MTG Salvation

Didn't read all 10 pages- sorry if someone already said this but...

Benalish Hero and gang?

BANDING FTW!

Quote from Mr.C

You know what would be funny? If they did something like this:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=430051

This is a possibility.

1. Market research (us) has shown we will buy it (I will- I play with gold bordered cards.)

2. It includes sleeves. Maybe the backs are marked too?

3. If wizards cooked this up last minute, then they may want to move cautiously.

4. I could also see a mixture of cards like Ooze, flusterstorm, command tower etc in normal version, and silver or gold bordered or otherwise marked cards with reprints of you name it.

Wow. Ponder and preordain... I guess we will have to start using sleight of hand...

Splinter Twin/exarch is still alive, especially with the new white guy from Inn that untaps all when it comes in...

I think all of these are justified, but there are some elephants in the room... I think if they are going to ban MM, they should ban FoW. I think if they ban Ponder and PO, they should ban Tarmogoyf...

But I'd prefer if they unbanned most of those.

What do you think banning post will do to the value of Vesuva?

Despite my thread about DFC's- I for one am excited about innistrad from pretty much all angles.

Nothing "broken" on it's own, some good cards, and as always some lame ones- but nothing as bad as Defensive Stance

Super cool flavor- I'm getting tired of Phyrexians, Mirrodin, Gerrard and the Weatherlight, and even Dominaria in general. Not too excited about heading back to Ravnica either, but I respect the balance between nostalgia and new stuff.

Definitely a top-down design, which will make for some interesting game play and interactions once the set has been in the hands of the masses for a minute, especially in limited...

For those of you who are complaining about MTG visiting a common theme and not doing their own thing...

Arabian Nights
Kamigawa
Mirage (sorta)

I personally think the whole plot in Zendikar was a little forced, and the world is still not quite cohesive in my head... I'm looking forward to another set that will cover familiar themes and put them in magic form. I'll keep holding my breath for that Walker, Texas Ranger set...

And finally, there will always be a bunch of negative nancys that run around saying the set sucks and it's the end of MTG. Either buy their cards a rock bottom prices when they quit, or stock up so when Snapcaster Mage and the new red Yawgmoth's Will skyrocket in price, you can trade it to them at a premium, and tell them how you got it at the prerelease.

Ok- for starters,

Anyone who is suggesting that I am an idiot or OCD or whatever because they didn't read my original post, while addressing me as the original poster, insinuating that they did read the original post, should try to understand what I wrote before posting.

I'm not going to quit over 20 cards. I just really don't like it. The cards might be fun, and it will make for some interesting drafts and gameplay, WHEN IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY. I would never quit magic. I might sit out for a while, or be a pain about certain things, like people not using proper sleeves, or proxying a checklist card (because you know it's gonna happen) - You can bet I'll be that guy who calls a judge when I can see your DFC through the sleeves, or you try to use a basic land instead of a checklist card, or if your checklist card is marked ambiguously. (sorry, call me a jerk, but if you wanna play with fire...)

I'm just disappointed that this is the avenue they've chosen. I think that it's too much of a hassle, and probably could have been implemented better. I'd rather see token cards, or have that 10% chance of both not being in packs, with an exception made for drafts (see MaRo's article)

And for those of you who say this is about the same complexity as using tokens, you're dead wrong. Can you shuffle a bottle cap into your library? Do you need to carry specific items around to use tokens? If a token is easily identifiable, and is easy to tell when it is tapped or not, it's ok. A DFC requires an opaque backed sleeve, or a checklist card. You don't need a 2/2 zombie token card to signify a 2/2 zombie on the field. You can use whatever's lying around. If you're gonna be that guy who makes 20 different kinds of tokens, paper and pencil will suffice.

I think the main point of my mentioning how long I've been playing is that I have been rolling with punches for years. I've watched the game change LOTS of times. It's been cool. Sometimes it's not what I like, but then it comes around to surprise me. I really do like Innistrad so far- the art is amazing, and the theme is WAY overdue. Maybe if we hadn't spent so much time following Gerrard and the Weatherlight around we'd have seen this sooner. I'm just really bummed that they broke this major tenet as part of a set, one that will affect drafts, and make casual playing a little frustrating at times.

I play primarily casual, and, call me a princess, but I like card backs to be the same. Everyone has sat across from that guy with a super wrecked-up sol ring that you can see coming in the deck, but what are you going to say to the guy with DFC's in his deck, unsleeved?

Long story short, I'm not quitting, just complaining. I was simply looking to the MTG community to see if this was something I felt alone, or if it was something others were disliking.

That said, I almost like the idea of a set that is 50% or more DFC's, with the sides not necessarily matching the backs each time... that could make for some interesting magic.

On that note, does anyone think there are odds of having an error card that would have the wrong back i.e. Mayor of Avabruck with Garruk on the back? I'd be interested in that...

Love you guys, and like someone said above, this has been a very civil and productive conversation for the most part... I may not post often, but I've been lurking for a few years, and this has been a good read. Thanks for weighing in, all.

Quote from zlforster

I've been playing since Mirrodin, which isn't forever, but longer than most I know. I like the DFC's they're interesting to me, both mechanically and visually. I proxied (sorry Aktuba) out werewolves and they were a blast to play.

This is all coming from a Spike/Vorthos (yes, we do in fact exist) so as long as the cards either are good for standard and/or are fun flavorfully, I'm ok with it.

BTW what is everyone else's player profiles? I'm interested to know the demographics of the ones who don't like DFCs.

I consider myself to be a spike/vorthos, emphasis on the vorthos- but I can't deny my timmy side either...

Quote from Cows on Harvard

Aktuba, I see where you are coming from, and I do not blame you for frustration. I myself, am a newbie. Not that I do not know how to play the game, I have come to learn how to play the game very well from when I started October of 2010. Being a newbie, this is the first drastic change I am expieriencing in card design and how you play the game of magic.

Another thing I understand is that you are a veteran, and that when you have been around something for so long, you hate to see it change. For me, the only thing I can relate with drastic change is college, where I have just started my freshman year at my university and I am not liking it at first because it is such a drastic change. But I am sure that you know that this discomfort will not last forever for me, since if you have been playing Magic since 1994 you have probably been in college already. I also know that this discomfort will dissapear in a little while.

What I'm trying to get at is give the flip cards a chance. They may be terrible, or the may be great, or they may be medicore. We don't know yet, and we will never know if we just shun them away before we can get a chance to hold them in our hands.

I, a complete stranger to you, am asking you to not quit just because of a new type of card. If you have been playing since the start, then you obviously have some sort of love for the game, and it is never good to abandon something you love.

I've learned not to quit anymore - First time I quit I sold 20 dual lands for $100, and a tolarian academy for 7. Second time I quit was also an epic fail... It's just frustrating... And there will be kids who get into those DFC's... But man... the CARD BACKS!!!! The old 52 card playing card deck with MTG backs was mind blowing enough for me... this is just hurtful...

Quote from saintskeith

theyre doing it on less than 20 cards in one set, and probably no more than 50 in total in the block

if you dont like them, dont play with them
the cards themselves are rather intuitive if you just read up on the rules
they all flip and unflip the exact same ways, so i dont see how that is frustrating, can you explain?

It's annoying that you have to use proxies or sleeves to play with. This loosens the restrictions on what one can do with proxies and sleeves, for one, and also the ability to simply shuffle up cards and play with no proxies or sleeves. It also makes things confusing for beginners. Despite the fact that it will make up less than 10% of a set, it's still out there. I just find it annoying. One of the major things that SAVED magic was keeping the backs of the expansion cards the same, rather than changing them (see the story of Arabian Nights- the backs were originally supposed to look like the packs- pink... :cool2:)

On the simplest level- it's a new layer of complexity that is problematic. On the level of someone who has been playing for a long time, it just bugs the crap out of me that there are now cards with no real "back".

EDIT: I truly hope they're only here for a block, and I'd be crazy to hope it's only one set... But knowing Wizards and MaRo, they don't do ANYTHING once, no matter how much of an abomination it is on it's first incarnation- Buyback? Storm? They even tried to bastardize affinity, which will be biting asses in Modern before long...

I have been playing magic since 1994, and have quit a couple times- always coming back (obviously)- each time because the game had changed drastically. The first was when Urza's Saga was released- I won a box in a T2 tournament, and realized that the cards were so powerful I'd have to spend a fortune trying to keep up. Mirrodin was the second exodus, when artifacts had been raised to a level of importance and color pie busting that I'd seen as egregious. I'm also the guy who refuses to play with someone who wants to use proxies for cards they don't own, and is annoyed by proxies for cards they do own.

Innistrad, however, has broken a major tenet of the game- the card backs. As ugly as the old deckmaster card backs have been for the last 18 years, We've grown accustomed to them. There's been talk of a 6th color, and Barry's land, but I'd welcome those two ideas long before I would welcome DFC's. I know change is an important part of keeping any game alive, but I simply see this as being too frustrating and annoying to be ok.

I know I'm not the first to post on this, so mods- let me be clear. The point of this thread is to find out what others think with regards to the following- will you quit magic over this? Will you shy away from playing people who use DFC's? (which I will probably do) Or will you embrace the new, and roll with the punches?

This shakes me at my core, and has made me take a step back from magic.

Did anyone else notice her mentioning that he had "infiltrated" his way into dates with some of her okcupid acquaintances?

1. What kind of winner is this chick who has many friends dating on okcupid?

2. Maybe this is the cause of the burn- Jon seems like a bit of a player. (pun intended)

Jealous woman. Go Jon. Any publicity is good publicity.

Throw a possessed portal in there, and you're the belle of the ball.

Rats + Thrumming Stone = Funny for about 5 minutes. Not a good deck though. Even outside of EDH. If you lose to this more than once (Either because you weren't ready for it, or your opponent got lucky) get the guys decklist and send it to me, or punch yourself in the face, whichever seems easier.

A long long time ago, someone affiliated with Jesus (the malaligned side) objected to magic the gathering on the whole because of basically two cards (that they could read)... Unholy Strength, and Lord of the Pit. Wizards responded by removing the pentagram from the background of Unholy Strength, and discontinuing all Devils, Demons, and things demonic... (see demonic tutor, contract from below, demonic attorney) thus the end of Ante, and the best creature in magic, Lord of the Pit.

But in all seriousness, LOTP was a bomb in his day, especially with breeding pit, right up there with force of nature + COP green, and Shivan Dragon. The anti- demon thing must've stuck. A healthy fear of evangelists is good in the USA.

I'm still waiting for

3BB
Barney the Demon
Creature- Demon
Flying, Infect, Protection from Angels, Spirits, and half-truths
5/6


Until then, let it be known that evangelists have had their permanent effect on MTG.

As someone who has seen Voidslime go from $25 to $5, Force of Will go from $20 to $5 to $100, and dual lands rise about $4 a year, and won't trade any of those cards for nothing (and numerous other ones) I completely respect drawing on your own cards, especially if you know you will never trade them.

I've known for 17 years that I like magic, and have been toting the same Wrath of God, Savannah, and Savannah Lions since I opened them in my Revised starter deck... Won't be trading those, EVER. I think I'm going to go draw on them with a sharpie now. Seriously. No. Not internet sarcasm. Seriously.

Draw on your cards, but only if you love them. That's how you know they're yours. (and as someone pointed out, way less likely to get stolen)

I don't know about a "free" counter, but I could see them printing one that costs UUP/U