counters, strategies and foils, I find the "ugh, ban that!" mentality irritating, especially in a format that claims to govern itself with a social contract.
I propose to you that if you play in an environment where Braids.dec is likely due to the fiercely competitive nature of the environment then you should be prepared for herinsert any card on the ban list, same as you would have to be prepared for Zur, Sharuum, Oona, and other powerful generals.
My deck is a combination of cards I want to play and cards I need to play because I anticipate certain match ups.
Every card has a powerlevel that people would have to prepare for. Braids is the type of card that has no business in the command zone. I notice people were not on the un-ban Braids train until she got removed from the 99. It's just sounds like complaining to complain.
She was in the 99 but not the command zone, I had no issue TBH. Now she's banned from both and I have an issue. Is the difference lost on you?
The issue has become - "hey, if we can't do special command zone only bans then I think Braids should be legal in both zones instead of banned from both". You follow?
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
Why is Braids banned? How bad would she really be as a commander? Smokestack on demand is too oppressive? The people who want to play oppressive decks will do so, I really struggle to wrap my head around bans like this.
Yes it is. On demand AND cannot be removed from the game. When I Path Braids and then you immediately recast him without even having to use reanimation, it makes for a pretty miserable game. Sure people can play Stax decks, but when stuff like Smokestacks or Braids is immune to removal thats an issue.
If your group likes playing against that, problem easily solved. Unknown metas should not have to prepare for an immune Braids.
I propose to you that if you play in an environment where Braids.dec is likely due to the fiercely competitive nature of the environment then you should be prepared for her, same as you would have to be prepared for Zur, Sharuum, Oona, and other powerful generals.
My deck is a combination of cards I want to play and cards I need to play because I anticipate certain match ups.
If your meta agrees with the RC-banlist then you can't go with your own banlist.
The issue is that a lot of people are acting as if the entire playgroup disagrees with the banlist.
Well, that's their problem and they can always go with their own banlist because this list is not official in any way, it's just the banlist that most people decide to follow.
Well, there's the rub, isn't it? RC banlist is used in the majority of metas, it might as well be an "official" banlist. I don't doubt that some kitchen table Modern group somewhere doesn't care about Stoneforge Mystic being played, but that doesn't mean the vast majority of the Modern player-base are cool with it.
Why is Braids banned? How bad would she really be as a commander? Smokestack on demand is too oppressive? The people who want to play oppressive decks will do so, I really struggle to wrap my head around bans like this.
Well, it actually makes sense to ban her as commander, because faster Smokestack on demand is pretty oppressive. What doesn't make sense is banning her in the 99. The difference is, when you path Braids in the 99, chances are she's exiled forever. When you Path Braids the general, she goes right back into the command zone. My issue with this recent banning is that she didn't warp the meta in any meaningful way, but the RC decided it made sense to get rid of her entirely anyway. Banning things like Primetime, Trade Secrets and Worldfire make sense. Banning Braids does not.
Why is the first instinct of those most protective of the "inclusive" format to exclude?
So much this.
I didn't object to her banned as commander but the same logic applies. The people who play Braids.dec with bad intentions are either anti-social and will find themselves out of people to play with or are playing amongst sharks/spikes. Either case is a self-correcting problem.
Braids is sweet at 4 but at 6 she's kind of "meh" and at 8...fuggetaboutit. Braids as general makes <= 3 spot removal that much more valuable. Once she gets killed a few times she's effectively gone. Compare her persistent, albeit slightly weak, smokestack effect with Primetime, Sundering, and Sylvan Primordial.
The line between annoying and game-ruining is fuzzy, I think she was on the annoying side, not unlike The Abyss, Moat, or Smokestack (just some examples).
Came in here to voice an opinion of dissent and disappointment over Braids being banned. Rest of updates have little effect on me.
Why is Braids banned? How bad would she really be as a commander? Smokestack on demand is too oppressive? The people who want to play oppressive decks will do so, I really struggle to wrap my head around bans like this.
Fingers crossed we get painter's servant and Braids unbanned next time.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
NO! What this format does not need is more mana rocks that can be dropped with a turn 1 Sol Ring. We'd be seeing way too many turn 2 Baloths.
That being said, I would like to see a new variety of mana rocks that can double for something else - a la the Signets, but not necessarily a cantrip. Something in the 3CMC range.
Awww c'mon I want it!!!
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
I really like butcher of the horde in my sac-based kaalia deck. Unlimited sac outlet, cheap to cast, lifelink to work with Archangel of Thune and the multitude of lifeloss cards in black, can be cheated in with kaalia. One of my favorite spoils so far.
