You mentioned cutting to 21 lands. Thats a big jump. Was that a typo? What else would tou put in?
I'm not entirely sold on that move as of yet. I'm still testing with both versions. You only really NEED two lands, so you can cast mana dorks. Ideally you'll have 3-4 lands and never draw another. I would add the fourth enchantment cantrip (Fate Fortold in my list, Nylea's Presence in others n etc) to make digging more effective as well as to increase the rate you are digging.
Are you guys seeing any friction between ki or commune and helix? Seems you would lose helix quite a bit.
I've posted a thread on reddit that attempts to fix the inconsistencies with the deckbuilding in regards to helix and spells in general vs enchantments. Basically I argue that Eidolon of blossoms is the card draw, extra mana dork (read the thread) and bridge for great storms that the deck needs.
I am running 3 copies of helix in my list atm and have rarely milled all 3 of them while digging with Commune/KI. As long as there is one somewhere in the deck you can loop easily. Without a helix, simply churning through the deck and saving a twinflame to swing with a huge mana dork is still a win most of the time. There is a danger that you mill all of your win conditions, but it is unlikely enough I am not particularily worried.
The Eidollon list doesn't have the ability to support Dig Through Time which is the card that makes the deck as fast as it can be. Cutting it for a four drop significantly slows the deck down for what I view as an inferior card advantage engine than the Commune+Ki+DTT package.
The eidolon isn't there because it's the better card draw, although it often is. It's in there because it provides tons of value at every point during the game. I'm not sure how much testing you've done, but going off in the face of removal and countermagic is just impossible. Eidolon gives you the ability to just play magic and sculpt your hand until turn 6 or even later. It lets you tax their removal, 2 for one them, and even save a storm. I understand that 4 mana is a lot, but I would playtest a few games with it before knocking it.
As far as retraction helix goes, you said yourself that you can just churn through the deck without a retraction helix, so why wear the training wheels? Running all enchantments has meant that my KIs hit 3 cards VERY often, and that is the real key here. My deck is optimized to abuse the system that we are already running. We don't need dig through time or treasure cruise. They're great, but in a much different version than I advocate.
We are simply building different decks. Your version is a midrange-esque shell where mine would be the "aggro" variant. DTT finds missing pieces and is of the mentality that selection>raw card advantage. I simply do not think what we are doing outside of the combo is good enough to compete in the meta. Therefore I am trying to speed up what we are actually doing as much as possible.
I have around two dozen playtest games down with the deck so far, against removal and coutnerspells and not. I don't find it difficult to play around.
How do you beat Dissipate on Ascendancy pre-board? Post-board, seems like blue decks still destroy you when they bring in Gainsay and Negate to beat Swan Song. But I guess them's the breaks with combo. Might as well optimize the mainboard to crush aggro.
While I've yet to try the list against other actual decks, nor do I have much in the ways of experience in standard, it does seem like, at least in the early stages of the meta, we may be able to catch them off guard if we can manage to not reveal ascendancy until we combo off. Just playing mana dorks may push them to leave less counterspells up, in which case we can probably just push through.
Game 2 we just need to push and push i suppose, for obvious reasons, it is a pretty harsh matchup, but we can at least hope that the presence of tri colour support will push people into playing more spot removal than counters, main deck and sideboard. So we can potentially make a break that way.
You can play around counters to some extent. Forcing them to counter an Ascendancy and playing another for instnace. Thankfully blue control decks are not the quickest decks to kill you. Tempo would be much worse. It's the old cat and mouse game of control v combo. Sometimes you win sometimes you don't.
Are you guys seeing any friction between ki or commune and helix? Seems you would lose helix quite a bit.
I've posted a thread on reddit that attempts to fix the inconsistencies with the deckbuilding in regards to helix and spells in general vs enchantments. Basically I argue that Eidolon of blossoms is the card draw, extra mana dork (read the thread) and bridge for great storms that the deck needs.
I am running 3 copies of helix in my list atm and have rarely milled all 3 of them while digging with Commune/KI. As long as there is one somewhere in the deck you can loop easily. Without a helix, simply churning through the deck and saving a twinflame to swing with a huge mana dork is still a win most of the time. There is a danger that you mill all of your win conditions, but it is unlikely enough I am not particularily worried.
