I can imagine there emerging a synergy-based deck finding just the right combination of 1-drop, 2-drop and 3-drop to make this card perform well. A graveyard subtheme is a given with the existence of Golgari in the block.
Anyone else think the set symbol looks like a foteress's gate?
It's towers with walkways bridging the space in-between. From someone going underneath the bridge that's like a tunnel/gate. So, yeah. It's not quite Gatecrash, but thematically that is what the symbol is meant to invoke.
To make this better or on par with Jund then don't we have to change our philosophy of what Esper can offer? The primary reason to add black right now in a deck like this would be to add the trio of 1cc power: Fatal Push, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek.
What makes white blue, white black and blue black push it over the edge? Tidehollow Sculler and Geist of Saint Traft come to mind?
To make that work, we would need some disruption before that, or card advantage after that? I think a creature version would be good with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
After all this, we need to come up with a plan to keep the momentum going or at least strike hard and fast? I was thinking Death's Shadow which makes Ranger of Eos better, but can we really justify it?
I hope I gave enough of a stepping stone to find a new path for Esper Midrange?
I am a judge and I received those fancy Terese Nielson Full art Foil Basics. They are worth a considerable amount.
The issue here is that I do not play anymore.
I was offered the following.
1x Theros Booster Box
1x Journey into Nyx / Born of the Gods Booster Box
+ Random cards and some cash
OR:
1x Standard Mono Black Devotion deck. the one that was good in February. (includes mutas and thoughtseizes)
What is your opinion on it? Please note I am not planning on restarting playing magic but having a deck around when I judge small events might be okay. dunno really.
The possibility of dropping Ashiok T3, grabbing something like a Stormbreath Dragon, D. Demon or Blood Baron off of the top of your opponents deck and dropping that on T4 in addition to dropping another threat using your own mana could be pretty back breaking.
Instead of cutting all NVS what about 1 NVS, 1 D. Demon, and something else?
It is back-breaking, I have stolen that D Demon and cast one myself turn 4 on the draw. My opponent kept a hand of removal to counter my threats, but he was not prepared for Ashiok.
I stole a Polukranos with Ashiok and stole a green land (stomping Ground) with NVS in the same turn, needless to say I blew my opponent out of the water that game.
I was lucky, but when Ashiok was it it's worst, I gained 5-9 life while setting myself up for the win. Ashiok has a hidden attribute in that it sometimes creates heavy play mistakes in your opponent. I have had it twice where attacking Ashiok was not necessary but done anyway, and more often than not they ignored it and saw a monster/demon/master of waves beating down the following turn.
It's fascinating that you didn't have problems with your 3-drops. I guess your Mutavaults count as lands for the Connections and Lifebanes, but 20 B should only give you BBB on T3 about 64% of the time; 8 U should give you one by T3 75% -- give or take 3-6% for scry and drawing first. Maybe the unlikelihood of drawing the card you're trying to cast T3 (Nightveil/Ashiok) played in your favor, too.
Here's a thought: why not just play Ashiok instead of Specter? We'd lose some devotion points, but he essentially does the same job otherwise, only better.
I'm pretty iffy about the 1BB demon from BNG in this deck. It's an awesome card, but we're already "using life as a resource" a lot more than most decks.
I will say maybe luck played a part? I understand statistics and remember I only play 9 rounds and roughly 22 games with it and around 3-4 times I might have struggled a bit. Remember by turn 3 I could cast one of the following things (with good circumstances): Ashiok, Nightveil or Underworld Connections. Rat plus Thoughtseize. Turn 3 is the big turn in this deck and I hardly had any issues. Remember that situation in the game is also relevant and statistics do not account for that...
Nightveil and Ashiok together are powerhouses, I wouldn't recommend getting rid of any to favour the other.
The demon is an iffy one, but I'd try it.
I've tried Ashiok many times because I really want him to work. If he sticks he does great work but that can be said for almost any card in the game. But the truth is he does pretty fast most times I've dropped him. Tbh I would rather splash red and run slaughter games and RR
I saw the Red Splash at the PTQ and I liked it a lot, ultimately it's up to personal preference I believe. At worst Ashiok is an extra draw or two. Also, Ashiok is a HOUSE late game.
