rather than quick think more about consistent. angels are slow and big, you should try to control the board until you land a few and let them win the game for you- backed up by some more control. 4 path to exile will not stop the opponent from rolling over you in the first 4 turns. Also, without aether vial serra avenger is bad.
Well, let's hold on a moment. Would I be right in assuming that you want to keep the deck boros colored? While a mono black build might be able to wreck him, burn should still have a chance due to threat density.
Counter his counters with red elemental blast, pyroblast, and the like. Heck, you can just add a number of red counterspells to your deck and counter his giests outright, or keep them in hand until you need to resolve the big bad board wipe
just find a way to add 4 REB and 4 Pyroblast and see how much that helps before tossing money into other possibilities
So, to recap, things that can fit in your deck without problems or major revisions:
now, maybe you'll want 3 boseiju, it is up to you, but your wrath effects now cannot be countered and you should have the force you need to protect your fatty (big red) with your own counters. Other than that play like a traditional control deck. keep the field clear until your uncounterable pro white akroma comes down and makes him sad.
Also as counters seem to be troubling you, a few bosieju who shelters all might find a place in your deck.
what colors are you running, what is your current list and what is your budget?
edit: wow, i almost forgot! Why let them even hit the field in the first place? Hymn to Tourach, Despise, Cabal Therapy (which is great because you don't name diddly until it has resolved)
he uses his counters on your disruption? Pity, then he gets hit with the mutilate/black sun's zenith/whatever
as a color, black can be good at making control players miserable
said inn +2012, doing inn only makes it considerably more difficult on account of removing between most and all utility
That said, as you were about to buy 8 cavern of souls (really not necessary vs control by the way, as not all control is countermagic) I am assuming that the budget is effectively infinite
swap doom blade with tribute to hunger
rune scarred will become 3 reaper from the abyss, +1 harvester of souls
deathmark becomes tragic slip
distress becomes black cat x2
consume spirit becomes liliana of the veilx4
does cavern of souls serve any purpose other than tacking 100 dollars on to the deck when neither deck is packing counters?
With the block constraints, you don't have alot in the options department. What is your budget? if it's unlimited, I am going to suggest the good liliana and have her do the work for the demons
I am going to assume a limited budget because in the absence of information i always do.
So lets start with demons. I like removal, so let's stick alot of that in. In fact, I think we can even try to do something slightly controlish with these colors.
Heck, lets grab heartless summoning, because who wants to pay 5-8 for your dudes?
so, let's rehash: Kill everything, then mop up with big guys who are also tutors who draw lots of cards... and do it fairly early. Sounds good to me. This is a quick and dirty list, so take it for what it's worth.
angels have a similar theme, and they can rock the board alot better in the control suite. But instead of the boring "lol, DoJ" why not use white's ability to have fun with enchantments? So long as you have a creature, you can have a massive one with angelic destiny. And have it come back when it dies. Then stick it on the auramancer. Then... well, you get the point. Also why not draw some cards while you are at it.
I second Hymn to Tourach, but not in the same deck as the other stuff. Double black does not play well with others. If you have any sort of duals, you can safely run 2 colors, so long as it still favors one over the other (on a low budget, anyway)
Extirpate is fun, you hit one of the more annoying control spells, then make sure it never happens again. No counter, no salvation, no appeal.
Control decks have a problem with hand disruption quite often, If they burn control spells on the discard, they don't have any for the threats. If they save control for the threats, your hand disruption will often ruin them.
Might want to look at some of the old school suicide black. soften them up with hymns and specters, then drive the point home with nantuko shade and other small painful creatures
Edit: If your playgroup won't crucify you for it, Mind Twist should be on the list. If they are skeptical, run a single copy so it is legal in at least one format
Ok, current version. Lacks turn one plays but can board a ton of sweeps for aggro and become a serious tempo challenge to fight combo
Mystical tutor and gush only come out if strictly necessary, those have saved my bacon more times than I can count. If people complain i'll go down to one each so it's played as restricted instead of banned. That would open 3 slots, so probably ass in the disks for real sweeper power and another land, because i dislike having so few but do not know what to remove anymore
1) I realize that casual has no "banned and restricted list", but given that mystical tutor is banned in legacy and restricted in vintage, most people will look askance at 3 copies.
2) why have snap in board? He's good in almost every situation, i'm curious as to what matchup needs him so much.
3) why bother with mana leak when runesnag.exists = true? Yeah the first is slightly worse, it is better the rest of the game. If you were running 3 or less the choice would make sense, but when you're running the playset rune snag is better.
4) you seem to have a really high count of ca/cq cards. It might work, but I would think you would be better off with more busines cards.
Mostly because I don't own any rune snags. Is rewind good enough to make the cut?
Snapcaster is in the board because i honestly forgot i had him until i was filling in slots for the board.
which CA/CQ do you think I should cut? Without fetches brainstorm often only lets me know just how screwed I am for the next 3 turns, instead I suppose more business should go in.
I have a bunch of dazes, the spell pierces obviously, snapcaster, what would you increase and decrease?