The Eidollon list doesn't have the ability to support Dig Through Time which is the card that makes the deck as fast as it can be. Cutting it for a four drop significantly slows the deck down for what I view as an inferior card advantage engine than the Commune+Ki+DTT package.
How do you beat Dissipate on Ascendancy pre-board? Post-board, seems like blue decks still destroy you when they bring in Gainsay and Negate to beat Swan Song. But I guess them's the breaks with combo. Might as well optimize the mainboard to crush aggro.
The deck is weak to blue decks with a large coutnerspell package, but I don't think they will make up a signficant portion of the meta. If that changes the deck will need to be altered greatly in order to compete.
Hi just thought i'd check this thread out, and I find this deck fascinating. Are there any videos of it in action? I'd like to get some idea on how hard it is to pilot.
Not particularily. You should goldfish a few dozen times in order to get the spell priorities right and to know what you can and can't do with X number of creatures and an ascendancy and etc but other than that it isn't too bad.
I agree with pretty much all of this. I cut both cornucopia and have gone up to 3 helix and 3 DTT. Cornucopia just doesn't do enough. I kept playing games where both of mine would up in the yard due to Commne and KI and just not caring. The list jsut feels smoother now. I'm also considering going to 21 lands.
I've been viewing this thread for a wee bit and have become addicted to the deck! I love combo decks in general and this one feels like it has some real potential. Before giving my .02 on individual card choices or anything else I'll post the list I'm currently testing, all of it is stolen from the great minds in this thread so nothing revolutionary.
The manabase is one stolen from a few pages back. It is the 6 fetch variant and I have found it to be pretty strong. I like having only 4 lands that come in tapped and feel that it speeds up the deck by a turn (or at least half a turn).
3 Dig Through Time
I personally believe the strongest card available to enable the combo is Dig Through Time. Looking at seven cards and selecting two, at instant speed when necessary, is just the best thing you can do to find the pieces you need. I think the dig for 7 outweighs the raw card advantage lead that Treasure Cruise offers. You generally aren't trying to find more cards, just specific ones. The mana cost difference between U and UU occasionally is an issue, but mostly you are not using either card until turn 3-4 after you have resolved a Commune with the Gods or Kruphix's Insight. Taking in consideration how valuable I think DTT is for the deck the other card choices become much easier.
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Kruphix's Insight
With the limited room in the deck available to fit in more card sifting I want to fit as many of these cards into the 60 as possible. The reason being, not only do they find key pieces to the combo, they also fill the graveyard which is a premium ability considering how valuable DTT is. Using these cards to turn on DTT also limits the other cards you want in the deck. Largely you want as many enchantments as possible to gain value out of KI as well as guaranteeing that they always hit. This makes other card choices much easier.
1 Evanescent Intellect
Considering I am leaning quite heavily on the green sorcery dig cards to find the pieces I need, I like having an enchantment win condition. The decision then is between EI and Burning Anger. While both cards have various scenarios where they supersede the other, I generally like the spell which costs less. While the mana isn't an issue once you are in a full blown loop, there are times where you are casting non-creature spells and digging for either a Retraction Helix or Astral Cornucopia to reach an infinite loop. EI plays better in these situations than BA.
2 Twinflame
While I think it is quite amusing that TF can be used as a win-condition by copying arbitarily large Mystics and Followers to swing for lethal, I usually use TF as an additional mana-dork while going off. There is a large amount of removal in the meta, and I believe that will be true even after it settles into it's true form. Twinflame can act as Sylvan Caryatid 5 and 6 which helps significantly versus decks capable of just killing all of the non-hexproof creatures.
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Fate Foretold
I chose these cards as my cantrips simply because they are the best cantrips that are also enchantments. I prefer FF over Nylea's Presence as I generally haven't had many mana issues, but gaining a card out of an opposing removal spell is quite useful.
The rest of the deck isn't really negotiable.
I have up to four slots available for games 2-3 to slide cards in. My current order of first remove, to last is...
I am generally sliding in cards which ideally slow the opposition down by a turn or two, or remove enough interaction from them that I gain at least a turn or two. I feel like these cards, while great, contribute the least to the speed of the deck. The idea is to slow myself by a turn in order to slow them by a turn. I usually only remove 3 cards, but on occasional I will go for a full 4 card cut.
4 Swan Song
This card comes in against blue decks I believe to be running a large number of counters and low cmc removal. Also against B/x control decks running thoughtseize+despise+removal.
3 Arc Lightning
Only against weenie aggressive strategies where I can reliably kill two creatures.
2 Voyaging Satyr
1 Twinflame
I group these cards together because I have been siding them in together. They are for R/x ramp decks or R/B/x decks wehre I believe I will face a ton of removal but less likely to see thoguthseize and despise. I have more time to assemble the pieces I need, just want them to survive.
1 Burning Anger
If I believe a Cranial Extraction type ability is coming, or if they have some other way to prevent self-mill being a kill. I cannot think of any off the to of my head, but insurance isn't bad.
4 Crippling Chill
For G/x decks such as Green Devotion. They generally have a smaller number of attackers which are just very large. Locking down a Polukranos, World Eater or Arbor Colossus for two turns, while also cantripping is very valuable.
Now! Wonderful people, tell me where I'm simply wrong or horribly idiotic.
It's 5 am and I can't sleep so I decided to check on this game o.0
First, I'm sorry Asenion, replacing out without a wave to you was most def rude but I went from a happy 40 hour work week to the "what are day offs again?" storm I'm currently in. Come mid-december the busy season will be over and I should have more time. Still should've posted in our QT.
Secondly, this was a really fun game to be in and I immensely enjoyed it. It's true that the whole claim switching jazz was Asenion's plan, but I think I did a fair job with it. I think we just clicked very well and used DayTalk to the utmost advantage. Had I had the time to continue I think we would've been able to control the vote much sooner and ended the game as planned. Though Seppel replacing me created much much more hilarity.
Thanks to TMCT for designing a game with outstanding flavor and really interesting roles.
While you don't have a trump to Ætherling in Boros you do have Assemble and Elspeth which give U/W the shakes if they land. Depending on your setup you have a chance to burn or aggro them out. Hammer of purph is sick against control.
Sorry I haven't been particularly active here, but this is the busiest time of year for me at work so I haven't been slinging much cardboard to contribute much.
@Menace: I would personally -1 Shock and +1 Chandra just to help shore up game 1 vs Midrange/Control as you look to be doing fairly well against WW/RDW. Either way the new list looks much better.
For a guy who is having a discussion to have a discussion, it seems to have help the rest of us see a few of the decks we're up against, even tho he's making everyone rage in his stubbornness.
Thank you for the break down of those decks.
Oh I took out the 2 ogre battledriver for 2 elspeth, sun's champion and the deck is working better. I just have to remember when to -3 instead of +1 when i play her.
EDIT: @yarpus
To state clearly, this is a deck specifically targeted at beat a meta consisting primarily of RDW, Esper, and UW.
I will prove, through my refutation that your list not only doesn't beat the aforementioned decks, but in a series of 100 matches I predict your list will win less than 5% of the games vs any of the lists.
but has a sideboard which transforms it into a midrange-control deck that specifically targets UW and Esper win conditions.
And does so in a way that is total fail. No card advantage, and slow/unwieldy/easily answered threats.
For reference I am going to be using the lists provided by SCGOpen in Worcester as it is the largest official tournament to feature the format in question. I am going to be using the top 8 decklists for reference due to time constraints. The lists can be found in their entirety here.
Here is the decklist you are presuming. I am replacing Flames with shock and removing guildgates in favor of 2 of each basic as you mentioned, Since you are moving to 1 Heliod, I am just upping the purph count because you haven't said what else you were bringing in.
Deck vs Self:
Your mana needs are crazy and unrealistic. Before you say anything, this is a paradigm of costs not weighted by the turn in which you may cast them.
1: R (Shock) W (Chained)
2: WW (Captain) 1R (Mortars) RW (Initiative)
3: 2W (Medic) 1RR (Anger)
4: Tajic (2RW) Helix (2RW) Heliod (3W) Purph (3R)
5: Assemble (3RW)
6: Aurelia (2RRWW)
You need 15.5 red sources and 15.0 white sources in order to expect to hit the right ratio of mana.
So by pure ratio you're only off by a little bit. Unfortunately you're trying to beat RDW and you can't wait until turn 3-4 to cast that Captain or the shock/mortars, so I'm going to weight your removal and early creatures higher in the analysis becuase you need to do something on turn 2 to win.
To cast those spells on time (turns 1-3) you need 17.5 White sources and 18.5 Red sources. So you either need to go back to the guildgates and waste a turn or you're not drawing your lands on time, and wasting turns. So by default your deck will be able to cast your spells 1-2 turns late. I'll be generous and say 1.
Owen's deck is designed to do one thing every single game. By the time his second turn is over he has three creatures on the board. He does this either by dropping three one drops onto the field or by going one drop into Burning-Tree Emissary into another creature.
Since you can't cast anything until turn 3 reliably, that means on the draw you've already taken 14 damage by the time you get to mortar something or play that precinct captain. You're at 6, and need to anger in order to have a hope, and that hope means him not drawing burn or pheonix for the rest of the match.
vs Owen, you lose.
vs Phillip
Phillip's list is about a full turn slower on the cloak but is capable of hitting for incredibly large numbers with Fanatic. On the play if you draw perfectly you can shock his turn 1 or 2 creature, mortars his next one, and chianed one after that. The problem is you only have 11 spot removal spells and you need 3 or 4 of them in the first 3-4 turns of the game. If you let something such as a Reckoner live long enough for him to untap and Fanatic you, you're going to lose. Also, you have no card draw. So going 1-1 against a Pheonix will also loose you the game.
I want to take a quick moment to say how much I love this list. It really is a thing of beauty.
Since you have no card draw, and a number of dead cards (namely your removal) and you will lose if he casts Sphinx's Revelation so you have to kill him before he can. Unfortunately your fastest start is a turn 3 precinct captain.
"BUT MY SIDEBOARD CARDS!" You may ask, the problem with your plan is, you're trying to out control a blue deck. Ain't gonna work. They have coutnerspells and Revelation, you don't even have any card draw or a way to get a 2-1. Even in game 2 (there won't be a 3) U/W could mulligan to four and pull away.
He plays 18 removal spells, you have 16 creatures and 1 non-creature threat. He plays sphinx's revelatoin, you have no card draw. Your fastest clock is turn 3 captain, his early removal spell is probably turn 3 as well and a turn 5 verdict wrecks your day. If you manage to get a turn 3 captain into a turn 4 legion's initiative and have mana up turn 5 to protect the captain, he may have to spend 3-4 cards to stabalize instead of 1-2.
Post board, you fold to Blood Baron. I know you have those 3 mortars but his Sin Collector/Thoughseize/Syncopate/Negate package means you'll never resolve it.
vs Christian, you lose.
vsDavis
Game1 you fold to Obzedat. You have 0 answers and are nowhere near fast enough to race him. The only way you don't loose to Obzedat game 1 is if you lose to Blood Baron first.
Game 2. Same as game 1. You can't beat Obzedat, you can't out draw a revelation deck, and your threats are too slow and unwieldy to even place a slight straing on the volume of removal/draw Esper has.
Actually I still think this one was assholish. More like contradiction than counterargument. But it's the opener - so, whatever.
But it is an opener. The phrase "counterargument" doesn't demand you provide evidence/reasoning in every single statement, just that every statement you make is baked up.
Breaking your statment up into base parts you have:
A) Sarcastic offensive yarpus comment
and
B) Thesis. "Simply because a deck is constructed in a unique way doesn't give it merit or competitiveness."
I'm not entirely sold on that move as of yet. I'm still testing with both versions. You only really NEED two lands, so you can cast mana dorks. Ideally you'll have 3-4 lands and never draw another. I would add the fourth enchantment cantrip (Fate Fortold in my list, Nylea's Presence in others n etc) to make digging more effective as well as to increase the rate you are digging.
We are simply building different decks. Your version is a midrange-esque shell where mine would be the "aggro" variant. DTT finds missing pieces and is of the mentality that selection>raw card advantage. I simply do not think what we are doing outside of the combo is good enough to compete in the meta. Therefore I am trying to speed up what we are actually doing as much as possible.
I have around two dozen playtest games down with the deck so far, against removal and coutnerspells and not. I don't find it difficult to play around.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
You can play around counters to some extent. Forcing them to counter an Ascendancy and playing another for instnace. Thankfully blue control decks are not the quickest decks to kill you. Tempo would be much worse. It's the old cat and mouse game of control v combo. Sometimes you win sometimes you don't.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Taking these questions on seperately.
I am running 3 copies of helix in my list atm and have rarely milled all 3 of them while digging with Commune/KI. As long as there is one somewhere in the deck you can loop easily. Without a helix, simply churning through the deck and saving a twinflame to swing with a huge mana dork is still a win most of the time. There is a danger that you mill all of your win conditions, but it is unlikely enough I am not particularily worried.
