Well as expected they got rid of the bridge - lol @ all those who were saying "not enough data" when it was so obviously broken.
Too bad they didn't ban more cards to make the format even more enjoyable.
So the ball goes to the next broken thing, which is IMO neoform. I think it will have the highest winrate in the next pro tour.
I'd ban cavern of souls to make counterspells playable again: mana leak, logic knot, and to a certain extent, remand (cos remand is also bad cos of the low cmc meta, not just cavern), spell snare, etc. Right now, when you think about putting counterspells into your deck, you're like, meh, if they are dead to 10% of the format, what good are these?
The game has evolved, we can accept it or ban everything to oblivion, back to battle cruiser standard levels.
I miss the days when the meta would stew for months , not just days before everyone start talking about bans.
Magic is not just the gathering of sideboards... sometimes sideboards are all it takes. At other times the upheaval is enough that
Decks must change to address the new meta.
Sideboards are a privilege to allow 60 cards to stay relatively the same.
It does not mean decks do not die and become obsolete.
That has been true since the dawn of magic as a game.
That is all.
And why are some so afraid of bans that make the format better? Too many games are ending before turn4, and that makes it boring for most people.
It can't be for pure monetary reasons, come on. If you are playing faitless looting.dek, specially hogaak.dek, it's really your fault you didn't sell the expensive pieces before the bans.
After they said in the last revision they have several combos on the watch list, I wouldn't be surprised if they went ban happy and banned and unbanned several cards. Not just 1 change, but more.
Because when I watch what Modern has become in videos like this one, oh man, I feel so bad. Will fair decks become legal again? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFFcOJH3TIk&t=329s
The question is now if just bridge will be unbanned or if hogaak will get the axe too.
And the second question is if SFM is finally leaving the list she should have left many announcements ago, but I guess they prefer to do that before a PT. So hoping it will be this time. Me myself cos I'd like to play the card and my wallet, who has many copies on modo lol.
I could say the same, the players that don't complain are the ones profitting because they play the decks that beat hogaak like hyper aggressive decks. If all we are going to have is hogaak vs antihogaak decks, the format is going to be so fun.
You can’t find me anywhere because I gave up on feeding the trolls.
Hogaak is perfectly fine, imho, and the problem are players that desperately want to run their Midrange decks or go without proper sideboard in such an environment. Hogaak is certainly strong, a Tier 1, but non ‘busted’. As recent results confirm. I can definitely see a Bridge ban if it’s going to become oppressive, but the conversion rate is nowhere near a Tier 0 for the moment.
I’ll remember that in Vintage 6-7 pieces of Grave hate is the norm. But in Modern, no, this is oppression!
"Hogaak is perfectly fine", hehe, I love that quote. Just love those words put together, so beautiful.
So where is BloodyRabbit_01 now defending Hogaak.dek, saying the meta will adapt, graveyard hate is just like removal, everything is allright, that this thread is unreadable because of all the QQ against Hogaak and a large ETC? I can't find him anywhere.
Public Mod Note
(Torpf):
Infraction for Trolling. Keep the discussions on the cards and not the players.
Wait a minute, just after the deck gets released and abused and is obviously broken and I point that out most of you call me a flamer or a troll, and now you are all saying it should get banned. LOL.
Next time, learn from the master...
Then I make 1 mistake out of 10 and people call me bad because I have a 10% failure rate. Suuuure :).
You have predicted and/or called for bans/nerfs on Tron cards, ETemple, Chalice, Past in Flames, Traverse the Ulvenwald, Dredge, and now Hogaak Bridge. That's one hit in Dredge, five misses (Tron cards, Temple, Chalice, PiF, Traverse), and one ommision (no KCI). If Hogaak gets banned, you'll be 2 for 7 or 2 for 8, depending on how you score. This is exactly what I was referring to when I talk about throwing darts at a board. If you throw enough, you are bound to hit and then give acclaim to predictive skills when the record clearly shows a less flattering hit rate.
Again, Hogaak may be capital B Busted. It may be bannable. But that doesn't mean we change proven ban prediction methods because the hysteria and alarm was right one time in 10+.