2 mysticals come out when people complain, what would take the slot? Might go down to a single copy since i am switching metas soon and the new one might not be so open
I also managed to get my hands on a chalice of the void, think there is a place for it? I have a couple control magics lying around, and can likely remove some stuff from my edh (blue sun's zenith, dominating licid, a second nevinyral's disk, another steel hellkite) as I don't use it much if you think there is a place for it.
Master Transmuter is akin to to elvish piper, but artifacts only, this includes bouncing itself to dodge removal. Still, there are more budget artifact tutors than creature tutors. Besides, Blightsteel colossus likes to meet new friends.
more fun stuff: not a cheat, but fauna shaman, and its big brother survival of the fittest are good ways to get those big guys into hand, then you can entertain yourself
So, I reworked the deck a little and was hoping for some feedback. I had some fun extra parts sitting around and one thing led to another...
So I took the expensive tempo creatures out of a legacy deck that could not use them properly, and thought maybe they can fit in here... the issue is where?
the deck's currently is a bit unfocused, that is true, i just don't know if i should go tempo or traditional control
as it stands there is not enough countermagic and i don't know what to add in because budget and all. The board can laugh at aggro all day long, bringing in 6 wipes and mystical tutor for the miracle goodness.
I am considering getting my hands on an academy ruins or two and dropping the sphinxes for more hellkites, because i like blowing things up
Mana base looks iffy on paper, with the amount of draw it has never been an issue in practice. that said, i can probably drop a brainstorm or two
4 wincons became 3 when my EDH deck needed some creatures
Thanks. Are you talking about the first or second build? Or both? lol.
I have the Academy Rector to tutor for the Nightmare (and to grab Deeds or Bargain). Though I could probably find space for another 1-2 RN's as well as Demonic Tutor. What changes would you make to add in two more RN's?
Basking Rootwalla and Memnite are there to fuel Vengevine (and can act as free sac fuel as needed); he's the primary aggro win-con (I mean, he was the final straw that caused SotF to be banned in Legacy). It's also set up to SB into a more control focused build (more like the builds of old) which would give me 7 slots for more creatures/spells. I have considered Bloodghast as well though; I like the fact that he can come back again and again.
Squee is simply there to make sure I can always fuel Survival.
The rest of the creatures either effect the board state directly, or have EtB/Die activated trigger. Except the Sphinx - she just beats face if I switch to the more control focused build.
Ok, i missed the rectors, I selectively forgot they existed when they hit 40 bucks a few months back. Looks solid, not sure i can add much. But i like it, survival/nightmare was one of thos things i never got around to because of the costs involved.
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enlightened tutor/worldly tutor perhaps?
rather than quick think more about consistent. angels are slow and big, you should try to control the board until you land a few and let them win the game for you- backed up by some more control. 4 path to exile will not stop the opponent from rolling over you in the first 4 turns. Also, without aether vial serra avenger is bad.
if there is no need for green mana why not use a plains- the sanctuary eats a turn
edit: noticed the single sigarda in the SB, definitely not worth a lost turn and consistency issues
2: 4 sol rings will piss off just about everyone unless your group has agreements
Counter his counters with red elemental blast, pyroblast, and the like. Heck, you can just add a number of red counterspells to your deck and counter his giests outright, or keep them in hand until you need to resolve the big bad board wipe
just find a way to add 4 REB and 4 Pyroblast and see how much that helps before tossing money into other possibilities
So, to recap, things that can fit in your deck without problems or major revisions:
4 Pyroblast
2 Boseiju, who shelters all
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
now, maybe you'll want 3 boseiju, it is up to you, but your wrath effects now cannot be countered and you should have the force you need to protect your fatty (big red) with your own counters. Other than that play like a traditional control deck. keep the field clear until your uncounterable pro white akroma comes down and makes him sad.
what colors are you running, what is your current list and what is your budget?
edit: wow, i almost forgot! Why let them even hit the field in the first place? Hymn to Tourach, Despise, Cabal Therapy (which is great because you don't name diddly until it has resolved)
he uses his counters on your disruption? Pity, then he gets hit with the mutilate/black sun's zenith/whatever
as a color, black can be good at making control players miserable
That said, as you were about to buy 8 cavern of souls (really not necessary vs control by the way, as not all control is countermagic) I am assuming that the budget is effectively infinite
swap doom blade with tribute to hunger
rune scarred will become 3 reaper from the abyss, +1 harvester of souls
deathmark becomes tragic slip
distress becomes black cat x2
consume spirit becomes liliana of the veilx4
With the block constraints, you don't have alot in the options department. What is your budget? if it's unlimited, I am going to suggest the good liliana and have her do the work for the demons
I am going to assume a limited budget because in the absence of information i always do.
So lets start with demons. I like removal, so let's stick alot of that in. In fact, I think we can even try to do something slightly controlish with these colors.
Heck, lets grab heartless summoning, because who wants to pay 5-8 for your dudes?
so, let's rehash: Kill everything, then mop up with big guys who are also tutors who draw lots of cards... and do it fairly early. Sounds good to me. This is a quick and dirty list, so take it for what it's worth.