The Eidollon list doesn't have the ability to support Dig Through Time which is the card that makes the deck as fast as it can be. Cutting it for a four drop significantly slows the deck down for what I view as an inferior card advantage engine than the Commune+Ki+DTT package.
The deck is weak to blue decks with a large coutnerspell package, but I don't think they will make up a signficant portion of the meta. If that changes the deck will need to be altered greatly in order to compete.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Not particularily. You should goldfish a few dozen times in order to get the spell priorities right and to know what you can and can't do with X number of creatures and an ascendancy and etc but other than that it isn't too bad.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
4 Mana Confluence
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
Creatures
4 Kiora's Follower
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Fate Foretold
1 Evanescent Intellect
2 Twinflame
2 Retraction Helix
2 Astral Cornucopia
Card Selection
3 Dig Through Time
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Kruphix's Insight
4 Swan Song
3 Arc Lightning
2 Voyaging Satyr
1 Burning Anger
1 Twinflame
4 Crippling Chill
The manabase is one stolen from a few pages back. It is the 6 fetch variant and I have found it to be pretty strong. I like having only 4 lands that come in tapped and feel that it speeds up the deck by a turn (or at least half a turn).
3 Dig Through Time
I personally believe the strongest card available to enable the combo is Dig Through Time. Looking at seven cards and selecting two, at instant speed when necessary, is just the best thing you can do to find the pieces you need. I think the dig for 7 outweighs the raw card advantage lead that Treasure Cruise offers. You generally aren't trying to find more cards, just specific ones. The mana cost difference between U and UU occasionally is an issue, but mostly you are not using either card until turn 3-4 after you have resolved a Commune with the Gods or Kruphix's Insight. Taking in consideration how valuable I think DTT is for the deck the other card choices become much easier.
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Kruphix's Insight
With the limited room in the deck available to fit in more card sifting I want to fit as many of these cards into the 60 as possible. The reason being, not only do they find key pieces to the combo, they also fill the graveyard which is a premium ability considering how valuable DTT is. Using these cards to turn on DTT also limits the other cards you want in the deck. Largely you want as many enchantments as possible to gain value out of KI as well as guaranteeing that they always hit. This makes other card choices much easier.
1 Evanescent Intellect
Considering I am leaning quite heavily on the green sorcery dig cards to find the pieces I need, I like having an enchantment win condition. The decision then is between EI and Burning Anger. While both cards have various scenarios where they supersede the other, I generally like the spell which costs less. While the mana isn't an issue once you are in a full blown loop, there are times where you are casting non-creature spells and digging for either a Retraction Helix or Astral Cornucopia to reach an infinite loop. EI plays better in these situations than BA.
2 Twinflame
While I think it is quite amusing that TF can be used as a win-condition by copying arbitarily large Mystics and Followers to swing for lethal, I usually use TF as an additional mana-dork while going off. There is a large amount of removal in the meta, and I believe that will be true even after it settles into it's true form. Twinflame can act as Sylvan Caryatid 5 and 6 which helps significantly versus decks capable of just killing all of the non-hexproof creatures.
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Fate Foretold
I chose these cards as my cantrips simply because they are the best cantrips that are also enchantments. I prefer FF over Nylea's Presence as I generally haven't had many mana issues, but gaining a card out of an opposing removal spell is quite useful.
The rest of the deck isn't really negotiable.
I have up to four slots available for games 2-3 to slide cards in. My current order of first remove, to last is...
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Retraction Helix
I am generally sliding in cards which ideally slow the opposition down by a turn or two, or remove enough interaction from them that I gain at least a turn or two. I feel like these cards, while great, contribute the least to the speed of the deck. The idea is to slow myself by a turn in order to slow them by a turn. I usually only remove 3 cards, but on occasional I will go for a full 4 card cut.
4 Swan Song
This card comes in against blue decks I believe to be running a large number of counters and low cmc removal. Also against B/x control decks running thoughtseize+despise+removal.
3 Arc Lightning
Only against weenie aggressive strategies where I can reliably kill two creatures.
2 Voyaging Satyr
1 Twinflame
I group these cards together because I have been siding them in together. They are for R/x ramp decks or R/B/x decks wehre I believe I will face a ton of removal but less likely to see thoguthseize and despise. I have more time to assemble the pieces I need, just want them to survive.
