Turn 2 Smiter or GoST was easily the most powerful thing all day, and most decks just could not answer that. Rancor and Selesnya Charm were all stars in multiple matchups, allowing me to enchant and then exile creatures like Olivia Voldaren in the Jund match, or take out Griselbrand in the Frites match.
Cylonic Rift was not powerful at all in this aggro-based deck. It occasionally removed blockers, but for the most part, Feeling of Dread was more consistent and a much better draw.
I am almost 100% positive that Strangleroot Geist is a better card than Call of the Conclave in the current meta. It allows you the ability to trade with two zombies or one Geralf's Messenger in the Zombies match, is resistant to wrath effects, and is extremely aggressive in the durdles vs. durdles matchup. Obviously it is not strong against decks running Lingering Souls.
Many of the people said that I was extremely aggressive with my Selesnya Charms - I was making a 2/2 on turn 2 a lot of the time (if I didn't have a better play). I used all three modes on the day, +2/+2 being the least used, but it saved a GoST at least two times, and allowed me to block a Geist in the mirror with and Avacyn's Pilgrim and make him pay. How to use Selesnya Charm in what matchup is going to be extremely important in getting wins - I may have given up some game in my two loses because of improper charm usage.
Sideboard - Ray of Revelation should almost assuredly be Sundering Growth, as Rakdos Keyrune did give me issues in the Grixis Control matchup and I gave up game 2 because of that card.
I liked Rest in Peace against Frites and Seance, but the real powerhouse of my sideboard was Thalia. She does a great Time Walk impersonation in the control matchup, and makes it very hard for Frites to loot and set up their combo.
Rest in Peace, like a Tormod's Crypt, must be played at the right time in order to gain the most advantage. Purify the Grave, from my testing, did not do enough to stop the card advantage Frites was getting from its graveyard.
Rootborn Defenses singlehandedly won me at least 3 games after sideboard. It was stellar in combat, it was stellar against wrath effects, and overall, I liked the 3 copies I had.
Negate was probably the least used card on the day, and I played a large # of control matchups. I think that this could be a better used sideboard slot.
1. Can you describe your themed cube in 1-2 sentences? [...]You're creating a custom Limited environment, basically your own custom block, but what is the driving theme?
Sure! The "theme" if you want to call it that, is a Peasant cube developed hollistically - that is to say, where the sum of the total cube is greater than the value of the individual pieces. I want this cube to be a fun and balanced drafting experience that takes into account that every card has its purpose, great or small, and that not all uncommons can be Sol Ring.
2. What are your rules for card inclusion? No Elves? Only sorcery-speed removal? 50% of the cards must be artifacts? It's difficult for people to provide feedback if they don't know the rules you've set for yourself.
There are no rules for card inclusion, other than that some cards are too powerful for this cube, and shouldn't be included (aka Sol Ring and friends). You can see some power bans at the top of the thread.
My thoughts on inclusion for this cube are much looser than other Peasant builders. I have been considering cards like Impaler Shrike which I know most Peasant cubers would not even look at. The Guildmage cycle is another thing most Peasant cubes don't want, but its something that I really love because of the universal utility that these cards provide. Certainly not the most powerful effects at 2 mana for any of those colors, but still good enough, and they lead to a specific kind of drafting and draft experience.
I am trying to go about designing and developing this cube so that it provides a great draft experience that I can modify at will. And I don't feel that this format (Peasant Cube) should naturally be about the most powerful things you can do in Magic, because that's not the goal for Uncommons and Commons in a set.
The development of this cube is an ongoing process.
Cycles: I agree with Calibretto on this - I don't personally value cycles very much in cube, even a designed cube like this. Personally, I think that what people want are the tools to build a variety of archetypes. As long as those are provided, I don't think that maintaining a full cycle as published by WotC is necessary or even advantageous. My experience agrees with Calibretto again in that cycles are most often unbalanced - some cards are good and others aren't. Even in a designed cube, you still want the best card for a particular archetype which is at odds with maintaining a cycle.
I agree in principal that not all Cycles are good. But the development of cycles and their utilization is something that I am trying in this cube, and it will have to be a point that I respectfully disagree with you about.
The exception here for me is colour balancing. I see a lot of people build cubes with unbalanced colours, especially in the multi-colour section, and often unbalanced mana-fixing. This drives me nuts because I feel that drafters need to trust that the environment isn't skewed toward or away from any particular colour or colour combination. Even here, however, I don't see the need to slavishly include cycles. In my normal cube, I'm slowly altering the mana-fixing lands such that while there is a balance between the colour pairs (4 dual lands for each guild), the selection of lands don't have to follow a cycle - the key is to select the most appropriate dual lands for each colour pair. This hasn't been fully implemented, as yet, but it's where I'm heading.
Creature/Spell Balance: I think it's fine to have each colour have its own creature/spell ratio. Wizards does this anyway - MaRo talks about it in some of his "Nuts & Bolts" articles. My normal cube has way over-compensated in Green (42 creatures vs. 18 spells) but as long as it's fun and each card brings something to the table, I think it's valid. In a designed cube, I wouldn't lean quite so extreme, however. I think 40/60 and 60/40 is a fine split to target.
I am still thinking about color, spell, and creature balance. I like the ideas of creature spell split, but as I have been developing, I've broken down the strict lines and made things a little more varied. I'm open to thoughts in this area.