4 Victim of Night
4 Distress
4 Deathmark
4 Bloodgift Demon
4 Rune Scarred Demon
3 Harvester of Souls
3 Griselbrand
4 Heartless Summoning
2 Consume Spirit
24 Swamp
angels have a similar theme, and they can rock the board alot better in the control suite. But instead of the boring "lol, DoJ" why not use white's ability to have fun with enchantments? So long as you have a creature, you can have a massive one with angelic destiny. And have it come back when it dies. Then stick it on the auramancer. Then... well, you get the point. Also why not draw some cards while you are at it.
3 Auramancer
3 Angelic Destiny
4 Mesa Enchantress
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
3 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Restoration Angel
3 Pacifism
4 Rancor
3 Nevermore
11 Plains
8 Forest
edit, wow, got carried away with other stuff and overlooked the enchants, derp.
Hymn to Tourach
Duress
Inquisition of Kozilek
Extirpate
Hypnotic Specter
Extirpate is fun, you hit one of the more annoying control spells, then make sure it never happens again. No counter, no salvation, no appeal.
Control decks have a problem with hand disruption quite often, If they burn control spells on the discard, they don't have any for the threats. If they save control for the threats, your hand disruption will often ruin them.
Might want to look at some of the old school suicide black. soften them up with hymns and specters, then drive the point home with nantuko shade and other small painful creatures
Edit: If your playgroup won't crucify you for it, Mind Twist should be on the list. If they are skeptical, run a single copy so it is legal in at least one format
Mystical tutor and gush only come out if strictly necessary, those have saved my bacon more times than I can count. If people complain i'll go down to one each so it's played as restricted instead of banned. That would open 3 slots, so probably ass in the disks for real sweeper power and another land, because i dislike having so few but do not know what to remove anymore
3 Memory Lapse
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
3 Daze
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Mystical Tutor
3 Gush
3 Ancestral Visions
3 Isochron Scepter
2 Devastation Tide
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Steel Hellkite
21 Island
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Nevinyral's Disc
4 Delver of Secrets
1 mystical tutor
1 Devastation Tide
4 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
Anything that wipes your own guys is bad for goblins. unless you were building around boggart shenanigans I guess
Mostly because I don't own any rune snags. Is rewind good enough to make the cut?
Snapcaster is in the board because i honestly forgot i had him until i was filling in slots for the board.
which CA/CQ do you think I should cut? Without fetches brainstorm often only lets me know just how screwed I am for the next 3 turns, instead I suppose more business should go in.
I have a bunch of dazes, the spell pierces obviously, snapcaster, what would you increase and decrease?
2 mysticals come out when people complain, what would take the slot? Might go down to a single copy since i am switching metas soon and the new one might not be so open
I also managed to get my hands on a chalice of the void, think there is a place for it? I have a couple control magics lying around, and can likely remove some stuff from my edh (blue sun's zenith, dominating licid, a second nevinyral's disk, another steel hellkite) as I don't use it much if you think there is a place for it.
3 Memory Lapse
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Mystical Tutor
3 Gush
3 Ancestral Visions
3 Isochron Scepter
2 Devastation Tide
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Steel Hellkite
21 Island
1 Devastation Tide
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Nevinyral's Disc
4 Delver of Secrets
1 mystical tutor
1 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
Channel does require you to pay a mana cost, but it's still definitively in the cheat category
Polymorph has been mentioned, so i should bring up its reusable cousin, proteus staff
Master Transmuter is akin to to elvish piper, but artifacts only, this includes bouncing itself to dodge removal. Still, there are more budget artifact tutors than creature tutors. Besides, Blightsteel colossus likes to meet new friends.
more fun stuff: not a cheat, but fauna shaman, and its big brother survival of the fittest are good ways to get those big guys into hand, then you can entertain yourself
So I took the expensive tempo creatures out of a legacy deck that could not use them properly, and thought maybe they can fit in here... the issue is where?
the deck's currently is a bit unfocused, that is true, i just don't know if i should go tempo or traditional control
as it stands there is not enough countermagic and i don't know what to add in because budget and all. The board can laugh at aggro all day long, bringing in 6 wipes and mystical tutor for the miracle goodness.
I am considering getting my hands on an academy ruins or two and dropping the sphinxes for more hellkites, because i like blowing things up
Mana base looks iffy on paper, with the amount of draw it has never been an issue in practice. that said, i can probably drop a brainstorm or two
4 wincons became 3 when my EDH deck needed some creatures
3 Memory Lapse
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Mystical Tutor
3 Gush
3 Ancestral Visions
4 Brainstorm
2 Devastation Tide
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Steel Hellkite
21 Island
1 Devastation Tide
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Nevinyral's Disc
4 Spell Pierce
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Ok, i missed the rectors, I selectively forgot they existed when they hit 40 bucks a few months back. Looks solid, not sure i can add much. But i like it, survival/nightmare was one of thos things i never got around to because of the costs involved.