1 Burning Anger
If I believe a Cranial Extraction type ability is coming, or if they have some other way to prevent self-mill being a kill. I cannot think of any off the to of my head, but insurance isn't bad.
4 Crippling Chill
For G/x decks such as Green Devotion. They generally have a smaller number of attackers which are just very large. Locking down a Polukranos, World Eater or Arbor Colossus for two turns, while also cantripping is very valuable.
Now! Wonderful people, tell me where I'm simply wrong or horribly idiotic.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
First, I'm sorry Asenion, replacing out without a wave to you was most def rude but I went from a happy 40 hour work week to the "what are day offs again?" storm I'm currently in. Come mid-december the busy season will be over and I should have more time. Still should've posted in our QT.
Secondly, this was a really fun game to be in and I immensely enjoyed it. It's true that the whole claim switching jazz was Asenion's plan, but I think I did a fair job with it. I think we just clicked very well and used DayTalk to the utmost advantage. Had I had the time to continue I think we would've been able to control the vote much sooner and ended the game as planned. Though Seppel replacing me created much much more hilarity.
Thanks to TMCT for designing a game with outstanding flavor and really interesting roles.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
My list has a total of 7 white mana symbols in the main (not counting Reck) and only 5 more in the board.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
@Menace: I would personally -1 Shock and +1 Chandra just to help shore up game 1 vs Midrange/Control as you look to be doing fairly well against WW/RDW. Either way the new list looks much better.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
<3 Elspeth
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
I will prove, through my refutation that your list not only doesn't beat the aforementioned decks, but in a series of 100 matches I predict your list will win less than 5% of the games vs any of the lists.
But doesn't. Naya or Dega will eat you alive, but that's a different story. And does so in a way that is total fail. No card advantage, and slow/unwieldy/easily answered threats.
For reference I am going to be using the lists provided by SCGOpen in Worcester as it is the largest official tournament to feature the format in question. I am going to be using the top 8 decklists for reference due to time constraints. The lists can be found in their entirety here.
Here is the decklist you are presuming. I am replacing Flames with shock and removing guildgates in favor of 2 of each basic as you mentioned, Since you are moving to 1 Heliod, I am just upping the purph count because you haven't said what else you were bringing in.
4 precinct captain
4 boros reckoner
3 frontline medic
3 tajic, blade of the legion
2 aurelia, the warleader
Non-Creature Spells
2 Shock
2 chained to the rocks
3 legion's initiative
3 mizzium mortars
3 anger of the gods
2 warleader's helix
1 heliod, god of the sun
4 purphoros, god of the forge
1 assemble the legion
4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
8 plains
7 mountain
--a work in progress--
1 legion's initiative
1 anger of the gods
2 chained to the rocks
1 assemble the legions
3 glare of heresy
2 wear//tear
2 mindsparker
3 pithing needle
Deck vs Self:
Your mana needs are crazy and unrealistic. Before you say anything, this is a paradigm of costs not weighted by the turn in which you may cast them.
1: R (Shock) W (Chained)
2: WW (Captain) 1R (Mortars) RW (Initiative)
3: 2W (Medic) 1RR (Anger)
4: Tajic (2RW) Helix (2RW) Heliod (3W) Purph (3R)
5: Assemble (3RW)
6: Aurelia (2RRWW)
Taking this into consideration I'm plugging your list into a George Baxter formula.
You need 15.5 red sources and 15.0 white sources in order to expect to hit the right ratio of mana.
So by pure ratio you're only off by a little bit. Unfortunately you're trying to beat RDW and you can't wait until turn 3-4 to cast that Captain or the shock/mortars, so I'm going to weight your removal and early creatures higher in the analysis becuase you need to do something on turn 2 to win.
To cast those spells on time (turns 1-3) you need 17.5 White sources and 18.5 Red sources. So you either need to go back to the guildgates and waste a turn or you're not drawing your lands on time, and wasting turns. So by default your deck will be able to cast your spells 1-2 turns late. I'll be generous and say 1.
So Deck Vs Self: Failed.
Deck Vs RDW
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Mutavault
18 Mountain
4 Shock
2 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Peak Eruption
1 Skullcrack
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Act of Treason
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Magma Jet
21 Mountain
2 Shock
4 Ash Zealot
1 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Burning Earth
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Mizzium Mortars
vs Owen
Owen's deck is designed to do one thing every single game. By the time his second turn is over he has three creatures on the board. He does this either by dropping three one drops onto the field or by going one drop into Burning-Tree Emissary into another creature.
Since you can't cast anything until turn 3 reliably, that means on the draw you've already taken 14 damage by the time you get to mortar something or play that precinct captain. You're at 6, and need to anger in order to have a hope, and that hope means him not drawing burn or pheonix for the rest of the match.
vs Owen, you lose.
vs Phillip
Phillip's list is about a full turn slower on the cloak but is capable of hitting for incredibly large numbers with Fanatic. On the play if you draw perfectly you can shock his turn 1 or 2 creature, mortars his next one, and chianed one after that. The problem is you only have 11 spot removal spells and you need 3 or 4 of them in the first 3-4 turns of the game. If you let something such as a Reckoner live long enough for him to untap and Fanatic you, you're going to lose. Also, you have no card draw. So going 1-1 against a Pheonix will also loose you the game.
vs Phillip, you lose.
Now, vs UW.
2 Dissolve
1 Celestial Flare
1 Aetherling
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Detention Sphere
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Azorius Charm
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Essence Scatter
3 Divination
2 Mutavault
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Quicken
8 Island
2 Syncopate
8 Plains
2 Yoked Ox
3 Glare of Heresy
1 Celestial Flare
2 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Last Breath
I want to take a quick moment to say how much I love this list. It really is a thing of beauty.
Since you have no card draw, and a number of dead cards (namely your removal) and you will lose if he casts Sphinx's Revelation so you have to kill him before he can. Unfortunately your fastest start is a turn 3 precinct captain.
"BUT MY SIDEBOARD CARDS!" You may ask, the problem with your plan is, you're trying to out control a blue deck. Ain't gonna work. They have coutnerspells and Revelation, you don't even have any card draw or a way to get a 2-1. Even in game 2 (there won't be a 3) U/W could mulligan to four and pull away.
vs U/W you lose.
vs Esper
2 Dissolve
3 Temple of Deceit
3 Temple of Silence
2 Aetherling
4 Far
1 Merciless Eviction
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Azorius Charm
1 Azorius Guildgate
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Detention Sphere
2 Doom Blade
1 Essence Scatter
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Godless Shrine
4 Watery Grave
4 Island
3 Syncopate
3 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Sin Collector
1 Merciless Eviction
2 Detention Sphere
1 Negate
3 Thoughtseize
2 Dissolve
3 Temple of Deceit
3 Temple of Silence
2 Far
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Aetherling
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Azorius Charm
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Detention Sphere
2 Doom Blade
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Godless Shrine
4 Watery Grave
4 Island
3 Syncopate
4 Plains
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Swan Song
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Doom Blade
2 Negate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
vsChristian
He plays 18 removal spells, you have 16 creatures and 1 non-creature threat. He plays sphinx's revelatoin, you have no card draw. Your fastest clock is turn 3 captain, his early removal spell is probably turn 3 as well and a turn 5 verdict wrecks your day. If you manage to get a turn 3 captain into a turn 4 legion's initiative and have mana up turn 5 to protect the captain, he may have to spend 3-4 cards to stabalize instead of 1-2.
Post board, you fold to Blood Baron. I know you have those 3 mortars but his Sin Collector/Thoughseize/Syncopate/Negate package means you'll never resolve it.
vs Christian, you lose.
vsDavis
Game1 you fold to Obzedat. You have 0 answers and are nowhere near fast enough to race him. The only way you don't loose to Obzedat game 1 is if you lose to Blood Baron first.
Game 2. Same as game 1. You can't beat Obzedat, you can't out draw a revelation deck, and your threats are too slow and unwieldy to even place a slight straing on the volume of removal/draw Esper has.
vsDavis you lose.
I rest my case.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
You think so? I still am not a fan of mountains in general and I try to be a polite elitist
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
But it is an opener. The phrase "counterargument" doesn't demand you provide evidence/reasoning in every single statement, just that every statement you make is baked up.
Breaking your statment up into base parts you have:
A) Sarcastic offensive yarpus comment
and
B) Thesis. "Simply because a deck is constructed in a unique way doesn't give it merit or competitiveness."
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG