A turn six Sorin, then turn seven Cruel is what you want to shoot for.
After the Sorin/Cruel, it's 99.9% game with them having only 3 life no matter what
Also, you need a few turn one plays like Lightning Bolt and Thoughtseize.
Then turns 2-5 you want to counter and defend.
That's the way I play this with proxies at least.
You could also go with this as a manabase with is less life costly/less $$$
Don't forget the Pool works with the Bridge even without a counter on it
I see what you mean with the turns, and wanting those guys out. With the Sphinx as another option though, I feel it would be more flexible than depending on Sorin and Cruel to finish the job.
I don't like that cheaper manabase. All that land with counters on it sounds like it would end up dead in the long run.
Replace the 4 Counterspells with 4 Rune Snags. Counterspell is GREAT but you won't have double blue up on turn two as often as you would like.
You shouldn't be running any situational counter like Essence Scatter. Mana Leak is far better.
[CARD]
Countersquall[/CARD] is nice, but I feel like it can be replaced as well.
Brainstorm and Mana leak look like good additions. I agree that it worried me that the UU cost of Counterspell would be prohibitive in the first 2-3 turns. Rune Snag looks good as well, I think that between it and Mana leak it is kind of a wash. Leak would be better early-game, but Rune Snag would, to some degree, scale up as the game went on.
If I were to add in 4x Brainstorm, I would need to adjust the mana base to reflect the increased need for fetchlands. What I had just posted would then not be quite as good...
With 4-ofs of the Ravnica lands, I think the new M10 dual lands would be awesome. They wouldn't come into play tapped since those things count as two different types, so as long as I had a fetch or a Ravnica land, the m10 lands would come out as untapped dual lands. I think that a mix of your land-base and mine would probably be even better. Specifically,
Your decklist intrigues me. The manabase, especially, is a big departure from what I thought was optimal. However, it does seem much more efficient, getting a full 20 ways to pull out each color, whereas my manabase, with two more lands, really only seems to run 15-17 ways to get each color. This makes it much more versatile, but at the cost of my life total. I see that you would have me losing quite a bit of life each turn just due to the lands, and it is what most worries me. How do I deal with that? Will my control be enough to keep my opponent from taking advantage of all the damage I deal to myself?
Also, I see that you added Thoughtseize. I like it, but it does add a full $40 to my deck. I might end up with Duress or something similar in the short term. Taking out Blightning seems a bit odd, though, and I question why you did so. Do you mean for Thoughtseize to replace Blightning? It does that on some level, though it also adds yet more problems with my life total.
Taking out Chandra and adding in two more Sorins seems a bit odd, too. At 6 mana, three of which are black, do I really want that many Sorins? I think cutting that down to two, damnation back down to two, and possibly Cruel Ultimatum down to two, then adding in 3 blightnings could be a good idea.
I have a mono green power-creatures deck that does something very similar to your deck. The key here is that you need a lot of mana acceleration. A lot. I have 4 llanowar elves, 4 Utopia Sprawl, 4 Nature's Lore, and 4 Harrow. I can normally get 6 mana open by turn three, and I've also seen up to 9 mana available on turn three. I've got mostly creatures like Terra Stomper and Plated Slagwurm in my deck, so I think we are running on similar requirements. This is what works for me.
I've decided I'd like to make a pretty top-tier deck, and I settled on this guy's deck. I'd like to adapt it from standard to casual. Things like malakir bloodwitch and flashfreeze won't be very good, so I need to swap some things out. Here's the original decklist:
My budget is within $150. This isn't very strict, because I can trade for a good deal of this stuff.
My first thought is to the land base. I can probably use some of the older fetchlands, and depending on everything else, maybe even some of the old dual lands. Akoum Refuge looks ripe to leave.
The Sphinx looks like a good creature and a good finisher, not sure if anything in the past could match it.
Courier's Capsule should be replaced, but I'm not sure with what, and same goes with Divination, to some degree.
Some of the counter's should probably be replaced with Counterspell, and Flashfreeze should be taken out entirely.
You guys' thoughts?
I've come up with an initial adaptation I'd like your opinions on. It is both posted here, and below:
I removed Earthquake for Damnation, reasoning that for killing creatures with 3 or more toughness, it would probably be the better choice, and it also kills flying creatures. I replaced Negate with Countersquall. I replaced Flashfreeze with Counterspell. I took out Courier's Capsule and added in Blightning. While it doesn't help me draw cards, it does give me an equivalent card advantage. I'm most unsure about the land changes. I took out Terramorphic Expanse and Akoum Refuge and added in two Ravnica Fetchlands and two shock lands, one of each pair of colors.
I'm considering changing out Divination for Jace. Input?
Bump. No replies after almost two days is somewhat disappointing.
Bump. Three days, no replies.
Quadruple-post merged. Also, please do not delete+bump.
-Memnarch
souless one is an average zombie for 4 mana. just a big fat fatty that can be chumped all day.
as for the deck, no lords?
it also seems to be both control and aggro. zombies always work better if you choose one path a stick to it.
Thanks. I'll have to work a way around that.
I have looked through the zombie primer, and I think that my idea is similar to the suicide variant that includes gempalm. Lich Lord may have to go, despite him being the original reason for the deck.
