I certainly oblige that it is aesthetically bizarre - a bunch of hybrid-colored Alara draft fodder mashed together. But the drive for aesthetic nicety should not compel one to reconfigure an archetype that is mechanically impressive...Should it?
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
Well, you admit that you have lost to it often...What exactly is your criticism of the archetype? Also, it is a common misconception that the deck folds immediately to dedicated grave-hate.
I think we need to attain a better understanding of what exactly you think is wrong with it before we can comment fruitfully. "Looks horrible" is not a particularly enlightening comment.
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
I said I've been running Mox. Card disadvantage I disagree with. If your on the play, the deck has tons of options with Mox and 2 lands in land. On the draw with a Wasteland and other land to pitch to Mox...awesome.
I then thought, well what if I draw it any time but the early game? IE when I don't have a land to toss. That's when I added Goyfs, as its Goyf food. The only real reason I could think to make up for it. I also dropped a bit of my discard to balance the dead draws.
I could talk more about the decision to switch to a rock themed deck for right now, but I still think Mox is worthy of a test in the control BW/x. That's where I initially tested the idea.
Edit: I don't think Hymn on turn 1 should be the first play, unless you kept a weird hand that doesn't have to many answers. It also depends if on the play or draw..but I like having the opponents hand slightly smaller. I've done the Hymn on a 7 card hand, it still can be great, but just has less chance to be great.
Can you post your mox-inclusive list?
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
I've run hard into the 20k character limit. Trying to talk about card selection and have an appropriate selection of sample decklists while treating UWR Twin as falling under the umbrella of the primer proved to be too taxing on how much space I had (the formatting isn't chewing up much space; it's actually the decklists and the number of cards I try to have a sentence or two about that eats it up). If someone does come along and put together a UWR Twin primer, I would love to just link to it and then be able to drop the discussion of W cards entirely, freeing up space to actually talk strategy.
Feedback is appreciated, of course.
Where can I find this primer?
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
It's important that you treat this forum as strictly competitive: post the ideal list and work toward finishing it.
That being said, you're on 19 lands with no chrome mox / no deathrite shaman. This will simply not work. In your list cabal therapy is > than duress hands down no debate, and there will be no way around that if you want to stay competitive. Also, go up to 4 dark confidant. It's absolutely necessary as he is the best card in the deck, essentially. I recognize your stylistic dislike for some of these suggestions (ignoring your monetary problems) but am giving you the same advice anyway.
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
I haven't played straight BW for a long while, but it is my understanding (based on the positive results in REL tournaments from people who are in BW) that it is still viable to run 2x chrome mox and hero of bladehold as the top-end, and to play extra copies of vindicate.
There are also vial builds that are more creature-centric (you can find those lists in the aggro Deadguy thread).
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
Maybe lucent luminid for the future-shifted card? Mark Rosewater's blog says that "A Future Sight card and the set does something we’ve never done before except on another Future Sight card."
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
Chains and Sylvan are fine together. If you play sylvan first (and it resolves) then you have an insane advantage engine online. If Chains resolves first, it's going to do it's job as well. They are both sufficiently powerful cards that if either comes first it is going to help you. The rare situation where you want both but can't play both is not significant enough actually disenable myself from playing them together.
BUG delver is a tough matchup for this deck, IMO, because they have threats that get hated by the grave but also have confidants and such. The sideboarding strategy should be similar except extirpates are probably worse and a 2nd e-tutor needs to be included to ensure that RIP goes live. The fact that they have abrupt decay makes it less reliable and more of a bandage than a long-term solution. Humility seems good here instead of one of the two extirpates, since it nerfs their team and you have equipment (they may board in Jitte, mind you, in which case it is a race) and is out of abrupt decay range.
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
Against RUG I side out hymn because it doesn't affect the board and does not cripple them. Hitting lands with hymn doesn't prevent them from casting basically anything, given their curve. Hitting creatures is good but they only need 1-2 to tempo you out if you aren't careful. Hitting cantrips is underwhelming. In addition, it is a common daze target and makes their spell pierces stronger. Finally, it promotes fetching basic swamps which keeps you off of other colors if you want to dodge their wastelands, although this latter problem is common to more matchups than RUG delver and is something a good manabase should be able to deal with.
I have never really regretted siding them out.
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
In (on the play): +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Life from the Loam, +1 E-tutor, +1 Chains of Mephistopheles
I think the logic here is pretty obvious. Now:
Out (on the draw): -4 Hymn, -1 Elspeth, -1 Vindicate
In (on the draw): +2 Rest in Peace, +2 Extirpate, +1 Life from the Loam, +1 Chains of Mephistopheles
The logic here is that I want to have ways of interacting when their dazes are live: extirpate is a strange inclusion according to some but it goes a long way, especially if you can strip a goose from hand early and extirpate the rest. Additionally, it shrinks goose in the early turns and makes their brainstorms awkward since you can force shuffles on them. It's better to have the extirpate than a vindicate that is going to be too slow to be relevant (IMO, but this is debatable and I could see myself going back and forth on this). Extirpating trop island or volcanic island after wasteland is also a blowout. If rest in peace resolves (and obsoletes extirpate) you are probably winning anyway.
Deathblade:
Out (on the play): -3 hymn to tourach
In (on the play): +1 Chains of Meph, +1 E-tutor, +1 Life from the Loam. You could consider cutting the 4th hymn for pithing needle (JTMS) but it is probably not necessary.
Alternatively:
Out (on the draw): -4 hymn
In (on the draw): +1 Chains of Mephistopheles, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 E-tutor
I feel like the life from the loam plan is less good when they're dropping lands before you and will be able to exile LFTL with deathrite more often. Hence, the second e-tutor and needle come in to turn off Jace and let you win the attrition war (all of their other threats get massacred pretty regularly by 4x LotV and our traditional spot removal suite).
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
^With regards to your list: is Jotun Grunt really effective? Why not run dedicated grave hate instead of taking a chance on a 4/4 that is super slow at GY hate and is susceptible to greater shares of removal? I want grunt to be good, but he is outclassed by dedicated hate cards IMHO.
I have not been in on the movement from finks to riftwatcher but I find it hard to imagine that he is much better or better at all: finks has two lives, riftwatcher merely gains extra life but has no resilience in combat / to damage.
The rest seems fine, I think. I have not tested voice but I can't imagine a value bear being terrible. Is Voice the norm right now?
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
You are probably not receiving many responses because everyone (myself included) migrated over to cockatrice ages ago. Outside of a very small number of tiny preferences, cockatrice is the superior program.
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
Liliana is stone-cold nuts basically all the time. Experience will tell you this. However, supplementing her with early discard is a respectable and powerful strategy in BW(x) builds.
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
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BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
I think we need to attain a better understanding of what exactly you think is wrong with it before we can comment fruitfully. "Looks horrible" is not a particularly enlightening comment.
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
Can you post your mox-inclusive list?
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
Where can I find this primer?
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
That being said, you're on 19 lands with no chrome mox / no deathrite shaman. This will simply not work. In your list cabal therapy is > than duress hands down no debate, and there will be no way around that if you want to stay competitive. Also, go up to 4 dark confidant. It's absolutely necessary as he is the best card in the deck, essentially. I recognize your stylistic dislike for some of these suggestions (ignoring your monetary problems) but am giving you the same advice anyway.
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
There are also vial builds that are more creature-centric (you can find those lists in the aggro Deadguy thread).
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/55998229408/so-now-what-can-you-tell-us-about-theros
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
BUG delver is a tough matchup for this deck, IMO, because they have threats that get hated by the grave but also have confidants and such. The sideboarding strategy should be similar except extirpates are probably worse and a 2nd e-tutor needs to be included to ensure that RIP goes live. The fact that they have abrupt decay makes it less reliable and more of a bandage than a long-term solution. Humility seems good here instead of one of the two extirpates, since it nerfs their team and you have equipment (they may board in Jitte, mind you, in which case it is a race) and is out of abrupt decay range.
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
I have never really regretted siding them out.
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
http://mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/92740
RUG Delver:
Out (on the play): -4 hymn, -1 elspeth
In (on the play): +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Life from the Loam, +1 E-tutor, +1 Chains of Mephistopheles
I think the logic here is pretty obvious. Now:
Out (on the draw): -4 Hymn, -1 Elspeth, -1 Vindicate
In (on the draw): +2 Rest in Peace, +2 Extirpate, +1 Life from the Loam, +1 Chains of Mephistopheles
The logic here is that I want to have ways of interacting when their dazes are live: extirpate is a strange inclusion according to some but it goes a long way, especially if you can strip a goose from hand early and extirpate the rest. Additionally, it shrinks goose in the early turns and makes their brainstorms awkward since you can force shuffles on them. It's better to have the extirpate than a vindicate that is going to be too slow to be relevant (IMO, but this is debatable and I could see myself going back and forth on this). Extirpating trop island or volcanic island after wasteland is also a blowout. If rest in peace resolves (and obsoletes extirpate) you are probably winning anyway.
Deathblade:
Out (on the play): -3 hymn to tourach
In (on the play): +1 Chains of Meph, +1 E-tutor, +1 Life from the Loam. You could consider cutting the 4th hymn for pithing needle (JTMS) but it is probably not necessary.
Alternatively:
Out (on the draw): -4 hymn
In (on the draw): +1 Chains of Mephistopheles, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 E-tutor
I feel like the life from the loam plan is less good when they're dropping lands before you and will be able to exile LFTL with deathrite more often. Hence, the second e-tutor and needle come in to turn off Jace and let you win the attrition war (all of their other threats get massacred pretty regularly by 4x LotV and our traditional spot removal suite).
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
I have not been in on the movement from finks to riftwatcher but I find it hard to imagine that he is much better or better at all: finks has two lives, riftwatcher merely gains extra life but has no resilience in combat / to damage.
The rest seems fine, I think. I have not tested voice but I can't imagine a value bear being terrible. Is Voice the norm right now?
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH