Rangers are hit or miss depending on what your matchup is and how much flipping that he does. Also, He can make your opponent limit or overextend trying to keep him from flipping or getting him to flip again. I run him as a 1 of simply because he is easily green suned out.
This is what I have been running lately with an amazing amount of success. I have only lost 1 Match at an FNM so far with it over the last couple weeks. Blows Delver builds of all kinds out of the water. Black White tokens doesn't do much post- sideboard. Mono-Black has nothing except hoping they drop an obliterator before you draw an answer for it. WolfRun is hit or miss; Whoever gets their ramp on faster wins.
The ability to green sun out a variety of answers when you need them most is just too good. Batterskull and metamorph can just make your opponents jaw drop.
Anyone considered running think twice over looter? I know it's one less body but it's instant speed with flashback giving multiple draws on your opponents end step.
ITop decking Champion of the Parish means that the cards that buff him have to come off the top of your deck too. He will grow by +1/+1 once every 3 turns. He will die before he can do anything relevant. Doomed Traveler turns into a Spirit token upon death. The opponent does not want to kill it. If he doesn't block it, it puts him on a clock. If he does block it, you get a creature with evasion (or two w/ Moorland Haunt), putting him in the same situation he was in before.
In the late game, Doomed Traveler carrying a Sword of War and Peace or Angelic Destiny needs to be killed. If he gets killed, you get another Sword wielder and your offense continues. If CotP dies, you're looking for another creature off the top of the deck.
In the early game, against non-DoJ decks (the kind that CotP is supposed to be best against), CotP still gets bounced by Illusions, losing any counters that you may have accumulated through the first few turns, effectively turning him into a Doomed Traveler without the Spirit upon death. RDW and Wolf Run have Galvanic Blast, which is pretty useless against Doomed Traveler. Illusions and RDW have Gut Shot. CotP is really not that great in the early game.
I'm surprised this discussion is about CotP vs Doomed Traveler. I think Doomed Traveler is the clear winner here. Even people who run CotP also run Doomed Traveler. I don't perceive 4x Doomed Traveler to be a flex spot, since he's clearly the best 1-drop in white. The question is Champion of the Parish vs Gideon's Lawkeeper and the 2-drop Leonins.
The problem here is that everyone runs 4 Doomed Travelers regardless of the rest of their deck and you cannot run 8 DT to replace the champ. The champ is competing for spots in the deck with cards like Lawkeeper, relic warder and your removal. Problem with warder is I hate dropping him for nothing except a 2/2 and then watch something else get o-ringed. I find him sitting in my hand more often then hitting life points on the field.
The Arbiter does nothing if there isn't a lot of WRR or Bant Pod in your Meta. The champ can form a clock early game. Any piece of removal that kills the cat also gets the champ if you don't drop two more 1 drops turn 2. The cat cannot even swing until turn 3. If your meta is full of control, run the champ. If your meta is full of WRR/pod, run the cat.
I've been trying a couple different builds, with and without champ, and also different numbers of 1 drops, ranging from 4-10.
I am currently trying 10 1-drops, 4 doom, 4 cotp and 2 lawkeepers. I also used to MD 2 relic-warder and 2 abolisher, but now I just run all 4 relic-warder in the SB, and 4 abolisher MB, mostly for cotp reasons. He gets big fairly quickly still even if you're playing against a deck with mass removal. He also eats removal fast, from the players that know how beefy he can get.
Pros
-1 drop
-aggressive
-forces removal or early chump blocking
Cons
-top decking (huge one)
Is it just a play style choice, or is our decks better with/without?
I built the deck awhile back with the COTP and ran him for a while. I tried the Leonin Arbiter/relic-warder mix for three weeks. Went undefeated one week and just horrible the other two weeks. I have fallen back on COTP again and went 3-1 at FNM last night, loosing only to an odd budget version of township tokens that maindecked 4 Timely reinforcements and 4 DoJ MB (Makes you want to pull your hair out). I feel with more 1 drops, I don't beg to topdeck mana as often. I have had the worst luck dropping my land every turn running the general 24 U/W lands for this deck.
I have found that Champ is the best bang for your buck in this deck where your not always gauranteed to hit 3-4 mana early game. I have lost more games in the build without COTP where I drop a doomed turn 1, HOTP turn 2, and sit at W and 1 mana for a couple turns because I couldn't topdeck another land. Your WW guys are nice but you cannot always play them.
I always drop the Champ and my doomed or lawkeepers. They get 4-5 damage in. So what if I loose them to a slagstorm. I now have a flying token, My Geist in hand is now free of worries when he hits the field. Your opponent realizes that they wasted the slag early. They know the parish will grow each turn so they are in a terrible situation either way. On the other hand, If you know a day is coming, you have to hope you have a leak ready.
4 COTP
4 Doomed Travelers
2 Lawkeepers
4 Grand Abolishers
2 Fiend Hunters
3 Giest of Saint Traft
4 Hero of Bladehold
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Honor of the pure
1 Oring
3 Mana Leak
1 Angelic Destiny
1 SoWaP
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell that has the same name as a card in your graveyard, you may put a quest counter on Pyromancer Ascension.
...so, countering isn't that effective. They still get their counters, and eventually, they get their copies. So, you'll have to find ways to reduce the number of counters on the Ascension, or prevent them by making sure there are no cards in their graveyard to trigger from.
Or you can try some leylines to make yourself untargetable.
My area has been filling up with Pyromancer Acension combo decks here in the last couple weeks. Everyone is getting the last uses out of their time warps before they cycle.
I am running UWR and I have played this deck several times and I feel like I shuffle my deck, let them cut, draw 7 cards, play a land for 2-3 turns then watch them play with their deck for 10 minutes until I get 7 lightning bolts to the face. All of the UW and UWR control I have seen locally have no chance against them. I understand there are simple ways to beat the deck. No Pyromancer ascension = no win. Every time I have tried beating this deck, even post sideboard boosting my count of counter from 4 manaleaks to 9 counterspell total (Sideboarding in 5 counterspells), I have no way of doing anything.
Can anyone with some experience shed some light on tips for effectively beating this combo deck?
It is awkward though. I opened two platinum angels back to back out of a fat pack. My luck isn't great enough for that to happen with two primeval titans.
I don't know how you have trouble with the aggresive decks that aren't Naya Vengevine. I wish I could play against Mythic all day, Blightnings and Specters are so good against them it's kind of a joke, and having Lightning Bolts, Gatekeepers, and Terminates in the deck only bury them more. RDW can be alittle worse presideboard, because Terminate is generally the only way to kill Devastating tokens.
All in Red-RDW is possibly the common grixis' decks worst nightmare. Nothing like someone Tapping 4 mountains, Sacrificing all 4, dropping the devastating summons, killing my blocker with a bolt or flame slash, then dropping a kicked goblin bushwacker and swinging for 12. Only after taking that turn 1 and possibly turn 2 goblin guide to the face. I don't have the firepower or mana base to do anything in that situation with Grixis. I can sit and wait with countersquall or negate in my hand and let it turn into an itchy trigger finger race but they have more removal and the ability to drop anything they want when I tap out. A mana barb completely ruins any chance of me making it through the onslaught.
I wish I had a decent choice for removing Artifacts and Enchantments without splashing green. And like all the Discussion, Into the Roil is only a one turn solution unless you can immediately blightning them for the hand removal.
I sideboarded the vapors in against both decks I lost to but never seen them once. I didn't see my bloodwitches againt the Bant either
I'm wondering if running Roiling Terrain over ruinblasters would help. At least running 2 rolling terrain in the sideboard in place of the goblins ruinblasters in the side for additional land destruction. It would be highly effective against mystic and somewhat decent against RDW as long as they have played a fetch land or two. If they have fired off the devastaving summons already, Rolling Terrain would be even more effective.
