MTG Salvation

Quote from badjuju

You wanna try that one more time?

Edit: I guess I should have fully read scion hah!

You will most likely be casting Scion from hand, unless you go with a Solar Flare type list, even though it doesn't matter where it is cast from as it will always have the ETB trigger.

Has anyone tried to plug in the Cackling Counterpart/Scion of Vitu-Ghazi combo into esper?

With Cockatrice shut down will this be help on MWS or Lackey? I am currently on the www.Woogerworks.com server with Cockatrice, so i guess that is an option as well.

Quote from Reflexed

I understand that blind obedience isn't the greatest in alot of matches but where it is good it really does shine. I run a set of each can trip azorious charm/think twice and just being able to extort each time you cycle or flash back a card seems really good. The 5-10 life you gain isn't always relevant but when it is you'll be glad you have it. It might just be because skull crack is becoming a thing in my meta so I can't always rely on revelations to pad health total

I agree with that. Which is why I think Shaheen's list does well. I find myself conserving more life running his list compared to the 1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 1x Jace, Memory Adept list's. The cinci open show's both list's in 3rd and 4th place so I don't necessarily believe one is better than the other when the difference between 3rd and 4th is tie breaker's, but I have found my preference.

The new Esper list's run between 4 and 5 edicts and Supreme Verdict is consistent. Opening with Terminus unless the other 6 are really good is usually a mulligan. You can run the risk of a turn 4 Boros Charm, but if you see a RW player keeping 2+ mana open on turn 4 it can be a little obvious what the game plan is and play around it.

Blind Obedience is not just for haste creature's. The extort mechanic will allow you to claw your way out of a loss. There have been games I had no business in, but thanks to that card I have come back, make note when your scratch pad has 20+ cross-off's instead of 7-10 :).

I've been toying with UW control and it seem's to have a better aggro match over the Esper variant. Maybe it is just me, but with Esper it feel's too inconsistent and constantly needs to hit UU, WW, & sometimes BB. Even with a mana base of 10 shocks I stumble more on land than I would like. It very well could be the MB 3 Rhox Faithmender, 2 Blind Obedience, 4 Sphinx's Revelation, & 1 Elixir of Immortality gaining a million but I am at a higher life total turn 4 when I wipe then with Esper.

Here is what I am currently running for reference:

I do agree on Extort. It is going to be the deciding factor in an aggro match. It's a really good feeling knowing you're not just dead to a topdeck searing spear/boros charm and it is easy for them to get us in range, the problem they run into is needing that last bit of reach. I am wanting to go with 4 Jace mb (probably a 2/2 split of AoT and MA). Devour Flesh has replaced Ultimate Price as a 3 of in my list with 4 azorius charm, 4 Terminus and 3 Supreme Verdict. I think I will add some number for Liliana of The Veil (2) as edict effect's are becoming more and more favorable thanks to boros charm. Depending on how heavy i get into black with 4x Watery Grave/4x Godless Shrine and a small number for swamp's, mutilate might become favorable over Supreme Verdict. Even with 3 Swamp's on board with a mutilate is often times enough to clear a board and gets around indestructible.

Really looking froward to the next few weeks and see how this meta will evolve.

I have been toying with An Esper variant (pet color's to me personally). I also run a U/W/R version, but that's for a different topic (assuming U/b/x)

Here is what I have come up with so far:



I have been back and forth about 21/22 land, but for now the base has worked well for me.

24 Inst/Sorc ensures delver flip's, even without dimir charm (this is an added bonus). Cavern of Souls can not possibly fit in a deck with 2 moorland haunt and 21/22 land in a 3 color deck, its too greedy.

Hands of binding is an insane tempo card, taps multiple threats when it comes down and keeps 1 down after. I keep thinking about wanting dispel mb, not too sure yet. Opinion's? Question's? Share

Quote from Damaja

I also want to get this out of the way Devour Flesh vs Tribute to Hunger ....... I see the argument for it being faster but the life gain FOR US from Tribute to Hunger is what we need. I can't count how many times that life gain has saved me and besides how often do you actually need a T2 sac effect anyways? I thought people are over thinking this vs matchup. I "still" think Tribute to Hunger is the way to go.

I think Devour Flesh will see more play than Tribute to Hunger because of the 1B cost. As a control deck I don't really care what my opponent's life is, I will grind them out. I will agree that us gaining incremental life is relevant, but that extra source of mana can be much more relevant, especially turn 2-6. Turn 3 tribute to hunger v aggro is less than optimal when they are swinging with 3+ dude's when I can Devour Flesh & Rapid Hybridization in the same turn. I am really surprised it has not been brought up much in this thread. Yes it give's them another dude to attack with, but it can buy us another possible turn or 2, which is often exactly what we need to get to into wrath territory.

Farseek really help's fuse Bant and Esper. It's something I have been running for a few week's now with success. Adding Watery Gave and Godless Shrine will give it the perfect mana base. With Gatecrash, here is something similar to what i will be toying with.




I can't help but think disipate will go up in number, even possibly to the mainboard due at least to Skullcrack & Boros Charm. I want Blind Obedience to come up in number, but in the SB for now. It gives us heightened stall ability, especially when paired with Azorius Charm to bounce when they do attack. Thoughts?

Here is something I have been looking at for post Gatecrash:



I am going to throw out that I assume Dispel will soon become a mb answer for Boros Charm and Skullcrak as they will get out of hand. Azorius Charm should without question be a 3-4 of as it deals with Aggro easily. I am looking to open a few spots for Blind Obedience as a hasted boros deck will be coming.

I've been playing a Bant control list with R splash in place of B for Kessig Wolf Run. Nephalia Drownyard is a card I enjoyed, but Elixir of Immortality is everywhere in the control mirror.



I don't know weather I want the 1 of SB Resotration Angel or Drogskol Reaver to be a Sigarda, Host of Herons or not, but it is still something I am considering.

Thought's??

Quote from Damaja

I really need to stir up discussion on the RDW and B/R Aggro matchups because imo this is the hardest matchup to play against. In my last event my only losses were to a RDW and a B/R Aggro. Everything else was actually not that hard to beat. Lets get some input on this guys because Saturday I have a SCG-IQ to go to and I am taking my Esper build listed above.

This is a rough matchup without a doubt. I am moving this week and really gotta cram it in so not much testing, but from watching a lot of video's online Rhox Faithmender is a house vs. aggro. We don't have access to etb lifegain like Huntmaster of the Fells, Thragtusk, and Centaur Healer but our other form's of lifegain are usually enough to really bring us back v aggro.

The early game is all about slowing their tempo down (we are not a tempo deck, but we have to play the tempo game to get to a point of a sweeper). From my list I am looking to open with a few land and a good # of the following vs aggro:
1 Elixer of Immortality
3 Augur of Bolas
3 Azorius Charm
4 Lingering Souls
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Jace, Arcitect of Thought
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Sphinx's Revelation

The rest is very situational and some thing's I would board out v aggro:
-2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
-2 Dissipate
-2 Forbidden Alchemy
+2 Curse of Death's Hold
+2 Feeling of Dread
+2 Rhox Faithmender

Don't be victim to land screw - mulligan aggressively v aggro. We are really weak to Knight of Infamy and your only hope to survive against it outside of a wipe or Ultimate Price is Augur of Bolas and a Vampire Token, when you can deal with a knight, deal with it! In this matchup Terminus just wont do. We can hope to luck draw it, seeing it in an opener for me is a big consideration to mull. If I can hit 6 land and still be alive I don't think I would want to use it anyway when I can just use Supreme Verdict & Augur of Bolas.

Quote from Senshi

Aukland's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Instant (16): 1x Ultimate Price 1x Cyclonic Rift 1x Sphinx's Revelation 2x Think Twice 3x Dissipate 3x Forbidden Alchemy 3x Azorius Charm 2x Feeling of Dread Sorcery (9): 2x Supreme Verdict 3x Terminus 4x Lingering Souls Planeswalker (7): 2x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad 3x Jace, Architect of Thought	Enchantment (3): 3x Detention Sphere Land (25): 4x Hallowed Fountain 4x Glacial Fortress 4x Isolated Chapel 4x Drowned Catacomb 2x Nephalia Drownyard 1x Vault of the Archangel 1x Swamp 2x Plains 3x Island	Sideboard (15): 2x Rest in Peace 1x Oblivion Ring 2x Duress 1x Jace, Memory Adept 2x Liliana of the Veil 1x Ultimate Price 2x Feeling of Dread 2x Curse of Death's Hold 2x Witchbane Orb

The sideboard is a mess and I really do need help with it.

Cards that are questionable-
1. Negate is a card that I have run before. It's one mana less than Dissipate and there have been multiple situations where I would have rather drawn that than Dissipate. Though, I believe it to be more of a sideboard card as it's more useful against Control decks and less useful against creature-heavy decks.

2. Oblivion Ring, I feel could be a 1- of in Esper Control; 2 Detention Sphere and 1 Oblivion Ring. The reason for this is so that we can get rid of Detention Sphere in the first matchup against other control decks with U/W (or U/W/x).

