MTG Salvation

Definitely been wanting to get a MTG tat for quite some time, but always in the back of my mind I thought: "How can I justify THAT cost," then I thought to myself that if I could justify buying a playset of Goyfs, I can justify a tat.

Phyrexian Negator has always been my favorite creature, and absolutely fell in love with the storyline of Phyrexia, so I'm thinking of doing something along those lines. Perhaps I'll just keep it simple and get the Phyrexian Symbol on my right shoulder. We'll see.

Forlorn Egoist

Card Observations:
- Moat (or Island Sanctuary?) would have helped my Solitary problems (see below)?
- Elvish Spirit Guide or Mox Chrome would give me the ramp I needed.
- Elephant Grass rarely helped.
- Mulling into Leyline of Sanctity did help.
- The toolbox build is too inconsistent and slow, relying on tutors.
- I never saw Mirri's Guile, Karmic Justice.
- I never used Sacred Ground, Ground Seal, Lignify.
- I would rather have more Runed Halo, Oblivion Ring, City of Solitude
- You were right, cut Blood Moon.
- Add a 5th fetch land?
- Run 8 Forests and 4 Plains for Utopia Sprawl and to play Enchantress early?
- Karakas would be nice, with Crop Rotation?

ForlornEgoist's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards

Mandatory Draw/Fetch (12) 4 Argothian Enchantress 4 Enchantress's Presence 4 Sterling Grove Mandatory Win (2) 1 Sigil of the Empty Throne 1 Words of War Mandatory Protection (7) 3 Solitary Confinement 4 Elephant Grass Mandatory Help (10) 2 Replenish 4 Wild Growth 4 Utopia Sprawl Optional (9) 1 Aura of Silence 1 Enlightened Tutor 1 Karmic Justice 1 Mirri's Guile 2 Runed Halo 1 Oblivion Ring 1 Suppression Field 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon Land (20) 1 Taiga 1 Savannah 3 Windswept Heath 1 Arid Mesa 2 Serra's Sanctum 7 Forest 5 Plains Sideboard (15) 1 Blood Moon 1 Choke 1 City of Solitude 1 Ground Seal 1 Lignify 1 Oblivion Ring 1 Replenish 1 Sacred Ground 1 Suppression Field 2 Wheel of Sun and Moon 4 Leyline of Sanctity

Island Sanctuary: Don't bother. Part of the strength of Moat is that it shuts down opposing creatures immediately upon resolution. Island Sanctuary, while cheaper, requires you wait a turn which can be devastating, particularly for decks like VV. It also requires a draw engine, which you may not always have 2 Enchantress effects online.

Sacred Mesa: I don't necessarily think this card is outdated as it can enable you in the early stages to stall out if needed, however I prefer a 2nd Sigil.

Toolbox idea: Don't bother with it. With your Enchantress effects you can pretty much draw into whatever Enchantment you need, and Sterling/ETutor can find them. Don't bother trying to do cutsey things like a Wish board since they only slow down the deck and make it less consistent against decks that should be good MU's.

ESG/Mox: Don't run them. Enchantress doesn't need explosives starts. Yeah, it's helpful to slow aggro down those first 3-4 turns we struggle with, but overall they're absolutely useless late game. The only excuse I can think to run them is that if you're like me and attempting to tailor your deck to slow down/stop combo players, and are opting to remove the option of improving MU's against problem decks that use or run EE locks. Note that my meta is much more forgiving of my alteration because I am swarmed with aggro decks and only really have to worry about Lands getting an EE lock, or the 1-1-1 of ANT/Belcher/Reanimator. Even though I use them to ramp out T1 hate for combo, I loathe myself for running them. They're pointless and do nothing for the deck mid-late game.

5-8 Fetches: The only reason we run fetches in the first place is to fetch that singleton Taiga. Going beyond 4 is pointless life loss and offers nothing of notable value.

Crop Rotation: No. Land Grant: No. Any card beyond fetch that tutors a land: No.

Enlightened Tutor: A toolbox would require more tutors than 4 grove/1 ET. I would opt you go up to 2-3. As I've already said, however, toolboxes are pointless. And as Morbid said, Idyllic at least doesn't generate card disadvantage. Just don't bother with Tutors. Too slow to stop Combo, Control will just counter the tutored card, and Aggro likes you taking card disadvantage.

Forlorn Egoist

You could always steal the Aluren + Cavern Harpy engine to help build a storm count for Tendrils, although you would definitely have to tailor the deck to this combo. If you went with this engine, you could even just pick a seperate win-con that relies on storm (ETW, Brain Freeze, Grapeshot, Ignite Memories, etc. etc.). Tendrils/Freeze would be the best choices since they don't require you splash as well, but hey, the options are always available when you win via storm.

I'm not to huge of fan of a combo that would require 3 cards to win for this deck, but I definitely like that you're thinking outside this box. ;D

Forlorn Egoist

The problem I've had with a Engineered Plague is that in the past year or so it's lost much of it's use and utility against aggro.

Sliver's are non-existent. Similarly, Elves are as well. At best you name "Cat," against Zoo, in which case all you prevent is 1 damage. They can still burn your dome or trample you with big creatures. Merfolk has gained 2 new Lords since M10, so now that brings the base-minimum number of Lords in majority of Merfolk builds up to 12. If you get 2 Plagues in first 3 turns your solid, but beyond that their negligible.

The only deck E. Plague really has any affect on is Goblins, who, due to the prominence of Veng, are slowly being weeded out from the field as well.

As a black player it pains me to remove one of the cards that's been a staple in my SB for so many years, but it's time to move on and realize it just doesn't help us out in the current meta.

Dueling Ground, however, compliments the deck perfectly has it makes apt use of our Goyf/KotR, while at the same time forcing opponents (such as Veng/Merfolk) who would normally swarm us to slow down and fights us 1v.1.


I actually just heard about Dark Horizons tonight at a tourney, and have to say after doing some Gold Fishing with it that I plan to switch over. Currently I'm playing Deadguy Ale w/splash for Goyf, and have decided I like the direction that this deck takes. I've always loved the idea of Mom/Stalker/Stoneforge toolbox, but I've slowly begun to realize that they are just "safe," cards that do little to actually affect the game state. Horizons, however, makes better use of the cards it's dealt, and the Moxes especially seem like a solid acceleration (which makes me feel better since I still feel the pain of having to give up the Dark Rits when I made the switch from MBA).

Hopefully I can get the Bayou's/Moxes I need before the next big Legacy event.

Forlorn Egoist

Hey, so, I'm interested in build a variant. I had originally acquired Volcanics for Sneaky Show, but after a few weeks of playing it I've lost interest. I had also considering Landstill/Tempo Thresh, but Landstill is too slow for my favor and it would seem Canadian Thresh has lost favor since New Horizons/Survival became popular, so I've decided to look at Merfolks.

I've looked all over the web and have thusly seen nothing for a Merfolk build. I would assume, of course, the reason for this is that offers Merfolk little if anything. But hey, I could be wrong. If anyone has any ideas, they'd be appreciated.



Is what I'm currently looking testing. Merfolk is rather hard to splash for since you really only have a few slots to play with before you alter the deck style from aggro to control.

My meta has a lot of VengeSurvive, Aggro Loam, and Merfolk, so Spell Snare gets a lot further for me than Pierce. Also note the lack of Cursecatcher. Yes, it sucks to lose a 1-drop for this deck, however it's only use would be an extra daze against counters, whereas Taurean Mauler provides a bigger body to help me fight against bigger creatures like Venge, Crusher, Terravore and Goyf. He also stands to benefit from Lords due to his Changeling ability.

The sideboard is the main reason I'm splashing :symr:. I'm considering Blood Moon to help with the Land/Loam MU, and REB to deal with Mirror MU/counters.

These are just a few thoughts. Suggestions appreciated.
Forlorn Egoist

I am in agreeance that Seething Song has lost much of its favor. In Mono-:symr: it does wonders, but beyond that the only use it has in this deck is to do that rare instance of powering out SA + Creature. Beyond that, its useless. Not to mention the only time you'd ever even need to do that is T1 or T2, which I think the "symu: build would only be weakened if we tried it. I can live with a T3 kill if it means I have a solid gurantee.

I actually am currently considering cutting the SA entirely in favor of more of extra counters/Intuition. I'm just of the opinion that it really isn't necessary when you had the 8+ cantrips and the 8+ counters the the aspect of this deck. Since I'm aiming for a T3 kill, I can easily stall them out until I have a Show/Creature/Counter in hand. This is all just speculation, however. At the moment I am still running SA (2-of) as I am still figuring out what cards would best replace it.

Forlorn Egoist

Quote from the cow

ForlornEgoist's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 scrubland 1 fetid heath 1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth 1 volrath's stronghold 1 phyrexian tower 4 marshflats 4 plains 4 swamp

You're manabase looks a tad...off.

You're running 19 creatures AND you have Bob to help run through you deck to enable that consistenly draw. You're also running Sculler/Gatekeeper, so you're also removing threats. Sure, the Stronghold may be good in that random instance where you need to recover a Bob or Persecutor, but beyond that I would say you're better off adding a 2nd Tower since that provides a valid effect you may need to win.

Fetid Heath is completely unecessary. The deck has a low mana curve and nothing requires :symw:. The only instance I can find any use for this is helping to pay for Gatekeeper, and even then when you're running it as a 1-of it's doubtful you'll have this on the field at the time you have Gatekeeper.

You're also running more plains than necessary. I would suggest dropping 2 plains for 2 fetches, that way you have a better likelihood of fetching a dual if necessary. Although I'm sometimes loathe to lose that extra life, there are an equal if not greater number of times where a dual is far more useful than a basic or an extra life. If you're afraid of getting Wasted, remember that A) they lose a land in the process, B) Our mana curves at 2 so it's not devastating and C) Bob can easily draw out anything you need to replace.

So, here's my suggestion for your manabase:



I've been getting into this deck alot lately, and here's my take on it:



Originally I ran Gatekeeper's as opposed to Tidehollow, however lately I've felt that the can be hard to cast on ocassion, particularly when I'd rather fetch a basic plains than a Scrubland. Tidehollow is also generous in that he removes threats beyond creatures which are typically harder for me to deal with, such as planeswalkers.

I'm still on the fence with Mom. I've always been a big fan of hers, however my currently meta has begun to favor combo, vengevine, and aggro loam, neither of which particularly warrants her. She's a solid 1-drop, however there may be better things I can put in her place that would help me against said MU's.

SDT has been the MVP for this deck. It increases the overall effectiveness of Bob and works wonderfully with my 8 fetches. It also permits me to run Tombstalker in the deck.

I am one of the few players who has still opted for Tombstalker over Abyssal Persecutor or no substitution. The reason for this is that while Persecutor is amazing, to make him work effectively you have to change the dynamic of the deck, adding multiple sac outlets who primarily are there to compliment him, whereas with Tombstalker you don't need any special cards to make him effective. Much as I'd like to run him as a 4-of, I'm afraid with 4 Bob/4 TSeize/ 8 fetch I can't justify the potential lifeloss. Luckily, 4 Top is proficient enough to enable him as a 2-of.

I've seen several builds run Sword of Body and Mind in their
toolbox. I, on the other hand, feel it's completely useless to us. The pro-blue is negligble as is the pro-green since the static +2/+2 of SoFI/SoLS already enable us to handle VengeSurvive, and our kill spells should be killing opposing Goyf's. The 2/2 token is, at best, a blocker. The mill effect is also moot and potentially dangerous since it helps out decks such as: Enchantress, Aggro Loam, Land, Dredge.




This was the SB I had when my deck was Mono-:symb:, so I've had to alter it somewhat. As stated above, my current meta is starting to see more Combo (Belcher/Storm), VengeSurvive, and Aggroloam with a random 43.land and Stax.

My current SB:



I rarely find myself needing Dystopia, however on ocassion 1 of the 2 other Enchantress players (beyond myself, of course) decides to play, and this is the card which I found hurts them the most. Perish also helps somewhat, thought that is meant more for the VengeSurvival MU.

I've also considered running Ethersworn Canonist in the SB to help with the Storm MU. I may take out the Engineered Plague's for that. It pains me as a black player to remove what I've considered to be pretty much an auto-include in any deck that considers itself black, however my meta only rarely sees tribals, and the few that I still do see are typically either newer players who opted for Gobs/Merfolk since their cheaper, or casual players who switch between decks like Slivers/Soldiers/Kithkins because they're fun.

Suggestions for my SB are appreciated.

Forlorn Egoist

Quote from TheRogue

What would make more sense is to take out words of war and put in sneak attack to drop emrakul so he has haste and gets down to business faster. (I haven't had a chance to try it in my build yet.)

Hmm.... I hadn't considered running Sneak Attack in the deck for Emrakul. My main complaint with Emrakul to this point has been that he costs 15 mana at which point we can essentially pick a win-con. This, however, would most definitely let us power him out many turns faster. I'm definitely going to test this in my build this coming Tuesday at Legacy.

I'm not sure how many I'll plan to run. I already run 3 E. Tutors, so perhaps 1-2 would be appropriate.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Forlorn Egoist

Quote from Barl, Artificer

Also Egoist cursecatcher can only tax instant's and sorceries so he couldn't have countered your turn 2 suppression field with its ability.

O.O........ would you also explain to me what "the stack," is and what I should do if I accidently forget to untap a land during the untap step, because apparantly, I'm just newbing it up right now. ^^'

Forlorn Egoist

Quote from TokoboTenkai

Hey guys, been trying out the deck, a couple of questions here (discussed with Poppele just now but unfortunately his tourney samples are of small metagames):

What is a good count for Blood Moon, Spell Pierce and REB/Pyroblast in the SB?

Shall I assume that you're doing a build? The count really depends on your meta. My meta is infested with survival, bant, and merfolk, as such I'm running 4 Pyroblast and 3 Spell Pierce. I'm still deciding if I want to keep the Blood Moon count at 2 or remove it entirely. The reason being that all of the decks above running several basics and the only other deck in my meta they would be useful against is 43 Land.

What's your meta like?

Forlorn Egoist

After weeks on end of playing Dragon Stompy, I decided this week to take a break and play Enchantress. So... here are my tournament results/MU's:




Round 1 Goblins
G1: Was a rough start. I had to mull to 4 because of repeatedly bad hands, and ended up keeping: Plains, E Tutor, Wild Growth, WoW. I kept it because I doubt I could survive a 3 mull. He drops a T1 Lackey, T2 hits w/Lackey dropping Warren Instigator. T3 Beats with both to drop Mommy (with First Strike) Ringleader, Piledrive. I lose.
G2: -2 Ground Seal -1 Emrakul +3 Null Rod Nothing too interesting here. I get a T2 Argothian, T3 Presence, then proceed to drop a series of 1cc enchantments until I have enough to blow him out with WoW.
G3: Repeat process from G1, only he drops a T2 Instigator, T3 beats w/Instigator dropping 2 Piledrivers, then decides to reveal 2 other Piledriver's in hand. I fold.
0-1

Round 2 Saito Merfolk's
G1: He fetches for Underground Sea and drops a Cursecatcher. I realize immediately what he's playing. 1 Forest/Growth, Argothian, 1 Grass,2 Sterling Grove, 1 Replenish is what I have to start out with. I T1 Forst/Growth. He T2 beats/drops 2nd Cursecatcher. I drop a grass, hoping to stall out so I can keep that Argothian and make him sac the Catcher's to something else. He then gets 2 lords and owns me.
G2: -2 Ground Seal -1 Replenish -1 Emrakul -1 E Tutor +3 City +2 Field T1 Forest, he T1 CC. I T2 Suppression Field, which he lets resolve for some weird reason. He then drops a fetch and tries to crack, not realizing that Field shuts off fetch (he though fetch was a mana ability, so I had to explain to him what was considered a mana ability). This shut's him off for roughly 10 turns which is more than enough for me beat him.
G3: I keep a no-Enchantress hand, vying for the City/Field I see in my opening hand. I manage to get both out (he learned from before and got a vial/some basic lands out) and he proceeds to get 2 lords and a Coralhelm out. I drop 2 Grasses, and then stall until I get 2 Enchantress' and a Solitary lock. Afterwards I just mill away the wee hours till I find my Sigil near the bottom and kill him.

1-1

Round 3 White Weenies
G1/2: Not much to report here. He's a 40-something year old guy who has 200 casual decks. He comes every week, picks a deck at random, and plays it. I won both games within first 10 minutes.

2-1

Round 4 Something Similar to Bant
G1: He does a T1 Hierarch, which makes me go: "☺☺☺☺, now I get to worry about EE/Jace 2.0 fatesealing me." This isn't the case. I learn after asking, like, 10 times if what I'm doing (like cracking fetches, casting spells, etc.) if they resolve that he actually doesn't play blue for anything other than Brainstorm. Huh. Otherwise he played the deck exactly like Bant, even using Bloodbraid Elf. I drop 2 Sterling's (to shroud from Qasali/O-Ring), stall for a couple turns, then manage to drop an Emrakul around T10.
G2: -2 Ground Seal -1 Replenish +3 City This game goes just horrible for Me. I keep a 1-land hand, seeing an Argothian and 3 Wild Growths and a Grass. He does T1 Hiearch, T2 Hierarch 2/3, T3 Birds/Bloodbraid Elf. Cascades into Qasali. Hits for 7. T4 Bloodbraid cascades int Qasali, proceeds to rape me.
G3: T1 Forest/Growth. He T1 Hierarch. T2 O-Ring Hiearch. He T2 BoP. T3 I drop an Argothian then a Sterling. He T3 BoP. I T4 Sterling/Growth/Argothian. Afterwards I just stall out until I get an Emrakul.

3-1.


So.... yeah. After tonight, I have some thoughts:

1) Ground Seal has always been a favorite because it cantrips/shuts off GY shennaigans such as EE/DR/Loam, but it ultimately is dead in all my aggro MU's, which I struggle with far more than control.

2) Karmic Justice is definitely something worth a MD1/SB1 slot as it deals with board destruction and things like K Grip.

3) Suppression Field definitely hurts a lot of decks, and has thusly justified it 4-of in my SB. I definitely think Elvish Spirit Guide is worth sticking in the MD as a 2-3 of so as to accelerate out T1-2.

Currently the changes I'm considering:

MD: -2 Ground Seal -1 Solitary Confinement +2 Elvish Spirit Guide +1 Karmic Justic

SB: -1 Null Rod +1 Karmic Justice

Forlorn Egoist

Quote from Stover

ForlornEgoist's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Winners: 3x Bitterblossom 4x Dark Confidant 4x Bloodghast 2x Umezawa's Jitte Disruption: 4x Sinkhole 4x Vindicate 4x Smallpox 4x Hymn to Tourach 4x Inquisition of Kozilek Handy: 1x Stoneforge Mystic 3x Dark Ritual 2x Swords to Plowshares	Lands: 4x Scrubland 1x Godless Shrine 4x Marsh Flats 3x Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth 3x Flagstones of Trokair 1x Plains 1x Swamp 4x Wasteland	Sideboard: 2x Swords to Plowshares 1x Thoughtsieze 2x Duress 3x Extirpate 2x Faerie Macabre 5x ????

Any comments on the list?

I feel that the worst matchups for this deck are Faeries and Goblins. What can I put in the SB against these matches?

I've never been overly fond of Hymn as I prefer an extra creature or spell over random discard, which is especially useless against decks like Goblins that drop their entire hand within first 3 turns. I would suggest:

-4 Hymn

+2 StP
+2 Stoneforge Mystic

Yes, you only run 2 Jitte. However, it's important that you're able to get them asap, especially with Bitterblossom, a low creature count, pox, fetch pain, not to mention the damage tribal decks can steam out at you. It's also a plus to be able to cancel out an opposing Jitte.

As for SB options, my suggestions would be 4 Engineered Plague and 3-4 Pithing Needle/Null Rod/Powder Keg.

Pithing Needle is the safest option as it enables you to remove vial or jitte.

Null Rod, while hitting your own equipment, also hits all opposing artifacts which can be handy not just in tribal MU but also against decks like Ravager and Countertop.

Powder Keg is useful since it can also nix creatures even though you have to wait 1-2 turns to kill anything viable.

Forlorn Egoist

The problem with Iona is that beyond a build, she really only offers herself up as a 7/7 flyer. The reason for this that majority of the builds outside builds will rely on Sneak Attack and Through the Breaches to cheat her into play, both of which require you sac her eot. She doesn't stall the game out, and the protection she provides you is overshadowed by the fact our deck is meant to rush creatures out by turn 2 or 3, at which point your biggest worry is countermagic.

At least with you have Show and Tell that lets you keep a creature. With our deck it's important to use creatures that are aggressive and not simply defensive. Our deck is a combo deck, and we want the game to end asap. We don't want to try and stall out an opponent. That's why the Eldrazi's (Annihilator), Woodfall Primus, and (even though he's no longer used but still a personal favorite) Nicol Bolas see play, because not only do they provide evasion/resiliance, but they also supply us with an effect that can be crippling to an opponent early or (gods forbid) mid-late game.

Granted not everyone wants to invest the $200 for Volcanics and $160 for FoW, in which case other variants are perfectly fine. Being a Dragon Stompy player, I've found the Mono-:symr: Stompy shell to be a great skeleton to use for Mono-:symr: Sneak Attack. All you really have to do is substitute the Jittes/Creatures for Sneak Attack parts.

Forlorn Egoist

I've been playtesting Hellcarver Demon and I definitely believe he's a good balls-in creature. He has flying (which most decks can't defend against beyond spell removal) so you're almost guranteed to to make use of his ability. Granted you would need to tailor the deck so it has a higher creature count, but I think it could definitely have potential in a build.

Here's what I'm considering. I'm basing it off the GP Columbus build because after messing around with the numbers, I think he found a good balance.



I'm almost tempted to cut a 4th Daze for and extra slot of acceleration (Petal) or perhaps a Wipe Away, but since our deck aims to go off within the first few turns I may require that added counter protection. However, spot removal may be necessary incase I get into a counter war and become stalled for several turns.

Forlorn Egoist

Quote from mrmaul558

Are there any other B things that could justify splashing for B rather than R?

A friend in my local meta has played The Abyss to some varying degree of success. In my opinion it's too slow to make the black splash worth it, but I assume he was doing it more so for an excuse to use Abyss rather than practicality.

Forlorn Egoist