I'm with you. No tap or mana activation, sac for value, whats not to like?
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
Mardu Charm is nice, but the tokens thing is kind of meh.
Now Temur Charm on the other hand, is still inferior to Sultai Charm, but all of it's modes are absolutely playable. A slightly better Pit Fight, Mana Leak, or a Ferocious combat enabler on a three-mana instant friggin' RULES (even if the third mode is pretty underwhelming.) Can't wait to try it out in Riku.
I'm going to pretend crackling doom is the Mardu charm. Same CMC and instant. I wonder if doom is why the charm is so meh.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
So Lightning Angel fans got their new Lightning Angel, and it has 1 less toughness, doesn't require colorless mana...and is a guy riding a freaking giant Mantis. Me gusta. I'd never play it, but that is hilarious.
I was kinda interested in Icy Blast, but then I remembered Sleep exists.
Now, Mindswipe, I can get behind. Izzet Counterburn is a thing, if not particulary great in the format, it's still fun to toy around with.
Blast can fan out across multiple opponents.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
Most planeswalkers, but the nature of the format makes all but a few bad. They just get wiped off the board too easily, because people are eager to swing at planeswalkers because they're easy for the whole table to justify attacking, in a format where no one wants to attack anyone else for political reasons.
The same rules apply to EDH as other formats, if the PW is not protected it's just an overpriced sorcery most of the time.
I did a skim through all printed warriors, a surprising (to me) number of goblins are warriors, which may make raider's spoils clutch in a BR gobbo deck.
I'm feeling ankle shanker man, can't wait to run him in EDH.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
I forgot this exists! TY sir
TheFlow - This is going to sound slightly more abrasive than I would like it to, but if people's decks are that fragile, I probably wouldn't be playing with them. Good deckbuilding is still relevant, even if it's casual. Tuck won't kill commander, the entitlement mentality some people exhibit might though.
Opposing teams can't ban Adrian Peterson (NFL), they have to adapt, they need resiliency against a particular strategy. MTG and EDH are games, games have moves and counters, strategies and foils, I find the "ugh, ban that!" mentality irritating, especially in a format that claims to govern itself with a social contract.
I'm still hoping against all odds that we'll get Yawgmoth.
She was in the 99 but not the command zone, I had no issue TBH. Now she's banned from both and I have an issue. Is the difference lost on you?
The issue has become - "hey, if we can't do special command zone only bans then I think Braids should be legal in both zones instead of banned from both". You follow?
I propose to you that if you play in an environment where Braids.dec is likely due to the fiercely competitive nature of the environment then you should be prepared for her, same as you would have to be prepared for Zur, Sharuum, Oona, and other powerful generals.
My deck is a combination of cards I want to play and cards I need to play because I anticipate certain match ups.
I didn't object to her banned as commander but the same logic applies. The people who play Braids.dec with bad intentions are either anti-social and will find themselves out of people to play with or are playing amongst sharks/spikes. Either case is a self-correcting problem.
Braids is sweet at 4 but at 6 she's kind of "meh" and at 8...fuggetaboutit. Braids as general makes <= 3 spot removal that much more valuable. Once she gets killed a few times she's effectively gone. Compare her persistent, albeit slightly weak, smokestack effect with Primetime, Sundering, and Sylvan Primordial.
The line between annoying and game-ruining is fuzzy, I think she was on the annoying side, not unlike The Abyss, Moat, or Smokestack (just some examples).
Why is Braids banned? How bad would she really be as a commander? Smokestack on demand is too oppressive? The people who want to play oppressive decks will do so, I really struggle to wrap my head around bans like this.
Fingers crossed we get painter's servant and Braids unbanned next time.
For other creature based sweeping, I am fond of Kagemaro. For extreme sweepage, Mageta the Lion is also an option.
Awww c'mon I want it!!!
I'm with you. No tap or mana activation, sac for value, whats not to like?
I'm going to pretend crackling doom is the Mardu charm. Same CMC and instant. I wonder if doom is why the charm is so meh.
Blast can fan out across multiple opponents.
The same rules apply to EDH as other formats, if the PW is not protected it's just an overpriced sorcery most of the time.
Run some sweepers or stuff like moat or ensnaring bridge
I did a skim through all printed warriors, a surprising (to me) number of goblins are warriors, which may make raider's spoils clutch in a BR gobbo deck.
I'm feeling ankle shanker man, can't wait to run him in EDH.