Yeah, I have been playing with a list similiar to this, no mind stones-kitchen finks.
Not so sure about the Range of Eos sideboard plan though.
It seems that there are two main UW lark decks. One with the more aggro package knight of the white orchid and figure of destiny along with borderposts. While the other type takes advantage of meddling mage and ponder.
What do you guys think of figure of destiny in the maindeck? The mana is manageable for it to function well. It definitely helps with the faerie matchup. But I'm not sure if I like it too much in the Jund and 5 color cascade Matchups.
What do you guys think about having 2x Faerie Conclave replacing 2 islands? I have been testing and having that 1 or 2 man land has saved my arse a few games. Throw it down first turn and its just another island other then anthemancer which is a problem but thought I would throw this out and get your guys thoughts.
It probably wouldn't hurt too much, at the number of two. But it would just make the curve really awkward along with the borderpost. I haven't found a manland necessary.
I really don't think that's very relevant. I'd rather play the creature that is immune to black removal (read: Maelstrom Pulse) and can beat for more than 1.
I'm talking strictly in the RB Matchup. Paladin is probably much better against Jund and 5 CB
My friend plays UW Lark, and I think the deck is fine post SB. (I run Jund Charms main)
Anathemancer is usually great against them, of course, and our removal suite can deal with everything nicely.
If we side in Snakeform, it is even better.
Tough MU to be sure, but nothing unbeatable. Thought hemorrhage does just fine there as well.
En-Vec seems like a pain, but Treetops can stop it nicely. Infest as well.
This deck doesn't have inherent advatages against the strategy that lark plays. The creatures that UW lark have just fly over FTW when the time is right. Thought hemorrhage is great in the SB.
How do you figure? The 2/2 that doesn't die to ANY of their removal or the 1/1 that dies to their black removal and also only one-shots anything else?
That boarding strategy sounds pretty good.
It'll stop the bleeding a lot faster as it can block turn one figure and turn 3 ram gang (on the draw). And that's all you really need it to do, since the finisher is usually a lark or two on the board. BFT can die to terror, but I would expect them to side it out.
I've played Faeries for a long time, and know very well how to beat it. I sided out the Mulldrifters and brought in Paladin en-Vecs and just stayed aggressive. Sower of Temptation is key to the match-up, as are the pro-black guys (Stillmoon Cavalier is also very good in the SB).
By a mile. Paladin en-Vec is great vs Faeries and basically unkillable vs the popular Jund and 5CB decks. It's really not even close.
The matchup still sounds pretty harsh. I mean no way lark will be favorable post sideboard. How many Muse's did you use against them?
BFT seems like it would be better in the RB matchups.
The Grixis guy I should have beaten, but he had MD Banefire and solid draws in the third game. The Swans player beat me because I attacked with a Meddling Mage when he had an out to Pithing Needle on his manland, so that's my fault. I lost to the same GW Elves guy in Top 8 because he actually saw his Cloudthreshers that time.
All in all, great showing for the deck. My article this Thursday will also be about this deck. I'll talk about possible changes and such there.
What multiple creatures did you kill with it?
And I am not threatened by PW's enough to feel like MDing the card.
I just played a game (UW control) where the opponent got double elspeth out (dropped a second right after I killed his first) and I had no issue dispatching them both with the cards in my maindeck.
What did you kill the elspeth with? UW control may suck as an archetype...
Maelstrom pulse is good at handling BW and GW tokens. If not acting as a board sweeper, it can get rid of pesky anthems to lay way for our real sweepers. This way in different MUs it has different purposes, stronger or weaker. It's nearly never dead. Therefore, it would most likely be better than a board sweeper across the board.
I'm glad someone agrees that the blighting matchup is pretty challenging.
Esper lark on the other hand im not 100% sure if i agree with, but i run4xjund charm main deck, as well as 2 primal commands. Which i would say at least help with that matchup.
I would say that the graveyard removal helps, but I don't think it counteracts every other asset to their card advantage. The MU isn't impossible, it's just generally bad as they have blue and disruption.
Wow...a generic question that has never been asked before.
I should just scream at you to read the thread and find out, but I'm bored at work so...
This deck scoops to 5cc. You can try to MD Banefire and Resounding Thunder but that makes your aggro matchup much worse. Be ready to SB those Mind Shatters and Thoughtseizes.
This deck has a decent (winnable) matchup against Fae if Volcanic Fallout is MD. Likewise the matchup is decent against Lark if you have Jund Charm MD (and gets better with Thought Hemorrhage now).
The deck beats aggro pretty hard if you have the right build with 5-6 sweepers, this includes kithkin aggro. The deck also slams RDW with the life game, and has a good game against Blightning providing you know how to play decently.
No idea against B/W tokens, I've never played it.
Most builds don't scoop to 5 CC. Assmuning that both players know what they're doing, sure 5 CC has the favorable MU but not by much.
This deck doesn't beat boat brew as often as I would like it to, but generally yes. That and BW tokens are the hardest aggro decks to beat, but still pretty good MUs. This deck is pretty miserable against esper lark though, of course.
I still find blightning to be a pretty bad MU. They have so many things going for them, blightning itself is pretty devastating. Unless we draw multiple kitchen finks or an early primal command, it seems pretty grim. Landing broodmate Dragon should finish the game in 2 turns at most generally.
Well, I tried that strategy for testing, and it works amazing.
Ricocheting, burn/removal spells, like incinerate, javelin, terminate is killing 2 creatures on his side or player damage... sounds good to me
But especially vs blightnings & thought hemorrhage
Sure Blightning hurts quite a bit. Hellspark Elemental is about the worst card they could draw against you, it will usually get through for 6 damage if you don't draw finks or perhaps colossus.
It really depends on your build when fighting blightning decks. I mean if you have no other options, go for it. I'm sure a wildricochet is better than Banefire and Volcanic Fallout in that matchup. But there are always better optiions.
Heh, so to summarize, it comes down to draws? Welcome to Magic! Haha.
I always board out Cloudthresher against RDW and Blightning. Blightning doesn't stand much of a chance. The only way they can really beat us is if they have a really good draw. An average Blightning/RDW draw does not beat an average Jund Ramp Draw.
Broodmate Dragon is ridiculous here, stopping nearly all of their threats dead in their tracks AND being a clock. Not to mention, Colossus is really good too, only dying to Flame Javelin or a sacced Fanatic with Incinerate. And that's good for you if they do that.
And if it's a version running redcap or Siege-gang, your sweepers get so much better.
The only real card I worry about when I'm playing those two decks are Blightning, and Demigod if they even run it. Raking Caonpy deals with Demigod if they do, and if you're really worried about Blightning, then run Wilt-Leaf Liege in the side. Though you can just discard bad cards against them, like excess land or thresher...which not only hurts us, but is too expensive to really help all that much.
All of that is without Finks or Primal. After sideboard (besides the aforementioned), we can lower our curve to fight even better.
Of course all of magic comes down to draws.
And no their average draws beats ours.
Blightning and RB beatdown (no blightning) do not have enough discard to force a weak sideboard card like wilt-leaf liege.
Hellspark elemental is pretty good against us.
Blightning thrives against a deck that does practically nothing in the first two turns. If we draw into kitchen finks and primals to keep us alive, then we are going to. That is our simple and logical game plan. Colossus and broodmate dragon are good if you are alive, as putting an unstoppable clock up is good. But that is if you are still alive. Colossus is pretty good at blocking as well.
I guess it's because I play against builds that have removed their 5 drops for lower drops/more burn.
The situation you mention sounds like goldfishing. I have never had any issue with RDW or blightning...
Most of our decks play Finks, and for good reason. And the cards you listed would deal 12 damage (assuming the unlikely event a demigod goes unanswered), not 15-17.
If the first creature you drop is demigod, it is getting Terminated. The deck can afford to hold back because it packs answers.
Also, we can flash Cloudthresher out at the same time you can cast Demigod...
The first two turns of this deck are like a car slowly rolling down a hill (the setup), after that we are going full speed, usually faster than other decks.
We can stabilize...most builds play Primal Command and Warhammer MD as well.
If you play Jund ramp generally your matchup isn't that hot against blightning. You have to draw kitchen finks/shriekmaw and primal command to beat most of their draws. This also depends on how many volcanicfallout/cloudthresher you run.
I wouldn't play shrouded fertile because the garruk ability overrules treetop beatdown/protection from CC and LD. Possibly over rampant growth though.
I think both lists could benefit from 2-4 copies of either banefire or resounding thunder. The second one needs it a bit more because no ajani.
I'm not too sure about lavalanche. It just seems like banefire/resoundingthuner could be better as a finisher. Even though lavalanche can act as a wrath at high mana. Why take cloudthresher out for lavalance? These new cards are giving struggles for our deck's for such tight slots.
Yeah, I have been playing with a list similiar to this, no mind stones-kitchen finks.
Not so sure about the Range of Eos sideboard plan though.
It seems that there are two main UW lark decks. One with the more aggro package knight of the white orchid and figure of destiny along with borderposts. While the other type takes advantage of meddling mage and ponder.
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It probably wouldn't hurt too much, at the number of two. But it would just make the curve really awkward along with the borderpost. I haven't found a manland necessary.
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I'm talking strictly in the RB Matchup. Paladin is probably much better against Jund and 5 CB
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That boarding strategy sounds pretty good.
It'll stop the bleeding a lot faster as it can block turn one figure and turn 3 ram gang (on the draw). And that's all you really need it to do, since the finisher is usually a lark or two on the board. BFT can die to terror, but I would expect them to side it out.
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The matchup still sounds pretty harsh. I mean no way lark will be favorable post sideboard. How many Muse's did you use against them?
BFT seems like it would be better in the RB matchups.
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How did you beat Faeries twice?
Is Paladin En-Vec really better than BFT?
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What did you kill the elspeth with? UW control may suck as an archetype...
Maelstrom pulse is good at handling BW and GW tokens. If not acting as a board sweeper, it can get rid of pesky anthems to lay way for our real sweepers. This way in different MUs it has different purposes, stronger or weaker. It's nearly never dead. Therefore, it would most likely be better than a board sweeper across the board.
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I would say that the graveyard removal helps, but I don't think it counteracts every other asset to their card advantage. The MU isn't impossible, it's just generally bad as they have blue and disruption.
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Most builds don't scoop to 5 CC. Assmuning that both players know what they're doing, sure 5 CC has the favorable MU but not by much.
This deck doesn't beat boat brew as often as I would like it to, but generally yes. That and BW tokens are the hardest aggro decks to beat, but still pretty good MUs. This deck is pretty miserable against esper lark though, of course.
I still find blightning to be a pretty bad MU. They have so many things going for them, blightning itself is pretty devastating. Unless we draw multiple kitchen finks or an early primal command, it seems pretty grim. Landing broodmate Dragon should finish the game in 2 turns at most generally.
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Sure Blightning hurts quite a bit. Hellspark Elemental is about the worst card they could draw against you, it will usually get through for 6 damage if you don't draw finks or perhaps colossus.
It really depends on your build when fighting blightning decks. I mean if you have no other options, go for it. I'm sure a wildricochet is better than Banefire and Volcanic Fallout in that matchup. But there are always better optiions.
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Of course all of magic comes down to draws.
And no their average draws beats ours.
Blightning and RB beatdown (no blightning) do not have enough discard to force a weak sideboard card like wilt-leaf liege.
Hellspark elemental is pretty good against us.
Blightning thrives against a deck that does practically nothing in the first two turns. If we draw into kitchen finks and primals to keep us alive, then we are going to. That is our simple and logical game plan. Colossus and broodmate dragon are good if you are alive, as putting an unstoppable clock up is good. But that is if you are still alive. Colossus is pretty good at blocking as well.
I guess it's because I play against builds that have removed their 5 drops for lower drops/more burn.
The MU is not that much in our favor.
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If you play Jund ramp generally your matchup isn't that hot against blightning. You have to draw kitchen finks/shriekmaw and primal command to beat most of their draws. This also depends on how many volcanicfallout/cloudthresher you run.
I wouldn't play shrouded fertile because the garruk ability overrules treetop beatdown/protection from CC and LD. Possibly over rampant growth though.
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I think both lists could benefit from 2-4 copies of either banefire or resounding thunder. The second one needs it a bit more because no ajani.
I'm not too sure about lavalanche. It just seems like banefire/resoundingthuner could be better as a finisher. Even though lavalanche can act as a wrath at high mana. Why take cloudthresher out for lavalance? These new cards are giving struggles for our deck's for such tight slots.
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