Hi - I'm looking to feature this deck on my podcast Pauper's Cage soon. If you are, or if you know someone who would be a good "expert" on the show, pleas e-mail me at [email]JasonMoore229@gmail.com[/email] - looking for someone with extensive knowledge and DE results. Thank you!
Hey I was wondering If anyone had has had any luck with the deck? Im sure there is a way to make it really stick in the meta?
Heavy discard/Removal really ends some decks by forcing them into top deck mode, forcing a discard if they try and stockpile/draw and then destroying all creatures as they are played.
Also every deck runs at least 1 non creature non land card that is useful or can really do damage to us. So why not main deck around 3 Duress to pick apart the hand strategically and force them to discard what we want them to and set them back as much as we want them to be set back. Also the info from looking at their hand allows us to plan out future turns for our benefit.
Phyrexian Rager and Sign in Blood should still be auto includes to dig through the deck and get the pieces we need.
Tendrils of Corruption should be a go to removal spell since in alot of the matchups (many of which are creature based) we could really use the extra life so 4 is probably great.
Chittering rats is a given due to the setbacks it provides and it really hurts to play it out when your opponent is down to 1-2 cards that provide them with little to no advantage.
Now as for a finisher to the deck there are two options that I notice right off the bat...
First we have the classicCorrupt for 6 mana we drain 6 or more life depending on the stage of the game we are at. With the life drain and sustainability from its little brother Tendrils Of Corruption we should be in the clear and be hitting the opponent hard for huge late game swings and advantage.
Next is the Twisted Abomination for 6 mana we can hard cast this reliable threat and put them on a 4 turn or fewer clock in a normal matchup. With the low regeneration cost of on black mana he wont be going anywhere too soon once he resolves. And unlike Corrupt during the early game he isn't a dead card because of his swamp cycling ability.
I feel that roughly 22-24 Swamp is a good number because of the use it provides with Raven's Crime.
I feel that these card choices can give us a more interactive gameplan and provide a more "in your face" play style that will force opponents to react rather than just amassing an army of swamps.
Duress
Vs. Stompy- hits pumps
Vs. Post(U/r)-hits draw, burn, maps ect.
Vs. Post(simic)- hits Reap and Sow,maps,draw
Vs. Delver- Hits counters and draw
Vs. White weenie- Possible Side out
Vs. Affinity- Possible Side Out
Vs. Mirror- hits corrupt, kill, removal ect..
Now what we have left is to shore up weak matchups such as post via. the sideboard:
Choking Sands should probably be in at 4 to hit Cloudpost specifically as well as deal incremental burn damage 2 damage to the face can really add up and it does put a damper on the life gain from the Glimmerpost.
Distress when Duress is bad in a matchup we shouldn't give up on meddling with their hand we should meddle harder and pick out pesky creatures before they become a problem and in a way really stretching our removal. Probably a 3 of.
Relic of Progenitus we all know that this deck is pretty slow and we will eventually have to deal with the flicker-wall combo this card says hello and goodbye to it.
Dead Weight says hello to stompy pump spells and atog.
Unmake exile a creature for 3 black mana stops undying and persist mechanisms.
So I hope this post helps and I am really looking forward to any thoughts on this I kind of gathered a bunch of information on the deck and spit it up right here let me know what yall think:D
Is it also an issue with the deck that the popularity of storm meant that main deck prismatic strands could be easily justified, which gave you incidential game 1 blowout potential against stompy/goblins. Now if you're packing that main board, you're playing a card which is pretty bad vs a lot of the popular decks (UR post, delver, temporal storm) which makes it harder to justify doing so?
Anyway, unless someone can come up with a WW list that has actual game vs UR post, I wouldn't want to be playing the deck in the current meta. Its declining popularity seems to be confirming that unfortunately...
Strands certainly won't be exciting vs Delver/Fissure, but its usefulness vs. Post is actually pretty swingy. It goes from meh to game-winning depending on the situation. Are you this concerned about Post because you think the matchup is an auto-loss no matter what, or because you feel Post is a high enough % of the meta to deter you?
I think WW got real hurt by the bannings ~ Infect & Grixis Storm were some of it's best MUs in terms of hate. Without that ~25% of expected games, and a solidifying around 8Post, the midrange-y tech of WW is less relevant.
