"Red Deck Wins" still, well, wins from time to time, it's still fairly difficult to answers. Other decks will dominate it from time to time, but you can't beat it for ease of use and price (still a fairly cheap deck, only about $100, an it's an X/1 or X/0 Deck at FNM)
RB and even UB Zombies is also fairly competitive. You could also play UB Mill. These are also fairly cheap if you need to fill in cards.
If you're looking for budget, look at your land base and work from there. You might have more Blue, Black, and Red cards, but you might have the land for something else entirely, and Land is where the majority of cost is (that's why a deck like Red Deck Wins is so cheap, it's just a bunch of mountains)
My area is high on the competitive players. So RDW doesn't cut it.
I probably have the cards to build R/B or U/B zombies but I just need to find an updated deck thread on it.
My land base is in Blue, Black, and Red. That is what I meant by most of my cards are in those colors.
I'm looking at half budget. I don't want to spend cash on cards. I draft alot so I have valuable cards its just the extreme chase rares/mythics are hard to trade for because people just don't have them.
Chase mythics being Falkrath Aristocrat, thundermaw helkites, thragtusks, snapcasters.
Everytime I try to build a blue deck its just so useless with snapcasters unlessy its just minor splashing it like with U/B zombies.
Heh, I've been tryign to trade for falkenwrath aristocrats since September but can't get, Even the stores are short on stock most of the time.
RB zombies is...really friggin' good. Like, I may rebuild it after selling it away, good. It's an aggro deck with the options and staying power of a midrange deck. Dos Rakis is pretty good, but I wouldn't take it to a PTQ or SCG Open with the expectation of winning it. I've won FNMs with both decks quite a few times.
You're pretty much outta luck for UB, Grixis, and RU though. I haven't seen anything interesting at all there. It may get better post-rotation, when Geist, Tusk, and some other W and G bombs rotate out. Or it may get worse.
Have you got a link to the R/B zombies? I looked but I can't find a link on this site and google just brings up website strores for magic cards.
And most of what I find is from December - pre dragonmaze.
I want to build a Red/Black &/or blue deck because I like those colors and thats where majority of my cards are.
Is there a deck that can be built using Red, Black, or Blue in any combination?
I'm looking at the decks and the power level of cards and it certainly seems that if your not using White or Green then your at a loss. Rakdos deck or RDW doesn't even seem very good.
I found most people who have good decks go 3 color. Combinations being alternate guild combos according to the packs. - pick 2 colors in gatecrash and an allied guild in ravnica.
In order to go 2 colors successfully you can't get cut at all! And so easy to splash a 3rd color for whatever bombish card or removal you could grab.
if you do go aggro with 2 drop creatures makes sure you have some ways to pump them. Usually some creature enchants or equipment. Otherwise you stall out when they drop big stuff.
I've been drafting white/red/blue almost exclusively since draft started. I've been doing pretty well. I do get cut sometimes then I don't win, and sometimes i just get mana screwed with the best deck.
I would go White/Red/Black but its so friggen popular it gets cut hard every draft. And I'd have to open some good stuff in dragonmaze booster to go into black. But i've been opening such crap for dragonmaze its getting ridiculous.
I've opened Gaze of Granite 4 times in 10 drafts. ....I've also opened 3 reckoners though.
And i'm sorry but graze of granite is not enough to make me go golgari colors in pack one, especially when there is something like a turn/burn or some other awesome uncommon.
There is a big reason you can get alot of boros cards and that is because gatecrash packs were/are stupidly broken. Borus colors are so deep that when it was tripple gatecrash FOUR people at a table could force boros and 1st or 2nd place would be be a boros player. Not all 4 decks were great, depends on the seating.
In this format though if the guy passing to you is in boros then you probably won't get enough good cards to mono it. This happend to me twice - first draft guy was going mono boros and cut me and he won. 2nd draft I was passing to him and then I won. Reason is that you are cutting cards in 1st and 3rd packs while he is cutting you in 2nd pack gatecrash which is so deep you can't get cut.
Its easiest to go mono boros with the format now but I've seen people pull off mono gruel.
I find black gets cut alot. Not rakdos exactly but just black because its so easy to splash. So yet again dimir is screwed....
I think the best chance for delver is the dimir build you mentioned in the first post.
