The Gnaw to the Bone is a meta call, so that's up to you. Remember that the dredgers are combo with Faithless Looting, so when you cast it on T2/or flashback T3, you can dredge 8-10 cards, which is very common for me and not just a fluke. Otherwise, just play test removal and see what you think
So you would say that proper thing to do (Usually,) with Faithless Looting is to dredge instead of draw, if possible? I usually don't, but I'll be sure to try it some time soon.
I have stated before that I think Bridge from Below and Necromancer's Stockpile are too inconsistent and mana intensive for what we're trying to do. Others agree too. Life from the Loam with 9 diggers is a waste of a slot. You can always grab a land from Salvage or keep one with Looting. Bolts are more consistent than Axe, so I would change them and dump the last Lightning Axe. I believe nine dig cards is too many. Combined with Lotleth Troll, you have enough enablers and not enough creatures. Dump the Burning Inquiry. I find myself playing more consistent with running 3 Grisly Salvage instead of 4 because statistically, it just works better and I'm sure others can also say that 4 is too many. Take the card slots I took out and devote them to creatures (Golgari Thug, Stinkweed Imp, etc). That's the dredge package that makes Dredgevine work (you should have 5-6 of these two in any combination you seem fit. Remember Imp is removal with Deathtouch).
Wowza, lots of response!
Yeah, I was reading the latest batch of stuff on Bridge from Below and Necromancer's Stockpile. They don't seem worth it upon reflection. I still might try Stockpile to be sure, but definitely not many. You're right, I rarely cast Life from the Loam and Burning Inquiry kind of sucks. I actually really like Axe. Early game I use it to dump stuff to the 'yard while taking out their dorks. And it usually can kill Goyf which is nice. I will probably swap the numbers up between the two, though. I can try 3 Salvage as opposed to 4. It's just a numbers thing, right? (In the fifteen cards you reveal with the first three, you likely hit the fourth at some point.) As I said above, I found the dredgers really slow. I never wanted to cast Golgari Thug and Stinkweed Imp just rarely felt worth it. I might test with them in again, but I'm skeptical.
Any comments on the sideboard? Also, I was thinking about a single Gnaw to the Bone in the main, as I often find that I'm just slightly too slow against some decks and I think it would give more time and help with some matchups (Burn, Scapeshift, most Aggro,)
I feel like I'm often wanting some more cards like Grisly Salvage
You could add some dredgers like Stinkweed Imp or Golgari Thug which can also help with getting Vengevines out of the yard since you can cast them after dredging.
I had a few in for a bit, and I thought they were too slow with not enough impact. Without a reliable way to sacrifice Thug, I worry that it won't get into the 'yard enough, and Stinkweed just seemed to sit around. There were always better things to cast for 3 mana, and when it was dead I rarely wanted to dredge it because I'd rather get more gas. Salvage turns into gas, while Stinkweed may turn into a Vengevine or Bloodghast, but there's no guarantee.
Alright, so I have started playing Dredgevine online. It's been relatively successful so far. It is much more resistant to graveyard hate than I was lead to believe, which was nice. (I say this, it may actually be that there is just less hate right now.)
It's a pretty traditional list, I believe. I got bits from the first post of this thread (Outdated, I know,), Frank Lepore's article that he did on it back in February (Also outdated,), and a few comments from skimming this thread. It works fairly well, I think I've won more than I've lost since I started using it. I think that the sideboard needs some work, and I feel like I'm often wanting some more cards like Grisly Salvage. It also can have trouble actually getting Vengevines out of the 'yard sometimes, but that just be the way I play.
While I am sad to see her go, the implications it has for Wizard's stance on letting beloved characters die for solid story reasons makes me very happy. Perhaps we can now have some tensions when planeswalkers fight, as I have a tendency to just assume that somehow they will make it out alive.
Maro's little talk on the mechanics was very excitement-inducing for me.
Dethrone is primary in Red, and secondary in Blue.
Will of the Council is primary in White, secondary in Blue.
Parlay is (only?) Green and White, presumably an equal amount.
I just like how much sense that all makes. Dethrone is aggressive and a bit spiteful, Red is the obvious fit. Will of the Council has that by-the-books democratic feels, so White.
But both can also be used in a sneakier, schemey political way, (especially given this set) so Blue also gets in on both. And the most group-centered colors get Parlay. Excellent design work.
I'm constructing all kinds of fantasy scenarios in my head already.
What if the dragon artwork we saw for the boosters is a Dethrone rare/mythic that can do nasty stuff with the counters?
Maybe Muzzio of the Great Hat is the mono-colored Legendary, in White, and he has Will of the Council on him so that EDH players have a reason to get some Brago's Representatives as well?
Leaving our still-unnamed trollish guy to be the resident evil-color-pairing Legend like BR to counteract the three White-aligned ones, probably with a really nasty anti-politics effect...
Will White get some sinisterly bureaucratic ways to (ab)use Parlay? Unconventionally political variants on Red damage-dealing to interact with Dethrone? Vote-rigging/altering in Blue? More Mercadian Masques reprints?!
All this and more will be revealed... Not Soon Enough For My Tastes.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I think that Marchesa is the "resident evil-color-pairing legend." Also, BR is not necessarily evil.
One thing that bothers me is that it does not seem like Black gets to be primary or even secondary in any of the new abilities. They said they're bringing back Multikicker, Landcycling, and Morbid on the reprinted cards, so I assume that Black gets to be primary in Morbid, but still . . . It seems like such a neat fit for Dethrone . . .
I suppose they re wroded it so that you can't do the Oblivion ring trick, which is weird because they just did a functional reprint of Oblivion ring.
Not a functional reprint, it's the "fixed" version with the new wording. We will be seeing Banishing Light for a good long while now, I would say.
As for Brain Maggot, seems decent. Mesmeric Fiend gets played in some formats from what I know (Some formats being Pauper,) and Tidehollow Sculler was definitely good.
This card doesn't seem very flavorful. Yay a snake lady that makes snakes. I thought she was supposed to be the god of malady and mending. I feel like the snakes should have had deathtouch and lifelink maybe that would be too good but it would at least be flavorful.
This. I don't know about power level, even if I think she is better than she looks at first sight. But flavorwise, I find her ability quite uninspired for a God wich is all about about the borderline between life/cure and death/poison. When you pray for healing, you don't want to die and be resurected as a shiny snake, IMO.
In many ancient cultures, including Greece, snakes were viewed as sources of both life and death. The latter is obvious, as their venom could kill, but the former is a little more elusive. It was due to the fact that, before shedding their skin, snakes become very, very still and are discolored. They looked like they had died one day and come back to life the next day, since by then they had shed their skin and were back to normal.
Unfortunately most people do not know this and only think of snakes being associated with death. Since Wizard's has said that you have to play to what people expect and not what is the truth, I think that they could have worked the "cure" part of Pharika in a little more.
Because Burning-Tree Emissary, Experiment One, Boros Charm, Boros Reckoner, Nightveil Specter, Domri Rade, Thespian's Stage, Obzedat Ghost Council, and the enemy colored shocklands didn't do anything in Standard, Modern, or Legacy at all. And Thalia, Lingering Souls, Faithless Looting, and Huntmaster of the Fells obviously never saw any play. Or Jace the Mind Sculptor, Stoneforge Mystic, and the manlands. Or Noble Hierarch. Or Bitterblossom and Vendilion Clique. Or Damnation and Simian Spirit Guide. And those aren't even complete lists. I can keep this going at least until Planeshift and probably until before they had actual blocks.
At least for both Gatecrash and Dark Ascension, many, many people complained that the sets were super weak when they first came out. You also missed Mirrodin Besieged.
He'll be black-green or mono-green. He's too tied to green to not include it, but as Doug said they have realized that the past few printings and the ambiguous end to his story on Innistrad have confuddled the idea that he is still cursed. During the fight depicted in Triumph of Cruelty and Triumph of Ferocity he nearly got Liliana, but the curse caused him to have a spasm or something, giving her the upper hand. He managed to kill all of here zombie friends, but he was so weakened that he succumbed to the curse and madness. When Avacyn cast her spell that turned the werewolves into the wolfir, it also helped to heal Garruk and bring him back from the edge of death. He went to seek out the source of this spell to see if it could cure him entirely, and that's where we were left.
In short, still sick, but still alive. Probably green-black in my mind, since those plants do rot and die around him . . . Can't say that I would not find that interesting.
It's based off of Gavin Verhey's list from his article on the mothership. The sideboard is kind of a mess, but as I tend to lean more towards the all-in combo version, I don't find I need to switch much out. The Overgrowths come in if they have a ton of removal for my early mana dorks, and the Jorage Treespeakers come in if they can deal with my Fertile Grounds easily. Ranger's Guile has never been brought in, but is theoretically there to help with the removal match-ups.
Any advice would be very much appreciated. I've seen people starting to use Wistful Selkie which seemed interesting. I'm also wondering about using things like Primal Command and Summoning Pact. I'm loathe to use cards that don't add devotion/can be played with Genesis Wave, but they seem to be quite powerful.
So you would say that proper thing to do (Usually,) with Faithless Looting is to dredge instead of draw, if possible? I usually don't, but I'll be sure to try it some time soon.
Wowza, lots of response!
Yeah, I was reading the latest batch of stuff on Bridge from Below and Necromancer's Stockpile. They don't seem worth it upon reflection. I still might try Stockpile to be sure, but definitely not many. You're right, I rarely cast Life from the Loam and Burning Inquiry kind of sucks. I actually really like Axe. Early game I use it to dump stuff to the 'yard while taking out their dorks. And it usually can kill Goyf which is nice. I will probably swap the numbers up between the two, though. I can try 3 Salvage as opposed to 4. It's just a numbers thing, right? (In the fifteen cards you reveal with the first three, you likely hit the fourth at some point.) As I said above, I found the dredgers really slow. I never wanted to cast Golgari Thug and Stinkweed Imp just rarely felt worth it. I might test with them in again, but I'm skeptical.
Any comments on the sideboard? Also, I was thinking about a single Gnaw to the Bone in the main, as I often find that I'm just slightly too slow against some decks and I think it would give more time and help with some matchups (Burn, Scapeshift, most Aggro,)
I had a few in for a bit, and I thought they were too slow with not enough impact. Without a reliable way to sacrifice Thug, I worry that it won't get into the 'yard enough, and Stinkweed just seemed to sit around. There were always better things to cast for 3 mana, and when it was dead I rarely wanted to dredge it because I'd rather get more gas. Salvage turns into gas, while Stinkweed may turn into a Vengevine or Bloodghast, but there's no guarantee.
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Bloodghast
1x Dregscape Zombie
4x Gravecrawler
4x Lotleth Troll
1x Tymaret, the Murder King
4x Vengevine
Sorceries
1x Burning Inquiry
4x Faithless Looting
1x Life from the Loam
Instants
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Grisly Salvage
3x Lightning Axe
2x Lightning Bolt
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Blood Crypt
2x Copperline Gorge
1x Forest
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacomb
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Darkblast
1x Dismember
1x Golgari Charm
2x Pithing Needle
2x Rakdos Charm
4x Thoughtseize
It's a pretty traditional list, I believe. I got bits from the first post of this thread (Outdated, I know,), Frank Lepore's article that he did on it back in February (Also outdated,), and a few comments from skimming this thread. It works fairly well, I think I've won more than I've lost since I started using it. I think that the sideboard needs some work, and I feel like I'm often wanting some more cards like Grisly Salvage. It also can have trouble actually getting Vengevines out of the 'yard sometimes, but that just be the way I play.
Any comments? Questions? I too have been thinking about trying Bridge from Below and Necromancer's Stockpile.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I think that Marchesa is the "resident evil-color-pairing legend." Also, BR is not necessarily evil.
One thing that bothers me is that it does not seem like Black gets to be primary or even secondary in any of the new abilities. They said they're bringing back Multikicker, Landcycling, and Morbid on the reprinted cards, so I assume that Black gets to be primary in Morbid, but still . . . It seems like such a neat fit for Dethrone . . .
It is 8 power divided among four hastey bodies. I think Army of the Damned is way splashier, but it's definitely much better than Goblin Rally.
Not a functional reprint, it's the "fixed" version with the new wording. We will be seeing Banishing Light for a good long while now, I would say.
As for Brain Maggot, seems decent. Mesmeric Fiend gets played in some formats from what I know (Some formats being Pauper,) and Tidehollow Sculler was definitely good.
In many ancient cultures, including Greece, snakes were viewed as sources of both life and death. The latter is obvious, as their venom could kill, but the former is a little more elusive. It was due to the fact that, before shedding their skin, snakes become very, very still and are discolored. They looked like they had died one day and come back to life the next day, since by then they had shed their skin and were back to normal.
Unfortunately most people do not know this and only think of snakes being associated with death. Since Wizard's has said that you have to play to what people expect and not what is the truth, I think that they could have worked the "cure" part of Pharika in a little more.
At least for both Gatecrash and Dark Ascension, many, many people complained that the sets were super weak when they first came out. You also missed Mirrodin Besieged.
In short, still sick, but still alive. Probably green-black in my mind, since those plants do rot and die around him . . . Can't say that I would not find that interesting.
14 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nix
1 Stomping Ground
Accelerators
4 Arbor Elf
3 Llanowar Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Fertile Ground
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Harmonize
2 Regal Force
WinCons
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Primeval Titan
4 Genesis Wave
4 Joraga Treespeaker
4 Ranger's Guile
2 Elvish Visionary
4 Overgrowth
1 Harmonize
It's based off of Gavin Verhey's list from his article on the mothership. The sideboard is kind of a mess, but as I tend to lean more towards the all-in combo version, I don't find I need to switch much out. The Overgrowths come in if they have a ton of removal for my early mana dorks, and the Jorage Treespeakers come in if they can deal with my Fertile Grounds easily. Ranger's Guile has never been brought in, but is theoretically there to help with the removal match-ups.
Any advice would be very much appreciated. I've seen people starting to use Wistful Selkie which seemed interesting. I'm also wondering about using things like Primal Command and Summoning Pact. I'm loathe to use cards that don't add devotion/can be played with Genesis Wave, but they seem to be quite powerful.
Suggestions?