You are exaggerating that by a mile, and you know that. Chalice was chalice OR temple when dumbdrazi was dominating the meta. Same for a piece of storm when it was comboing very often on turn3. KCI I wasn't even playing the game. You also forgot when I talked ***** against twin (even though I did not think wizards would ban it, I liked and agreed with the ban), and also forgetting most other bans I also was spot on, from punishing fire to birthing pod. But I guess you memory is waaaay better when it comes to "mistakes". I say "mistakes" but I don't think they were mistakes because I'm sure they were cards on the watch list and discussed during the B/R meetings.
Oh and Tron is just based on a wish of a meta change because its existence kills so many decks, but since it hasn't broken any win% records it has not been touched. But everyone knows they could have banned stirrings very easily based on the same statements of preordain and ponder. So many decks use stirrings to find their pieces that it's not even a case of having to build your deck around it anymore. It's just the last legal OP top or your library cantrip.
Wait a minute, just after the deck gets released and abused and is obviously broken and I point that out most of you call me a flamer or a troll, and now you are all saying it should get banned. LOL.
Next time, learn from the master...
Then I make 1 mistake out of 10 and people call me bad because I have a 10% failure rate. Suuuure :).
Public Mod Note
(Xaricore):
Infraction issued for trolling — Xaricore
Of course it is not warping! Who told you that?!
It's like when in extended old dredge was reigning supreme and everyone was packing 4 leylines in the sideboard.
Surgical extraction, a card that is very bad against nongraveyard decks, is seeing maindeck play everywhere. It was already seeing MD play before bridgevine, and dredge and phoenix were already borderline warping the format, but was somewhat acceptable. Now with hogaak it's like double the warpage.
But don't worry, need more data, the meta wil adapt. In 2 weeks we have the SCG and GP modern tournaments. I'm excited to see the lists that bridgevine puts in the top32 and how much MD and SB graveyard hate all decks pack, including bridgevine itself.
Wizards has to act somehow, because the upcoming PT will be a mess.
Why? They have said numerous times that this is healthy. They're flatly wrong, but that's at least what people who run the format, and don't play the format, believe.
Well, it was healthy 1 month ago, they were right, and a bridge ban will make Modern healthy again. Plus FoN will make it more fair.
Are you serious? We cleeeearly need more data. The sky is not falling!!
I’m playing Bloo since the metagame shifted, and I can assure you that Force of Negation is bonkers against it. I’m currently 4-0 against Altarvine.
All I see is signs of a healthy metagame! Hmm, the metagame is indeed adapting, bloo is a great deck to represent Modern and be a tier1 deck. Hogaak 50% metashare, bloo 20%, etc. Niiiice :). Finally a format that rewards interaction and not just play solitary hoping to kill the opponent before he kills you!! Oh, and the hate cards lottery, oh boy, that makes it even better! Who likes the hogaak vs hogaak decided by who draws more leylines and whispmares? I do!
Re: graveyard hate prevalence
To some extent, there isn't anything necessarily wrong with maindeck or prevalent graveyard hate. It's not like the graveyard is a niche resource anymore. There are so many strategies which use it to some extent. I expect sweepers are dead in fewer matchups than graveyard hate, which doesn't mean the format is broken, but does mean we need to recognize the graveyard as an important gameplay element. The problem arises in two situations. First, it comes up when decks have too much graveyard hate. This is the Mirrodin-era precedent with artifact hate. It's probably fine to have 2-3 MD GY hate spells and maybe 1-2 more in the SB. But requiring 8 is probably too many and a sign of warping. Second, we face a problem when drawing that GY hate is the only way to win a matchup. This is Wizards' initial ban rationale in the GGT ban, that games come down to who draws GY hate and who draws the counter to GY hate. If that is happening on a significant scale, that's also a problem.
I'm not sure this is still valid. After all new Dredge is better than old Dredge, is even harder to interact with (Chill) and can win as early as Turn 3.
I believe that the artificial push of 'diversity' has lead to Wizard allowing decks that would have been banned based on older belief's to continue. Dredge, Phoenix, etc, and if not for people vocally complaining about KCI, even it would have remained.