I love your list and I've been thinking about running very similar. My questions to you are 1) did youbrun into any issues having the 3-spot so clogged up (15 3-cmc drops) and 2) How did you side in various matchups. Ie when did you find Ashiok had to come out, when did far/away come in, etc
Hi, Read my response on the Blue Splash thread.
tl;dr
No clogging; Far // Away came in few and far apart, so I am going to revise that one.
Interesting idea to include Ashiok. It looks like you posted some good results. What inspired this decision, and how do you feel it's an improvement over the more conventional mono-black?
It took me a minute to realize you dropped down to 24 lands. With 4 of them Mutavault, you've only got 20 black sources, 8 of which are also blue. Seems like a shaky mana base for Ashiok and Nightveil, when you break down the statistics. Numbers are what they are; how has this deck run when you couldn't cast one of those spells on T3, and has it affected your mulligan strategy?
Also, what made you decide to cut a 2-drop Pack Rat (which can take over a game) instead of 3-drop Nightveil to insert more 3-drops?
I like the idea of adding another disruption/win strategy to the B devotion shell, and I'm very interested to read your responses to the above.
I might have upped the land count up by one only after the Quarter-Finals when I really needed the 5th land drop on turn 5, but got on turn 6 and won it anyway.
In hindsight though, the Pack Rat was sided in most of the time so yes, I would have preferred a 4Rat/3Veil split as you said.
I never had problems casting the 3drops (never got clogged up.)
The matches where Lifebane Zombies are great, Ashiok is lacking a bit.
You'd be surprised how often you get that blue splash needed. The only thing I didn't like is that one game I couldn't curve nicely into Nightveil (this will be replaced with the new 3/3 flying Demon for 1BB.)
Obviously Ashiok is the main talking point.
Ashiok won me my games vs. the Mono B and Mono U devotion decks.
And gained me psuedo life in games 1 against the Selesnya Decks. Unfortunately I didn't draw nuts after casting Ashiok so I lost it.
I threw the DEGA Control Deck off to the point he didn't know what to swing at until after I exiled BB and he actually read the second ability.
Mono B
Game 1: Stole a Desecration Demon while casting my own on the same turn. Scooped.
Game 2: Exiled 2 Demons and a Pack Rat (with 2 activations) before I started stealing those creatures. This is on top of me casting two Nightveil Specters.
Mono U
Game 1:
Ashiok stole a Cloudfin and a Master of Waves (making 4 tokens in the end.) so that I could fend off a 9 elemental, Master of Waves, 2x judge's familiar and a cloudfin evolved twice attack.
Game 2:
It stole a Nightveil Specter so that I could Gray Merchant ftw with two Specters out.
As is in many large events, luck plays small role, but I piloted well and the deck was good to me.
My Road:
2-1 W to a WBR Control deck, he ended up top 20.
2-0 W to a Mono B Devotion deck, dropped after 5 rounds.
2-0 W to a Mono U Devotion deck, which ended up second after swiss.
2-1 W to a Selesnya Goodstuff deck, he ended up 5-2, but man that deck was good.
1-1 ID to my friend. He was playing RW Aggro.
2-0 W to a R/G Monsters deck. Bad keeps was his downfall.
1-1 ID to another friend and guarantee top 8 at 8th. He was playing BW Humans.
Quarter-Finals:
2-1 W
I played against the BW Humans guy that I ID'ed to in the last round.
Semi-Finals:
0-2 L
I lost to another Selesnya Goodstuff deck this time piloted by an aggro genius.
He went on to lose in the Finals against American Control.
My Road:
2-1 W to a WBR Control deck, he ended up top 20.
2-0 W to a Mono B Devotion deck, dropped after 5 rounds.
2-0 W to a Mono U Devotion deck, which ended up second after swiss.
2-1 W to a Selesnya Goodstuff deck, he ended up 5-2, but man that deck was good.
1-1 ID to my friend. He was playing RW Aggro.
2-0 W to a R/G Monsters deck. Bad keeps was his downfall.
1-1 ID to another friend and guarantee top 8 at 8th. He was playing BW Humans.
Quarter-Finals:
2-1 W
I played against the BW Humans guy that I ID'ed to in the last round.
Semi-Finals:
0-2 L
I lost to another Selesnya Goodstuff deck this time piloted by an aggro genius.
He went on to lose in the Finals against American Control.
not sure i like crypt incursion in the board. seems counter productive if your using 4 angers when u side it in. maybe consider a 3rd rakdos return and skullcrack over them. rakdos charm has its applications but i would rather it be dark betrayal since the black decks are so prevalent atm. i personally would not take this to a ptq without some serious playtesting/finetuning. if you are that worried about the early turns you might consider finding room for some number of shocks. might make a world of difference in some match-ups.
Aah, well that's great news.
Shock sounds good. I have noticed that that a lot of the 1 drops have 1 on their butts (save for cackler) wouldn't Spark Jolt be good here?
Crypt Incursion was actually removed last night for Lifebane Zombies.
Bringer of the White Dawn and Mindslaver
What makes white blue, white black and blue black push it over the edge? Tidehollow Sculler and Geist of Saint Traft come to mind?
To make that work, we would need some disruption before that, or card advantage after that? I think a creature version would be good with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
After all this, we need to come up with a plan to keep the momentum going or at least strike hard and fast? I was thinking Death's Shadow which makes Ranger of Eos better, but can we really justify it?
I hope I gave enough of a stepping stone to find a new path for Esper Midrange?
I am a judge and I received those fancy Terese Nielson Full art Foil Basics. They are worth a considerable amount.
The issue here is that I do not play anymore.
I was offered the following.
1x Theros Booster Box
1x Journey into Nyx / Born of the Gods Booster Box
+ Random cards and some cash
OR:
1x Standard Mono Black Devotion deck. the one that was good in February. (includes mutas and thoughtseizes)
What is your opinion on it? Please note I am not planning on restarting playing magic but having a deck around when I judge small events might be okay. dunno really.
I'm leaning towards the boxes though.
It is back-breaking, I have stolen that D Demon and cast one myself turn 4 on the draw. My opponent kept a hand of removal to counter my threats, but he was not prepared for Ashiok.
I stole a Polukranos with Ashiok and stole a green land (stomping Ground) with NVS in the same turn, needless to say I blew my opponent out of the water that game.
I was lucky, but when Ashiok was it it's worst, I gained 5-9 life while setting myself up for the win. Ashiok has a hidden attribute in that it sometimes creates heavy play mistakes in your opponent. I have had it twice where attacking Ashiok was not necessary but done anyway, and more often than not they ignored it and saw a monster/demon/master of waves beating down the following turn.
I will say maybe luck played a part? I understand statistics and remember I only play 9 rounds and roughly 22 games with it and around 3-4 times I might have struggled a bit. Remember by turn 3 I could cast one of the following things (with good circumstances): Ashiok, Nightveil or Underworld Connections. Rat plus Thoughtseize. Turn 3 is the big turn in this deck and I hardly had any issues. Remember that situation in the game is also relevant and statistics do not account for that...
Nightveil and Ashiok together are powerhouses, I wouldn't recommend getting rid of any to favour the other.
The demon is an iffy one, but I'd try it.
I saw the Red Splash at the PTQ and I liked it a lot, ultimately it's up to personal preference I believe. At worst Ashiok is an extra draw or two. Also, Ashiok is a HOUSE late game.
Hi, Read my response on the Blue Splash thread.
tl;dr
No clogging; Far // Away came in few and far apart, so I am going to revise that one.
I might have upped the land count up by one only after the Quarter-Finals when I really needed the 5th land drop on turn 5, but got on turn 6 and won it anyway.
In hindsight though, the Pack Rat was sided in most of the time so yes, I would have preferred a 4Rat/3Veil split as you said.
I never had problems casting the 3drops (never got clogged up.)
The matches where Lifebane Zombies are great, Ashiok is lacking a bit.
You'd be surprised how often you get that blue splash needed. The only thing I didn't like is that one game I couldn't curve nicely into Nightveil (this will be replaced with the new 3/3 flying Demon for 1BB.)
Obviously Ashiok is the main talking point.
Ashiok won me my games vs. the Mono B and Mono U devotion decks.
And gained me psuedo life in games 1 against the Selesnya Decks. Unfortunately I didn't draw nuts after casting Ashiok so I lost it.
I threw the DEGA Control Deck off to the point he didn't know what to swing at until after I exiled BB and he actually read the second ability.
Mono B
Game 1: Stole a Desecration Demon while casting my own on the same turn. Scooped.
Game 2: Exiled 2 Demons and a Pack Rat (with 2 activations) before I started stealing those creatures. This is on top of me casting two Nightveil Specters.
Mono U
Game 1:
Ashiok stole a Cloudfin and a Master of Waves (making 4 tokens in the end.) so that I could fend off a 9 elemental, Master of Waves, 2x judge's familiar and a cloudfin evolved twice attack.
Game 2:
It stole a Nightveil Specter so that I could Gray Merchant ftw with two Specters out.
As is in many large events, luck plays small role, but I piloted well and the deck was good to me.
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
4x Mutavault
12x Swamp
Creatures:
3x Pack Rat
4x Nightveil Specter
4x Desecration Demon
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Non-Creature Spells:
4x Thoughtseize
4x Devour Flesh
2x Pharika's Cure
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Underworld Connection
1x Pack Rate
4x Lifebane Zombie
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Duress
2x Doom Blade
3x Far // Away
My Road:
2-1 W to a WBR Control deck, he ended up top 20.
2-0 W to a Mono B Devotion deck, dropped after 5 rounds.
2-0 W to a Mono U Devotion deck, which ended up second after swiss.
2-1 W to a Selesnya Goodstuff deck, he ended up 5-2, but man that deck was good.
1-1 ID to my friend. He was playing RW Aggro.
2-0 W to a R/G Monsters deck. Bad keeps was his downfall.
1-1 ID to another friend and guarantee top 8 at 8th. He was playing BW Humans.
Quarter-Finals:
2-1 W
I played against the BW Humans guy that I ID'ed to in the last round.
Semi-Finals:
0-2 L
I lost to another Selesnya Goodstuff deck this time piloted by an aggro genius.
He went on to lose in the Finals against American Control.
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Watery Grave
4x Mutavault
12x Swamp
Creatures:
3x Pack Rat
4x Nightveil Specter
4x Desecration Demon
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Non-Creature Spells:
4x Thoughtseize
4x Devour Flesh
2x Pharika's Cure
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Underworld Connection
1x Pack Rate
4x Lifebane Zombie
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Duress
2x Doom Blade
3x Far // Away
My Road:
2-1 W to a WBR Control deck, he ended up top 20.
2-0 W to a Mono B Devotion deck, dropped after 5 rounds.
2-0 W to a Mono U Devotion deck, which ended up second after swiss.
2-1 W to a Selesnya Goodstuff deck, he ended up 5-2, but man that deck was good.
1-1 ID to my friend. He was playing RW Aggro.
2-0 W to a R/G Monsters deck. Bad keeps was his downfall.
1-1 ID to another friend and guarantee top 8 at 8th. He was playing BW Humans.
Quarter-Finals:
2-1 W
I played against the BW Humans guy that I ID'ed to in the last round.
Semi-Finals:
0-2 L
I lost to another Selesnya Goodstuff deck this time piloted by an aggro genius.
He went on to lose in the Finals against American Control.
Aah, well that's great news.
Shock sounds good. I have noticed that that a lot of the 1 drops have 1 on their butts (save for cackler) wouldn't Spark Jolt be good here?
Crypt Incursion was actually removed last night for Lifebane Zombies.
This is my new board:
2 Dark Betrayal
1 Duress
2 Doom Blade
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Slaughter Games
1 Sire of Insanity
This is what I am going to play at the upcoming PTQ in South Africa. There will be a ton of Aggro decks. (Selesnya and Boros.)
Is there any advise on this list?
Testing shows good results, but I feel like I need stronger Card Advantage.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Rakdos Guildgate
7 Swamp
Creatures:
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Stormbreath Dragon
Enchantments:
3 Underworld Connections
Artifacts:
2 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
Sorceries:
4 Thoughtseize
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
1 Duress
2 Doom Blade
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Skullcrack
1 Ultimate Price
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Slaughter Games
1 Sire of Insanity
But it's good if you are ahead in creature killing.
Serra Angel, Sengir Vampire
Edit: 'Nathed