Howdy, so I've been running/brewing a bUG defender mill.
Started almost exactly along the same lines as you have here, but it evolved to keep me alive better against agro early and utilize the mana generation more fully midgame
The Prophets make a Doorkeepers mill for 6 (easy to get) into 12 a turn and the flash is a nice touch. The mana this can generate gets silly and being able to sink that into either a Mind Grind or, my favorite, pumping 9 through Duskmantle Guildmage and hitting the enemy for 6 cards and 18 life.
I love Ashiok, but it keeps coming out.
Sideboard of Deathrite Shaman has worked well for me in place of the Scavenging Oozes that I haven't traded for yet. Crypt Incursion, Undercity Informer, Destroy the Evidence and Psychic Strike are side as well as Simic Charm
I scrubbed out at a SCG event with a similar deck to the post above (too many draws on time vs control), big differences were that I ran 2 Slaughter games main, (confident in my ability to call the right card by T4) , I had a 3/3 split on Hero's Downfall and Dreadbore, and I sided Counterflux.
YMMV but my Learnings :
»I only ever regretted drawing a slaughter Games against gruul
»Control, black devotion and white/Boros agro were good matchups but colossal gruul or G devotion were ·terrible·.
Domri, Garruk, and Xenagos each are a big problem and even my 6 PW kills and 6 counters weren't enough to do it. Even gaining 51 life off of an incursion didn't help that matchup
»The Baconator is great, but I found Cyclonic Rift more helpful if removal can't keep up
» I agree with Nev, Traumatize is really sweet on turn 5 or six, but its Seriously diminishing returns make it not worth running enough to draw it on time regularly
»I had significant later success running less removal and more "coping" in the form of hover barrier, Wall of Frost and Doorkeeper. Sounds terrible, but there is a big benefit to incremental mill on top of defensive capability, leaving removal only needed for a few serious threats instead of everything being potentially lethal. Having a per-turn mill of 12 ( 4-6 from Doorkeeper, 3 from Ashiok and 2-10 from Jace, Breaking or any other source) is common.
So, I had built out a U-devotion mill deck - similar thoughts to poster above just more "controlly" and using typical nightveil weird, etc
After playtesting though, I found too many faults vs monoblue for my comfort - not to mention that one underlay with threat plus a dead top-level was game over
I ended up in bUG mill, less ramp more defense and inevitability - (typing on a cellphone so please pardon if I screw up deck tags)
4 [Sylvan Caryatid]
4 [Axebane Guardian]
4 [Doorkeeper]
4 [Hover Barrier]
3 [Trestle Troll]
3 [Prophet of Kruphix]
1 [Ashiok, nightmare Weaver]
3 [Deathrite Shaman]
2 [Mind Grind]
2-3 [Jace, Memory Adept]
4 [Golgari Charm]
1 [Opportunity]
2 [Syncopate]
Exactly the lands you'd expect with sideboard cards of
[Slasher]
[AETHERIZE]
[Cyclonic Rift]
[SYNCOPATE]
[Immortal Servitude]
[Psychic Strike]
Food for thought, as a potential alternative if you want to consider
Hopefully this doesn't count as hijacking your thread, but I've got a related but dissimilar approach to Theros-standard Dimir control. I've been out of tourney-level play for some years, so would love any constructive feedback.
Oriented towards early board & tempo control and no mill at all.
Use early disruption/killers (16 useable by T2), then drops Ashiok, or Nightveil on T3, followed by either the standard Desecration Demon on T4 or two 2cc control spells. Then just need to maintain pressure, which Thassa helps maintain.
Thassa's activated ability is relevant - ups the threat level of the Nightveil, Demon or borrowed threat immensely. Control can't let them both live -
As Thoras mentioned, Nightveil is actually pretty insane. I'm still debating when to take him out... he dies instantly when he hits the board against burn but 3-4 less damage to my dome or Ashiok's is worst case.
Ashiok is a must counter/must kill. Midrange B/W, RBW Mythic or UW control midrange all HAVE to counter or kill it before it activates the second time. Exiling an Ebzedat, BBOV, Prognistic Sphinx on T3 is a serious threat. Not to mention they only run a few, big hitters, enough of those gone and it's game. Her Ultimate really should never come into play unless they are doing some turbo-fog variant.
The Downfalls are intended to be saved for PW if possible - being able to kill a PW before it uses it's ability is huge.
I expect that people will say the Shores and Nykthos are "cute" - but being able to play those spells or activate the abilities turns cute into seriously annoying threat. I'm considering running an extra Steam Vents and Sacred Foundry to be able to add CttR to the list of steal-ables.
The one-of that I expect to get some flack is Glaring Spotlight - but having it in play changes the face of the board. Significantly. I want to run 2, but... yeah.
What is definitely missing is draw - but anything that costs life is unbearable against true agro. Side Erebos in vs control, B/W or Midrange mythic though.
As for Dimir Charm - all three of it's uses are valid. If nothing else, setting up their next draw to what I want them to have is always useful. Not to mention the bonus instant-speed choosing what I'm going to exile with either a Specter or Ashiok.
I tried Time Ebb and Griptide - And while I truly enjoyed bouncing a Purphoros, exiling him and then playing him, they don't measure up at the cc to the more flexible options.
Oddly enough, the single biggest problem card I've had so far is Heliod's Spear. Few enough threats in my deck that I can stall if each only hits them once. Spotlight solves that for a big swing, but otherwise I have to Rift or Ratchet it.
Thoughts?
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Started almost exactly along the same lines as you have here, but it evolved to keep me alive better against agro early and utilize the mana generation more fully midgame
I know that thus isn't quite right from memory, but close.