And every R/U deck needs four of turn // burn. It just does sooo much.
Instead of delver there are a bunch of other cards you can run. Judge's Familiar Stromkirk noble, Heck, even wingcrafter sounds pretty good if you can soul bond it with Nivmagus - more reliable then delver. And you can bond it with that 1/4 dude to give him flying.
Edit: lol, I think wingcrafter is the one.
1st turn you play either nivmagus or wingcrafter.
2nd turn you cast Hidden strings and cipher it, untap you mana cast either the nivmagus or wingcrafter and swing in!!!! And you still have mana open for a dispel.
3rd turn: you just keep your mana open for lockdown.
Its still very vulnerable to a supreme verdict. And once that hits the board your down 4 cards same as basic agro.
I worked the numbers and you can do lethal damage by turn 4. But that is ONLY if you get Nivmagus.
Deadbridge Goliath is a card that wants to be loved but other cards are just better.
Best combo I see is a 1 drop mana dork, then lightning mauler, then turn 3 hasty deadbridge goliath. Turn 4, throw a rancor on it.
Then you leave your 4 mana open. Then they use spot removal on it and you cast the Advent of the Worm.
Then its your turn, untap, scavenge, swing in for the win - hopefully.
Of course that is prefect curve.
Its a good card for some fun standard but it doesn't make the cut for extreme competitive.
RWx has definitely stood out to me, to the point where I tend to ease myself into a shard involving it almost effortlessly thanks to the powerful commons and uncommons the colours have access to.
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A guy who I draft with regularly figured this out pretty quick that RWx is very strong. First DGM draft he passed over a gideon for a boros charm. He won the draft. But he didn't face the guy who grabbed the gideon.
It made me mad because he was sitting to my right and I wanted to go Red/White but all the good cards were being snatched up. But 4 days later he was sitting to my left and I cut him and so I won.
I doubt this was an actual pack because of how many strong cards there are.
Helix is one of the strongest cards in this set so you take that card everytime.
Heh, also every dragonmaze pack has guaranteed 5 dead cards at the end. Gatecrash has about 5-8 dead cards and RTR has about 3-5 dead cards.
Otherwise I would pick the U/W rare. Mainly because the rest of the cards in the pack are going to make everyone at the table go red, black, white (one of the strongest color combos)
I don't really understand what this golgari deck that dumps your cards into your graveyard is actually supposed to accomplish. The only advantages of this plan are:
*Scavenge (massively overcosted)
*Regrowth-type effects (few in quantity, inefficient, and also overcosted)
I also has the fantastic side effect of making Dimir's job much easier.
This isn't like Innistrad block where milling yourself gives you virtual card advantage a la flashback spells. What this block is missing is really good Gravedigger-type creatures or cards like Footbottom Feast that would make this plan accomplish something.
A totally agree its not like the flashback innistrad stuff. Milling for flashback is pretty good.
But this scavenge mill is still pseudo card advantage. You do get some scavenge cards in the graveyard, you get targets for the damage spell and you get to dig for your bomb with the return creature to hand spell.
And it doesn't make dimir's job easier. I've won a total of ONE game using dimir mill. I've won FNM with dimir but its always because of evasion damage or the guildmage mill damage - which is big because dimir usually gets to late game and you have over 7 mana to activate both guildmage abilities.
And against a mill deck you throw in an extra 5 lands and the the filth card actually kills more than a 1/1 creature.
Either way during draft sometimes you just get cut and you can't go aggro so what are you going to do to? This is a backup.
There are also some dragon maze rares you could open or even get passed that would let you go /start this route.
I find it depends on your curve. Like others have said if your agro then probably not so good. And it lets you fix.
I also found that I can run 16 land and a cluestone so its a midway to make sure you don't get screwed or flooded.
And its kind of annoying in the lategame when your opponent sacs the keyrune to draw a card.
I think the OP has a bit of an archtype that is more than just golgari.
Golgari in RTR was that you only wanted scavange in your graveyard. With morgue burst you get value out of the non scavenge cards.
I've played 3 drafts so fare and I think the OP misused the term 'wheel' when it comes to Morgue Burst and Drown in Filth. Dragonmaze is a small set so these two cards just pop up more. Is the guy next to you going to pick a good 2 drop creature or removal that can be splashed over these two commons that require an archetype? I think not.
