In theory, with enough ramp and a mycosynth lattice in play, the borrower would also gain activated abilities of any top-decked planeswalkers, lands, and/or enchantments too right?
No, this does not work. Lattice turns PERMANENTS into artifacts, and cards that would resolve as permanents are only considered permanents while they are in play, not on the top of the deck. It turns ALL cards colorless, but not into artifacts.
I disagree, if anything, this card is competing against chains in a spot for most decks that would want something like this.
They are both 1B enchantments that are essentially doing nothing by themselves. If you're deck is built around, or contains elements that make your opponent discard, both of these cards get better. However, Chains has the big advantage here because in most MU's the opponent is either running cantrips, or some other CA engine that is completely hosed by Chains without any additional cards needing to be played. Chains also gets better if you have any effects that make your opponent draw, meaning cards like Cephalid Coliseum which don't have any natural synergy on their own with Waste Not, have an amazing synergy with Chains.
What's more, is that these cards don't want to be played in the same deck imo. Why? Because if you have both of these cards in play, and an opponent is able to fairly consistently discard lands, you're punished. While this, on first thought doesn't seem like a big deal, especially in a format where decks are able to run on minimal lands, think also of the number of decks that naturally play or can benefit from Loam, and how easily it could be sideboarded in a lot of decks.
Loam for example would wreck someone playing both of these cards, because it turns any discard spell (Something you are probably trying to play alongside either Chains or Waste Not, and are usually card parity at best), into card disadvantage for you casting it. Loam is not the only example of this, there are a ton of cards that are good on their own and can put lands in your hand, plus decks like "Lands" that naturally can discard lands consistently, oh, and plays Loam regularly.
Drawing either of these cards seems like a dead draw if I already have the other in play, so I'd rather just play the better 1B enchantment with similar benefits, which to me seems like Chains of Mephistopheles.
To be fair, I can see Waste Not seeing play in the future, for example if Mind Twist ever came off the ban list.
It's very M2014 heavy because it actually started life as a sealed deck a friend and I made when we got some fat packs, but I'm not concerned with keeping it modern or standard legal.
I've played three games with it and am 2-1 so far. The first win I managed to have myself close to 50 life and I'm pretty sure I didn't take any damage, and the second win was a little closer. The loss was... bad.
Early game is iffy for me and I need some better low mana creatures.
Like I said, I'm not at all concerned with staying tournament legal as I just play with friends for fun. So I've got cards going back to the early expansions to work with.
I'm open to any suggestions on where to go from here.
Thanks.
The developing legacy forum is kind of for tuning decks to be competitive, and while that may be your aim, I'm not entirely sure. Seeing as how this was originally a sealed deck, I assume you're rather new to MTG, or, at the very least, new to legacy. That being said, it may be beneficial to post this in the budget legacy forum, or even a casual forum, as you'll probably get better suggestions there, because as it stands, if you want this to be competitive in a Legacy environment, I would suggest starting anew, because most if not all of these cards won't make the cut. If you are indeed looking to get advice on how to make this competitive, I would look at the Death and Taxes thread in the Established subforum, or maybe the Parfait thread here in developing, as those are really the only "real" mono-white decks in legacy.
Hmmmm, I think Dryad Militant is one of those underrated cards that gets written off because it hasn't found a home yet. It's certainly very good, and much better than people are giving it credit for since it single-handedly shuts down pretty much every combo deck, snapcaster shenanigans, loam engines, shrinks goyf etc., all whilst posing a serviceable threat. That said, I'm not convinced that it's good enough to replace existing cards in decks currently in its colours, or a need for its particular utility doesn't currently exist.
I have to disagree on... most of these points.
"Single-Handedly shuts down combo"
Truth is, if I was playing almost ANY iteration of combo, and Dryad Militant was my opponents go-to hate card, I would be giddy as a schoolgirl.
-Show and Tell variants are widely unaffected by it.
-The graveyard interactions that storm has aren't even remotely necessary to combo off.
-Reanimator really doesn't care about militant, as it doesn't affect creatures in the yard.
-Elves don't care.
-ANT doesn't care.
-I suppose it's decent(?) against dredge, but certainly not a blowout.
-The glass cannon decks don't care, with the exception of maybe Oops All Spells, which can very easily win before you have a chance to even play militant.
-High Tide is maybe marginally hurt by not being able to Spiral their Tides back into their deck, but it's hardly the best hate.
