Your list is good, however it needs more breaking // entering.
In standard right now the only tool that's good enough to fit into the modern mill build is breaking // entering. It's damn mana Efficient and the red side of the card is a great alternate win condition, especially if you are accelerating mana. if you cast it early then follow right up with consuming aberration it can be game over if all they are holding is doom blade or ultimate price.
I think triton tactics is really conditional and with a mill deck your focus is already really narrow and with your spells you want to be as flexible as possible and as versatile as possible.
Mind grind sucks
Psychic spiral sucks.
I think underworld connections is a really cool piece of tech, I wonder if read the bones isn't just as good.....
Consider crypt incursion.
Maybe in your metagame, Breaking // Entering is the main piece of mill tech to use. However, my metagame isn't populated by as many creature intensive decks. I run into a lot of RDW, Grixis superfriends, Esper control, and BRW midrange. The only creature-heavy decks in my meta are mono-green and Selesnya aggro, and most of the Selesnya aggro is token-intensive. So I don't need as many Breaking // Entering. Don't assume that your metagame is going to be the same as everyone else's.
After reviewing the deck, I've determined that a great addition to this deck would be Prophet of Kruphix. If you can pull off a couple of Doorkeeper activations every turn and still keep mana open for counters and the like, it's definitely a good thing. Here's how the new list looks.
This deck is really interesting. The whole idea of turtling to mill seems really smart. I might give this a shot if my current BUG Control Mill deck (which you can find here) doesn't work.
Attempting to make this deck viable in the current standard metagame. Basically, control the board using counters and removal, use a combination of Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze to stay in the game, and try to win with a big Mind Grind or a few activations of Jace, Memory Adept. Obviously, the deck can win with creatures too, but it's more fun to mill, in my opinion.
Okay, I've homebrewed this deck, and so far it's done pretty well. But I need some suggestions on how to make it consistent. My problems tend to be keeping my hand stocked and keeping up with aggro decks. Any suggestions that anyone has would be very helpful!!!!
Just a quick note: Seize the Day offers a one shot with Karrthus. Coupled with Bear Umbra and/or Savage Beating Makes for an incredibly devastating genereal. That 7 power on a stick is pretty nice, given the 21 point general damage rule ^.^
Thanks for the tip! I've experimented with Savage Beating before. It definitely has its moments. I might give it another shot if testing with it proves to be fruitful!
Okay, I've updated the decklist following the release of Theros. I'm still reviewing suggestions from the older replies and trying some different things, but I haven't been able to play all that much lately due to some things going on in the rest of life. Other updates are coming soon, though, so stay tuned!
I've updated the decklist to reflect the first change from M14. I'm also going to review some of the suggestions provided so far and maybe do some playtesting in the next week or two.
Reviving this thread with my list that just won the TCG Player Silver Qualifier in Valley Stream, NY. The list will show up on TCG Player soon, but I figured I'd post it here for grins and giggles also.
My problem with the Jund Midrange lists that are popular now is that they're trying too hard to have all the answers in Game 1. All these decks run Slaughter Games, Rakdos's Return, Ground Seal, and Bonfire of the Damned in the main deck, and wind up siding out tons of dead cards and trying to win Games 2 and 3 on a less-than-optimal list. My list has more Game 1 wins than any other Jund list being played at my local store, and the sideboard tech is good enough to create optimal matchups against almost every deck in the format. I highly recommend playing this list over the current list that is circulating.
Ever considered Homeward Path as an additional out against Desertion/Clones? Seems like people will target you with all their Bribery effects as well, so could be useful
If I see that Clone effects start becoming more prevalent in my play group, then Homeward Path will take the spot of a basic land.
I have a Karrthus dragon tribal list as well. May I suggest a Survival/Bidding package? Looks really good with Scourge of Valkas, and you can let Karrthus be binned to set it up if you want.
Wow, I never even thought of that. The funny thing is, I run those two cards separately in other decks - Survival is in my Kamahl deck, and Bidding is in Lim-Dûl, Drana, and Olivia. I never realized the synergy until now. I might have to give that a try.
I've never thought of running Hellkite Tyrant just because it seems like it would be such a letdown to get to 18 or 19 artifacts and never be able to win with them. But that might actually be a good plan, just because it denies your opponents the use of their artifacts. A second option for artifact hate after Furnace Dragon is solid.
Looking at the M14 spoiler, I know that Scourge of Valkas needs to go into this deck. Anyone have any suggestions on what I could cut for it? I know that some people will just say that it's a less effective Warstorm Surge, but I have two responses to that. One, the most effective EDH decks that I've seen run a lot of redundant effects, because you need redundancy in a singleton format. Two, imagine how good it would be to have both Scourge of Valkas AND Warstorm Surge on the table. The damage-dealing potential is limitless.
Also, I played a series of games today against one of my buddies and his Krenko, Mob Boss deck. We split pretty evenly, except for one game where I mulliganed down to 4 before scooping it up. It was a series of one-land hands, one after another. I'm pretty sure that game was an anomaly, though, since the deck runs 39 lands and most of my starting hands are pretty flush with land. Highlight of those games was casting Genesis Wave for 7, revealing Kilnmouth Dragon, three other Dragons, Sarkhan Vol, and Fierce Empath. I got a Dragon from my deck on the Empath, then revealed five Dragons in my hand to put 15 +1/+1 counters on Kilnmouth. I used Sarkhan's +1, attacked for 39 into an empty board position, untapped everything on his turn with the Seedborn Muse that was already in play, and killed him with Kilnmouth. It was quite a fun series of events.
I see what your saying, however I dont really play Scion that way. I mostly just try to win with commander damage by using his ability as a toolbox to pull out whatever I need him to become at the time. It's really funny when I attack T4 with him, my oponent lets him through, and I turn him into Nicol Bolas for 7 commander damage and making them discard there hand. Another silly thing I like to do is turning Scion into Hellkite Tyrant to just steal all there artifacts. He is just so versatile! But im not here to try and convince you to play scion instead of karrthus, in the end commander is a casual format, so play what ya want, and you always get a thumbs up from me when you use a BAMFing dragon as the leader of your army! Your deck seems pretty solid, and I dont really have any other good suggestions for it, you seem to have everything pretty much covered. Maybee find a spot for Primal Surge? You have such a low isntant and sorcery count, that with karthus in play and used at the right time can just win you the game right there. It is however a bit risky. Maybee also another haste enabler like Fires of Yavimaya? I also really like Leyline of Lifeforce! Thats being added to my Yeva commander deck so fast XD! Chameleon Colossus is also a fun little card to play with, and he is "technicaly" a dragon so he gets all the dragon benefits.
Those are definitely some interesting tricks with Scion! I like those ideas! It's the way he was meant to be played, and I'm glad to see someone is doing that!
Primal Surge is a card that I've considered before, and it is still a possibility. However, when I've used it in other decks, such as my Kamahl, Fist of Krosa deck, it ends up being an all-or-nothing deal. Either I end up with a pitiful amount of permanents, or I end up with my entire deck on the field and no backup plan if my opponent drops a Rout or a Cyclonic Rift on me. I might try it out, but for mass permanent dropping, I've always found the somewhat controlled nature of Genesis Wave.
I've also considered using Fires of Yavimaya, but I just can't figure out how to work it in. It's a possibility still.
I might try out Chameleon Colossus at some point. I try to avoid somewhat vanilla creatures if I can, but he might be useful at some juncture.
Wish I could play karthus, but my playgroup really likes there clone cards XD, so I opted for Scion of the Ur-Dragon for my dragon tribal fun.
Scion is good, but I find that too many decks using Scion rely too heavily on graveyard tricks like Entomb and just sit idle until they can Living Death into a win. Not my play style, personally. But hey, if it works for others, I'm not one to argue with them for their play style.
Maybe in your metagame, Breaking // Entering is the main piece of mill tech to use. However, my metagame isn't populated by as many creature intensive decks. I run into a lot of RDW, Grixis superfriends, Esper control, and BRW midrange. The only creature-heavy decks in my meta are mono-green and Selesnya aggro, and most of the Selesnya aggro is token-intensive. So I don't need as many Breaking // Entering. Don't assume that your metagame is going to be the same as everyone else's.
After reviewing the deck, I've determined that a great addition to this deck would be Prophet of Kruphix. If you can pull off a couple of Doorkeeper activations every turn and still keep mana open for counters and the like, it's definitely a good thing. Here's how the new list looks.
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Axebane Guardian
3x Trestle Troll
1x Consuming Aberration
1x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
2x Prophet of Kruphix
2x Triton Tactics
3x Psychic Strike
1x Psychic Spiral
3x Thoughtsieze
2x Breaking // Entering
1x Mind Grind
1x Traumatize
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Jace, Memory Adept
3x Forest
3x Island
3x Swamp
3x Breeding Pool
1x Golgari Guildgate
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Mystery
4x Watery Grave
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Curse of the Swine
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Golgari Charm
2x Crypt Incursion
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Vraska the Unseen
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Axebane Guardian
4x Trestle Troll
1x Consuming Aberration
1x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
3x Triton Tactics
3x Psychic Strike
1x Psychic Spiral
3x Thoughtsieze
2x Breaking // Entering
1x Mind Grind
1x Traumatize
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Forest
3x Island
4x Swamp
3x Breeding Pool
1x Golgari Guildgate
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Mystery
4x Watery Grave
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Curse of the Swine
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Golgari Charm
2x Crypt Incursion
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Vraska the Unseen
I'm going to try this list out at the TCQ that is happening at my local store this weekend. I'll let you know how it works.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Attempting to make this deck viable in the current standard metagame. Basically, control the board using counters and removal, use a combination of Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze to stay in the game, and try to win with a big Mind Grind or a few activations of Jace, Memory Adept. Obviously, the deck can win with creatures too, but it's more fun to mill, in my opinion.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
4x Scavenging Ooze
3x Aburpt Decay
2x Dissolve
2x Far // Away
2x Hero's Downfall
3x Psychic Strike
2x Putrefy
3x Thoughtseize
1x Curse of the Swine
1x Mind Grind
3x Read the Bones
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Forest
3x Island
4x Swamp
3x Breeding Pool
1x Golgari Guildgate
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Mystery
4x Watery Grave
1x Curse of the Swine
2x Cyclonic Rift
3x Doom Blade
2x Essence Scatter
2x Negate
3x Nightveil Specter
2x Vraska the Unseen
Thanks for any help that anyone can offer!
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Thanks for the tip! I've experimented with Savage Beating before. It definitely has its moments. I might give it another shot if testing with it proves to be fruitful!
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
3x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Olivia Voldaren
4x Thragtusk
3x Thundermaw Hellkite
2x Sire of Insanity
Instants
4x Tragic Slip
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Putrefy
Sorceries
3x Farseek
2x Domri Rade
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands
4x Blood Crypt
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Dragonskull Summit
2x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Rootbound Crag
4x Stomping Ground
3x Woodland Cemetery
1x Bonfire of the Damned
2x Dreadbore
2x Ground Seal
2x Mizzium Mortarts
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Sever the Bloodline
2x Silklash Spider
1x Vraska the Unseen
2x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
My problem with the Jund Midrange lists that are popular now is that they're trying too hard to have all the answers in Game 1. All these decks run Slaughter Games, Rakdos's Return, Ground Seal, and Bonfire of the Damned in the main deck, and wind up siding out tons of dead cards and trying to win Games 2 and 3 on a less-than-optimal list. My list has more Game 1 wins than any other Jund list being played at my local store, and the sideboard tech is good enough to create optimal matchups against almost every deck in the format. I highly recommend playing this list over the current list that is circulating.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
If I see that Clone effects start becoming more prevalent in my play group, then Homeward Path will take the spot of a basic land.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Now then......who's responsible for updating the decklist database?
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Wow, I never even thought of that. The funny thing is, I run those two cards separately in other decks - Survival is in my Kamahl deck, and Bidding is in Lim-Dûl, Drana, and Olivia. I never realized the synergy until now. I might have to give that a try.
I've never thought of running Hellkite Tyrant just because it seems like it would be such a letdown to get to 18 or 19 artifacts and never be able to win with them. But that might actually be a good plan, just because it denies your opponents the use of their artifacts. A second option for artifact hate after Furnace Dragon is solid.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Also, I played a series of games today against one of my buddies and his Krenko, Mob Boss deck. We split pretty evenly, except for one game where I mulliganed down to 4 before scooping it up. It was a series of one-land hands, one after another. I'm pretty sure that game was an anomaly, though, since the deck runs 39 lands and most of my starting hands are pretty flush with land. Highlight of those games was casting Genesis Wave for 7, revealing Kilnmouth Dragon, three other Dragons, Sarkhan Vol, and Fierce Empath. I got a Dragon from my deck on the Empath, then revealed five Dragons in my hand to put 15 +1/+1 counters on Kilnmouth. I used Sarkhan's +1, attacked for 39 into an empty board position, untapped everything on his turn with the Seedborn Muse that was already in play, and killed him with Kilnmouth. It was quite a fun series of events.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Those are definitely some interesting tricks with Scion! I like those ideas! It's the way he was meant to be played, and I'm glad to see someone is doing that!
Primal Surge is a card that I've considered before, and it is still a possibility. However, when I've used it in other decks, such as my Kamahl, Fist of Krosa deck, it ends up being an all-or-nothing deal. Either I end up with a pitiful amount of permanents, or I end up with my entire deck on the field and no backup plan if my opponent drops a Rout or a Cyclonic Rift on me. I might try it out, but for mass permanent dropping, I've always found the somewhat controlled nature of Genesis Wave.
I've also considered using Fires of Yavimaya, but I just can't figure out how to work it in. It's a possibility still.
I might try out Chameleon Colossus at some point. I try to avoid somewhat vanilla creatures if I can, but he might be useful at some juncture.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided
Scion is good, but I find that too many decks using Scion rely too heavily on graveyard tricks like Entomb and just sit idle until they can Living Death into a win. Not my play style, personally. But hey, if it works for others, I'm not one to argue with them for their play style.
Read New & Noteworthy every Friday!
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Captain Sisay
Kaervek the Merciless
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Kresh the Bloodbraided