Ins:
Propaganda and Ghostly Prison are inclusions this time around as a measure to give control decks legs against aggro and aggro/midrange decks that are doing extremely well in the cube right now. Traditional control decks are currently a bit hard to draft, so hopefully these will be tools to keep aggro at bay. Likewise, Ray of Command is an extremely powerful card that has been on my on-deck list. I just now was able to acquire a copy.
Lightning Greaves is a strict upgrade to Gorgon Flail, which wasn't making bacon. The card is great at making attacking and blocking unprofitable, but most of the time, creatures are trading, unlike rare cube, where deathtouch is a much better mechanic.
The Predator's Strike removal isn't necessarily finalized yet, but I love Consume Strength effects, and one in plain Green is super fun. We'll see how this works out.
Most of the changes are to help control, but one big concession control made this round of changes is the loss of Ponder. My cube already has Brainstorm, Impulse, and Preordain, and I honestly don't think that Blue should have a high amount of this kind of library manipulation. Four spells was a bit too high - I think three is enough (or maybe even too many...).
Miraculous Recovery and Nezumi Cutthroat are an effort to give reanimation a bigger role to play in archetype construction, but both are just stellar cards regardless.
The guildmage cycle is still proving its worth.
EDIT: I haven't updated the master list, but I will do so tomorrow.
Has anyone tried out Spell Crumple from the Commander sets? For larger lists it seems better than Cancel, but not sure it makes the cut at 3-CMC when it has to compete with Forbid in smaller lists.
Old wine isn't necessarily better - when it gets old enough, the stuff turns to vinegar.
Wine only turns to vinegar if it is oxidized by acetic acid bacteria - a good wine can theoretically be stored for an indefinite period. The issues with storage come from cork rot and other contaminants, which in this case, could be circumvented for a much longer time, since a cork can't rot nearly as quickly in salt water.
The aging process itself will definitely change the wine over time - the subtle flavors, the character, and the body of the wine will all change with age, and these can cloy or decay substantially if the grape crop was substandard or if the winemaking process was contaminated in some way.
The older a wine gets, generally speaking, the better it gets. To find a 170+ year-old champagne (one of the trickiest wines to bottle, especially with the technology of the period) is a extreme rarity. Winemasters and Gourmands around the world would pay these ridiculous prices because it's a chance to taste something that no one else has ever tasted, and an experience unlike anything else on Earth. To some, that would definitely be worth $39,000 a bottle.
Obviously I am not one to judge since I have paid hundreds of dollars for pieces of cardboard.
This is a pretty obvious change, which should bring my Green creature curve down a bit. Still looking at other 4s which I can convert into 3s. Looking to bring in a Viridian Shaman as well, suggestions are appreciated.
Viridian Claw --> Mortarpod
Claw has been pretty good in the aggro vs. aggro matchups, but Mortarpod gives you a nice pinger that can close out games as well as perform creature control, and Claw wasn't thrilling, just a solid 24th card. I think Mortarpod is definitely better than that.
Beastbreaker is great - he's always been exactly what Green wants in my cube, so I think that's a great change. I've been looking to cut Leatherback Baloth in my own cube, so I might give Imperious Perfect a try, since I've seen it in your list and other lists.
Speaking of Imperious Perfect, is there a reason why you are running Uktabi Orangutan over Viridian Shaman? It seems like a perfect synergy to me that is a direct upgrade over what you are running now, as long as you don't oppose the tribal theme.
@All viewers: All of my colors have been sorted by CMC. I haven't sorted artifacts.
@calibretto: A limited bombs cube isn't my goal. Just think of my cube as a Peasant cube with guildmages, and maybe it will go down easier? For now, they aren't getting cut because each of them has utility in specific decks and even though some guildmages individually aren't as powerful as other options, the group as a whole is still strong enough to positively add to the cube.
And isn't that I'm actively trying to make a weaker cube - I am making a different cube. The guildmage cycle is only about 2.5% of the total number of cards in the cube, and most have merit. Azorius, Boros, Dimir, and Selesnya all provide powerful effects that are fairly costed. Orzhov and Gruul can both act as game-ending fireball effects, and Rakdos is aggressive and can generate creatures for the R/B deck. Golgari can permanently pump creatures and regrow creatures (at a high cost), but that's also a fairly strong to have on a 2/2 creature. The weakest two are Simic and Izzet, and even they have places in specific decks (U/W control with aura removal and UR Kiln Fiend/Chandra's Spitfire.dec both come to mind). It's just a matter of different perspective.
@All Viewers: Stepping back from the Guildmages for a second, I think that my Green section could use a little balance. It seems as though I have a few too many 4-drops and not enough 3-drops. Kozilek's Predator is an easy cut, but what are some good 3-mana creatures that I could put in?
@calibretto: I appreciate advice about which cards particular cube players dislike and like because that gives me ideas as to what my cube in particular can offer to drafters, but our thoughts on the purpose of cube do not align; your cube design philosophy is to create a set where the most powerful interactions can occur in a fun way. While I appreciate that, and endorse it for my regular cube, it isn't the design objective for this cube.
As to your ideas regarding cycles - I understand your point, and it comes directly from your design philosophy, but I don't necessarily agree. A cycle has intrinsic merit because it provides drafters with an understandable pattern, among other positive points, and breaking a cycle can also have deleterious consequences. While I appreciate the ability for the cube to be a high-powered wildcard format, I am attempting to move beyond just powerful individual cards and look at set design in a more holistic way.
Certainly my opinions are subject to change - my experimentation with the Ravnica guildmage cycle is a very literal expression of my desire to try card cycles as a prominent part of cube design; so far, just to let you know of personal experiences of friends and strangers playing my cube, that they have enjoyed the cycle presence in the cube, even if some of the cards (i.e. Simic Guildmage) are not as powerful as other choices in the same color pairs.
I like your point about cube identity, which is something I am focusing on quite a bit right now in my ideas of what cube creation is about. I know that there are multiple wonderful lists (yours and klug's are both quite good) to work off of if you want to have a powerful, fun cube. These cubes are not my cube, however, and I think that a creative identity is an important part of cube design, even if it is often a mostly unstated point.
As far as why I put my cube on MTGS - well, aside from archival purposes, the main reason why I posted the list is so that people could see it and talk about it, including friends that have drafted it or who have worked on it with me before and have not seen the full list. I fully appreciate any advice or commentary, and also fully expect it, but I hold the editor's pen, so to speak.
I agree that the Guildmages are not the most powerful effects that the colors they are in can ultimately provide, but I also don't believe that the most powerful effect automatically makes the best cube. So far they have been a largely positive addition to my cube, and I will continue to test them as a fixture of my Gold section (even if they limit my options for Gold cards somewhat).
Thanks for your thoughts for my Gold section. As for your suggestions to cut the Guildmage cycle, well, I already said that I wasn't looking for a blanket list of cuts and changes. I am not necessarily looking to make my U/C cube the same as the stereotypical U/C cube you might find on MTGS, and I prefer that.
I will write up a reason for why I like the Guildmages at some future time, but for now, the quick notes are that they support a more aggressive multicolor that still can be used by either composite color, have utility, and provide a quality size for the cost. Their utility is obviously not as great as other individual spells, but something I am exploring now in my cube design is whether or not cycles have a place in cube design. Please see my second post for more things I am considering.
I do admit that there are some Gold cards that really do need an update (Vedalkin Outlander being a great example, still looking for a Kiss of the Amesha to replace it with) So I appreciate the suggestions.
As for the CMC sorting, I will do that when I get a chance.
I am interested in all of the common Phyrexian mana creatures (yes even the Black one) although I am only certain that Porcelain Legionnaire is absolutely making it in as of right now.
While I am always looking to improve my list, I am not looking for blanket recommendations on card switches like I have seen in other cube commentary. Instead, I would prefer a discussion individual cards. I know that my list is different from other lists, and I don't believe that a perfect cube list exists; that is why it is my cube, and why I have made some of the choices I have made.
More importantly than single card discussion, these are the topics I'm considering right now in cube design. Your opinions are appreciated:
---
1. What is the role of ramp in Peasant Cube? Should it be a supported archetype, and if so, what amount of slots in a ~400 card cube should be devoted to that archetype?
2. Same question as #1, but this time for reanimator decks - is this viable in Peasant?
3. Do cycles have intrinsic value as part of cube design? (For example, please see multicolored - yes, I do have every single guildmage)
4. Do Blue and Green require a different number of creatures/non-creatures as part of their color identity? Is a completely balanced cube in regards to creatures and non-creatures better/worse/indifferent than the configuration of the cube I have now (Blue is 40% Creatures/60% Non-Creatures, and Green is the reverse, 60% Creatures/40% Non-Creatures).
5. Is change in cube card configuration/list only a tool to increase the power/accommodate new sets/etc in a current design, or is change in card configuration/list in itself a healthy process for cube design that increases fun for players?
Hey everyone! I have been lurking around the Cube forums for a while now, especially klug's list for Uncommon/Common cubes, and I am a huge fan of cube drafting. I have a regular cube which is more of a group project, but I have designed and tested this cube as a solo venture, so I decided here would be a good place to discuss it.
My apologies for the card tagging - I used the [CARDS*] tag, and it sees the asterisks as part of the card name.
Basic Cube Information: Cards = 392, 50 of each color, 50 multicolored, 40 artifacts, 52 lands ,* = Foil or Painted, && = textless Theme: Commons and Uncommons Cube
Cards in this cube must have been printed as a common or uncommon
Rares that were once uncommons are legal, all forms of the card are allowed Snow: No Ante, etc.: No "Un": Yes, 2 cards, AWOL, Carnivorous Death Parrot Proxies: Yes, but unwanted Powered: Impossible Banned Cards for Power-Level: Library of Alexandria, Sol Ring, Skullclamp Banned Cards for Time Constraint: No Banned Cards for Fun Factor: None so far, but fun is the main reason for the existence of this cube, so it is the primary objective of cube design; there are no sacred cows. Balanced CMC: No Average Number of Players: 2-man Cascade/Winston, 4 man 4x11 booster Draft Frequency: varies
I took this list to a 6-2, 10th place finish in Ohio.
2 Gavony Township
4 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Sunpetal Grove
6 Forest
//Creatures
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Centaur Healer
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Restoration Angel
3 Thragtusk
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Rancor
3 Feeling of Dread
3 Selesnya Charm
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Rootborn Defenses
1 Selsenya Charm
1 Thragtusk
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Negate
2 Ray of Revelation
3 Rest in Peace
Some notes from the event:
I didn't play Zombies at all throughout the event, instead playing:
1. UWr Control
2. Bant Aggro
3. Grixis Control
4. Frites
5. Bant Ramp (loss)
6. Jund Midrange
7. Seance (loss)
8. Jund Midrange
Turn 2 Smiter or GoST was easily the most powerful thing all day, and most decks just could not answer that. Rancor and Selesnya Charm were all stars in multiple matchups, allowing me to enchant and then exile creatures like Olivia Voldaren in the Jund match, or take out Griselbrand in the Frites match.
