RE Crucible: Not saying it's a bad plan (the one described above), but just trying to figure things out here.
Wouldn't it be better to just Recoup instead of Crucible if its purpose was for gifts? Then you could play for Yawg Win gifts piles? Like Recoup, Yawg, Tinker + X?
I dunno. I got beat by that guy and MWStationed his deck after, but I didn't build it myself. I like the idea of potential striplock, though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Ok, game 3 ended up in Ingot Chewer Beatdown (I was playing Painter) but the deck was really an "all the answers" kind of deck. I like the way it played (even against me) and the possibility to strip lock your opponent is just toog good to pass up. I'd opt in favor of Wastelands in the sideboard instead of Blood Moons, but it's pretty much the 1 change I'd make.
That deck is only showing 57 cards in the main deck, I'm actually rather curious what the missing three cards are.
I do however wish that Slaver could pull off running some green in it so that you can use Crop Rotation to help fetch out that Library or Strip as needed. THough I guess with as many tutors as it has there really isn't THAT much need for a crop rotation.
what do you guys think of running top? also ive seen some versions use plat and acadamy ruins, like the extended version. your thoughts on that?
I'm a bit new to the deck so don't quote me on this but:
1) From what I've seen most of the builds do run Platinum Angel.
2) Top is more of a choice but I think if you're running Trinket Mage you might as well run atleast a single Top.
3) Academy Ruins seems to be in the original deck but I'm guessing Goblin Welder takes thier place easily. The problem is a Wasteland will usually keep you from being able to make use of those Ruins.
Not really, atleast not for what it gives you. You're running plenty of mana boosting and artifacts to support it.
Besides, what would you run in it's place... You're already running Recall and Brainstorm. So that leaves mostly Sorcery speed spells that net you less cards, cost only one less, and/or not in blue so they wouldn't even be able to pitch for Will/Misdirection.
Not playing Thirst for it's cost is like not playing Platinum Angel in favor of Worship just because it's cheaper.
There's no SUB for Thirst for Knowledge period. It's the best draw spell in vintage outside {A.Recall, FoF, Brainstorm}, and the price should never be a problem in the big boy league with all fast mana ACC supporting your deck.
I hope that topic can rest now since it has been asked or mention by members throughout several threads or please someone just come up with a better card to replace it so we can all talk and give positive critisim.
Thrist for knowledge is entirely essential to this deck. It puts artifacts to your graveyard. It does so at instant speed. Since the win-con of this deck is welding in huge artifacts, it's self explanatory.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I personally haven't seen any C.S. decks using wastelands, but I know the Crucible+strip is coming back since opp can't save their lands with Gush anymore.
Not very recent, but this was the original. (I think) It seems CS is divided in two groups (kind of). Strategic Slaver and Slaver without Strategic Planning. And the ones who use Strategic Planning tend to use Wastelands in the board.
Ok, just a few questions about the deck you posted there:
1) Why did the Seat of Synod vanish off? Was having that one less none-basic that problematic for the deck or was it just that the benefits it offered were better outweighed the the short comings it had? Could a single Mishra's Factory be a possible replacement for a spell slot, as it can become an artifact for Welding action but avoids things like the Mox Monkey and other artifact hate as it's not one until it is activated. It would seem rather fun to have the ability to keep bringing Mindslaver back with Crucible and Factory. If I'm not planning to play Strategic Planning would I be best advised to turn one of the Plannings into a Library?
2) Why the single Rack and Ruin, if it's for Painter couldn't one run REB and still make good use of it against other decks as Recall and other cards are so popular?
i agree the seat is amazing make room for it some how. why no pithing needle mb or sb?
I'd say Factory is actually better than Seat as you are no longer playing Trinket Mage. The reason is that Factory avoids things like Mox Monkey, Shattering Spree, etc. and can beat in when needed. It still holds the same interaction with Crucible/Welder but is just a bit better than Synod if you're not running Trinket Mage.
Rack and Ruin is a very sweet card to have, and it definitely belongs in the main deck. It's useful against most decks right now. Originally, it was there against Workshop decks, but it is just as good to have against Painter decks now.
Since my last post on this arch-type, but I was just in a small local event and placed first running my updated build.
I had a anwser for about every situation I faced, and the tempo was always in my favor.
Worse match ups were:,
Oath 2-1
Fish 2-1
Ichorid 2-1
Perfect through:,
Goblins 2-0
Stax 2-0
Bomberman 2-0
Grim~Long 2-0 {My bro played this one}
and ofcourse the rogue decks that showed.
Prize not worth mentioning, but the win felt good.
What purpose has Crucible in your build? You don't have either Gifts Ungiven MD or Wastelands in the board.
Why no MD Rack and Ruin?
If you will notice there's a Strip Mine + Fetches in the MD. So that should cleary answer that one, and I didn't run a gifts. I felt it would be just a waste in the long run with how the format is right now being there's no rush to find anything with all the Tempo I would have durning play. I went with the 2 Thoughseizes for MD, and that took up any extra spots I had open. They came in handy, and have no regrets. Rack and Ruin is a sweet card, but I just couldn't see myself MD 1 card thats clearly worthy of SB only {my opinion though I have seen it done before}
I did well, so I think I made the right deck changes before the tourney.
Wouldn't it be better to just Recoup instead of Crucible if its purpose was for gifts? Then you could play for Yawg Win gifts piles? Like Recoup, Yawg, Tinker + X?
That deck is only showing 57 cards in the main deck, I'm actually rather curious what the missing three cards are.
I do however wish that Slaver could pull off running some green in it so that you can use Crop Rotation to help fetch out that Library or Strip as needed. THough I guess with as many tutors as it has there really isn't THAT much need for a crop rotation.
I'm a bit new to the deck so don't quote me on this but:
1) From what I've seen most of the builds do run Platinum Angel.
2) Top is more of a choice but I think if you're running Trinket Mage you might as well run atleast a single Top.
3) Academy Ruins seems to be in the original deck but I'm guessing Goblin Welder takes thier place easily. The problem is a Wasteland will usually keep you from being able to make use of those Ruins.
Besides, what would you run in it's place... You're already running Recall and Brainstorm. So that leaves mostly Sorcery speed spells that net you less cards, cost only one less, and/or not in blue so they wouldn't even be able to pitch for Will/Misdirection.
Not playing Thirst for it's cost is like not playing Platinum Angel in favor of Worship just because it's cheaper.
I hope that topic can rest now since it has been asked or mention by members throughout several threads or please someone just come up with a better card to replace it so we can all talk and give positive critisim.
If you don't mind D3 could you provide a current deck list, or at least the mana base being used?
ty
2 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelavus
instant
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rack and Ruin
4 Thirst for Knowledge
sorcery
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
4 Strategic Planning
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mindslaver
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Tormod's Crypt
land
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thran Foundry
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
3 Wasteland
Not very recent, but this was the original. (I think) It seems CS is divided in two groups (kind of). Strategic Slaver and Slaver without Strategic Planning. And the ones who use Strategic Planning tend to use Wastelands in the board.
1) Why did the Seat of Synod vanish off? Was having that one less none-basic that problematic for the deck or was it just that the benefits it offered were better outweighed the the short comings it had? Could a single Mishra's Factory be a possible replacement for a spell slot, as it can become an artifact for Welding action but avoids things like the Mox Monkey and other artifact hate as it's not one until it is activated. It would seem rather fun to have the ability to keep bringing Mindslaver back with Crucible and Factory. If I'm not planning to play Strategic Planning would I be best advised to turn one of the Plannings into a Library?
2) Why the single Rack and Ruin, if it's for Painter couldn't one run REB and still make good use of it against other decks as Recall and other cards are so popular?
I'd say Factory is actually better than Seat as you are no longer playing Trinket Mage. The reason is that Factory avoids things like Mox Monkey, Shattering Spree, etc. and can beat in when needed. It still holds the same interaction with Crucible/Welder but is just a bit better than Synod if you're not running Trinket Mage.
I had a anwser for about every situation I faced, and the tempo was always in my favor.
Worse match ups were:,
Oath 2-1
Fish 2-1
Ichorid 2-1
Perfect through:,
Goblins 2-0
Stax 2-0
Bomberman 2-0
Grim~Long 2-0 {My bro played this one}
and ofcourse the rogue decks that showed.
Prize not worth mentioning, but the win felt good.
1x Tolarian Academy
3x Volcanis Island
1x Strip Mine
2x Underground Sea
3x Flooded Strand
2x Island
3x Polluted Delta
Artifact {13}
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Jet
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Memory Jar
1x Mindslaver
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
2x Thoughseize
1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Merchant Scroll
Creature (7)
3x Goblin Welder
1x Gorilla Shaman
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Triskelion
1x Sundering Titan
Instant (18)
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
4x Thirst of Knowledge
1x Echoing Truth
1x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
2x Extripate
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Yixlid Jailer
1x Duplicant
1x Platinum Angel
1x Razormane Masticore
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Pyroclasm
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
2x Rack and Ruin
1x Shattering Spree
What purpose has Crucible in your build? You don't have either Gifts Ungiven MD or Wastelands in the board.
Why no MD Rack and Ruin?
If you will notice there's a Strip Mine + Fetches in the MD. So that should cleary answer that one, and I didn't run a gifts. I felt it would be just a waste in the long run with how the format is right now being there's no rush to find anything with all the Tempo I would have durning play. I went with the 2 Thoughseizes for MD, and that took up any extra spots I had open. They came in handy, and have no regrets. Rack and Ruin is a sweet card, but I just couldn't see myself MD 1 card thats clearly worthy of SB only {my opinion though I have seen it done before}
I did well, so I think I made the right deck changes before the tourney.