In the interest of improving the storyline section of the wiki, I need some clarification. Several character entries are basically just a word-for-word, chapter-by-chapter playback of that characters lives. This results in the Gerrard and Kamahl entries being eight thousand pages long (rough estimate). Other characters, like Azami, have huge entries that basically just replay the characters short stories or novels in the author's own words.
The question: Should this be frowned upon or encouraged? I myself groan every time I want to look up some information on a character only to discover that someone has basically recreated an entire novel in his/her own words, mostly in an in-universe style. I've been editing the "Kamahl thought, 'I should fight things now!'" entries, but in the interests of editing the wiki, should certain overlong (IMO) entries be further condensed?
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My thought is, the primary focus should be getting as much useful info into the wiki as possible. Once there's enough for it to be considered 'encyclopedic,' which may already be the case, then you should go through and pretty-up the most important articles -- Gerrard being a prime example.
So, basically, yes the articles should be edited to look more professional, but there may be more important things to do first.
I think it's important for an article to contain every single scrap of information we have about a character, but I don't think we need to tell that characters story. The Kamahl article in particular is basically just a rehash of the entire storyline. "Kamahl went here. Upon getting there, he discovered this. This made him mad. Then he went here. Then he fought this person. Then he did this. Then he did that." It leaves nothing out by saying "During this time Kamahl fought [CHARACTER] while on his travels."
The main thing I want to avoid in trimming these articles is stepping on anybody's toes. I know that people have taken a long time in writing a particular character entry, but it gets rather silly when Azami's entry is longer than Glissa Sunseeker's.
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Although I doubt any entry is 8,000 pages long (except for the Color Pie entry - now that one is pretty long), we don't need them slashed down to a 1/4 page either.
Being the one who has written one of the most detailed character entries, i.e. Toshiro Umezawa's, I would like to see other people doing the same, putting as much info in the wiki as possible. The thing is, I have no more time to do it. I understand that others are in similar situation, but I'd really want to see at least the main characters (Glissa, Agrus Kos, Rhys, Gerrard, Urza, Barrin, Jodah, Jaya... etc.) covered in such manner.
It kinda makes sense that Glissa's entry is shorter than Azami's... there was more interesting things in Azami's short tale than in whole Mirrodin cycle books...
But summed up: As long as there is some stylistical quality in the longer entries, I see no problem in having them. If they are mechanical listings of "came there, fought that, left for other-there, came other-there, fought something other", then they should be rephrased or shortened. With the exception of Mirrodin block characters, for there is no other story than the one given as example.
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I think I've misrepresented my opinion. I think long character entries are great, and for characters like Gerrard, Urza, Kamahl, and Toshi they should be required. The main thing I want to get away from is just doing a play-by-play. And I'm sorry Caranthir, but I'm going to pick on you for a little while. Your Toshi entry is great, but it's also written in a way that is less encyclopedic and more, well, action-packed. It's like a recap of the Kamigawa Cycle that is so detailed that it tells what type of magic Toshi used to accomplish a certain goal. I've spent about three hours editing it today, and I hope it looks more in line with a character biography. Basically I'd like the Toshi entry (and others like it) to have mountains upon mountains of detail without reading like, well, a story.
I know I seem like something of a hypocrite seeing as how my old Phyrexia.com character biographies were (in some cases) 40 pages long (not a rough estimate) and were entirely done in an in-universe style, but that was the encouraged format of that site's biographies. Since the majority of character entries on the wiki are factual based instead of action based it seems like we should get away from repeating this in the future.
Again, I hope I'm not stepping on any toes (hooves, fins, barbed-wire mechanical appendages) here. Caranthir's entry on Toshi obviously took a hell of a lot of work.
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I think I've misrepresented my opinion. I think long character entries are great, and for characters like Gerrard, Urza, Kamahl, and Toshi they should be required. The main thing I want to get away from is just doing a play-by-play. And I'm sorry Caranthir, but I'm going to pick on you for a little while. Your Toshi entry is great, but it's also written in a way that is less encyclopedic and more, well, action-packed. It's like a recap of the Kamigawa Cycle that is so detailed that it tells what type of magic Toshi used to accomplish a certain goal. I've spent about three hours editing it today, and I hope it looks more in line with a character biography. Basically I'd like the Toshi entry (and others like it) to have mountains upon mountains of detail without reading like, well, a story.
Yup, seeing your point now. As for how much detailed it was ...well, if you translate the whole book to your mother language, you got a bit too fond of it :p. That's why it looked how it looked.
I know I seem like something of a hypocrite seeing as how my old Phyrexia.com character biographies were (in some cases) 40 pages long (not a rough estimate) and were entirely done in an in-universe style, but that was the encouraged format of that site's biographies. Since the majority of character entries on the wiki are factual based instead of action based it seems like we should get away from repeating this in the future.
You wouldn't guess where I inspired when writing it, Eid ;):p...
Again, I hope I'm not stepping on any toes (hooves, fins, barbed-wire mechanical appendages) here. Caranthir's entry on Toshi obviously took a hell of a lot of work.
Yeah, it did. But I enjoyed it. And due to the time demands, none of my latter entries was so long and so detailed ever since. If all important characters would get an entry like this edited version of Toshi's, then I'm OK with that.
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Lol, I understand both PoVs. But that's the fun part of editing! A small entry grows, someone who loves the character expands it, and then comes clean up. Just a natural evolution process.
Split the really long articles into two parts. Have the first part be pretty much the short and sweet version and then have the rest of it (Most of it.) be the long version with every little detail added in.
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I am probably the only person in the world that collects Tarnished Citadels. Not because I like the card, but because I don't want someone to get his hands on one and then attemp to actually play the damned thing.
Split the really long articles into two parts. Have the first part be pretty much the short and sweet version and then have the rest of it (Most of it.) be the long version with every little detail added in.
How do you suggest we do that? Have an article of Yawgmoth (overview) and a article called Yawgmoth (detailed)? [for example].
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"It's worked so far, but we're not out yet." ~ Bones
The question: Should this be frowned upon or encouraged? I myself groan every time I want to look up some information on a character only to discover that someone has basically recreated an entire novel in his/her own words, mostly in an in-universe style. I've been editing the "Kamahl thought, 'I should fight things now!'" entries, but in the interests of editing the wiki, should certain overlong (IMO) entries be further condensed?
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So, basically, yes the articles should be edited to look more professional, but there may be more important things to do first.
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The main thing I want to avoid in trimming these articles is stepping on anybody's toes. I know that people have taken a long time in writing a particular character entry, but it gets rather silly when Azami's entry is longer than Glissa Sunseeker's.
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It kinda makes sense that Glissa's entry is shorter than Azami's... there was more interesting things in Azami's short tale than in whole Mirrodin cycle books...
But summed up: As long as there is some stylistical quality in the longer entries, I see no problem in having them. If they are mechanical listings of "came there, fought that, left for other-there, came other-there, fought something other", then they should be rephrased or shortened. With the exception of Mirrodin block characters, for there is no other story than the one given as example.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I know I seem like something of a hypocrite seeing as how my old Phyrexia.com character biographies were (in some cases) 40 pages long (not a rough estimate) and were entirely done in an in-universe style, but that was the encouraged format of that site's biographies. Since the majority of character entries on the wiki are factual based instead of action based it seems like we should get away from repeating this in the future.
Again, I hope I'm not stepping on any toes (hooves, fins, barbed-wire mechanical appendages) here. Caranthir's entry on Toshi obviously took a hell of a lot of work.
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Yup, seeing your point now. As for how much detailed it was ...well, if you translate the whole book to your mother language, you got a bit too fond of it :p. That's why it looked how it looked.
You wouldn't guess where I inspired when writing it, Eid ;):p...
Yeah, it did. But I enjoyed it. And due to the time demands, none of my latter entries was so long and so detailed ever since. If all important characters would get an entry like this edited version of Toshi's, then I'm OK with that.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
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How do you suggest we do that? Have an article of Yawgmoth (overview) and a article called Yawgmoth (detailed)? [for example].