Cylonic Rift was not powerful at all in this aggro-based deck. It occasionally removed blockers, but for the most part, Feeling of Dread was more consistent and a much better draw.
I am almost 100% positive that Strangleroot Geist is a better card than Call of the Conclave in the current meta. It allows you the ability to trade with two zombies or one Geralf's Messenger in the Zombies match, is resistant to wrath effects, and is extremely aggressive in the durdles vs. durdles matchup. Obviously it is not strong against decks running Lingering Souls.
Many of the people said that I was extremely aggressive with my Selesnya Charms - I was making a 2/2 on turn 2 a lot of the time (if I didn't have a better play). I used all three modes on the day, +2/+2 being the least used, but it saved a GoST at least two times, and allowed me to block a Geist in the mirror with and Avacyn's Pilgrim and make him pay. How to use Selesnya Charm in what matchup is going to be extremely important in getting wins - I may have given up some game in my two loses because of improper charm usage.
Sideboard - Ray of Revelation should almost assuredly be Sundering Growth, as Rakdos Keyrune did give me issues in the Grixis Control matchup and I gave up game 2 because of that card.
I liked Rest in Peace against Frites and Seance, but the real powerhouse of my sideboard was Thalia. She does a great Time Walk impersonation in the control matchup, and makes it very hard for Frites to loot and set up their combo.
Rest in Peace, like a Tormod's Crypt, must be played at the right time in order to gain the most advantage. Purify the Grave, from my testing, did not do enough to stop the card advantage Frites was getting from its graveyard.
Rootborn Defenses singlehandedly won me at least 3 games after sideboard. It was stellar in combat, it was stellar against wrath effects, and overall, I liked the 3 copies I had.
Negate was probably the least used card on the day, and I played a large # of control matchups. I think that this could be a better used sideboard slot.
Hey Amadeus! It's been a long time. Sorry for the delayed response.
Sure! The "theme" if you want to call it that, is a Peasant cube developed hollistically - that is to say, where the sum of the total cube is greater than the value of the individual pieces. I want this cube to be a fun and balanced drafting experience that takes into account that every card has its purpose, great or small, and that not all uncommons can be Sol Ring.
There are no rules for card inclusion, other than that some cards are too powerful for this cube, and shouldn't be included (aka Sol Ring and friends). You can see some power bans at the top of the thread.
My thoughts on inclusion for this cube are much looser than other Peasant builders. I have been considering cards like Impaler Shrike which I know most Peasant cubers would not even look at. The Guildmage cycle is another thing most Peasant cubes don't want, but its something that I really love because of the universal utility that these cards provide. Certainly not the most powerful effects at 2 mana for any of those colors, but still good enough, and they lead to a specific kind of drafting and draft experience.
I am trying to go about designing and developing this cube so that it provides a great draft experience that I can modify at will. And I don't feel that this format (Peasant Cube) should naturally be about the most powerful things you can do in Magic, because that's not the goal for Uncommons and Commons in a set.
The development of this cube is an ongoing process.
I agree in principal that not all Cycles are good. But the development of cycles and their utilization is something that I am trying in this cube, and it will have to be a point that I respectfully disagree with you about.
I am still thinking about color, spell, and creature balance. I like the ideas of creature spell split, but as I have been developing, I've broken down the strict lines and made things a little more varied. I'm open to thoughts in this area.
6/7/2011 Vedalken Outlander --> Kiss of the Amesha
6/7/2011 Sigiled Paladin --> Porcelain Legionnaire
6/7/2011 Predator's Stike --> Leeching Bite*
10/7/2011 Surrakar Marauder --> Nezumi Graverobber
10/7/2011 Arrest --> Ghostly Prison
10/7/2011 Condemn --> Miraculous Recovery
10/7/2011 Forked Bolt --> Breath of Darigaaz
10/7/2011 Viashino Fangtail --> Furnace Whelp
10/7/2011 Stonecloaker --> Mother of Runes
10/7/2011 Cancel --> Spell Crumple
10/7/2011 Ponder --> Propaganda
10/7/2011 Think Twice --> Ray of Command
10/7/2011 Noggle Bandit --> Nucklavee
10/7/2011 Gwyllion Hedge-Mage --> Mortify
10/7/2011 Hag Hedge-Mage --> Necrogenesis
10/7/2011 Gorgon Flail --> Lightning Greaves
Ins:
Propaganda and Ghostly Prison are inclusions this time around as a measure to give control decks legs against aggro and aggro/midrange decks that are doing extremely well in the cube right now. Traditional control decks are currently a bit hard to draft, so hopefully these will be tools to keep aggro at bay. Likewise, Ray of Command is an extremely powerful card that has been on my on-deck list. I just now was able to acquire a copy.
Lightning Greaves is a strict upgrade to Gorgon Flail, which wasn't making bacon. The card is great at making attacking and blocking unprofitable, but most of the time, creatures are trading, unlike rare cube, where deathtouch is a much better mechanic.
The Predator's Strike removal isn't necessarily finalized yet, but I love Consume Strength effects, and one in plain Green is super fun. We'll see how this works out.
Most of the changes are to help control, but one big concession control made this round of changes is the loss of Ponder. My cube already has Brainstorm, Impulse, and Preordain, and I honestly don't think that Blue should have a high amount of this kind of library manipulation. Four spells was a bit too high - I think three is enough (or maybe even too many...).
Miraculous Recovery and Nezumi Cutthroat are an effort to give reanimation a bigger role to play in archetype construction, but both are just stellar cards regardless.
The guildmage cycle is still proving its worth.
EDIT: I haven't updated the master list, but I will do so tomorrow.
Wine only turns to vinegar if it is oxidized by acetic acid bacteria - a good wine can theoretically be stored for an indefinite period. The issues with storage come from cork rot and other contaminants, which in this case, could be circumvented for a much longer time, since a cork can't rot nearly as quickly in salt water.
The aging process itself will definitely change the wine over time - the subtle flavors, the character, and the body of the wine will all change with age, and these can cloy or decay substantially if the grape crop was substandard or if the winemaking process was contaminated in some way.
Obviously I am not one to judge since I have paid hundreds of dollars for pieces of cardboard.
Kozilek's Predator --> Imperious Perfect
This is a pretty obvious change, which should bring my Green creature curve down a bit. Still looking at other 4s which I can convert into 3s. Looking to bring in a Viridian Shaman as well, suggestions are appreciated.
Viridian Claw --> Mortarpod
Claw has been pretty good in the aggro vs. aggro matchups, but Mortarpod gives you a nice pinger that can close out games as well as perform creature control, and Claw wasn't thrilling, just a solid 24th card. I think Mortarpod is definitely better than that.
Speaking of Imperious Perfect, is there a reason why you are running Uktabi Orangutan over Viridian Shaman? It seems like a perfect synergy to me that is a direct upgrade over what you are running now, as long as you don't oppose the tribal theme.
@calibretto: A limited bombs cube isn't my goal. Just think of my cube as a Peasant cube with guildmages, and maybe it will go down easier? For now, they aren't getting cut because each of them has utility in specific decks and even though some guildmages individually aren't as powerful as other options, the group as a whole is still strong enough to positively add to the cube.
And isn't that I'm actively trying to make a weaker cube - I am making a different cube. The guildmage cycle is only about 2.5% of the total number of cards in the cube, and most have merit. Azorius, Boros, Dimir, and Selesnya all provide powerful effects that are fairly costed. Orzhov and Gruul can both act as game-ending fireball effects, and Rakdos is aggressive and can generate creatures for the R/B deck. Golgari can permanently pump creatures and regrow creatures (at a high cost), but that's also a fairly strong to have on a 2/2 creature. The weakest two are Simic and Izzet, and even they have places in specific decks (U/W control with aura removal and UR Kiln Fiend/Chandra's Spitfire.dec both come to mind). It's just a matter of different perspective.
@All Viewers: Stepping back from the Guildmages for a second, I think that my Green section could use a little balance. It seems as though I have a few too many 4-drops and not enough 3-drops. Kozilek's Predator is an easy cut, but what are some good 3-mana creatures that I could put in?
As to your ideas regarding cycles - I understand your point, and it comes directly from your design philosophy, but I don't necessarily agree. A cycle has intrinsic merit because it provides drafters with an understandable pattern, among other positive points, and breaking a cycle can also have deleterious consequences. While I appreciate the ability for the cube to be a high-powered wildcard format, I am attempting to move beyond just powerful individual cards and look at set design in a more holistic way.
Certainly my opinions are subject to change - my experimentation with the Ravnica guildmage cycle is a very literal expression of my desire to try card cycles as a prominent part of cube design; so far, just to let you know of personal experiences of friends and strangers playing my cube, that they have enjoyed the cycle presence in the cube, even if some of the cards (i.e. Simic Guildmage) are not as powerful as other choices in the same color pairs.
I like your point about cube identity, which is something I am focusing on quite a bit right now in my ideas of what cube creation is about. I know that there are multiple wonderful lists (yours and klug's are both quite good) to work off of if you want to have a powerful, fun cube. These cubes are not my cube, however, and I think that a creative identity is an important part of cube design, even if it is often a mostly unstated point.
As far as why I put my cube on MTGS - well, aside from archival purposes, the main reason why I posted the list is so that people could see it and talk about it, including friends that have drafted it or who have worked on it with me before and have not seen the full list. I fully appreciate any advice or commentary, and also fully expect it, but I hold the editor's pen, so to speak.
I agree that the Guildmages are not the most powerful effects that the colors they are in can ultimately provide, but I also don't believe that the most powerful effect automatically makes the best cube. So far they have been a largely positive addition to my cube, and I will continue to test them as a fixture of my Gold section (even if they limit my options for Gold cards somewhat).
Thanks for your thoughts for my Gold section. As for your suggestions to cut the Guildmage cycle, well, I already said that I wasn't looking for a blanket list of cuts and changes. I am not necessarily looking to make my U/C cube the same as the stereotypical U/C cube you might find on MTGS, and I prefer that.
I will write up a reason for why I like the Guildmages at some future time, but for now, the quick notes are that they support a more aggressive multicolor that still can be used by either composite color, have utility, and provide a quality size for the cost. Their utility is obviously not as great as other individual spells, but something I am exploring now in my cube design is whether or not cycles have a place in cube design. Please see my second post for more things I am considering.
I do admit that there are some Gold cards that really do need an update (Vedalkin Outlander being a great example, still looking for a Kiss of the Amesha to replace it with) So I appreciate the suggestions.
As for the CMC sorting, I will do that when I get a chance.
(+) Will add this to the cube once I get a copy.
(~) This is a card that I will consider testing to see if it is any good.
(+) Porcelain Legionaire
(+) Beast Within
(+) Dismember
(~) Wing Splicer
(~) Master Splicer
(~) Deceiver Exarch
(~) Brutalizer Exarch
(~) Entomber Exarch
(~) Act of Aggression
I am interested in all of the common Phyrexian mana creatures (yes even the Black one) although I am only certain that Porcelain Legionnaire is absolutely making it in as of right now.
17/1/2011 - (IN)Hag Hedge-Mage - (OUT)Shambling Shell
17/1/2011 - (IN)Duergar Hedge-Mage - (OUT)Squee's Embrace
19/1/2011 - (IN)Albino Troll - (OUT)Cloudcrown Oak
19/1/2011 - (IN)Pouncing Jaguar - (OUT)Timbermaw Larva
23/1/2011 - (IN)Bloodthrone Vampire - (OUT)Nantuko Husk
23/1/2011 - (IN)Pulse Tracker - (OUT)Innocent Blood
23/1/2011 - (IN)Mesmeric Fiend - (OUT)Reassembling Skeleton
23/1/2011 - (IN)Guul Draz Vampire - (OUT)Tendrils of Corruption
23/1/2011 - (IN)Black Knight - (OUT)Terror
23/1/2011 - (IN)Surrakar Marauder - (OUT)Sudden Death
23/1/2011 - (IN)Wing Shards - (OUT)Devouring Light
23/1/2011 - (IN)Kazandu Blademaster - (OUT)Judge Unworthy
23/1/2011 - (IN)Blade of the Sixth Pride - (OUT)Dawn Charm
23/1/2011 - (IN)Changeling Hero - (OUT)Celestial Purge
23/1/2011 - (IN)Sigiled Paladin - (OUT)Cessation
23/1/2011 - (IN)Manic Vandal - (OUT)Magma Spray
23/1/2011 - (IN)Pelakka Wurm - (OUT)Jungle Weaver
23/1/2011 - (IN)Bellowing Tanglewurm - (OUT)Entangling Vines
23/1/2011 - (IN)Riftwing Cloudskate - (OUT)Into the Roil
26/1/2011 - (IN)Hedge Troll (Move to Green) - (OUT)Giant Dustwasp
26/1/2011 - (IN)Selesnya Guildmage - (OUT)Hedge Troll (Moved to Green)
26/1/2011 - (IN)Azorius Guildmage - (OUT)Silver Drake
26/1/2011 - (IN)Boros Guildmage - (OUT)Goblin Legionaire
26/1/2011 - (IN)Dimir Guildmage - (OUT)Cavern Harpy
26/1/2011 - (IN)Pillage - (OUT)Seal of Fire
26/1/2011 - (IN)Gruul Guildmage - (OUT)Horned Kavu
27/1/2011 - (IN)Ashenmoor Gouger - (OUT)Lava Zombie
27/1/2011 - (IN)Orzhov Guildmage - (OUT)Blind Hunter
27/1/2011 - (IN)Rakdos Guildmage - (OUT)Kulrath Knight
27/1/2011 - (IN)Izzet Guildmage - (OUT)Noggle Bridgebreaker
27/1/2011 - (IN)Golgari Guildmage - (OUT)Cankerous Thirst
27/1/2011 - (IN)Simic Guildmage - (OUT)Gaea's Skyfolk
27/1/2011 - (IN)NOTHING - (OUT)Tinder Farm
27/1/2011 - (IN)NOTHING - (OUT)Irrigation Ditch
27/1/2011 - (IN)NOTHING - (OUT)Geothermal Crevice
27/1/2011 - (IN)NOTHING - (OUT)Sulfur Vent
27/1/2011 - (IN)NOTHING - (OUT)Ancient Spring
27/1/2011 - (IN)Joraga Treespeaker - (OUT)Citanul Woodreaders
29/1/2011 - (IN)Lead the Stampede - (OUT)Gift of the Gargantuan
29/1/2011 - (IN)Keldon Champion - Apparently missing a Red card
29/1/2011 - (IN)Goblin Wardriver - (OUT)Brimstone Mage
29/1/2011 - (IN)Accorder Paladin - (OUT)Blade of the Sixth Pride
29/1/2011 - (IN)Go For the Throat - (OUT)Eyeblight's Ending
29/1/2011 - (IN)Barter in Blood - (OUT)Rend Flesh
29/1/2011 - (IN)Boar Umbra - (OUT)Aggressive Urge
29/1/2011 - (IN)Rupture Spire* - (OUT)NOTHING
29/1/2011 - (IN)Zoetic Cavern* - (OUT)NOTHING
29/1/2011 - (IN)Trygon Predator - (OUT)Assault Zeppelid
29/1/2011 - (IN)Su-Chi - (OUT)NOTHING
29/1/2011 - (IN)Juggernaut - (OUT)NOTHING
29/1/2011 - (IN)Mask of Memory - (OUT)NOTHING
29/1/2011 - (IN)Veridian Claw - (OUT)NOTHING
29/1/2011 - (IN)Psychatog - (OUT)Wasp Lancer
29/1/2011 - (IN)Tidehollow Sculler - (OUT)Unmake