This is a zombie deck I've been working on. The idea is a mix between suicide and swarming them. I want to use cards like Shepherd of Rot, Gempalm Polluter, and Lich Lord of Unx to get rid of their life, and cheap, suicidal zombies as the main pack. Here's my list right now, and it needs refining. Right now it isn't powerful enough, though it seems to also have a few mana problems.
I just want your opinions on this. First, is manaweaving cheating, and second, is it still cheating if you shuffle several times afterwards?
I manaweave my decks (in casual, mind you) occasionally. Normally it is after a long match, where most of my lands would go back to the same spot in the deck. I know that with ENOUGH shuffling, they would spread out, but I end up manaweaving just to speed things up. What do you think?
What might improve this archetype?
I think batterskull has a place here.
I see what you mean with the turns, and wanting those guys out. With the Sphinx as another option though, I feel it would be more flexible than depending on Sorin and Cruel to finish the job.
I don't like that cheaper manabase. All that land with counters on it sounds like it would end up dead in the long run.
Brainstorm and Mana leak look like good additions. I agree that it worried me that the UU cost of Counterspell would be prohibitive in the first 2-3 turns. Rune Snag looks good as well, I think that between it and Mana leak it is kind of a wash. Leak would be better early-game, but Rune Snag would, to some degree, scale up as the game went on.
If I were to add in 4x Brainstorm, I would need to adjust the mana base to reflect the increased need for fetchlands. What I had just posted would then not be quite as good...
4x Steam Vents
4x Watery Grave
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Polluted Delta
4x Crumbling Necropolis
2x Dragonskull Summit
2x Drowned Catacomb
Your decklist intrigues me. The manabase, especially, is a big departure from what I thought was optimal. However, it does seem much more efficient, getting a full 20 ways to pull out each color, whereas my manabase, with two more lands, really only seems to run 15-17 ways to get each color. This makes it much more versatile, but at the cost of my life total. I see that you would have me losing quite a bit of life each turn just due to the lands, and it is what most worries me. How do I deal with that? Will my control be enough to keep my opponent from taking advantage of all the damage I deal to myself?
Also, I see that you added Thoughtseize. I like it, but it does add a full $40 to my deck. I might end up with Duress or something similar in the short term. Taking out Blightning seems a bit odd, though, and I question why you did so. Do you mean for Thoughtseize to replace Blightning? It does that on some level, though it also adds yet more problems with my life total.
Taking out Chandra and adding in two more Sorins seems a bit odd, too. At 6 mana, three of which are black, do I really want that many Sorins? I think cutting that down to two, damnation back down to two, and possibly Cruel Ultimatum down to two, then adding in 3 blightnings could be a good idea.
Double-post merged. See above.
-Memnarch
60 cards
2 Akoum Refuge
4 Crumbling Necropolis
2 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Swamp
2 Terramorphic Expanse
26 lands
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 creatures 1 Chandra Nalaar
4 Courier's Capsule
3 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Divination
3 Earthquake
3 Essence Scatter
3 Flashfreeze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Negate
1 Sorin Markov
4 Terminate
31 other spells
2 Banefire
2 Deathmark
2 Double Negative
2 Duress
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
1 Negate
1 Swerve
3 Vampire Nighthawk
15 sideboard cards
My budget is within $150. This isn't very strict, because I can trade for a good deal of this stuff.
My first thought is to the land base. I can probably use some of the older fetchlands, and depending on everything else, maybe even some of the old dual lands. Akoum Refuge looks ripe to leave.
The Sphinx looks like a good creature and a good finisher, not sure if anything in the past could match it.
Courier's Capsule should be replaced, but I'm not sure with what, and same goes with Divination, to some degree.
Some of the counter's should probably be replaced with Counterspell, and Flashfreeze should be taken out entirely.
You guys' thoughts?
I've come up with an initial adaptation I'd like your opinions on. It is both posted here, and below:
3x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3x Island
2x Mountain
3x Swamp
1x Bloodstained Mire
4x Crumbling Necropolis
2x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Blood Crypt
1x Sorin Markov
4x Counterspell
2x Countersquall
3x Essence Scatter
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
3x Blightning
3x Cruel Ultimatum
2x Damnation
4x Divination
I removed Earthquake for Damnation, reasoning that for killing creatures with 3 or more toughness, it would probably be the better choice, and it also kills flying creatures. I replaced Negate with Countersquall. I replaced Flashfreeze with Counterspell. I took out Courier's Capsule and added in Blightning. While it doesn't help me draw cards, it does give me an equivalent card advantage. I'm most unsure about the land changes. I took out Terramorphic Expanse and Akoum Refuge and added in two Ravnica Fetchlands and two shock lands, one of each pair of colors.
I'm considering changing out Divination for Jace. Input?
Bump. No replies after almost two days is somewhat disappointing.
Bump. Three days, no replies.
Quadruple-post merged. Also, please do not delete+bump.
-Memnarch
Thanks. I'll have to work a way around that.
I have looked through the zombie primer, and I think that my idea is similar to the suicide variant that includes gempalm. Lich Lord may have to go, despite him being the original reason for the deck.
I manaweave my decks (in casual, mind you) occasionally. Normally it is after a long match, where most of my lands would go back to the same spot in the deck. I know that with ENOUGH shuffling, they would spread out, but I end up manaweaving just to speed things up. What do you think?
Second-If you are a Johnny, you can just take out some of the better spells for less efficient, more "fun" spells.