Good job on the 4-0. Do you have an updated list? I have been trying this deck out, and I just can't seem to actually beat anything. Any general advice for playing the deck?
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
*Sigh* The Devourer combo still works so long as you aren't a moron. Counter's don't get put onto the Ooze until the ability resolves, so you exile the top card and see if it costs less than three. If it does, you let the ability resolve then ping them twice and continue. If it costs more than three you just use the exile the top card ability again and repeat until they are dead. It has worked like that for some time (it is a combo kill used by some decks in Legacy still).
-Lennon
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
That would be pretty cool. I don't know how good an EDH deck it would be, but it would still be cool. Plus, it would be really hard for your friends to begrudge you playing with a Black lotus when it is a giant card.
Bonus points to all of this if you can make it so your commander is one of the oversized ones from the upcomming EDH precons.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
@SC: Minor nitpick. Legacy combo decks are arguably just as broken as vintage ones, as they have access to 4 Black Lotus and 7-8 Demonic Tutors plus 4 Brainstorms.
As far as the vintage components of "old" 1v1 EDH vs. the legacy components we are trying to get to work here, I think the 2 could co-exist at 20 life. Hermit druid likely needs to get banned, granted, but past that, with 20 life, an aggro deck's goldfish would be fairly close to the goldfish of something like D3. Add in a hate-card or 5, and the aggro-combo matchup doesn't look all that bad. Granted, combo has trumps in the form of Balance and Oath of Druids, but still, without sufficient time to get to those, or if disrupted slightly by the aggro decks, those still might not be enough to stop from getting burned out. Now, would the matchup favor aggro? Probably not, but it wouldn't be the laugher that is was at 30 life. And, of course, anywhere that decks like RDW/Zoo/Rebels/Whatever aggro deck you want exist, there will be contol decks like Landstill, and so the metagamge cycle is compleete.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
I don't think you can do format specific errata, either, though. If the goal is to have Legacy EDH be EDH deckbuilding with the legacy banned list, I think it needs to stop there. If there is going to be errata for the format, you might as well just make your own banned list.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
@Khymera: There might still be combo decks (lord knows I'm looking), but if they exist, it will be something along the lines of old Vintage Slaver, something that is actually a control deck with some combo kill. Combo (hermit druid aside), never had a consistent turn 4 kill simply because of the disjoint parts of the deck. Now, sure, it had "the nuts" turn 3-4 kill, but it wasn't consistent. However, I think aggro now does have a shot at a consistent turn 4 kill (at least turn 4 goldifish seems very likely), and it is consistent simply by nature, not because of broken cards (fun fact, Horde got 17 cards banned out of it by the jump to the legacy list... darn.)
We have gotten combo out of the format, but I don't think this format will be any better, just different.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
I thought I senced a disturbance in the force last night.... *sigh*.
Not sure how I feel about this one. I understand the appeal of a single list that is maintained and recognized, but I also think that it shouldn't come at the expense of an entire pillar of the metagame. I think the MTGSal list is relitvly close to right, plus or minus about 5 cards, but I suppose we'll find out if this is any better once the tournament starts running.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
I lose. Again, to a deck that is going to be banned out of existence. Also, in what looks to be the last tournament where Horde is actually viable. It's been a hell of a ride.
Nargl gets it 2-1.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
@Hunter: Interesting results. I'm interesting in the D3 outcomes (obivously). I think something a little more resilient like 3-5 color zoo might prove to be better than Adamaro, and obviously 20 life makes the sygg matchup a lot worse.
Out of curiosity, how good was Bargain vs. how dead was it at other times, and were you playing with Channel and Necro legal?
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
Game 2: I set up oath but get SadSaced. I make a really conservative play at the end and it ends up (maybe) costing me the game, though I was way behind at that point, anyways.
Game 3: Cripple fight! He mulls to 5, and I to 6. I get my DT Thoughtseized out and then draw lands for 4 turns. Eventually hoard gets him down to 4, and a topdecked recoup into tendrils for 8 finishes it off.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
Game 1, I Time Spiral into 6 mana sources and Regrowth... doh! Prime Time gets me.
Game 2, a Desire for 5 gives me Future Sight while I already have top on the board, the following turn coughs up Enlightened tutor for Helm.
Game 3, Turn 1 Mana Vault into turn 2 Jace TMS. Moondust looks to be mana screwed, and can never remove jace. Eventually I hardcast Tidespout Tyrant and start bouncing 2-3 permanents a turn.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
-Lennon
Bonus points to all of this if you can make it so your commander is one of the oversized ones from the upcomming EDH precons.
As far as the vintage components of "old" 1v1 EDH vs. the legacy components we are trying to get to work here, I think the 2 could co-exist at 20 life. Hermit druid likely needs to get banned, granted, but past that, with 20 life, an aggro deck's goldfish would be fairly close to the goldfish of something like D3. Add in a hate-card or 5, and the aggro-combo matchup doesn't look all that bad. Granted, combo has trumps in the form of Balance and Oath of Druids, but still, without sufficient time to get to those, or if disrupted slightly by the aggro decks, those still might not be enough to stop from getting burned out. Now, would the matchup favor aggro? Probably not, but it wouldn't be the laugher that is was at 30 life. And, of course, anywhere that decks like RDW/Zoo/Rebels/Whatever aggro deck you want exist, there will be contol decks like Landstill, and so the metagamge cycle is compleete.
We have gotten combo out of the format, but I don't think this format will be any better, just different.
Not sure how I feel about this one. I understand the appeal of a single list that is maintained and recognized, but I also think that it shouldn't come at the expense of an entire pillar of the metagame. I think the MTGSal list is relitvly close to right, plus or minus about 5 cards, but I suppose we'll find out if this is any better once the tournament starts running.
Nargl gets it 2-1.
Out of curiosity, how good was Bargain vs. how dead was it at other times, and were you playing with Channel and Necro legal?
Game 1: Turn 2 Oath w/ Orchard carries me.
Game 2: I set up oath but get SadSaced. I make a really conservative play at the end and it ends up (maybe) costing me the game, though I was way behind at that point, anyways.
Game 3: Cripple fight! He mulls to 5, and I to 6. I get my DT Thoughtseized out and then draw lands for 4 turns. Eventually hoard gets him down to 4, and a topdecked recoup into tendrils for 8 finishes it off.
Game 1, I Time Spiral into 6 mana sources and Regrowth... doh! Prime Time gets me.
Game 2, a Desire for 5 gives me Future Sight while I already have top on the board, the following turn coughs up Enlightened tutor for Helm.
Game 3, Turn 1 Mana Vault into turn 2 Jace TMS. Moondust looks to be mana screwed, and can never remove jace. Eventually I hardcast Tidespout Tyrant and start bouncing 2-3 permanents a turn.