3. Thought Scour rather than Think Twice. The only reason I say this is because of Tamiyo's ultimate. With a Thought Scour in hand it could quickly become a win-con.

4. Feeling of Dread. 2 of these in the MB has done nothing but justice for me, I almost always find a use for these and they have saved me multiple times.

5. Cyclonic Rift, I'm very conflicted on this card. While it's overload can be devastating versus a variety of decks, early game I usually just wish it was an Azorius Charm

6. Vault of the Archangel has put pressure on my opponents in quite a few games. Not so much the lifelink (though it helps), but the deathtouch is the real threat here.

Some constructive criticism on the deck and (most importantly) the SB, would be appreciated!

I noticed you're running 3 Detention Sphere MB, have you considered going a 2/1 D.sphere/O-Ring split main? This would free up a slot in the SB for anything else you are considering. Sundering Growth side help's with D.Sphere war's and other troublesome enchantment's (like an opposing CoDH).

The questionable SB card's for me are 2 Duress and 2 Liliana of the Veil. It is a lot to ask for double B in the early turn's, which you really want her to come out. She is otherwise a dead card in hand until you get BB online. I feel the same go's for Duress, although there is a decent chance you will have B up by T3-4 to rip anything really annoying (PW, Door, Omni, Counter, etc). I guess I am wanting to open with Duress and my one of Swamp for it to really be effective (might get better use out of these being Negate).

Quote from Fanne

Lone Revenant is for the creature light Matchups and to have a diversety of threads against Slaughtergames.

As we tend to play zero to 2 creatures (despite Tokens) dedicated Spotremoval such as Price, Slip, Charms and to a lesser extend Sweeper are useless against us.
In the board games where the opp. boards out the sweepers (jund boarding out mortars eg.) Revenant shines as they cant handle him while we can control their tusks, huntmasters etc.

And to resolve curse is bonkers. I had one game online where i was against bant:
His EoT. I try'ed sphinx which he countered and resolves his own. (I wanted to bait exactly that). I untap, play curse, he reads and scoops though he had 7 cards and i only one left.

I am really looking forward to giving Curse of Echoes a try. I might consider giving it a try against Rx aggro deck's as well, although it may just be too slow against them, we will see.

Quote from Fanne

in this deck im not a fan of pike + scour.

First You dont run 4 Snaps so natural flashback on Cards (Souls, Alchemy) is your only hope to get value out of the cards you milled.

And pike is meh. I see the point playing it as it means another wincon but with Scour you dedicate to much into it i think. The Reason behind this thoughtprocess is: If you have stabilizied you should win without pike: Planeswalker X + Y or Souls or Drownyard. If you havent stabilizied Pike is just a dead card. The thing is you dont need Creatures to preasure your Opponent. The Walkers, Drownyard or Tokens + Vault is more than enough in a controlled Situation.

And in Your list give 2 Cards a try: Curse of Echoes and Lone Revenant ;).

Its funny to see how Jund, Flash or Bant conceed to one of those cards.

I'll give the update a try with -1 Runechanter's Pike -2 Thought Scour (even thought i like this with a Tam Embelem). +1 Elixer of Immortality +2 Think Twice (not sure about it, but willing to try).

The Elixer is good against both the control mirror & aggro. Control list's in general as of late have been using these MB to combat both the mentioned type's. It also help's the deck out as it is very easy to draw down to 10 or fewer left in deck.

Quote from arise_shine

In the right kind of deck (lots of instants/sorceries in the 'yard, flash creatures), Pike can just win out of nowhere. It turns tokens into great blockers, too. But, most of those tokens are 1-toughness, which makes the susceptible to just about every removal in the format. And of course on a Sorin token, the lifelink can come in really handy.

I've been noticing the Curse of Echoes in some sideboards. It actually seems pretty good right now. Revelations, Bonfires, counter spells, even simple cantrips. I'm very intrigued.

What about Lone Revenant, though? Do you just wait until after you sweep to drop it?

I've really enjoyed Pike on a vampire token to help stabilize and win game's I had no business in (it really does feel dirty strapping it on and turning sidway's or keeping back for block's and gaining a butt load of life)

Most of the time, however, a top deck Pike v aggro with no threat's on board is very underwhelming, the Elixer may help out to gain some needed life (great thing's also happen with Faithmender).

I think the Lone Revenant would be fighting for a spot with Drogskol Reaver as it is essentially another bomb that we hold back until we are in a good commanding position.