Hogaak is certainly looking unbeatable if you do not draw hate, or have your own Turn 3 kill, based on everything I've seen so far.
Here is one of the games from the winner of the Modern Challenge btw, he says the only thing that slowed him was Leyline.
The obvious brokenness doesn't matter, we need MORE DATA!
Semi finals:
Hogaak vs Hogaak
Hogaak vs Mono red phoenix
Everything is perfectly fine.
No need to panic.
Need more data.
The meta will adjust.
Just play 4+ graveyard hate maindeck (dooesn't matter if you lose to humans or uw control because of that).
You are just a crying baby... bridge is fine, stop de QQ.
Too bad they didn't ban more cards to make the format even more enjoyable.
So the ball goes to the next broken thing, which is IMO neoform. I think it will have the highest winrate in the next pro tour.
And why are some so afraid of bans that make the format better? Too many games are ending before turn4, and that makes it boring for most people.
It can't be for pure monetary reasons, come on. If you are playing faitless looting.dek, specially hogaak.dek, it's really your fault you didn't sell the expensive pieces before the bans.
Because when I watch what Modern has become in videos like this one, oh man, I feel so bad. Will fair decks become legal again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFFcOJH3TIk&t=329s
Bans: bridge and/or hogaak and/or looting and/or neoform.
Unbans: sfm or nothing.
And the second question is if SFM is finally leaving the list she should have left many announcements ago, but I guess they prefer to do that before a PT. So hoping it will be this time. Me myself cos I'd like to play the card and my wallet, who has many copies on modo lol.
"Hogaak is perfectly fine", hehe, I love that quote. Just love those words put together, so beautiful.
You are exaggerating that by a mile, and you know that. Chalice was chalice OR temple when dumbdrazi was dominating the meta. Same for a piece of storm when it was comboing very often on turn3. KCI I wasn't even playing the game. You also forgot when I talked ***** against twin (even though I did not think wizards would ban it, I liked and agreed with the ban), and also forgetting most other bans I also was spot on, from punishing fire to birthing pod. But I guess you memory is waaaay better when it comes to "mistakes". I say "mistakes" but I don't think they were mistakes because I'm sure they were cards on the watch list and discussed during the B/R meetings.
Oh and Tron is just based on a wish of a meta change because its existence kills so many decks, but since it hasn't broken any win% records it has not been touched. But everyone knows they could have banned stirrings very easily based on the same statements of preordain and ponder. So many decks use stirrings to find their pieces that it's not even a case of having to build your deck around it anymore. It's just the last legal OP top or your library cantrip.
Next time, learn from the master...
Then I make 1 mistake out of 10 and people call me bad because I have a 10% failure rate. Suuuure :).
It's like when in extended old dredge was reigning supreme and everyone was packing 4 leylines in the sideboard.
Surgical extraction, a card that is very bad against nongraveyard decks, is seeing maindeck play everywhere. It was already seeing MD play before bridgevine, and dredge and phoenix were already borderline warping the format, but was somewhat acceptable. Now with hogaak it's like double the warpage.
But don't worry, need more data, the meta wil adapt. In 2 weeks we have the SCG and GP modern tournaments. I'm excited to see the lists that bridgevine puts in the top32 and how much MD and SB graveyard hate all decks pack, including bridgevine itself.
Are you serious? We cleeeearly need more data. The sky is not falling!!
All I see is signs of a healthy metagame! Hmm, the metagame is indeed adapting, bloo is a great deck to represent Modern and be a tier1 deck. Hogaak 50% metashare, bloo 20%, etc. Niiiice :). Finally a format that rewards interaction and not just play solitary hoping to kill the opponent before he kills you!! Oh, and the hate cards lottery, oh boy, that makes it even better! Who likes the hogaak vs hogaak decided by who draws more leylines and whispmares? I do!
The obvious brokenness doesn't matter, we need MORE DATA!
Everything is perfectly fine.
No need to panic.
Need more data.
The meta will adjust.
Just play 4+ graveyard hate maindeck (dooesn't matter if you lose to humans or uw control because of that).
You are just a crying baby... bridge is fine, stop de QQ.