I tried Linkin parks build for grixis yesterday for Gameday and Managed to go 2-2 and pull 5th place. Before, I had a build similar to the Grixis Control that managed to grab 1st a couple weeks ago. My 1-2 loss to Mythic Conscription Bant and 1-2 loss to RDW with the Kiln Fiend/Devastating Summons combo.
I rolled the Mythic Bant deck first game without losing a single life point by killing all his ramp and spreading sea's all duel lands he played early on. Terminated the Baneslayer. Second and third game, His sideboard of probably 8 counterspells completely ate me alive.
The Red deck wins runs me over always it seems. I tap out early on to remove the threats I have, only to give up my only chance to counter the devastating summons. Followed by his sideboard mana barb which is just a bigger pain in my side. The game I won, He managed to get 3 mountains, and I got 3 spreading sea's:evillol:
The other game was a weird bant/polymorph mix:-/ and Allies. The Allies simply does not hold up to my removal. The other deck, I'm not sure of the deck at all, but it didn't hold up to terminates and cruel ultimatum.
It's nice to be on the forum finally. I have recently started playing again after a 7 year break. A friend and I bought some starter boxes at Wal-mart one night and I decided to take up the game again. I dug out my old boxes of cards and started buying packs again.
I am looking for some new cards to build up my elf and other decks. So please check out my trade thread.
1x Garruk Relentless
4x Llanowar Elf
4x Bird of Paradise
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Dungrove Elder
2x Thrun, The Last Troll
1x Daybreak Ranger
1x Acidic Slime
1x Bellowing Tanglewurm
3x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Batterskull
1x Mutagenic Growth
4x Green Sun's Zenith
24x Forest
3x Dismember
2x Corrosive Gale
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Glissa, the Traitor
1x Batterskull
1x Naturalize
2x Creeping Corrosion
2x Daybreak Ranger
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
This is what I have been running lately with an amazing amount of success. I have only lost 1 Match at an FNM so far with it over the last couple weeks. Blows Delver builds of all kinds out of the water. Black White tokens doesn't do much post- sideboard. Mono-Black has nothing except hoping they drop an obliterator before you draw an answer for it. WolfRun is hit or miss; Whoever gets their ramp on faster wins.
The ability to green sun out a variety of answers when you need them most is just too good. Batterskull and metamorph can just make your opponents jaw drop.
The problem here is that everyone runs 4 Doomed Travelers regardless of the rest of their deck and you cannot run 8 DT to replace the champ. The champ is competing for spots in the deck with cards like Lawkeeper, relic warder and your removal. Problem with warder is I hate dropping him for nothing except a 2/2 and then watch something else get o-ringed. I find him sitting in my hand more often then hitting life points on the field.
The Arbiter does nothing if there isn't a lot of WRR or Bant Pod in your Meta. The champ can form a clock early game. Any piece of removal that kills the cat also gets the champ if you don't drop two more 1 drops turn 2. The cat cannot even swing until turn 3. If your meta is full of control, run the champ. If your meta is full of WRR/pod, run the cat.
I built the deck awhile back with the COTP and ran him for a while. I tried the Leonin Arbiter/relic-warder mix for three weeks. Went undefeated one week and just horrible the other two weeks. I have fallen back on COTP again and went 3-1 at FNM last night, loosing only to an odd budget version of township tokens that maindecked 4 Timely reinforcements and 4 DoJ MB (Makes you want to pull your hair out). I feel with more 1 drops, I don't beg to topdeck mana as often. I have had the worst luck dropping my land every turn running the general 24 U/W lands for this deck.
I have found that Champ is the best bang for your buck in this deck where your not always gauranteed to hit 3-4 mana early game. I have lost more games in the build without COTP where I drop a doomed turn 1, HOTP turn 2, and sit at W and 1 mana for a couple turns because I couldn't topdeck another land. Your WW guys are nice but you cannot always play them.