I really don't see Dryad Militant being a legit answer to ANY combo deck.
On the other things you mentioned:
-Snapcaster isn't a significant enough card to devote any sort of hate to, and even if it was, he's usually played in decks with burn, so a 2/1 with no protection isn't good hate. Not to mention that he can still flashback any spell played before Militant hits the board.
-Goyf: Dropping militant doesn't shrink goyf the slightest bit on ETB. In the best case scenario, Militant is going to prevent goyf from getting an additional +2/+2, but instants and sorceries can be very easily played before Militant lands, and most instants (Brainstorm being the best example) can be cast in response to militant, meaning that by playing militant you MAYBE prevented my goyf from getting +1/+1 later in the game... Also, any removal spell that is used to take out the super easy to kill Militant is going to give goyf his +1/+1.
-Loam: Stopping Loam Engines would actually be a pretty legit way to use Dryad Militant.
im sure most will agree that there has been alot of power creep over the last few years with cards like mental misstep and other phyrexian mana spells.
it seems these days the next big thing is super efficiency (deathrite shaman)
and of course to balance it we got super resliance such as loxodon smiter this card hasnt made a big splash in legacy yet but with theros and other over looked cards. G/ is becoming very "resilient" and power wise a big threat. For G/ we got fleecemane lion. now i know many think the monstrosity mechanic is not very good but this card when monstrous is unremovable from the board. and its only 2 cmc on a 3/3 body.
important part
ok im getting a bit over excited but heres what we as legacy players should be looking at, its the overall options that G/ has, with G/ "inverse" power creep how can we as legacy players break this and put it into a deck that is efficent and resiliant what else can we throw into a G/W deck to really drive it in.
how about some of these cards i have put into my test deck surely the picture will become clearer with G/W power creep to all of you
I feel bad, because the last post I made, and now this one, I'm having to emphasize that I'm not trolling. I'm not.
Firstly, I think G/W is definitely a strong color combo, Maverick is a good deck that has fallen out of popularity, but could very easily come back.
You're card examples and decklist however, don't seem to have anything to do with the inherent reasons why G/W is strong, and to be honest, aren't even a good representation of a reasonable G/W list in a competitive environment.
The good things:
STP: check
lands: Not really good, but could be worked out.
Aether Vial: I guess.
Pridemage: Not utilized effectively, but sure.
VoR: I can see how this might? be playable in some future legacy metagame, with future printings and with B/R changes, but I don't see a home for it now. The same is maybe even true for Smiter (Mind Twist Unbanning?)
The bad:
Pretty much everything else. Not to be mean, but it's kind of true.
***: Seems Counterproductive.
Land Tax: You don't have anything to compliment it and are trying to build 4 mana with no ramp for other poor choices. While a few - several legacy decks can effectively run off 2 land or so.
Fleecemane: In almost, if not all, games, will be worse than goyf, with little to no benefit.
Wilt-Leaf Liege: Costs 4 and isn't JTMS, and isn't even as good as cards within the colors for 4CMC, not to mention running it adjacent to Land Tax.
Shield of the Oversoul: Needs a creature to work. Leaves you open to be 2 for 1'd, is CMC3, gives protection from some removal, and not the most common one, and +2/+2 and flying, providing the creature is the correct colors.
Dryad Militant: Completely outclassed imo by scavenging ooze and RIP which are both playable in your colors.
I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, but this doesn't seem any more convenient or useful in any way than just goldfishing on one of many programs? (mws, cockatrice, mtgo, lots of websites)
I think I heard the Legendary Land thing from Maro's social media outlets. Something about how you can establish multiple 'manalinks' on a unique land, making legendary lands unflavorful.
It would only work in a block called 'Shandalar' where legendary dual rip-offs would make sense and the flavor will have to be 'sorry, only one mana-link' or something.
I think shocklands make as much sense as pain lands which make as much sense as fetch lands. It takes the cost of life to establish/utilize the manalinks, but for no reason should it destroy or refresh itself because of multiple ones (in the case of the legendary drawback).
It's reasonable, slightly OP, but I don't think this will happen.
First of all, they would exist for the sole purpose of demonstrating that being Legendary is a drawback, and there is not much 'flavor' about the mechanics of legend-ruling your own land.
Secondly, I've been hearing that they don't intend to make Legendary Lands anymore. Maybe the new Legend rule changes things, but I doubt it will. Printing a cycle of legendary mana-fixers seem like the last thing that would do at this point.