[DECK]
3 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Golgari Charm
2 Duskmantle Guildmage
2 Trestle Troll
4 Hover Barrier
1 Opportunity
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Axebane Guardian
4 Doorkeeper
2 Triton Tactics
2 Syncopate
2 Mind Grind
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Deathrite Shaman
22 Lands
The Prophets make a Doorkeepers mill for 6 (easy to get) into 12 a turn and the flash is a nice touch. The mana this can generate gets silly and being able to sink that into either a Mind Grind or, my favorite, pumping 9 through Duskmantle Guildmage and hitting the enemy for 6 cards and 18 life.
I love Ashiok, but it keeps coming out.
Sideboard of Deathrite Shaman has worked well for me in place of the Scavenging Oozes that I haven't traded for yet. Crypt Incursion, Undercity Informer, Destroy the Evidence and Psychic Strike are side as well as Simic Charm
YMMV but my Learnings :
»I only ever regretted drawing a slaughter Games against gruul
»Control, black devotion and white/Boros agro were good matchups but colossal gruul or G devotion were ·terrible·.
Domri, Garruk, and Xenagos each are a big problem and even my 6 PW kills and 6 counters weren't enough to do it. Even gaining 51 life off of an incursion didn't help that matchup
»The Baconator is great, but I found Cyclonic Rift more helpful if removal can't keep up
» I agree with Nev, Traumatize is really sweet on turn 5 or six, but its Seriously diminishing returns make it not worth running enough to draw it on time regularly
»I had significant later success running less removal and more "coping" in the form of hover barrier, Wall of Frost and Doorkeeper. Sounds terrible, but there is a big benefit to incremental mill on top of defensive capability, leaving removal only needed for a few serious threats instead of everything being potentially lethal. Having a per-turn mill of 12 ( 4-6 from Doorkeeper, 3 from Ashiok and 2-10 from Jace, Breaking or any other source) is common.
After playtesting though, I found too many faults vs monoblue for my comfort - not to mention that one underlay with threat plus a dead top-level was game over
I ended up in bUG mill, less ramp more defense and inevitability - (typing on a cellphone so please pardon if I screw up deck tags)
4 [Sylvan Caryatid]
4 [Axebane Guardian]
4 [Doorkeeper]
4 [Hover Barrier]
3 [Trestle Troll]
3 [Prophet of Kruphix]
1 [Ashiok, nightmare Weaver]
3 [Deathrite Shaman]
2 [Mind Grind]
2-3 [Jace, Memory Adept]
4 [Golgari Charm]
1 [Opportunity]
2 [Syncopate]
Exactly the lands you'd expect with sideboard cards of
[Slasher]
[AETHERIZE]
[Cyclonic Rift]
[SYNCOPATE]
[Immortal Servitude]
[Psychic Strike]
Food for thought, as a potential alternative if you want to consider
Oriented towards early board & tempo control and no mill at all.
Use early disruption/killers (16 useable by T2), then drops Ashiok, or Nightveil on T3, followed by either the standard Desecration Demon on T4 or two 2cc control spells. Then just need to maintain pressure, which Thassa helps maintain.
4 Desecration Demon
4 Nightveil Specter
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
Planeswalkers:
4 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
Spells:
4 Dimir Charm
3 Devour Flesh
4 Thoughseize
4 Far // Away
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Glaring Spotlight
Lands:
4 Watery Grave
2 Temple of Deceit
2 Unknown Shores
1 Nykthos, Shrine of Nix
1 Steam Vents
7 Island
6 Swamp
4 Omenspeaker
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Lifebane Zombie
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Glaring Spotlight
1 Aetherize
3 Swan Song
Thassa's activated ability is relevant - ups the threat level of the Nightveil, Demon or borrowed threat immensely. Control can't let them both live -
As Thoras mentioned, Nightveil is actually pretty insane. I'm still debating when to take him out... he dies instantly when he hits the board against burn but 3-4 less damage to my dome or Ashiok's is worst case.
Ashiok is a must counter/must kill. Midrange B/W, RBW Mythic or UW control midrange all HAVE to counter or kill it before it activates the second time. Exiling an Ebzedat, BBOV, Prognistic Sphinx on T3 is a serious threat. Not to mention they only run a few, big hitters, enough of those gone and it's game. Her Ultimate really should never come into play unless they are doing some turbo-fog variant.
The Downfalls are intended to be saved for PW if possible - being able to kill a PW before it uses it's ability is huge.
I expect that people will say the Shores and Nykthos are "cute" - but being able to play those spells or activate the abilities turns cute into seriously annoying threat. I'm considering running an extra Steam Vents and Sacred Foundry to be able to add CttR to the list of steal-ables.
The one-of that I expect to get some flack is Glaring Spotlight - but having it in play changes the face of the board. Significantly. I want to run 2, but... yeah.
What is definitely missing is draw - but anything that costs life is unbearable against true agro. Side Erebos in vs control, B/W or Midrange mythic though.
As for Dimir Charm - all three of it's uses are valid. If nothing else, setting up their next draw to what I want them to have is always useful. Not to mention the bonus instant-speed choosing what I'm going to exile with either a Specter or Ashiok.
I tried Time Ebb and Griptide - And while I truly enjoyed bouncing a Purphoros, exiling him and then playing him, they don't measure up at the cc to the more flexible options.
Oddly enough, the single biggest problem card I've had so far is Heliod's Spear. Few enough threats in my deck that I can stall if each only hits them once. Spotlight solves that for a big swing, but otherwise I have to Rift or Ratchet it.
Thoughts?