Fixing draws is great. Filling your graveyard can be great. Doing either at the expense of card disadvantage is not. I have no interest in playing this card and I'd have to be convinced by an insane showing to do so in the future.
In a long game scry 2 every turn will overcome the card disadvantage pretty effectively, and this is a bit better than that. Not sure I'd maindeck it in draft, at least without seeing the format a bit more, but in a delve deck in sealed I think I'd be happy enough.
I'd much rather have better chances of avoiding getting to the long game by not throwing away a card early on. Assuming you can even cast it - lest we not forget that it's a 3-color enchantment that you have to pass a turn (or a decent chunk of a turn) using. It's going to be stranded in your hand regularly. I'd bring it in out of the side in the right deck if I knew with absolute certainty it'd be a grindy game, but it's absolutely incorrect to maindeck it right now. Maybe if the vast majority of games end up being grindy once we've seen more of the format, that evaluation will change. I'd still never be happy to run it, though.
Fixing draws is great. Filling your graveyard can be great. Doing either at the expense of card disadvantage is not. I have no interest in playing this card and I'd have to be convinced by an insane showing to do so in the future.
PS: Comparing it to Sigiled Starfish is ludicrous.
Even if not, it's not like trading a 3 drop for a 2 drop is the worst thing in MTG history. It's a problem when you're talking about like a 5 drop with 1-2 toughness that just trades with every 1/2 drop - but that's not what's happening here. Sometimes you'll trade slightly down to a 2 drop (perhaps even a 1 drop), sometimes you'll trade all the way up to a 6 drop with it, and sometimes you'll just beat face with 4 power for 3 mana.
It doesn't have an actual impact, so anyone who has an issue with it is probably just unaware of what it actually means and therefore shouldn't be taking a side. Hence my attitude towards the argument.
That's such a completely negligible concern. Again, no one is suggesting that you get to buy the pack replacement for any rare or mythic. It's only crazy scenarios like this double Goyf pack. It's the kind of situation where no one (unless they are made of money) would opt not to do it just to keep a good draft card. As you said, many good constructed cards aren't even good limited cards. I see no reason it would greatly impact the card quality of the draft and certainly isn't going to do much to help the guy drafting or hurt others. If anything, the fewer busted mythics in my draft games, the better.
Except it's not. It's not dependent on any of the commons, uncommons or even rares. You wouldn't be able to swap a pack just because it didn't have a good card for you. In fact, on average, you're probably going to end up hurting your deck more than anyone else's, given that the money packs generally have at least one very good card. Many of the times where it isn't going to hurt your deck quality, it's because it's a money card that isn't really meant for limited, which means it's basically random anyway. Random pack contents are random pack contents.
Obviously a 3/3 would be better, but I don't think it's that bad that he "just" trades with morph. They're both 3-drops. You expect your 3-drops to trade with other 3 drops and the morph probably had much higher eventual upside than your non-morph 3-drop. He punishes you more than a Courser would if they stumble at all or with the large amount of pump in the format. He's still worse, but he's a perfectly fine 3 drop. People regularly play bears with slight upside at 3 mana in limited - +2 power is better than many of the playable upsides we see. If you have some Ferocious, I'd take it over a Courser in most any deck unless my opponent was loaded with morphs, bears and 2/3s.
I don't get the objection to replacement packs. You're not just giving people the option to do it for every single pack that they feel like keeping - it's only for the very, very rare packs with like double Mythics or other crazy things. I mean, it's rare enough and most of the time you open a stupidly expensive card, it's also a bomb worth splashing for or gambling on, so the person is going to want to play that pack anyway. It certainly doesn't impact what's going on in the draft at all. It affects the draft in the same way as swapping packs with your neighbor before you open them because you like the design better. It's not "having it both ways", it's making sure people don't have to pass on really awesome cards they open fair and square while also making sure the draft stays at 8 people.
Then again, unplayable foils and Mythics does exactly this, too.
If a judge is accusing you of stalling and he isn't an idiot, you're clearly playing too slowly. The complexity of the deck isn't relevant. We're all expected to play at a reasonable speed. You're acting like the victim - the real victim is the opponent who ends up with a draw when he should have a win, just because you're unwilling or incapable of playing at an acceptable speed. If you need to prep by reading cards before you go to play more quickly, do it or deal with the repercussions.
We like the fact that Butcher of the Horde can't eat itself to give itself lifelink, because that's inane.
If you want to think of it in terms of flavor, then obviously the creature sacrifices itself for the cause. A heroic sacrifice. (Or because the planeswalker controlling it is sadistic.)
Which makes perfect sense for a Demon that eats its allies to gain slight advantages...
To be fair, an 0/5 2 drop with reach that can ping your life total is pretty damn good at common. Stalling the board and giving a deck reach on a stalled board is already plenty - no need to stop evasive threats, too. Gameplay does and should trump flavor 100% of the time.
Anyway, I hope everyone noticed the correction in response to the original post. You can absolutely respond to a multicolored spell being cast with Lobber Crew as its untap is a trigger. The multicolored spell goes on the stack, then Lobber Crew's untap goes on the stack, then you respond by pinging and it'll untap.
Way to miss literally the entire point of my post. No one said hatedrafting could never win you a game. It's just an awful strategy that has a completely negligible impact on your odds of winning a round of an event. Far, far better players than either of us have said this time and time again.
You have two 2/1s and they have a 1/4 wall - you can't attack. You have two 2/2s and they have a 1/4 wall - you can attack safely for 2 a turn. They Incinerate your 2/1 during combat - you can't save it with a +2/+2 trick. They Incinerate your 2/2 during combat - you can save it with a +2/+2 trick. They have a 1 power attacker - you can't reasonably block except maybe to trade with a 2/1. They have a 1 power attacker - you can block safely with a 2/2. They have a pinger, your 2/1 is utterly unplayable. They have a pinger, your 2/2 is a perfectly valid beater.
That may be the odds that you play against the card (using highly questionable math - not all formats have the same average game length, some big bombs aren't playable even when they're drawn, it's not a guaranteed main-deck card even if no one hatedrafts it), but that's not the odds that it makes a difference. Even the biggest bombs have no impact on the outcome of a game a huge percentage of the time. Unless your deck is horrendous minus it, you're winning half the games you draw it anyway (or, given that it's hatedrafting, they're winning half their games with or without it). Even the biggest bombs aren't completely unbeatable. Even the biggest bombs can't turn around a sure-fire loss.
You hatedraft all you want. You're going to end up with lower odds of winning because of it, though. Read the thread. It's blatantly and undeniably true.
A 2/2 over a 2/1 is going to win you more games than you'll lose to the card you would have hatedrafted. That's just undeniably and blatantly true. You and the other few people who don't get this seem to think you'll end up playing the guy who gets the card, that the guy who gets the card will actually play it, that he'll actually draw it in a game and that the card will impact the outcome. The odds of that are stupidly low.
He summed it up pretty well. There haven't been many posts here because there's not much to discuss. You hatedraft when there aren't any cards that might make your maindeck and no useful sideboard cards exclusively. Any other hate-draft is incorrect and always will be, no matter how powerful the card in question is.
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I'd much rather have better chances of avoiding getting to the long game by not throwing away a card early on. Assuming you can even cast it - lest we not forget that it's a 3-color enchantment that you have to pass a turn (or a decent chunk of a turn) using. It's going to be stranded in your hand regularly. I'd bring it in out of the side in the right deck if I knew with absolute certainty it'd be a grindy game, but it's absolutely incorrect to maindeck it right now. Maybe if the vast majority of games end up being grindy once we've seen more of the format, that evaluation will change. I'd still never be happy to run it, though.
PS: Comparing it to Sigiled Starfish is ludicrous.
Then again, unplayable foils and Mythics does exactly this, too.
Which makes perfect sense for a Demon that eats its allies to gain slight advantages...
Anyway, I hope everyone noticed the correction in response to the original post. You can absolutely respond to a multicolored spell being cast with Lobber Crew as its untap is a trigger. The multicolored spell goes on the stack, then Lobber Crew's untap goes on the stack, then you respond by pinging and it'll untap.
That may be the odds that you play against the card (using highly questionable math - not all formats have the same average game length, some big bombs aren't playable even when they're drawn, it's not a guaranteed main-deck card even if no one hatedrafts it), but that's not the odds that it makes a difference. Even the biggest bombs have no impact on the outcome of a game a huge percentage of the time. Unless your deck is horrendous minus it, you're winning half the games you draw it anyway (or, given that it's hatedrafting, they're winning half their games with or without it). Even the biggest bombs aren't completely unbeatable. Even the biggest bombs can't turn around a sure-fire loss.
You hatedraft all you want. You're going to end up with lower odds of winning because of it, though. Read the thread. It's blatantly and undeniably true.