I agree that there is less appeal from a sideboard haterade standpoint, but its midrange advantages don't really suffer. Those "banned deck" matchups weren't particularly insane, either. Just playing devil's advocate.
Hey guys! So a couple big things have impacted the Pauper format, namely the bannings and the release of Gatecrash. We have seen the field shift this past month, with WW putting in work only occasionally. Where do you think the deck stands at the moment? What kind of build (if any) is ideal at this point in time?
Hi guys, just wanted to throw some ideas out there. I'm posting here because I feel like midrange has a place in the current Pauper metagame, so please keep pushing it!
First of all, there is already a midrange deck in the format. It's called Affinity! The deck goes over the top of every aggro deck by playing 4/4s, drawing cards and playing removal. Against control decks, it assumes the beatdown role. Having a two-card combo to immediately win the game (Atog and Fling) is also quite nice.
When brewing up midrange, make sure you are doing enough to simply hose aggro. This means you want to go over the top of them with bigger creatures that stop them in their tracks. Don't get too caught up with playing small 1/1s and 2/2s.
Also, you can't try to beat everything! This is especially true against the current field. If you're going to build a midrange deck, do it so you can smash aggro and also disrupt one of the other archetypes (I would probably aim for combo). If you're in black, do this with hand disruption (you can also opt for land death because black has that too). If you're in red, go for the enchanted lands and the Karoos. Do what you can about Clodupost, but I would honestly just be okay dying to it and move on.
That's all I have to say at the moment. Hope this helps, and keep brewing (I know I will)!
I recently seen an article on MTGOacademy about this deck and really enjoyed it. I've been wanting to run G/B but not madness (I prefer B/R Tortured). The article is here.
As the comment section says the Primal Huntbeast feels like a weak spot for the deck, but I didn't love any of the suggested replacements either. I was thinking maybe Rubbleback Rhino since it has a fatter butt, but not too thrilled.
Any suggestions for this deck? It's a blast.
Here is a list if you did not want to go to the article.
Thanks for posting a thread about this, and linking to my article! I'm really glad that you enjoy the deck. From what I've heard, the list actually placed at least once not long after I put out the videos of my Daily Event with it. I hope the name Golgari Monsters continues to stick, as it has been referred to that by some other writers.
At the moment I don't have many suggestions, though Trusted Forcemage is a card I've tried in similar builds. I would give her a shot before trying anything too drastic. Let me know if you continue to experiment with this strategy. Thanks again!
I just got around to watching them. They were very nice.
So what did you think about that decklist, compared to the others that run more 3 drops? You swapped out a strands for a bonesplitter, any other changes you'd make? Did you like the steppes?
Hey Rickster. I've been playing around with Shyft4/Jumper's lists and analyzing them with some players I definitely respect.
As far as Shyft's main, I'd remove Knight of Sursi for something better (my initial impression is Porcelain Legionnaire). Knight of Sursi seems too slow and not useful enough when there's already 16 better fliers in the deck.
Now for the Steppes...I can't stand them. They mess up otherwise good opening hands or slow down your War Falcons for apparently no reason. The deck's mana should be oriented for the early game rather than the late game IMO. So yeah, I would definitely cut some or all of those.
I think Guardian's Pledge seems like a 2 of in the main seeing how the Hawks are putting a much better clock for WW now... If that's the case, which things should I swap around? I want to see maybe 1 more Attendant's Knight in the main now. I really like the ghetto Blade Splicer effect.
Oh here's a recent list with a single pledge:
BambooRush (3-1)
Pauper Daily #4182408 on 08/11/2012
That's me by the way! The videos for that DE should be up on mtgoacademy in a few days. Also, I did some playtesting with Chris' decklist and those are being posted to my youtube as we speak.
I like the war falcon deck because you cut the 3/4 drops and can actually keep some 1 land hands so you mulligan less. I'm guessing the falcon gives you a slightly faster clock vs izzet post which is welcome.
I have been satisfied with the attended knight (only have 2), as it's great vs those single target removal decks, and the first strike is very relevant with his two power.
