Some of these prices are way off, I'm having to cross check everything at tcgplayer. geralf's messenger is not nearly $15, Sorin is not nearly $60, and foil prices of everything is way off. I did get a Havengul lich for 6.50 after shipping within 3 minutes of using this so it's a good tool, but the pricing system seems to have some issues that need to be worked out. I think I've seen a site before that does an average ebay selling price, I just don't remember where at or I'd link it to you. I remember someone used to use it for trades a while back and I didn't like it at first because cards were generally priced at a little less than at the sites I used to price my cards.
Why is hive mind a bad match up? It seems like Thalia does a good bit against them. I'm not too worried with my current build because I can side in gaddock against them. I've never played the match up though so I don't really know why it's a problem.
I've been finding myself wishing for some form of card draw. This would mean splashing in to blue, black or green. Muldrifter comes to mind, as does dark confidant. Anyone else tried anything for a little card advantage? I find myself running out of steam. Vials would make splashin a creature for draw fairly easy.
You could just buy 4 Horizon canopy, regardless of whether or not you splash green.
2. No. It doesnt stop spells from being cast. You also will not have priority to do so. During his upkeep of the turn you think he is going to cast rites on his guy is probably your best bet or after they cast gifts if you think they have tricks. If it gets to his main phase you can't do so because he'll have priority first since its his turn.
You can't stop a spell from being cast, but you do get a chance to respond. If they cast unburial rites you pay 1 to exile the graveyards, causing unburial rites to fizzle because of no valid targets. Likewise, if (Iona) is the only card in their graveyard (unlikely), you can tap the relic to force them to remove it, also causing rites to fizzle.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions people have about the card is that it is targeted removal. The opponent gets to choose which card to remove, so you can't just remove the persist guy by tapping it all of the time, the card is often a bit of a one shot if you don't open with it, but the draw helps get to more hate.
I'm still playing a mono white version very similar to the one posted in the primer. I like Mangara, but he's kind of slow and you really want Flickerwisp or Stonecloaker first to do tricks with him.
I'm expecting to see a lot of creatures playing online, so would Fiend Hunter be a better MD option? I can still do all the fun tricks that I can if I have Flicker or Stonecloaker, but I also definitely end up with a body no matter what happens. I guess the only drawback is that a bolt gives them their guy back.
I'm also expecting a lot of elves and red decks (cheap and still comptetive). I run 3 MD Kitchen Finks. I'm hoping 4 Kor Firewalker and 2 Timely Reinforcements is more than enough for any aggressive red strategy, but what about elves? I haven't tested enough to know if I need to even bring anything in against elves.
Thanks for the help.
You are committing a lot of your side board to r/x aggro, you already have 3 kitchen finks md. If you are in mono white and only run 4 non-white spells (vial) then perhaps side 4 martyr of the sands and use the other 2 slots for other match ups, she is so much life gain that they usually can't kill you, especially alongside kitchen finks.
I was thinking of adding a Sejiri steppe to my mana base in my g/w list so that I can counter removal with knight of the reliquary's ability. This is my current mana base. What does everyone think of this, otherwise I can add that white kamigawa land, or both.
pick an assortment of creatures:
goblin guide
figure of destiny
spark elemental
hellspark lemental
hells thunder
ball lightning
keldon maurauders
kiln fiend
chandra's pheonix
boggart ram gang
bloodbraid elf
porcelain legionnaire
pick some burn:
lightning bolt
burst lightning
incinerate
staggershock
rift bolt
lava spike
searing blaze
magma jet
flame javelin
flames of the blood hand
shrine of burning rage
He could probably also do burn for $30, but figure of destiny and/or chandra's phoenix are going to be too expensive alongside goblin guide. There are definitely options in RDW variants for this budget though.
Hey guys,
I dont know what is and isnt officially D+T. it plays similar to the original list post in part 1 and the original list is what informed this build.
I have Thalia in SB. Ideally I would main deck her but i dont know what to drop.
I play W+P because that is the sword I own 2 of. Its that or Feast and Famine. Realistically any sword would work, I just stick it on Scryb or cloaker for end game beats.
I play goyf over serra because I can play him on turn 2 and he can eat goblins etc. Also goyf can win the gamefaster. KOTR is awesome, he searches up temple gardens or if you have a flagstones in play you search for a flagstones then net an extra land.
I usually win with stone cloaker. Opponents spend all their removal on goyfs and knights and then its finks and cloakers for the win.
Cheers
KOTR can also search Horizon Canopy if you get around to getting some, they would probably be the best land to replace your terramorphic expanses with. I don't see how he can net you an extra land. You can't sac the flagstone to search, so all you could really do is search a flagstone on top of the one you have, and then search out two plains/ temple gardens, which will be the same land total.
If your group has any red mages goblins can be built for about $30.They may be too strong for other budget decks in that kind of range because they are very fast. I know when my locals was just picking up modern I built them and made more back in tournament winnings than I spent on the deck. Anyways, here is a list.
I had the pricy fetchlands in mine to help out with searing blaze landfalls, another option would be to replace it with ember hauler. And instead of wardriver I ran Warren Instigator, I felt it was stronger, but I think it's debatable which is better, 4 instigators will cost about $12.
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Flickerwisp
4 AEther Vial
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Scryb Ranger
4 Stonecloaker
8 Plains
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Path to Exile
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Temple Garden
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Forest
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 3 Suppression Field
SB: 3 Kor Firewalker
SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 4 Grand Abolisher
Here is the list I have been testing. A key card you all haven't been playing is Scryb Ranger. SHHH its my super secret tech. It combos with mangara because you can use the untap ability to Mangara twice. In fact you can mangara, Scryb, mangara, stone cloaker.
Scryb also has pro blue for snap caster and cliques and flash so you can play him in response or at eot.
I play goyf because he is a beating and he eats path to exiles.
I play mindcensor over arbiter. flash, flying. flash is better v control and he can block caws if needed.
the deck plays fine at 3 mana once you get to 5/6 mana or 3 and vial its very strong.
I would like to play Jhotun grunts but i can't find the room for it. I recently added the swords. I know Light and shadow would be better but i dont have any.
BTW I played control in a 40 person tuesday night magic last night. Turn 2 Thalia was the only card that beat me. went 4-0-1 in swiss and split top 4. Def a fan thalia now.
not sure if okina or gavony is better. I will be testing both. with the knights i can play one of and search.
Comments are welcome.
Scryb ranger is pretty good tech, how is it testing? Sword of fire and ice would also be a better sword but it is pricier than light and shadow. You could probably cut the oblivion rings for thalia since she makes them pretty expensive to cast. Also I have loved having Horizon Canopy in my g/w version, it's good card draw and makes knight of the reliquary bigger. Something to think about is that serra avenger is a fantastic sword carrier, but the only non utility creature is goyf and it is nice to have a beater outside of the bolt/helix range.
@thblkdog: Im not reading that deck as D+T. Its more like a... idk even know.
Your deck looks like you aim to red zone your opponent with a big Knight or Goyf...
His deck is pretty mangara focused and has aven mindcensors so I would still consider it D&T. He sounds like he would like to fit Thalia in now and that would make it even more so. It doesn't hurt to break the mold of the deck some and branch out to try new things. I really like the idea of scryb ranger in a sword mold, protection from U/x/x in a flying carrier is nice when they augment our mangara tricks. The deck could use a bit of work but it's interesting.
I definitely agree with what's being said here. I played an Esper Control deck recently and found it to be more difficult in practice than it is on paper. Also, Caw Blade is certainly becoming a thing and will get stronger IMO. Anti-search is only semi useful here.
I'm moving in odd directions with D&T lately, testing online without the Mangara/Wisp package and I like a list chalk full of hate bears MB. I'm waiting for DKA to settle down into the meta and determine where to go and test from there.
I've actually had a few thoughts of new things to try, because of what I consider a mislabeled deck no less. The first person to post the top 8 of the mtgo ptq from 2 days ago listed a top 8 deck as Hate caw, although the pilot called it g/w shaman for fauna shaman and the decklist isn't nearly what I was hoping to see. It made me think though that adding the caw or sword package may be beneficial. With Sword of Light and Shadow we can get back the hatebears that everyone is so quick to remove out of necessity, it is good card advantage, and the hawks can create a clock themselves with a sword equipped. Even without the hawks, our flyers are great sword wielders. Thoughts?
caw is a thing? in what deck? and even so, they actually have to search for them... pod is a thing too, but that is a great matchup.
I tend not to assume my deck will be kind to me. I actually lost a match to esper teachings yesterday, with as many hosers and semi hosers as 6 anti search (4 arbiter, 2 mindcensor), 3 lockdown (teeg), 3 Thalia, 4 counter bypass (aether vial), tax lands... On paper I should have hosed him, but I had a run of bad luck. They run a lot of removal for the record, but I didn't even see teeg (biggest hoser and protector) once in 3 drawn out games, not even to be ran into a counter or anything, and only saw aether vial in the game that I won... it was casual so it didn't help that I couldn't side out more useless stuff like path to exile, or I could have but I won game 1 and he didn't have his side deck with him so I didn't.
Caw blade is making a showing now, and if you look at compiled ptq results on the metagame thread it is a recently discovered deck, it put up relatively low numbers overall, but numbers close to or greater than jund last week if I remember correctly, and Can land the hawk before we see turn 2. If we are expecting turn 2 arbiter they can expect turn 2 hawk, and once the first bird has searched, it's done its damage. Pod can't search on its second turn.
You could just buy 4 Horizon canopy, regardless of whether or not you splash green.
You can't stop a spell from being cast, but you do get a chance to respond. If they cast unburial rites you pay 1 to exile the graveyards, causing unburial rites to fizzle because of no valid targets. Likewise, if (Iona) is the only card in their graveyard (unlikely), you can tap the relic to force them to remove it, also causing rites to fizzle.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions people have about the card is that it is targeted removal. The opponent gets to choose which card to remove, so you can't just remove the persist guy by tapping it all of the time, the card is often a bit of a one shot if you don't open with it, but the draw helps get to more hate.
This is just soul sisters packing ethersworn canonist. No taxing at all
You are committing a lot of your side board to r/x aggro, you already have 3 kitchen finks md. If you are in mono white and only run 4 non-white spells (vial) then perhaps side 4 martyr of the sands and use the other 2 slots for other match ups, she is so much life gain that they usually can't kill you, especially alongside kitchen finks.
3 Temple Garden
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Gavony Township
7 Plains
He could probably also do burn for $30, but figure of destiny and/or chandra's phoenix are going to be too expensive alongside goblin guide. There are definitely options in RDW variants for this budget though.
KOTR can also search Horizon Canopy if you get around to getting some, they would probably be the best land to replace your terramorphic expanses with. I don't see how he can net you an extra land. You can't sac the flagstone to search, so all you could really do is search a flagstone on top of the one you have, and then search out two plains/ temple gardens, which will be the same land total.
4 Goblin Guide ($16)
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Mogg War-Marshall
4 Goblin Chieftain
2 Goblin King ($4)
4 Lightning bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Searing Blaze
Lands: 22
18 Mountains
4 Teetering Peaks
I had the pricy fetchlands in mine to help out with searing blaze landfalls, another option would be to replace it with ember hauler. And instead of wardriver I ran Warren Instigator, I felt it was stronger, but I think it's debatable which is better, 4 instigators will cost about $12.
Scryb ranger is pretty good tech, how is it testing? Sword of fire and ice would also be a better sword but it is pricier than light and shadow. You could probably cut the oblivion rings for thalia since she makes them pretty expensive to cast. Also I have loved having Horizon Canopy in my g/w version, it's good card draw and makes knight of the reliquary bigger. Something to think about is that serra avenger is a fantastic sword carrier, but the only non utility creature is goyf and it is nice to have a beater outside of the bolt/helix range.
His deck is pretty mangara focused and has aven mindcensors so I would still consider it D&T. He sounds like he would like to fit Thalia in now and that would make it even more so. It doesn't hurt to break the mold of the deck some and branch out to try new things. I really like the idea of scryb ranger in a sword mold, protection from U/x/x in a flying carrier is nice when they augment our mangara tricks. The deck could use a bit of work but it's interesting.
I've actually had a few thoughts of new things to try, because of what I consider a mislabeled deck no less. The first person to post the top 8 of the mtgo ptq from 2 days ago listed a top 8 deck as Hate caw, although the pilot called it g/w shaman for fauna shaman and the decklist isn't nearly what I was hoping to see. It made me think though that adding the caw or sword package may be beneficial. With Sword of Light and Shadow we can get back the hatebears that everyone is so quick to remove out of necessity, it is good card advantage, and the hawks can create a clock themselves with a sword equipped. Even without the hawks, our flyers are great sword wielders. Thoughts?
I tend not to assume my deck will be kind to me. I actually lost a match to esper teachings yesterday, with as many hosers and semi hosers as 6 anti search (4 arbiter, 2 mindcensor), 3 lockdown (teeg), 3 Thalia, 4 counter bypass (aether vial), tax lands... On paper I should have hosed him, but I had a run of bad luck. They run a lot of removal for the record, but I didn't even see teeg (biggest hoser and protector) once in 3 drawn out games, not even to be ran into a counter or anything, and only saw aether vial in the game that I won... it was casual so it didn't help that I couldn't side out more useless stuff like path to exile, or I could have but I won game 1 and he didn't have his side deck with him so I didn't.
Caw blade is making a showing now, and if you look at compiled ptq results on the metagame thread it is a recently discovered deck, it put up relatively low numbers overall, but numbers close to or greater than jund last week if I remember correctly, and Can land the hawk before we see turn 2. If we are expecting turn 2 arbiter they can expect turn 2 hawk, and once the first bird has searched, it's done its damage. Pod can't search on its second turn.