I always drop the Champ and my doomed or lawkeepers. They get 4-5 damage in. So what if I loose them to a slagstorm. I now have a flying token, My Geist in hand is now free of worries when he hits the field. Your opponent realizes that they wasted the slag early. They know the parish will grow each turn so they are in a terrible situation either way. On the other hand, If you know a day is coming, you have to hope you have a leak ready.
4 COTP
4 Doomed Travelers
2 Lawkeepers
4 Grand Abolishers
2 Fiend Hunters
3 Giest of Saint Traft
4 Hero of Bladehold
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Honor of the pure
1 Oring
3 Mana Leak
1 Angelic Destiny
1 SoWaP
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Moorland Haunt
12 Plains
1 Island
Into the roil makes the leyline pretty worthless.
My area has been filling up with Pyromancer Acension combo decks here in the last couple weeks. Everyone is getting the last uses out of their time warps before they cycle.
I am running UWR and I have played this deck several times and I feel like I shuffle my deck, let them cut, draw 7 cards, play a land for 2-3 turns then watch them play with their deck for 10 minutes until I get 7 lightning bolts to the face. All of the UW and UWR control I have seen locally have no chance against them. I understand there are simple ways to beat the deck. No Pyromancer ascension = no win. Every time I have tried beating this deck, even post sideboard boosting my count of counter from 4 manaleaks to 9 counterspell total (Sideboarding in 5 counterspells), I have no way of doing anything.
Can anyone with some experience shed some light on tips for effectively beating this combo deck?
1 Jace Beleren
2 Gideon Jura
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Ajani Vengeant
4 Wall of Omen
2 Sun Titan
4 Day of Judgement
3 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Mana Leak
4 Spreading Seas
2 Scalding tarn
2 Mountain
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
4 Plains
3 Leyline of Sancity
3 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
1 Deprive
1 Jace Beleren
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to exile
All in Red-RDW is possibly the common grixis' decks worst nightmare. Nothing like someone Tapping 4 mountains, Sacrificing all 4, dropping the devastating summons, killing my blocker with a bolt or flame slash, then dropping a kicked goblin bushwacker and swinging for 12. Only after taking that turn 1 and possibly turn 2 goblin guide to the face. I don't have the firepower or mana base to do anything in that situation with Grixis. I can sit and wait with countersquall or negate in my hand and let it turn into an itchy trigger finger race but they have more removal and the ability to drop anything they want when I tap out. A mana barb completely ruins any chance of me making it through the onslaught.
I wish I had a decent choice for removing Artifacts and Enchantments without splashing green. And like all the Discussion, Into the Roil is only a one turn solution unless you can immediately blightning them for the hand removal.
I'm wondering if running Roiling Terrain over ruinblasters would help. At least running 2 rolling terrain in the sideboard in place of the goblins ruinblasters in the side for additional land destruction. It would be highly effective against mystic and somewhat decent against RDW as long as they have played a fetch land or two. If they have fired off the devastaving summons already, Rolling Terrain would be even more effective.
I rolled the Mythic Bant deck first game without losing a single life point by killing all his ramp and spreading sea's all duel lands he played early on. Terminated the Baneslayer. Second and third game, His sideboard of probably 8 counterspells completely ate me alive.
The Red deck wins runs me over always it seems. I tap out early on to remove the threats I have, only to give up my only chance to counter the devastating summons. Followed by his sideboard mana barb which is just a bigger pain in my side. The game I won, He managed to get 3 mountains, and I got 3 spreading sea's:evillol:
The other game was a weird bant/polymorph mix:-/ and Allies. The Allies simply does not hold up to my removal. The other deck, I'm not sure of the deck at all, but it didn't hold up to terminates and cruel ultimatum.
It's nice to be on the forum finally. I have recently started playing again after a 7 year break. A friend and I bought some starter boxes at Wal-mart one night and I decided to take up the game again. I dug out my old boxes of cards and started buying packs again.
I am looking for some new cards to build up my elf and other decks. So please check out my trade thread.
Thanks,
Preston