Drown in filth is crappy removal. If your running 20 lands, milling 4 cards will give you 2 lands. And that's a maybe. At best you hope you always get 1 land.
Anyway, this is an archtype that is worth watching out for I guess if you open the right cards. But this format is still looking pretty fast because of broken boros gatecrash. So who knows.
From the cards themselves I think RWB is the most powerful. Obviously red is very powerful with access to direct burn, traitorous instinct, and other spells that just 'get there'.
White has very powerful cards in all 3 sets. Black has removal but also the orzoph cards. Extort is just so good and lifelink lets you take beats all day long.
Because extort and lifelink is so good and black has removal it gets overdrafted. Black especially.
At a sealed event I went RWU and went 4-1. Azorious has that WU common creatures 2/2 with flash, return creature you control to hand. Its sooo good. So nice to be able to just cast that in response to any kill spell my opponent does. Or attack into opponent and if he does an unfavorable block I get to save my guy. Blue also has access to dispel and mizzium skin(hexproof) which is great for enchanting guys and all around protecting.
Overall i find boros just as powerful as it was before. This is still because of the brokenness that is gatecrash. And there is that common 1/4 creature for 3 mana in dragonmaze that taps creatures when he attacks.
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My area is high on the competitive players. So RDW doesn't cut it.
I probably have the cards to build R/B or U/B zombies but I just need to find an updated deck thread on it.
My land base is in Blue, Black, and Red. That is what I meant by most of my cards are in those colors.
I'm looking at half budget. I don't want to spend cash on cards. I draft alot so I have valuable cards its just the extreme chase rares/mythics are hard to trade for because people just don't have them.
Chase mythics being Falkrath Aristocrat, thundermaw helkites, thragtusks, snapcasters.
Everytime I try to build a blue deck its just so useless with snapcasters unlessy its just minor splashing it like with U/B zombies.
Heh, I've been tryign to trade for falkenwrath aristocrats since September but can't get, Even the stores are short on stock most of the time.
Have you got a link to the R/B zombies? I looked but I can't find a link on this site and google just brings up website strores for magic cards.
And most of what I find is from December - pre dragonmaze.
I want to build a Red/Black &/or blue deck because I like those colors and thats where majority of my cards are.
I'm looking at the decks and the power level of cards and it certainly seems that if your not using White or Green then your at a loss. Rakdos deck or RDW doesn't even seem very good.
In order to go 2 colors successfully you can't get cut at all! And so easy to splash a 3rd color for whatever bombish card or removal you could grab.
if you do go aggro with 2 drop creatures makes sure you have some ways to pump them. Usually some creature enchants or equipment. Otherwise you stall out when they drop big stuff.
I've been drafting white/red/blue almost exclusively since draft started. I've been doing pretty well. I do get cut sometimes then I don't win, and sometimes i just get mana screwed with the best deck.
I would go White/Red/Black but its so friggen popular it gets cut hard every draft. And I'd have to open some good stuff in dragonmaze booster to go into black. But i've been opening such crap for dragonmaze its getting ridiculous.
I've opened Gaze of Granite 4 times in 10 drafts. ....I've also opened 3 reckoners though.
And i'm sorry but graze of granite is not enough to make me go golgari colors in pack one, especially when there is something like a turn/burn or some other awesome uncommon.
In this format though if the guy passing to you is in boros then you probably won't get enough good cards to mono it. This happend to me twice - first draft guy was going mono boros and cut me and he won. 2nd draft I was passing to him and then I won. Reason is that you are cutting cards in 1st and 3rd packs while he is cutting you in 2nd pack gatecrash which is so deep you can't get cut.
Its easiest to go mono boros with the format now but I've seen people pull off mono gruel.
I find black gets cut alot. Not rakdos exactly but just black because its so easy to splash. So yet again dimir is screwed....
And every R/U deck needs four of turn // burn. It just does sooo much.
Instead of delver there are a bunch of other cards you can run. Judge's Familiar Stromkirk noble, Heck, even wingcrafter sounds pretty good if you can soul bond it with Nivmagus - more reliable then delver. And you can bond it with that 1/4 dude to give him flying.
Edit: lol, I think wingcrafter is the one.
1st turn you play either nivmagus or wingcrafter.