I would argue that Duals that randomly shock you for no particular reason have less flavor. There is absolutely nothing about an "Overgrown Tomb" that should deal damage to me. Whereas Legendary could very easily fit the flavor of certain sets.
If they decide not to print legendary lands anymore, then I guess just disregard this.
So, this is baseless speculation, but I think it's a worthwhile thing to discuss.
With the new Legend Rule, each player may have a copy of the same Legendary permanent in play. With this rule change, I see no reason why a cycle like this shouldn't be printed:
Underground Puddle
Legendary Land - Island Swamp
T: Add U or B to your mana pool.
The OG duals would still be strictly better, so their cost wouldn't plummet, but it would allow for A LOT of decks to be played on a much lower budget. Decks like Team America will probably still play at least 3 U. Seas, because that deck needs multiple U/B duals, but a lot of decks don't need more than 1 of the same dual, especially certain ones, like Taiga for example.
Do any mill decks run Reanimation spells? Or at least have them in the sideboard? I always thought about using a combination of the two strategies if I were to ever decide to make a Mill deck.
There are a good number of decks that don't have any worthwhile reanimate targets, so it would be strictly SB I think if anything.
My two, main win conditions are to actualy mill my opponent with the perplex help of Hedron Crab. My second are to overwhelm my opponent with Roil Elemental, that takes control of all my opponents creatures. I can also trample my opponent to death, with Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer, but is not excatly what I am planning to do.
If you have played a little Duels of the Planeswalkers 2012, you might see that I have taken inspiration from Ancient Depths and Kiora Atua, which you can see through the whole deck. Explore and Explosive Vegetation, as well as Hedron Crab origins from Ancient Depths.
Rampant Growth is standard ramp, and Boundless Realms is just awesome:o. If you, for example have a Hedron Crab and eight lands in play. Tap seven mana: Play Boundless Realms. You manage to mill your opponent with 24 cards! Or if you have Roil Elemental in play, your opponent can forget to have any creatures in play. Urban Evolution is just a really cool card, where I play an extra land and draw three cards, where the card drawing is neccessary.
Because before my last modification for the deck, I had to deal with a massive problem. I did not have enough fuel to drive the deck proparly, and I constantly lost games because of this problem. That is why four Mind Springs sprang in the deck to fill my fueltank, which it has yet to fail in. It have worked perfectly so far and I am very pleased. Exploration is pretty obvious, so will not bother to write anything about it, as well as Oboro, Palace in the Clouds.
Even though I am pleased with the deck, there is always room for improvments. So please, state your impresion on my deck and tell me where I can improve the deck.
In advance, thank you very much!
Roil Elemental is overcosted.
Molimo isn't very good.
Vorinclex would be much better as Primeval Titan
All of your ramp requires you to run all of these basic lands, when Fetch Lands are the BEST thing to compliment landfall.
Fastbond is banned, so Oboro isn't very good here either.
Boundless Realms is way too costly. Scapeshift would be much better. Play 4 fetch lands (mill 12 with crab), crack fetches (Mill 12 more), scapeshift for 4 fetches (Mill 12 more), crack fetches (Mill 12 more)
mill 48 for 4cmc seems better than milling 24 for 7cmc
Did you read each of those cards? I am guessing you did not because otherwise you wouldn't make an untrue statement that is starting each person in the face right above your response. Less than half of those cards involve your opponent making a choice.
Less than Half is definitely less than Most.
You and others keep pointing at 1 card. One card does not confirm/define a color's ability. Additionally, the discard I talked about was not random. One of Red's abilities is randomness.
Apply randomness to anything and it can easily fit into red's color pie, the only exception would be random life gain, but there is even a card with that. The trade off is that it is more of a life transfer than a life gain.
The discard I described above is a deck/hand manipulation ability to remove cards that are not needed, or are not wanted in the hand/library from that location into the graveyard for some kind of gain at a later time.
The discard is useless alone, therefore it is a planning/strategic/forethought card. Cards of this design belong to blue, while the occasional one will be printed in black.
Again argument places it more in blue than in black.
Whether it's less than half, or most, it's the reason those cards are blue.
Blue also likes to fool with exiled stuff, be it drawing from exiled piles or casting Griffins from exile, that's a blue thing.
Nearly ALL of the cards you listed either fit that criteria for being blue, or involve a choice on the opponents end making them blue.
Gamble was just an example of how other colors can tutor for anything if you tack on an ability that feels very (insert color here).
Discard is definitely a primarily black ability, so is tutoring for anything, so is selectively putting cards in your graveyard. None of that feels blue unless you tack on something else that makes it blue.
If your proposed "Ball and Chain" card exiled 2 cards from your library instead of putting them into the graveyard, that seems blue, but there is absolutely nothing about a double entomb that feels blue.
No, this does not work. Lattice turns PERMANENTS into artifacts, and cards that would resolve as permanents are only considered permanents while they are in play, not on the top of the deck. It turns ALL cards colorless, but not into artifacts.
I disagree, if anything, this card is competing against chains in a spot for most decks that would want something like this.
They are both 1B enchantments that are essentially doing nothing by themselves. If you're deck is built around, or contains elements that make your opponent discard, both of these cards get better. However, Chains has the big advantage here because in most MU's the opponent is either running cantrips, or some other CA engine that is completely hosed by Chains without any additional cards needing to be played. Chains also gets better if you have any effects that make your opponent draw, meaning cards like Cephalid Coliseum which don't have any natural synergy on their own with Waste Not, have an amazing synergy with Chains.
What's more, is that these cards don't want to be played in the same deck imo. Why? Because if you have both of these cards in play, and an opponent is able to fairly consistently discard lands, you're punished. While this, on first thought doesn't seem like a big deal, especially in a format where decks are able to run on minimal lands, think also of the number of decks that naturally play or can benefit from Loam, and how easily it could be sideboarded in a lot of decks.
Loam for example would wreck someone playing both of these cards, because it turns any discard spell (Something you are probably trying to play alongside either Chains or Waste Not, and are usually card parity at best), into card disadvantage for you casting it. Loam is not the only example of this, there are a ton of cards that are good on their own and can put lands in your hand, plus decks like "Lands" that naturally can discard lands consistently, oh, and plays Loam regularly.
Drawing either of these cards seems like a dead draw if I already have the other in play, so I'd rather just play the better 1B enchantment with similar benefits, which to me seems like Chains of Mephistopheles.
To be fair, I can see Waste Not seeing play in the future, for example if Mind Twist ever came off the ban list.
The developing legacy forum is kind of for tuning decks to be competitive, and while that may be your aim, I'm not entirely sure. Seeing as how this was originally a sealed deck, I assume you're rather new to MTG, or, at the very least, new to legacy. That being said, it may be beneficial to post this in the budget legacy forum, or even a casual forum, as you'll probably get better suggestions there, because as it stands, if you want this to be competitive in a Legacy environment, I would suggest starting anew, because most if not all of these cards won't make the cut. If you are indeed looking to get advice on how to make this competitive, I would look at the Death and Taxes thread in the Established subforum, or maybe the Parfait thread here in developing, as those are really the only "real" mono-white decks in legacy.
I have to disagree on... most of these points.
"Single-Handedly shuts down combo"
Truth is, if I was playing almost ANY iteration of combo, and Dryad Militant was my opponents go-to hate card, I would be giddy as a schoolgirl.
-Show and Tell variants are widely unaffected by it.
-The graveyard interactions that storm has aren't even remotely necessary to combo off.
-Reanimator really doesn't care about militant, as it doesn't affect creatures in the yard.
-Elves don't care.
-ANT doesn't care.
-I suppose it's decent(?) against dredge, but certainly not a blowout.
-The glass cannon decks don't care, with the exception of maybe Oops All Spells, which can very easily win before you have a chance to even play militant.
-High Tide is maybe marginally hurt by not being able to Spiral their Tides back into their deck, but it's hardly the best hate.
I really don't see Dryad Militant being a legit answer to ANY combo deck.
On the other things you mentioned:
-Snapcaster isn't a significant enough card to devote any sort of hate to, and even if it was, he's usually played in decks with burn, so a 2/1 with no protection isn't good hate. Not to mention that he can still flashback any spell played before Militant hits the board.
-Goyf: Dropping militant doesn't shrink goyf the slightest bit on ETB. In the best case scenario, Militant is going to prevent goyf from getting an additional +2/+2, but instants and sorceries can be very easily played before Militant lands, and most instants (Brainstorm being the best example) can be cast in response to militant, meaning that by playing militant you MAYBE prevented my goyf from getting +1/+1 later in the game... Also, any removal spell that is used to take out the super easy to kill Militant is going to give goyf his +1/+1.
-Loam: Stopping Loam Engines would actually be a pretty legit way to use Dryad Militant.
I feel bad, because the last post I made, and now this one, I'm having to emphasize that I'm not trolling. I'm not.
Firstly, I think G/W is definitely a strong color combo, Maverick is a good deck that has fallen out of popularity, but could very easily come back.
You're card examples and decklist however, don't seem to have anything to do with the inherent reasons why G/W is strong, and to be honest, aren't even a good representation of a reasonable G/W list in a competitive environment.
The good things:
STP: check
lands: Not really good, but could be worked out.
Aether Vial: I guess.
Pridemage: Not utilized effectively, but sure.
VoR: I can see how this might? be playable in some future legacy metagame, with future printings and with B/R changes, but I don't see a home for it now. The same is maybe even true for Smiter (Mind Twist Unbanning?)
The bad:
Pretty much everything else. Not to be mean, but it's kind of true.
***: Seems Counterproductive.
Land Tax: You don't have anything to compliment it and are trying to build 4 mana with no ramp for other poor choices. While a few - several legacy decks can effectively run off 2 land or so.
Fleecemane: In almost, if not all, games, will be worse than goyf, with little to no benefit.
Wilt-Leaf Liege: Costs 4 and isn't JTMS, and isn't even as good as cards within the colors for 4CMC, not to mention running it adjacent to Land Tax.
Shield of the Oversoul: Needs a creature to work. Leaves you open to be 2 for 1'd, is CMC3, gives protection from some removal, and not the most common one, and +2/+2 and flying, providing the creature is the correct colors.
Dryad Militant: Completely outclassed imo by scavenging ooze and RIP which are both playable in your colors.
yeah....
Am I wrong?
What do you mean by manalink?
I would argue that Duals that randomly shock you for no particular reason have less flavor. There is absolutely nothing about an "Overgrown Tomb" that should deal damage to me. Whereas Legendary could very easily fit the flavor of certain sets.
If they decide not to print legendary lands anymore, then I guess just disregard this.
With the new Legend Rule, each player may have a copy of the same Legendary permanent in play. With this rule change, I see no reason why a cycle like this shouldn't be printed:
The OG duals would still be strictly better, so their cost wouldn't plummet, but it would allow for A LOT of decks to be played on a much lower budget. Decks like Team America will probably still play at least 3 U. Seas, because that deck needs multiple U/B duals, but a lot of decks don't need more than 1 of the same dual, especially certain ones, like Taiga for example.
What do you guys think? Would this be reasonable?
Why did you post this in the Ban List discussion thread?
2WW + 2 Cards for a 1/1 Token and a Basic Land seems terribad.
Also, Firestorm is really bad. You MUST have X targets.
Suffocating Blast is also bad as the 3 damage is not a may ability.
The charms seem decent.
There are a good number of decks that don't have any worthwhile reanimate targets, so it would be strictly SB I think if anything.
Roil Elemental is overcosted.
Molimo isn't very good.
Vorinclex would be much better as Primeval Titan
All of your ramp requires you to run all of these basic lands, when Fetch Lands are the BEST thing to compliment landfall.
Fastbond is banned, so Oboro isn't very good here either.
Boundless Realms is way too costly. Scapeshift would be much better. Play 4 fetch lands (mill 12 with crab), crack fetches (Mill 12 more), scapeshift for 4 fetches (Mill 12 more), crack fetches (Mill 12 more)
mill 48 for 4cmc seems better than milling 24 for 7cmc
Crop Rotation does similar things.
Lotus Cobra seems better than most of your ramp.
Whether it's less than half, or most, it's the reason those cards are blue.
Blue also likes to fool with exiled stuff, be it drawing from exiled piles or casting Griffins from exile, that's a blue thing.
Nearly ALL of the cards you listed either fit that criteria for being blue, or involve a choice on the opponents end making them blue.
Gamble was just an example of how other colors can tutor for anything if you tack on an ability that feels very (insert color here).
Discard is definitely a primarily black ability, so is tutoring for anything, so is selectively putting cards in your graveyard. None of that feels blue unless you tack on something else that makes it blue.
If your proposed "Ball and Chain" card exiled 2 cards from your library instead of putting them into the graveyard, that seems blue, but there is absolutely nothing about a double entomb that feels blue.