I've been on "Team Aggro" for a while - look at the first page for instance. I admit I tried combo for a while, but it was so brittle as to be pointless. Anyway, Garruk is never a dead draw, trust me. And Creeping Mold is better than you think - for 4 mana you can crack any land, any artifact, or any enchantment. Try it, really. I've played this deck a long time, and one thing it does need other than butt loads of Elves is a way to hit with them before the **** comes down, but the deck can't be devoted to it. The Mold has ended up as tech against some decks, and people really don't see it coming.
I stated a long time ago that CM was some mean tech in certain situations. I also used it, to some success, but found I liked more technical cards in my SB like Elvish Hexhunter (enters the red zone, cost G, and pops enchantments) better. I tried it for a while and decided that since I played too much of a tight list already, that I could not fit it in my board.
I flopped from the combo version to a straight aggro deck before they wiped the forums. I played the Muesings list until my eyes bled, and was just unsatisfied. He was lucky, plain and simple. For us unlucky people however you can't pull it off all the time. So I made my aggro version that I posted until I stopped playing FNM entirely. I cut Overrun out of my 75, as it was previously in my board. I can honestly say I never missed it, since I never overextended.
still, the main issue remains... 1/1's make this deck run the way it does, nettle + heritage... maybe a workaround is needed, either forge-tender or mark of asylum....
or both even...
you need at the very least 2 turns to begin balling, and that is god hand, nettle, nettle, heritage, GLA and lands... so assuming nobody's stupid enough to empty their hands turn 2/3 right into a fallout/clasm... why not use at least 1 turn to set up the defense, tender is turn 1, mark turn 2... then ballout turn 3 without worrying about sweepers...
SB lapse of certainty for infest/wrath and you should be ok... i guess...
I think the best play with this deck is to do the least amount of plays. By this I mean that you should never be in a situation where you get blown out by Fallout/Clasm/Charm/***. You don't need to win in one turn and thinking this way will put you at a huge disadvantage as your racing for nothing.
I will put it this way, you can put enough pressure on an opponent by playing Heritage and two elves since they can only fathom what your hand holds. I've seen Heritage get blown up over beating face 5/5's when I held a Forest. The deck doesnt really need to work off of a crew of 1/1's, it can work off of tempo, and card advantage in the form of Primal Command/Wolf Skull Shaman or the insane versatility of Hunting Triad. This is speaking from experience.
Also, the white splash is now necessary. I used to say stacking lords did the trick. It still does but doesnt garuntee anything but your overextending. Is Forge Tender necessary? Maybe, but I'd rather have Mark of Asylum instead since it covers all. Speaking purley in my opinion, on all of this, I think G/W is the way to go now. Honestly.
But there is only a few months left to play this archetype. So live it up while you can, hell dust off a Muesings list and overextend to a T4.
I usually run, 22-24 with 25 the max on control decks for me. I ran elves with 15 all the way to 19 and back down to 13. Aggro can get away with it if your curve drops off at 3-4. Control is not so lucky.
I still toy with this deck from time to time and still stand by the fact that combo sucks. Thank you for joining "Team Aggro", I've been here for a while. Fun != Winning. (Debatable based on this decks actual viability, but my w/l ratio is more win by just bashing a lot.)
4/4 Imp/Liege line maindeck.
4/4 Primal Command/Triad line maindeck.
Ton of elves, 3 Regal Force, and some lands.
SB will ALWAYS have..
4 Guttural
4 Scattershot
7 Preference
I've considered 4/4 Brushland/GW Filter to support Mark of Asylum and Cavaliers if you see a lot of Fallouts.
You still don't need gimmicks; Banefire, Overrun, Garruk or any sort of dead draws. You just need elves, and the general knowledge of playing the deck.
Also..did..I..see.....Creeping Mold?
Man, I do believe someone bashed his head on his keyboard some months ago telling me that card was bad. Go figure?
They decide what is too much, literally. Also Boost text messaging services are terrible. Back when I was using no-contract services I tried out Boost and could not stand it. I would have problems with standard SMS messages and typically people would not get them. I ultimately used Virgin Mobile as it was cheaper, and way more efficient. I paid about as much as I pay for Tmobile now and got generally the same features minus some minutes.
Writing is like any other hobby. It will get steadily better, this includes lyricism, with the time you put into it. I would suggest you write it to the tune that you feel is best. It may or may not be good, but what matters is that you wrote it with your own feelings and thoughts.
If your no putting any instruments with it yet (Or wont be for a while) then you can continue to edit and update it as you progress skill wise. Either way you should keep it strictly as your own because it makes more sense and matters more if you write it. Seeking outside help is fine, but by them adding in lines or writing stuff for it loses you voice and emotion.
Just pointing out to all the people saying X won't be castable because X requires such and such colors, they are printing new duals in M10. Also, there are going to be more color fixing lands (Probably not as powerful as they are now) in the oncoming sets. I don't see how they could reason printing gold cards like crazy and then not giving ample mana bases to support them.
I'm not really picking up much, but looking at the now underpriced stuff and deciding if it is worth a purchase. I can't really think of much, but as I see good buys I'm going to pick them up. After seeing the next set I will probably have more of an idea of what will shape up after the rotations. Off the top of m head though, Ajani V, Ranger, and Knight of the White Orchard are dirt cheap and will see a good amount of play.
This thread is pretty ridiculous. It's really a question of how much has Magic taken away from your free time? Social life? Inadvertently your sex life? So forth.
Yes, Magic will bring you a ton of friends and social interaction with other guys (Note, dudes). But other then that it does not really help much beyond that. If you go pro, win some cash, get free flight/swag, and make a decent life by devoting your time to it then congratulations. I cannot count the amount of people I have made friends with because of Magic, but other than sucking my free time and at one point or another my money, it does not do much else. I guess it makes you smarter as well, but you have to be smart to play this game successfully anyway.
You are correct, it recurs like none other, and that does say something. I personally love creatures that can recur themselves as I've been playing variants of Buried Alive decks in casual more or less since the card was printed. I do not think the Worldheart is a wise choice for this deck due to the format. The simple fact remains that 5cc for a 4/4 creature is considered high for the current environment, and this format is also saturated with RFG spells. Now, if it was justUnmake or justPath to Exile or justOblivion Ring, I would say run it, but the fact is that all three of these cards see regular play in FNM and bigger events, on a regular basis. That's not even including the traditional removal spells that effect it, like Terror and Flame Javelin, which while won't solve the problem long term, will make you devote a large amount of your resources just to keep it out.
The fact is that I have tested it out, and it has never, ever, not even once, impressed me. It was always too much to bring out, was never useful when it was out, and I always had better things to spend WUBRG mana on each turn when it came to recursion. It might just be my meta, though, so if it is proving well for people in testing, then by all means run it. All I can say is that I don't agree with running it, I wouldn't recommend running it for the reasons I've stated, and I wouldn't personally run it in my own builds.
And again, it might just be my meta, but 3 Relics are pretty mainstay in sideboard in my area. I know I see it played at least once every FNM I go to, much like some people play Volcanic Fallouts maindeck in their red decks due to the meta. Bottom line is that the card (and Wheel of Sun and Moon, to a lesser extent), does see play, and it is a valid point about Worldheart recursion.
Considering this is not even a real deck, I won't get too devoted to my point. But the reality is that two Relic of Progenitus were the only graveyard hate cards to even see a sideboard at Kyoto. That has to tell you something, just ask Lark players if graveyard hate hurts them and how blank those cards become game two if people have them in the board. The deck doesn't win because of Lark, it wins because it's entire creature base generates more card advantage than you can shake a stick at.
Furthermore, think of the long game. People will not be running X Oring/X Path main since it's redundant (Most real decks also do not have the space). So typically there are 4 or so RFG cards in a single mainboard. If they happen to waste a single shot on a Worldheart Phoenix you get to laugh and play a Broodmate Dragon unscathed. Seems very fair to me.
More importantly, if you keep the card out when it's not needed (Chumping, or going aggro after you gain advantage) then that says worlds about your playing ability. Even if they have a Relic, you can in response recurr and shrug. If your playing it before you have the recur mana or card advantage, again, see above.
Then again every deck thus far minus two has been a very straight aggro deck. Where as very few have been a mid-range Jund style ramp build.
The problem with this is that if all you are doing is ramping un until turn 4, I promise you that your opponent has superior board position and probably removal to boot whatever you are trying to play. ANY kind of disruption, whether it's RFG instants, or keeping a land you control tapped down, or counterspells, hurts your tempo so badly that it's almost unwinable at that point. At least with the midrange strategies being posted here, we have a bit of a backup should something happen due to our undercosted beaters. Have you actually tested this deck? If so, please post some matchups and data since i'm generally curious as to how well it does because i just don't see it working as well as you're claiming it does.
"Flamper" is probably the most important thing that's been posted in this thread
I think you guys are severely underrating Worldheart in favor of garbage. Yes, it does cost a lot but it recurs like no other. People are smart enough to NOT run Relic/Wheel or any other graveyard hate. Simply put, and I've heard it tons of times, people do not waste SB slots on garbage. Lark loses it's monster advantages through sweepers like Fallout. I'd much rather SB sweeps than graveyard hate because they can go in for multiple matchups unlike Relics/Wheels/whatever.
Just saying.
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I stated a long time ago that CM was some mean tech in certain situations. I also used it, to some success, but found I liked more technical cards in my SB like Elvish Hexhunter (enters the red zone, cost G, and pops enchantments) better. I tried it for a while and decided that since I played too much of a tight list already, that I could not fit it in my board.
I flopped from the combo version to a straight aggro deck before they wiped the forums. I played the Muesings list until my eyes bled, and was just unsatisfied. He was lucky, plain and simple. For us unlucky people however you can't pull it off all the time. So I made my aggro version that I posted until I stopped playing FNM entirely. I cut Overrun out of my 75, as it was previously in my board. I can honestly say I never missed it, since I never overextended.
Que..
I think the best play with this deck is to do the least amount of plays. By this I mean that you should never be in a situation where you get blown out by Fallout/Clasm/Charm/***. You don't need to win in one turn and thinking this way will put you at a huge disadvantage as your racing for nothing.
I will put it this way, you can put enough pressure on an opponent by playing Heritage and two elves since they can only fathom what your hand holds. I've seen Heritage get blown up over beating face 5/5's when I held a Forest. The deck doesnt really need to work off of a crew of 1/1's, it can work off of tempo, and card advantage in the form of Primal Command/Wolf Skull Shaman or the insane versatility of Hunting Triad. This is speaking from experience.
Also, the white splash is now necessary. I used to say stacking lords did the trick. It still does but doesnt garuntee anything but your overextending. Is Forge Tender necessary? Maybe, but I'd rather have Mark of Asylum instead since it covers all. Speaking purley in my opinion, on all of this, I think G/W is the way to go now. Honestly.
But there is only a few months left to play this archetype. So live it up while you can, hell dust off a Muesings list and overextend to a T4.
A lot of it makes sense. But I don't divulge my own personal opinions. Merely helping out the OP.
I usually run, 22-24 with 25 the max on control decks for me. I ran elves with 15 all the way to 19 and back down to 13. Aggro can get away with it if your curve drops off at 3-4. Control is not so lucky.
http://www.drinkoftheweek.com/rum.html
Tequila > Vodka > Rum
Who needs to mix drinks when you can just drink it from the bottle?
I have never heard of gamers using Ubuntu.
Update your drivers, if that fails get a new video card.
4/4 Imp/Liege line maindeck.
4/4 Primal Command/Triad line maindeck.
Ton of elves, 3 Regal Force, and some lands.
SB will ALWAYS have..
4 Guttural
4 Scattershot
7 Preference
I've considered 4/4 Brushland/GW Filter to support Mark of Asylum and Cavaliers if you see a lot of Fallouts.
You still don't need gimmicks; Banefire, Overrun, Garruk or any sort of dead draws. You just need elves, and the general knowledge of playing the deck.
Also..did..I..see.....Creeping Mold?
Man, I do believe someone bashed his head on his keyboard some months ago telling me that card was bad. Go figure?
I also fancy a 1-of Hammer.
If your no putting any instruments with it yet (Or wont be for a while) then you can continue to edit and update it as you progress skill wise. Either way you should keep it strictly as your own because it makes more sense and matters more if you write it. Seeking outside help is fine, but by them adding in lines or writing stuff for it loses you voice and emotion.
(IMHO)
I'm not really picking up much, but looking at the now underpriced stuff and deciding if it is worth a purchase. I can't really think of much, but as I see good buys I'm going to pick them up. After seeing the next set I will probably have more of an idea of what will shape up after the rotations. Off the top of m head though, Ajani V, Ranger, and Knight of the White Orchard are dirt cheap and will see a good amount of play.
Yes, Magic will bring you a ton of friends and social interaction with other guys (Note, dudes). But other then that it does not really help much beyond that. If you go pro, win some cash, get free flight/swag, and make a decent life by devoting your time to it then congratulations. I cannot count the amount of people I have made friends with because of Magic, but other than sucking my free time and at one point or another my money, it does not do much else. I guess it makes you smarter as well, but you have to be smart to play this game successfully anyway.
My thoughts.
Seriously saw that happen..
"iz gud, i netdecked b/w tokens"
Considering this is not even a real deck, I won't get too devoted to my point. But the reality is that two Relic of Progenitus were the only graveyard hate cards to even see a sideboard at Kyoto. That has to tell you something, just ask Lark players if graveyard hate hurts them and how blank those cards become game two if people have them in the board. The deck doesn't win because of Lark, it wins because it's entire creature base generates more card advantage than you can shake a stick at.
Furthermore, think of the long game. People will not be running X Oring/X Path main since it's redundant (Most real decks also do not have the space). So typically there are 4 or so RFG cards in a single mainboard. If they happen to waste a single shot on a Worldheart Phoenix you get to laugh and play a Broodmate Dragon unscathed. Seems very fair to me.
More importantly, if you keep the card out when it's not needed (Chumping, or going aggro after you gain advantage) then that says worlds about your playing ability. Even if they have a Relic, you can in response recurr and shrug. If your playing it before you have the recur mana or card advantage, again, see above.
Then again every deck thus far minus two has been a very straight aggro deck. Where as very few have been a mid-range Jund style ramp build.
I think you guys are severely underrating Worldheart in favor of garbage. Yes, it does cost a lot but it recurs like no other. People are smart enough to NOT run Relic/Wheel or any other graveyard hate. Simply put, and I've heard it tons of times, people do not waste SB slots on garbage. Lark loses it's monster advantages through sweepers like Fallout. I'd much rather SB sweeps than graveyard hate because they can go in for multiple matchups unlike Relics/Wheels/whatever.
Just saying.