2nd turn you cast Hidden strings and cipher it, untap you mana cast either the nivmagus or wingcrafter and swing in!!!! And you still have mana open for a dispel.
3rd turn: you just keep your mana open for lockdown.
Its still very vulnerable to a supreme verdict. And once that hits the board your down 4 cards same as basic agro.
I worked the numbers and you can do lethal damage by turn 4. But that is ONLY if you get Nivmagus.
Best combo I see is a 1 drop mana dork, then lightning mauler, then turn 3 hasty deadbridge goliath. Turn 4, throw a rancor on it.
Then you leave your 4 mana open. Then they use spot removal on it and you cast the Advent of the Worm.
Then its your turn, untap, scavenge, swing in for the win - hopefully.
Of course that is prefect curve.
Its a good card for some fun standard but it doesn't make the cut for extreme competitive.
Perhaps. But I still want feedback and discussion on how best to use this card in standard.
My main question is does the Turn spell shut down abilities like thragtusk leaving the battlefield or the wurm guy plopping down three 5/5's?
I'm looking for a card to put into my izzet deck and I hope this one is it.
A guy who I draft with regularly figured this out pretty quick that RWx is very strong. First DGM draft he passed over a gideon for a boros charm. He won the draft. But he didn't face the guy who grabbed the gideon.
It made me mad because he was sitting to my right and I wanted to go Red/White but all the good cards were being snatched up. But 4 days later he was sitting to my left and I cut him and so I won.
Helix is one of the strongest cards in this set so you take that card everytime.
Heh, also every dragonmaze pack has guaranteed 5 dead cards at the end. Gatecrash has about 5-8 dead cards and RTR has about 3-5 dead cards.
Otherwise I would pick the U/W rare. Mainly because the rest of the cards in the pack are going to make everyone at the table go red, black, white (one of the strongest color combos)
A totally agree its not like the flashback innistrad stuff. Milling for flashback is pretty good.
But this scavenge mill is still pseudo card advantage. You do get some scavenge cards in the graveyard, you get targets for the damage spell and you get to dig for your bomb with the return creature to hand spell.
And it doesn't make dimir's job easier. I've won a total of ONE game using dimir mill. I've won FNM with dimir but its always because of evasion damage or the guildmage mill damage - which is big because dimir usually gets to late game and you have over 7 mana to activate both guildmage abilities.
And against a mill deck you throw in an extra 5 lands and the the filth card actually kills more than a 1/1 creature.
Either way during draft sometimes you just get cut and you can't go aggro so what are you going to do to? This is a backup.
There are also some dragon maze rares you could open or even get passed that would let you go /start this route.
I also found that I can run 16 land and a cluestone so its a midway to make sure you don't get screwed or flooded.
And its kind of annoying in the lategame when your opponent sacs the keyrune to draw a card.
Golgari in RTR was that you only wanted scavange in your graveyard. With morgue burst you get value out of the non scavenge cards.
I've played 3 drafts so fare and I think the OP misused the term 'wheel' when it comes to Morgue Burst and Drown in Filth. Dragonmaze is a small set so these two cards just pop up more. Is the guy next to you going to pick a good 2 drop creature or removal that can be splashed over these two commons that require an archetype? I think not.
Drown in filth is crappy removal. If your running 20 lands, milling 4 cards will give you 2 lands. And that's a maybe. At best you hope you always get 1 land.
Anyway, this is an archtype that is worth watching out for I guess if you open the right cards. But this format is still looking pretty fast because of broken boros gatecrash. So who knows.
White has very powerful cards in all 3 sets. Black has removal but also the orzoph cards. Extort is just so good and lifelink lets you take beats all day long.
Because extort and lifelink is so good and black has removal it gets overdrafted. Black especially.
At a sealed event I went RWU and went 4-1. Azorious has that WU common creatures 2/2 with flash, return creature you control to hand. Its sooo good. So nice to be able to just cast that in response to any kill spell my opponent does. Or attack into opponent and if he does an unfavorable block I get to save my guy. Blue also has access to dispel and mizzium skin(hexproof) which is great for enchanting guys and all around protecting.
Overall i find boros just as powerful as it was before. This is still because of the brokenness that is gatecrash. And there is that common 1/4 creature for 3 mana in dragonmaze that taps creatures when he attacks.