How do you sideboard though? The sideboard is full of removal or non knights/soldiers creatures. If you remove some knights/soldiers do you also remove some falcons? How many knights/soldiers can you cut while still supporting 4 falcons? Most decks run 20-22 knights/soldiers.
War Falcon decks have been placing in the Dailies, and yes Attended Knight is a good fit in those decks. Some opponents will attempt/be able to remove your Falcon-supporting creatures with spot removal, but Attended Knight develops your board while also making that plan extremely less viable.
DimecollectoR, I was trying to build a similar thing, I mean with Empyrial Armor, but more based on exalted+evasion mechanics. Still under construction though
Win Condition(s): -Pumping Stampeding Rhino or Mortis Dogs + Pumps + Innocent Blood/Doom Blade
Questions:
- Is 62 cards a problem? I really like the multiple elements to the deck and really dont see where I can free up those 2 cards.
- Can an idea like this work? Can I actual win a few casual pauper games with this?
- What would I add to a side deck (besides just extra Doom Blades or
Rhino's)?
- Any thoughts or tips overall?
Thanks everyone.
62 cards is a problem. I've never played a 62 card deck, so I don't have the mathematical knowledge to back me up, but your list illustrates a bigger overall issue. That issue involves trimming what you have into a more focused and efficient deck concept (just my opinion).
You can win some casual games playing most anything, but it really depends how much you want to win, and in what settings (MTGO rooms, scheduled events, local card shops, at home vs. your friends, etc.)
I think the biggest problem is something you're already aware of: there are too many cooks in the kitchen here. Don't feel bad, because I see this issue with a lot of people's creations. They simply want to do too many different things when they should just focus on one or two.
Rather than focusing on "covering your weaknesses", you should really be focusing on your strengths. If you truly want to win, build around a solid gameplan, and don't be afraid of having weaknesses, every "healthy" deck has some.
There are some fundamentals to think about when building your deck, such as "what is my plan/how do I win?" It seems like you want to win with big, midrange-y creatures (Dogs, Rhino). That is fine, but your knowledge of the card pool in Pauper seems a bit limited (no offense). I think Perilous Myr and Penumbra Spider are your best creatures, since they provide some kind of value in addition to their bodies. In my opinion the rest of the creature base could be improved upon.
Some other issues with your deck are land count and your mana curve. I would not factor in Obelisk as a "land", because I think that kind of thinking is dangerous—It leads to not playing enough lands and playing too clunky of a deck. At the moment, Your land count is too low and your curve is not low enough (just my opinion). One strong element of Green is that they can play early mana accelerators to get to those bigger guys even faster, which also gives you some strong turn one plays.
I think the best way for me to help with this deck would be to talk to you personally and get an idea for your thought process with each of the card choices. If you'd like to do that, I'm available on MTGO, Skype or another chat service of your preference.
Thanks for asking for advice, that is already a good sign that you are a smart spellslinger.
Hi there, I'm pretty much in the same boat as Bedlight.
Been playing Standard format on paper for years but quit last year due to the price of playing the format, and now keen to get started on MTGO Pauper.
I've read the primers and watched a few vids, at this point I think I'm going to build a MBC to get my feet off the ground (full deck I think is less than 5 tix). Would I be welcome to join the clan to playtest/bounce ideas/get to know other players?
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Strands certainly won't be exciting vs Delver/Fissure, but its usefulness vs. Post is actually pretty swingy. It goes from meh to game-winning depending on the situation. Are you this concerned about Post because you think the matchup is an auto-loss no matter what, or because you feel Post is a high enough % of the meta to deter you?
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
I agree that there is less appeal from a sideboard haterade standpoint, but its midrange advantages don't really suffer. Those "banned deck" matchups weren't particularly insane, either. Just playing devil's advocate.
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
First of all, there is already a midrange deck in the format. It's called Affinity! The deck goes over the top of every aggro deck by playing 4/4s, drawing cards and playing removal. Against control decks, it assumes the beatdown role. Having a two-card combo to immediately win the game (Atog and Fling) is also quite nice.
When brewing up midrange, make sure you are doing enough to simply hose aggro. This means you want to go over the top of them with bigger creatures that stop them in their tracks. Don't get too caught up with playing small 1/1s and 2/2s.
Also, you can't try to beat everything! This is especially true against the current field. If you're going to build a midrange deck, do it so you can smash aggro and also disrupt one of the other archetypes (I would probably aim for combo). If you're in black, do this with hand disruption (you can also opt for land death because black has that too). If you're in red, go for the enchanted lands and the Karoos. Do what you can about Clodupost, but I would honestly just be okay dying to it and move on.
That's all I have to say at the moment. Hope this helps, and keep brewing (I know I will)!
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Thanks for posting a thread about this, and linking to my article! I'm really glad that you enjoy the deck. From what I've heard, the list actually placed at least once not long after I put out the videos of my Daily Event with it. I hope the name Golgari Monsters continues to stick, as it has been referred to that by some other writers.
At the moment I don't have many suggestions, though Trusted Forcemage is a card I've tried in similar builds. I would give her a shot before trying anything too drastic. Let me know if you continue to experiment with this strategy. Thanks again!
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Hey Rickster. I've been playing around with Shyft4/Jumper's lists and analyzing them with some players I definitely respect.
As far as Shyft's main, I'd remove Knight of Sursi for something better (my initial impression is Porcelain Legionnaire). Knight of Sursi seems too slow and not useful enough when there's already 16 better fliers in the deck.
Now for the Steppes...I can't stand them. They mess up otherwise good opening hands or slow down your War Falcons for apparently no reason. The deck's mana should be oriented for the early game rather than the late game IMO. So yeah, I would definitely cut some or all of those.
How do you like my Bird Keepers list?
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
That's me by the way! The videos for that DE should be up on mtgoacademy in a few days. Also, I did some playtesting with Chris' decklist and those are being posted to my youtube as we speak.
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
It depends, what list are you looking at?
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
http://www.mtgoacademy.com/dime-a-dozen-1-lucky-thirteen/
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/24446-The-Paupers-Guide-To-M13.html
War Falcon decks have been placing in the Dailies, and yes Attended Knight is a good fit in those decks. Some opponents will attempt/be able to remove your Falcon-supporting creatures with spot removal, but Attended Knight develops your board while also making that plan extremely less viable.
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Please let me know your results/findings, thanks.
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
62 cards is a problem. I've never played a 62 card deck, so I don't have the mathematical knowledge to back me up, but your list illustrates a bigger overall issue. That issue involves trimming what you have into a more focused and efficient deck concept (just my opinion).
You can win some casual games playing most anything, but it really depends how much you want to win, and in what settings (MTGO rooms, scheduled events, local card shops, at home vs. your friends, etc.)
I think the biggest problem is something you're already aware of: there are too many cooks in the kitchen here. Don't feel bad, because I see this issue with a lot of people's creations. They simply want to do too many different things when they should just focus on one or two.
Rather than focusing on "covering your weaknesses", you should really be focusing on your strengths. If you truly want to win, build around a solid gameplan, and don't be afraid of having weaknesses, every "healthy" deck has some.
There are some fundamentals to think about when building your deck, such as "what is my plan/how do I win?" It seems like you want to win with big, midrange-y creatures (Dogs, Rhino). That is fine, but your knowledge of the card pool in Pauper seems a bit limited (no offense). I think Perilous Myr and Penumbra Spider are your best creatures, since they provide some kind of value in addition to their bodies. In my opinion the rest of the creature base could be improved upon.
Some other issues with your deck are land count and your mana curve. I would not factor in Obelisk as a "land", because I think that kind of thinking is dangerous—It leads to not playing enough lands and playing too clunky of a deck. At the moment, Your land count is too low and your curve is not low enough (just my opinion). One strong element of Green is that they can play early mana accelerators to get to those bigger guys even faster, which also gives you some strong turn one plays.
I think the best way for me to help with this deck would be to talk to you personally and get an idea for your thought process with each of the card choices. If you'd like to do that, I'm available on MTGO, Skype or another chat service of your preference.
Thanks for asking for advice, that is already a good sign that you are a smart spellslinger.
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/
Pauper's Cage Podcast (Classic Pauper)—http://www.mtgcast.com/?cat=232
Cinemalarkey Podcast (Movie Reviews)—http://cinemalarkeycast.libsyn.com/