1/2/2011 - (IN)Guardian of the Guildpact - (OUT)Kabira Vendicator
2/2/2011 - (IN)Skeletal Scrying - (OUT)Sign in Blood
2/2/2011 - (IN)Cancel - (OUT)NOTHING
2/2/2011 - (IN)Firemaw Kavu - (OUT)NOTHING
2/2/2011 - (IN)Werebear - (OUT)NOTHING
2/2/2011 - (IN)Hyena Umbra - (OUT)NOTHING
2/2/2011 - (IN)Oubeliette - (OUT)NOTHING
14/2/2011 - (IN)Krosan Tusker - (OUT)Borderland Ranger
14/2/2011 - (IN)Hungry Sprigan - (OUT)Karstoderm
14/2/2011 - (IN)Centaur Glade - (OUT)Hidden Spider
14/2/2011 - (IN)Icy Manipulator - (OUT)NOTHING
14/2/2011 - (IN)Ribbons of Night - (OUT)Ichor Slick
31/3/2011 - (IN)Briarhorn - (OUT)Sporoloth Ancient
31/3/2011 - (IN)Soul Manipulation - (OUT)Recoil
31/3/2011 - (IN)Bull Cerodon - (OUT)Skyknight Legionnaire
30/4/2011 - (IN)Aethertow - (OUT)Deft Dualist
30/4/2011 - (IN)Serum Raker - (OUT)Wall of Frost
30/4/2011 - (IN)Gorgon Flail - (OUT)Barbed Battlegear
30/4/2011 - (IN)Pierce Strider - (OUT)Prophetic Prism
30/4/2011 - (IN)Marsh Flitter - (OUT)Skinrender
30/4/2011 - (IN)Gruesome Encore - (OUT)Last Gasp
30/4/2011 - (IN)Soltari Trooper - (OUT)Amrou Seeker
30/4/2011 - (IN)Guul Draz Vampire - (OUT)Carnophage
3/5/2011 - (IN)Stone Rain - (OUT)Lash Out
15/5/2011 - Imperious Perfect for Kozilek's Predator
15/5/2011 - Mortarpod for Viridian Claw
While I am always looking to improve my list, I am not looking for blanket recommendations on card switches like I have seen in other cube commentary. Instead, I would prefer a discussion individual cards. I know that my list is different from other lists, and I don't believe that a perfect cube list exists; that is why it is my cube, and why I have made some of the choices I have made.
More importantly than single card discussion, these are the topics I'm considering right now in cube design. Your opinions are appreciated:
---
1. What is the role of ramp in Peasant Cube? Should it be a supported archetype, and if so, what amount of slots in a ~400 card cube should be devoted to that archetype?
2. Same question as #1, but this time for reanimator decks - is this viable in Peasant?
3. Do cycles have intrinsic value as part of cube design? (For example, please see multicolored - yes, I do have every single guildmage)
4. Do Blue and Green require a different number of creatures/non-creatures as part of their color identity? Is a completely balanced cube in regards to creatures and non-creatures better/worse/indifferent than the configuration of the cube I have now (Blue is 40% Creatures/60% Non-Creatures, and Green is the reverse, 60% Creatures/40% Non-Creatures).
5. Is change in cube card configuration/list only a tool to increase the power/accommodate new sets/etc in a current design, or is change in card configuration/list in itself a healthy process for cube design that increases fun for players?
My apologies for the card tagging - I used the [CARDS*] tag, and it sees the asterisks as part of the card name.
Basic Cube Information:
Cards = 392, 50 of each color, 50 multicolored, 40 artifacts, 52 lands ,* = Foil or Painted, && = textless
Theme: Commons and Uncommons Cube
Cards in this cube must have been printed as a common or uncommon
Rares that were once uncommons are legal, all forms of the card are allowed
Snow: No
Ante, etc.: No
"Un": Yes, 2 cards, AWOL, Carnivorous Death Parrot
Proxies: Yes, but unwanted
Powered: Impossible
Banned Cards for Power-Level: Library of Alexandria, Sol Ring, Skullclamp
Banned Cards for Time Constraint: No
Banned Cards for Fun Factor: None so far, but fun is the main reason for the existence of this cube, so it is the primary objective of cube design; there are no sacred cows.
Balanced CMC: No
Average Number of Players: 2-man Cascade/Winston, 4 man 4x11 booster
Draft Frequency: varies
White Creatures:
1 Akrasan Squire
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Goldmeadow Harrier
1 Loam Lion
1 Steppe Lynx
Two-CMC
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Knight of the Holy Nimbus*
1 Kor Firewalker*
1 Sigiled Paladin
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Kor Skyfisher*
1 Wall of Omens*
1 War Priest of Thune
1 White Knight
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Ballynock Cohort
1 Descendant of Kiyomaro*
1 Kitsune Blademaster
1 Kor Hookmaster
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Stonecloaker
Four-CMC
1 Calciderm*
1 Glimmerpoint Stag
1 Guardian of the Guildpact*
1 Castle Raptors
1 Changeling Hero*
1 Serra Angel*
White Non-Creatures:
1 Condemn
1 Harm's Way*
1 Path to Exile*
1 Sunlance
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Hyena Umbra*
Two-CMC
1 Disenchant
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Momentary Blink*
1 Pacifism
1 Temporal Isolation
1 Arrest
1 AWOL*
1 Griffin Guide
1 Oblivion Ring*
1 Recumbent Bliss
1 Repel the Darkness*
1 Spectral Procession
1 Wing Shards
1 Armored Ascension*
1 Faith's Fetters
Five-CMC
1 Arrow Volley Trap*
Blue Creatures:
1 Enclave Cryptologist*
Two-CMC
1 Carnivorous Death-Parrot
1 Errant Ephemeron
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Welkin Tern
Three-CMC
1 Aether Adept
1 Kathari Screecher*
1 Man-o'-War*
1 Pestermite
1 Shaper Parasite
1 Spiketail Drakeling
1 Scroll Thief
1 Tideforce Elemental
1 Crookclaw Transmuter
1 Fencer Clique
1 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Serum Raker*
Five-CMC
1 Air Elemental*
1 Mulldrifter*
1 Riftwing Cloudskate*
1 Aethersnipe
Blue Non-Creatures:
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder*
1 Preordain
Two-CMC
1 Counterspell*
1 Daze
1 Impulse*
1 Jilt
1 Mana Leak
1 Narcolepsy
1 Negate*
1 Remand*
1 Remove Soul
1 Think Twice
1 Cancel*
1 Capsize
1 Compulsive Research
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Frozen Solid*
Four-CMC
1 Careful Consideration
1 Dismiss
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Foresee
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Rewind
1 Sleep
1 Force of Will
1 Gush
1 Honden of Seeing Winds
1 Jace's Ingenuity*
1 Mind Control*
Black Creatures:
1 Carnophage
1 Fume Spitter
1 Pulse Tracker
1 Vampire Lacerator
Two-CMC
1 Augur of Skulls
1 Bloodthrone Vampire
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Dauthi Slayer
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Order of the Ebon Hand
1 Sickle Ripper
1 Surrakar Marauder
1 Withered Wretch
1 Crypt Rats
1 Dauthi Marauder
1 Dread Warlock*
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Liliana's Specter*
1 Necrogen Scudder
1 Nirkana Cutthroat
1 Phyrexian Rager*
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Faceless Butcher*
1 Marsh Flitter*
1 Viscera Dragger*
Five-CMC
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Shriekmaw
Six-CMC
1 Twisted Abomination*
Black Non-Creatures:
1 Duress
1 Quest for the Gravelord
1 Unearth
Two-CMC
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Go For The Throat
1 Grim Harvest*
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Last Gasp
1 Nameless Inversion
1 Smallpox
1 Smother
1 Hideous End
1 Infest*
1 Oubliette
1 Rend Flesh
Four-CMC
1 Evincar's Justice
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Pestilence
1 Ribbons of Night*
Other-CMC
1 Skeletal Scrying*
Red Creatures:
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Jackal Pup*
1 Kird Ape*
Two-CMC
1 Drooling Ogre
1 Ember Hauler
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Keldon Marauders*
1 Kiln Fiend
1 Plated Geopede
1 Chandra's Spitfire
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Ghitu Slinger
1 Hellfire Mongrel
1 Hissing Iguanar
1 Inner-Flame Acolyte
1 Manic Vandal
1 Ronin Houndmaster
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Bladetusk Boar*
1 Dragon Whelp*
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Keldon Champion
1 Viashino Fangtail
Five-CMC
1 Anarchist
1 Gathan Raiders
Six-CMC
1 Firemaw Kavu*
Red Non-Creatures:
1 Burst Lightning
1 Chain Lightning
1 Firebolt
1 Forked Bolt
1 Lightning Bolt*
1 Reckless Charge
Two-CMC
1 Arc Trail*
1 Incinerate
1 Pyroclasm
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Arc Lightning
1 Stone Rain
1 Pillage
1 Puncture Blast
1 Rift Bolt
1 Staggershock*
1 Volcanic Fallout
Four-CMC
1 Burn Trail
1 Dead//Gone
1 Cone of Fire
Six-CMC
1 Fireblast
Other-CMC
1 Disintegrate
1 Fireball*
1 Rolling Thunder
Green Creatures
1 Ghazban Ogre
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves*
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Wild Nacatl
Two-CMC
1 Albino Troll
1 Beastbreaker of Bala Ged
1 Dryad Sophisticate*
1 Garruk's Companion
1 Nest Invader
1 River Boa
1 Silhana Ledgewalker
1 Thornweald Archer
1 Wall of Roots*
1 Werebear*
1 Wild Mongrel*
1 Eternal Witness*
1 Hedge Troll*
1 Imperious Perfect
1 Leatherback Baloth*
1 Yavimaya Elder
Four-CMC
1 Blastoderm
1 Briarhorn*
1 Cudgel Troll*
1 Karstoderm*
1 Penumbra Spider
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Acidic Slime*
1 Bellowing Tanglewurm
Seven-CMC
1 Krosan Tusker*
1 Pelakka Wurm
Green Non-Creatures:
1 Rancor
Two-CMC
1 Earthbrawn
1 Edge of Autumn
1 Lignify*
1 Naturalize*
1 Predator's Strike
1 Sprout Swarm*
1 Utopia Vow*
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Boar Umbra
1 Harrow
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Lead the Stampede
1 Moldervine Cloak
1 Squall
1 Harmonize
Five-CMC
1 Bestial Menace
1 Centaur Glade*
1 Overrun*
Gold Cards (Ordered by Color Pair):
Artifacts:
Lands: