I wonder why you choose to focus a little bit more on the discard versus hitting the opponent mana base?
Rakdos is suppose to help you bring your creature in a cheap way, I will try to build my deck, really close to what you have but more on the mana screwing side of the fence and give you feedback on it.
I really don't get the hatred vs. land destruction...
Please explain to me the rational behind it.
Mana is the base of a Magic deck and is the most critical part of it.
Disrupt it and you gain advantage. It feel like people who are unhappy about getting their creature destroy, I find it childish. It's part of the game, live with it and learn to use it.
Back on the main purposeof this post, LD can be target and be really effective.
Destroy Cabal Coffer and the black deck will scream to death, same apply to GC.
Strip Mine, Wasteland are the best target LD.
I LOVE Ruination!
And im asking myself, with Koko back in the game, how people are going to "optimise" him...are they going to do it to the point he might get back on the banlist?
Koko in a black-green Jarad deck will be insane. When you sac it all your opponent will take 10 in the teeth and you will be able to abuse it without even trying.
3 month and he is back on the banned list...
On another note, I love the players who are complaining because they didn't use Titan for anything degenerate. So let me get this straight. You didn't abuse Titan and he wasn't central to your strategy, but you still felt the need to come complain about the fact that you can't use him anymore. Yeahhhh. You guys are bad liars.
PT is an awsome and powerfull creature.
You don't seem to grasp the differenc between using and abusing.
You can use PT in your deck, without abusing it and be really piss off because you lose a powerfull creature that was not causing any problem in your play group.
Telling this group that they are bad liar is mean and uncalled for.
That my main problem with some EDH player, they pass their time telling that EDH must stay a "fun and casual" format, but pass their time trying to broke the card...
This banning will widen the chasm between those who follow the "official" banned list and those who have house rule. Thats a pity, because a more structure EDH community should be the main objective to those who decide on the banned list.
They just miss a good opportunityto do so and I fear the final result of this decision...
My perspective of this format is probably a bit warped by the fact that my only experience with it is this forum and my playgroup, which is comprised mostly of Legacy players who sleeve up their collections in singleton decks and play EDH like it's Legacy once a week. 95% of the decklists on this forum aren't posted asking how to make them more "fun," they're posted asking how to make them "better" (a.k.a. to make them more competitive - more capable of winning). I kind of assume that's representative of EDH everywhere.
BINGO!
You are dead on my friend!
And yet, this community choose there ban based on those ex-legacy player who want to win at all cost and don't care about how fun it can be.
Give it a year or two and EDH will become the next Legacy format, with overpower, combo hungry deck and moron player who don't care about making friend and just want to win by crushing your soul...
If half the community is really pissed about this ban, then don't follow it. Go to play groups with it that follow the banlist and just side it out with something else if they don't want you to play it. We can argue all day about whether it was right or wrong, I believe it was a wrong decision and the best way to show that is to simply not follow it. Don't be afraid to post a list with prime time in it or open a thread talking about ways to handle prime time.
That the main problem I have with this ban.
Most of the time When they ban a card, there is always some crying and moaning, but overall people "understand" to a certain point why we need to ban a specific card.
With PT, there is a huge amount of people and more then half the community where PT WAS NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL!!!
Is PT a powerfull card? Absolutely!
Is it helping in any deck with green? No kidding...
Was he worthy of a ban? Absolutely not.
I am under the impression that they create this ban to stop a small group of individual in their metagame from complaining, because they don't want to find a way of dealing with him.
This community arge himself to be all about fun play and creativity, but yet there is a group of "competitive" players who do nothing more then copie decklist from the internet, pack their deck with powerfull spell and complain when there deck doesn't work anymore because "Everybody copy my PT so they have to ban it"...
Since we are on the subject of ban list, the PT banning is on the same page as the banning of Karakas, it's ban because people DO NOT WANT to play land destruction! And yet, they prefer to let the problem grow without doing anything until someone decide to take care of the problam by banning a card.
I defy you to let people play with Karakas and you to pack some basic LD, you will see that Karakas will lose it's power really fast and that PT end up being just a big trampler with a cool hability...
First, I am completely agains the PT ban. Why? Because I feel players rely too much on the ban list and not enough on their deck building habilities to prevent this "warp" of the format. I hear two point coming back over and over:
1- People use the PT to tutor specific land (Urborg, Cabal Coffer, Gaea's Craddle...), generate a $hit load of mana and end the game the next turn.
2- It warp the format.
For the first point, there is some much possibility to anwser this, its ridiculous. There is an insane amount of spell and ability to destroy land (specific one or mass removal) and stop the mana ramp. Why not use them? The only answer I receive is "It's not fun, so let ban this card so I can continue to play without having someone touching my land". Who live by the sword, die by the sword. If your are ready to cheat your way of tutoring two powerful land, you need understand that people will try to prevent it and break it. So if the problem is having too much mana to fast, why is Cabal Coffer not banned???? Same thing for Gaea's Craddle. Frankly I find this argument ridiculous and laughable. Mana base should be the first thing a player think of attacking, it lock the opposition and give you the advantage. It part of the game, learn to live with it.
Second point is even worst. It "wrap" the format? What the hell is that??? Every time a new card come, the format change. What does the EDH community want? A format frozen in time, so people can build their deck and play them forever? Players need to adjust their deck based on what the other player do. Yes it can create escalation and yes some card need banning because they create ridiculous play (Grisealband come to mind). But now I feel that people want it banned because they don't want to change their deck to anwser it.
The "metagame" must never be a reason to ban a card and frankly I feel that the PT banning is one of them. They look at one specific metagame and decide to go for it, even if it create a problem only in this specific metagame and because people don't want to "wrap" the format. Their format...
I reiterate that I am agains this banning and create doubt in my mind over the efficiency of this banned list.
I hate cookie cuter card. Card that people use without thinking, the one that you can put in any deck and the only thing you can think of is [sarcasm]"Wow, what a brilliant move..."[\sarcasm].
The brain dead card: Survival of the fittest Aura shard Capsize
Iona
Tooth and Nails
It's the card that you can give to a monkey and he will be able to pull a win.
Cumulative upkeep is pretty steep. Paying 6 mana the third turn is a lot, you'd have to have to time it correctly, and even then I'm not 100% sold on
You never have to pay the upkeep past the first turn really.
Drop the Stairwell, and arrange yourself to have Altar of Dementia or Extractor Demon on board (or both) and mill the crap out of your opponent or yourself.
At your turn, pay the upkeep, drop Coat of Arm and end the game.
When you say "cut the non-basic between 5-7" do you mean if you could only run 5-7 non-basics -or- do you mean if I had to cut 5-7 of the non-basics?
I mean run only between 5-7 non-basic, thats the amount you can safely run in my playgroup without having the backlash of the non-basic hate.
I will choose:
Cabal Coffer
Urborg
Bayou
Overgrow Tomb
Stripmine
And the BG fetch?
Anyways, yes this has been discussed and after lots of discussion and testing, the Demon doesn't come down nearly as fast as Arena and is much more vulnerable to removal.
Also, I think you may be assuming that we win through general damage, therefore that ability is relevant. In more than 25 games now, I have killed one (1) person with Jarad's general damage. So, the argument could be made that its better to have a creature, but not for that reason.
Jarad's 3rd ability has never once been relevant. That isn't a concern with the Forests and Swamps. Coffers is only used once Urborg is out, I have no issue discarding it and getting it back when I find Urborg.
It's also not "a bunch of non-basics," they're all thoroughly tested and necessary to the success of the deck.
I am not gone 24h and I am already 3 pages late...
Yes the Bloodgift Demon as the same ability as Phyrexian Arena, but I mean to replace the Sylvan Library. My bad, I still love the card and will probably included him in my deck.
As for the "bunch" of non-basic, I was using bunch in the "a lot" sense and not "a lot of crap" sense. I am pretty sure they all have there utility (or you would have not put them in the deck), I am more concern on the non-basic hate that run in our play group, it will never work and you will get screw ten time over with this amount of non-basic.
Let's say you need to cut the non-basic between 5-7, wich one will you keep? Which one is essential?
Thanks!
First of all, two points:
1- I did not play the deck, so all my question came from regarding the decklist.
2- I did not go through 24 pages of discussion, so if my point have already be discuss, please dismiss it.
I was wondering if you try Bloodgift Demon?
It could serve the same purpose of Sylvan Library but as a creature that you can reanimate and it boost your commander.
Why do you only have 12 basic land and a bunch of non-basic? In my point of view, you reduce your possibility of recursion of your commander and diminish the effectiveness of your Cabal Coffer if you do not have Urborg in play. You also put you in a bad spot if your group tend to play non-basic hate (which my group does... A lot!).
Rakdos is suppose to help you bring your creature in a cheap way, I will try to build my deck, really close to what you have but more on the mana screwing side of the fence and give you feedback on it.
Void is another great card in those color.
I will check for the black and red stample, Donic Tutor, Wheel of Fortune.
There is a bunch of zombies that get +2/+2 for each sacrifice creature.
Please explain to me the rational behind it.
Mana is the base of a Magic deck and is the most critical part of it.
Disrupt it and you gain advantage. It feel like people who are unhappy about getting their creature destroy, I find it childish. It's part of the game, live with it and learn to use it.
Back on the main purposeof this post, LD can be target and be really effective.
Destroy Cabal Coffer and the black deck will scream to death, same apply to GC.
Strip Mine, Wasteland are the best target LD.
I LOVE Ruination!
Koko in a black-green Jarad deck will be insane. When you sac it all your opponent will take 10 in the teeth and you will be able to abuse it without even trying.
3 month and he is back on the banned list...
PT is an awsome and powerfull creature.
You don't seem to grasp the differenc between using and abusing.
You can use PT in your deck, without abusing it and be really piss off because you lose a powerfull creature that was not causing any problem in your play group.
Telling this group that they are bad liar is mean and uncalled for.
That my main problem with some EDH player, they pass their time telling that EDH must stay a "fun and casual" format, but pass their time trying to broke the card...
This banning will widen the chasm between those who follow the "official" banned list and those who have house rule. Thats a pity, because a more structure EDH community should be the main objective to those who decide on the banned list.
They just miss a good opportunityto do so and I fear the final result of this decision...
BINGO!
You are dead on my friend!
And yet, this community choose there ban based on those ex-legacy player who want to win at all cost and don't care about how fun it can be.
Give it a year or two and EDH will become the next Legacy format, with overpower, combo hungry deck and moron player who don't care about making friend and just want to win by crushing your soul...
That the main problem I have with this ban.
Most of the time When they ban a card, there is always some crying and moaning, but overall people "understand" to a certain point why we need to ban a specific card.
With PT, there is a huge amount of people and more then half the community where PT WAS NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL!!!
Is PT a powerfull card? Absolutely!
Is it helping in any deck with green? No kidding...
Was he worthy of a ban? Absolutely not.
I am under the impression that they create this ban to stop a small group of individual in their metagame from complaining, because they don't want to find a way of dealing with him.
This community arge himself to be all about fun play and creativity, but yet there is a group of "competitive" players who do nothing more then copie decklist from the internet, pack their deck with powerfull spell and complain when there deck doesn't work anymore because "Everybody copy my PT so they have to ban it"...
Since we are on the subject of ban list, the PT banning is on the same page as the banning of Karakas, it's ban because people DO NOT WANT to play land destruction! And yet, they prefer to let the problem grow without doing anything until someone decide to take care of the problam by banning a card.
I defy you to let people play with Karakas and you to pack some basic LD, you will see that Karakas will lose it's power really fast and that PT end up being just a big trampler with a cool hability...
First, I am completely agains the PT ban. Why? Because I feel players rely too much on the ban list and not enough on their deck building habilities to prevent this "warp" of the format. I hear two point coming back over and over:
1- People use the PT to tutor specific land (Urborg, Cabal Coffer, Gaea's Craddle...), generate a $hit load of mana and end the game the next turn.
2- It warp the format.
For the first point, there is some much possibility to anwser this, its ridiculous. There is an insane amount of spell and ability to destroy land (specific one or mass removal) and stop the mana ramp. Why not use them? The only answer I receive is "It's not fun, so let ban this card so I can continue to play without having someone touching my land". Who live by the sword, die by the sword. If your are ready to cheat your way of tutoring two powerful land, you need understand that people will try to prevent it and break it. So if the problem is having too much mana to fast, why is Cabal Coffer not banned???? Same thing for Gaea's Craddle. Frankly I find this argument ridiculous and laughable. Mana base should be the first thing a player think of attacking, it lock the opposition and give you the advantage. It part of the game, learn to live with it.
Second point is even worst. It "wrap" the format? What the hell is that??? Every time a new card come, the format change. What does the EDH community want? A format frozen in time, so people can build their deck and play them forever? Players need to adjust their deck based on what the other player do. Yes it can create escalation and yes some card need banning because they create ridiculous play (Grisealband come to mind). But now I feel that people want it banned because they don't want to change their deck to anwser it.
The "metagame" must never be a reason to ban a card and frankly I feel that the PT banning is one of them. They look at one specific metagame and decide to go for it, even if it create a problem only in this specific metagame and because people don't want to "wrap" the format. Their format...
I reiterate that I am agains this banning and create doubt in my mind over the efficiency of this banned list.
The brain dead card:
Survival of the fittest
Aura shard
Capsize
Iona
Tooth and Nails
It's the card that you can give to a monkey and he will be able to pull a win.
You never have to pay the upkeep past the first turn really.
Drop the Stairwell, and arrange yourself to have Altar of Dementia or Extractor Demon on board (or both) and mill the crap out of your opponent or yourself.
At your turn, pay the upkeep, drop Coat of Arm and end the game.
I mean run only between 5-7 non-basic, thats the amount you can safely run in my playgroup without having the backlash of the non-basic hate.
I will choose:
Cabal Coffer
Urborg
Bayou
Overgrow Tomb
Stripmine
And the BG fetch?
I am not gone 24h and I am already 3 pages late...
Yes the Bloodgift Demon as the same ability as Phyrexian Arena, but I mean to replace the Sylvan Library. My bad, I still love the card and will probably included him in my deck.
As for the "bunch" of non-basic, I was using bunch in the "a lot" sense and not "a lot of crap" sense. I am pretty sure they all have there utility (or you would have not put them in the deck), I am more concern on the non-basic hate that run in our play group, it will never work and you will get screw ten time over with this amount of non-basic.
Let's say you need to cut the non-basic between 5-7, wich one will you keep? Which one is essential?
Thanks!
1- I did not play the deck, so all my question came from regarding the decklist.
2- I did not go through 24 pages of discussion, so if my point have already be discuss, please dismiss it.
I was wondering if you try Bloodgift Demon?
It could serve the same purpose of Sylvan Library but as a creature that you can reanimate and it boost your commander.
Why do you only have 12 basic land and a bunch of non-basic? In my point of view, you reduce your possibility of recursion of your commander and diminish the effectiveness of your Cabal Coffer if you do not have Urborg in play. You also put you in a bad spot if your group tend to play non-basic hate (which my group does... A lot!).
Hazezon is awsome.