Before Gencon, Team GWS developed an incarnation of Grimlong in 2 or 2.5 colors, which eventually settled on the name Pitch Long. This deck was much like Grim with its sideboard in the maindeck, adding 3 Misdirections to both up the blue card count, as well as replicate Force of Wills 5-7.
Pitch Long
A Vintage deck, by Tommy Kolowith
2nd place at a World Championships tournament in Indianapolis, Indiana, United States on 2006-08-13Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Pitchlong is recognized as a more powerful deck than Grimlong, due to the stable manabase in the face of Wastelands, the Fetchlands to pair with Brainstorm, and the more potent protection for the bombs. It's a complicated deck to play, and difficult to learn by goldfishing, since the blue cards will often look terrible in goldfish, but are in fact amazing in gameplay.
Here, TK forewent the Windfall and Lion's Eye Diamond in Grimlong for the Infernal Contract and extra Misdirection. He also chose to run no Xantid Swarms in the board, and kept the Tinker -> Colossus plan, which has since been dropped by most players. After discussing it with Paul Mastriano, TK, Herbig, Elias (SonataoftheCathedral on TMD), and a few others, here's my current list and some choices.
LED - It's another Lotus. Yes, the drawback is intense. Yes, it is worth the drawback for another Lotus. Often you will find that Demonic Tutoring for LED will be more beneficial than Lotus, since it keeps Lotus available to use inside a Draw-7 or Will. You can also do techy things like crack LED in response to a Cabal Ritual that's played in response to a Draw spell or Brainstorm. Windfall - Often not much more than a Draw 4, some people prefer to use Infernal Contract to make it 1-sided. If I could cast Contract without paying 8-10 life, I would play it over Windfall. I still can't justify it, but I may start testing with it. Windfall being blue is another point in its favor.
2 MD bounce - Needed. Also helps up the blue cards for Force and MisD. Massacre - I am absolutely in love with the Massacres in the board. They solve a rediculous amount of problems, and are a permanent solution to the fishy creatures, as opposed to just bouncing them.
Lands in the Board - The Tropical Island is there to side in with the Xantids to give you a fetchable way to play them. The Island and Swamp are there to give you more permanent mana sources vs. Stax, and to make your manabase more robust vs. decks with mana denial.
If you're interested, I'm available for suggestions and comments on play decisions (there are an infinite number of ways to win with this deck). If you have any questions, ask!
I recently picked up this deck for our local Vintage tournaments. Our meta consists of ~12 players with varying playskill. Mostly fish varients, a few combo (Kobold-clamp, Dragon), and a really powerful workshop-aggro deck which has been winning lately.
There aren't many articles on how to play Pitch Long (versus Grim Long), so I was wondering if anyone could point me at any good threads/articles on piloting the deck, especially any that help with sideboarding.
I have recently decided to make a foray into competitive Vintage and Pitch Long was my deck of choice.
I have played a number of games with both TK's list and Jeff's list, but have yet to settle on a build I am entirely happy with. I have tested other configurations and think those builds are closest, but still haven't come to terms with a few things...
#1 - I dislike Lion's Eye Diamond in Pitch Long because I think using it is anti-synergistic with the Pitch cards. It is true that this deck likes the extra lotus effect, but I think for that cost, it becomes too situational to warrant inclusion.
#2 - I prefer Infernal Contract over Windfall. This really boils down to that I rarely pay 8-10 life for 4 cards, but more likely after a Necro- or Bargain-draw am paying 3-4 life for 4 cards to refuel as I'm going off. Windfall almost never nets what you want it to (that's been my experience anyhow).
#3 - I like the third Misdirection. 7 Pitch spells seems like the right number, but the slot is often one that gets boarded out so I'm willing to listen.
#4 - I haven't found the need for Time Walk overwhelming. With this amount of Pitch magic, I haven't had trouble pushing through when going off and almost never wanted to play the Walk when I could. About all it did was up the storm count as I went off... I consider that a so-so slot.
#5 - Rebuild vs Hurkyl's Recall... Is this really 6-of-one-half-dozen-of-another? I've almost never cycled the Rebuild... Am I missing something?
#5 - 2x Tendrils of Agony. This seems like too many. While I understand the need for a second win condition (the random Extract, etc.), it's just that I can't help think the deck could be more effeciently built without the second one in the maindeck.
This has left me with ~2-3 slots that I'm not conviced are set. I'm open to suggestions for cards to test in those slots - but would like to hear others experiences.
@ Dissolution - Good Luck! (finding a how-to guide to Pitch Long that is). I suggest reading posts on all the major message boards dealing with Vintage and then play the deck over and over and over again. When you are finished with that, play some more and then play some more after that. The running theme that you will get from 99% of the articles on Vintage Combo is that the decks are VERY skill intensive and those articles are 100% TRUE. It takes the average player a good number of games before they truly learn some of the possible answers to the numerous questions that will come up in the first turns of a Vintage game. It is very difficult to describe and, I think, comes across as condescending at first, but once you goldfish ~100 hands and look at everything that can come up as your attempt to go off, you soon realize just how true it is. And, as Mr. Nightmare pointed out, Pitch Long is a very difficult deck to goldfish because the 'Pitch' cards seem really crappy when you get a mittful during testing. As for sideboarding, I am still learning myself so I don't have a concrete answer, but I have started to group the deck into sections (bounce, tutors, mana, accelerants, broken/business, win) to get a feel for what I can side out for certain match-ups. Remember, though, sideboarding can become very specific to your local meta - so the rules don't necessarily apply across the board (i.e., if you don't see a lot of Drain decks, you may be able to configure the board differently).
On Rebuild Vs. Hurkyl's - Really the only thing that differs is the CMC. Occasionally, a Chalice at 2 is relevant, but truthfully I've never seen it as an issue. Rebuild is nice because it enables storm at the same time as bouncing Stax's board, but if you get up to 3 mana vs. Stax you're already at a winning position. It was a bit different during the Grimlong period since you could ESG ESG Rebuild, but it isn't quite as relevant now. I run Hurkyl's MD, and one of each in the board just to vary the CMCs.
The post I put up is a little old, I've tested out Infernal Contract/Cruel Bargain a bit and haven't really seen great results either way. Honestly, I just miss Wheel of Fortune, and would almost splash red for it if I thought it was worth it. Right now I'm using Cruel Bargain, because Windfall is always a D4 anyway, and still use LED. I can see the arguments for not running LED, and were I to cut it, I'd add a third Usea.
@ Mr. Nightmare - I think if you splash for Red you almost certainly would just play Grim Long. The trade here is pitch magic (more stable mana) vs utility (more diverse mana), right? You'll have to forgive my ignorance with your post, but what is Cruel Bargain?
@ Evenpence - Am I missing something? What is the interaction of Tendrils with Necropotence? I know some people play 2x Tendrils because of poor interaction with Memory Jar, but I've never heard or seen an 'interaction' with Necro. Please elaborate.
I'm really enjoying playing this deck and hope some discussion takes off here.
@ Mr. Nightmare - I think if you splash for Red you almost certainly would just play Grim Long. The trade here is pitch magic (more stable mana) vs utility (more diverse mana), right? You'll have to forgive my ignorance with your post, but what is Cruel Bargain?
I don't see the need to play Grim Long anymore, honestly. PL gives you a more stable mana base and the deck has one less bomb, which is Wheel. Other than that, it's the same deck.
Cruel Bargain - BBB; Draw 4 cards, you lose half your life rounded up.
@ Evenpence - Am I missing something? What is the interaction of Tendrils with Necropotence? I know some people play 2x Tendrils because of poor interaction with Memory Jar, but I've never heard or seen an 'interaction' with Necro. Please elaborate.
I'm really enjoying playing this deck and hope some discussion takes off here.
If you have another Tendrils maindeck, you can afford to 'mini-Tendrils' to gain life to dig further to find the other Tendrils for the win. You can also throw one away, if you have no way to win at the moment, since it gets removed you cannot access it. It allows for more flexibility.
@ Mr. Nightmare - I think if you splash for Red you almost certainly would just play Grim Long. The trade here is pitch magic (more stable mana) vs utility (more diverse mana), right? You'll have to forgive my ignorance with your post, but what is Cruel Bargain?
I began playing the deck as Grim Long, before Pitch Long was created. I'm aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each build, and I even wrote them above. I was stating the only part of Grimlong I miss in making the switch to Pitchlong is the additional "good" draw7. Also, Cruel Bargain.
@ Evenpence - Am I missing something? What is the interaction of Tendrils with Necropotence? I know some people play 2x Tendrils because of poor interaction with Memory Jar, but I've never heard or seen an 'interaction' with Necro. Please elaborate.
I'm really enjoying playing this deck and hope some discussion takes off here.
The interaction between Necro and Tendrils is basically nothing, other than pure bad. If you lay Necro and draw into Tendrils, you're forced to keep it in hand, since it will be removed from the game if you discard it. If you pass the turn and get Duressed, you lose the game. This is one of the reasons (Memory Jar being a significant second) that people have begun to run a second Tendrils.
I proxied this up, and I too don't like the necropotence. I never want it when going off, and doesn't really help to go off. It's probably my inexperience, but I never find myself goldfishing before turn 3. I prolly just suck, but there never seem to be enough cards to storm off, unless I get the turn 1 bargain, which costs me ritual and/or playing moxes that I want to save for the winning turn.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
I don't play combo but in my experience playing against it Necropotence wins the game unanswered. Simply drawing 10+ cards for BBB is just amazing. All you have to do is resolve Necro and sculpt a perfect 7 card, then just hand pass the turn, untap and win the game.
Ok, I've been messing around with this a bit, and I have a few questions:
1. What's the purpose of the Swamp and Island as opposed to two more Underground Seas?
2. Is Necropotence as subpar as it seems in this deck, or is there a secret trick that makes it worthwhile on the turn you're trying to win?
3. What's the best thing to tutor for early on to go off? Will?
4. Why Chain of Vapor? I haven't yet found myself in a situation where it was worth casting, as far as I could tell.
5. Is there a specific purpose for the Misdirections, or are they just there to kinda sorta be more Force of Wills?
Most of your issues stem from you playing without an opponent. I addressed this a bit in my writeup, but nonetheless, I'll do it again.
1. The Swamp and Island give you mana sources to fetch out when playing vs. Wastelands. Remember, your opponents (Usually Fish and Stax) get to play 4 Wastes, but only 1 Strip Mine. This stability of manabase is one of the major reasons to go 2 colors, rather than 5 colors with City of Brass and Gemstone Mine.
2. Necro is there as the major turn 1 setup card. If you drop Necro (and can't Time Walk in the same turn), you get to draw a ton of cards and set up the perfect 7 card hand for your next turn. This is definately best in the matchup vs. control, as you can often draw a TON of cards.
3. THE most important card in this deck is Black Lotus. What you tutor for is extremely situational, but Steve Menendian has written before that his chances of having a turn 1 kill with Lotus in his opening 7 is like 90%.
4. Chain of Vapor serves 2 distinct purposes. The first is to bounce hate (something you aren't seeing while goldfishing). The second is a Storm enabler. You can tap all your artifact mana and lands, cast Chain of Vapor on a Mox, sac a land to chain it to another Mox, and continue to do it until you run out of land. You can then replay the Moxen for a ton of storm and mana. All at the low cost of U.
5. Misdirections are there to protect your Threats from Counterspells. They can also assist in random instances, like Mis-Ding an opponent's Ancestral Recall to yourself, or Mis-Ding a Stifle from your Storm to a Bargain activation. A lot of the time, they simply pitch to Force of Will, wich is relevant in this deck, since it means you aren't RFGing a business spell.
I proxied this up, and I too don't like the necropotence. I never want it when going off, and doesn't really help to go off. It's probably my inexperience, but I never find myself goldfishing before turn 3. I prolly just suck, but there never seem to be enough cards to storm off, unless I get the turn 1 bargain, which costs me ritual and/or playing moxes that I want to save for the winning turn.
It's possible you're misjudging when you could win. I've been playing this deck since it was created, and I average a turn 1.5 win.
I can see that this deck does it's best at 2 color, but splashing another might help. I see Bargain and necropotence and think, wouldn't that go nicely with Angel's grace? or even Platinum angel? That sort of interaction can gurantee a win methinks. Win-more as it is, I still think it could help. With bargain out, that means draw your whole deck, and win right on the spot. With mox pearl already in there and lotus too, I cant see how it would be hard to support, as well as it not hurting the deck. Keep in mind I don't play vintage, and this is just a minor suggestion anyway.
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The number of games in which Long resolves Yawgmoth's Bargain and doesn't win the game that turn is sufficiently small that there's no justification for adding maindeck cards just to combo with it.
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The number of games in which Long resolves Yawgmoth's Bargain and doesn't win the game that turn is sufficiently small that there's no justification for adding maindeck cards just to combo with it.
QFT. If I'm drawing 10+ cards (particularly, the cards in this deck) in a turn, there really isn't much of a chance that I'll lose the game at that point. Effectively, 10+ cards might as well be your whole deck.
I can see that this deck does it's best at 2 color, but splashing another might help.
Also, while I appreciate the sentiment of trying to help, this particular forum (the competitive one) is used for "finished" decks. This deck is basically optimized, barring preferences (LED/no LED, Cruel Bargain/Windfall, etc.) or new cards being printed.
Speaking of which, anyone think Null Profusion (timeshifted Recycle) might be good in this?
I was just thinking the same thing. Althought i dont know how much better it is then yawgmoths bargian. Seems to me that it would help you draw a lot of cards when you are going for your storm count for the win with tendrils. But probably isnt going to help you draw a bunch of cards at once any other time, atleast i dont think so.
I was just thinking the same thing. Althought i dont know how much better it is then yawgmoths bargian. Seems to me that it would help you draw a lot of cards when you are going for your storm count for the win with tendrils. But probably isnt going to help you draw a bunch of cards at once any other time, atleast i dont think so.
I think it definately is, considering it is in black (One of the colors best supported) And it's effect does not cost life to use. I think it's actually pretty ****ing broken in this deck. A 2 of at best, if I tried this deck.
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Quote from RunnerJimbob »
Chrome Homura is an intelligent guy. Stands up for Fulminator Mage and doesn't afraid of anything.
Null Profusion is another 6 mana (all-in) Mana Drain target in this deck. It also makes your hand size 2, and stops you from drawing any more cards on your draw step. Most of the time, you'll find yourself basically emptying your hand to get the mana to drop this enchantment, and even if you do make it hit the table, your opponent can very easily contain the one or two spells you have left in hand. Bargain is good because it allows you to draw your deck basically for free, which allows you a huge card advantage over your opponent. This doesn't work quite the same. The drawbacks on the card are far too severe to make it playable, so I'm saying no, it's not a good card in PitchLong.
Null Profusion has the same problem Recycle always had: it's a very risky play if you've already made your land drop for the turn (which there's a good chance you have if you're able to resolve a 6-mana spell). If you've already made a land drop and draw a land... then you effectively have a hand size of 1 for the rest of the turn. Draw a second land? You're passing the turn and hoping for the best next turn.
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I agree that this is not a good card for the deck. The only time that I could see it being solid would be to reveal it off a Mind's Desire while you are going off (which means I wouldn't want to play more then 1 since I NEVER want to draw and actually play this). And it's a complete 'win more'-card in that situation.
The bigger question to ask would be what are you replacing with it? It not better than Yawgmoth's Bargain. It's (obviously) not better than Necropotence. I still believe there are a few questionable slots, but I don't believe that Null Profusion would be better than any of the available options for those slots.
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force Of Will
3 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Infernal Contract
1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp
Lands
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Chain Of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Trickbind
3 Duress
2 Massacre
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
A Vintage deck, by Tommy Kolowith
2nd place at a World Championships tournament in Indianapolis, Indiana, United States on 2006-08-13Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
1 Black Lotus (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Lotus Petal (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Crypt (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Vault (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Memory Jar (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Emerald (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Jet (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Pearl (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Ruby (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Sapphire (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Sol Ring (Restricted in Vintage)
Enchantments
1 Necropotence (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain (Restricted in Vintage)
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall (Restricted in Vintage)
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force Of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Rebuild
1 Vampiric Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Demonic Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Infernal Contract
1 Mind's Desire (Restricted in Vintage)
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Timetwister (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Tinker (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Yawgmoth's Will (Restricted in Vintage)
Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp
Lands
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy (Restricted in Vintage)
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Plague Spitter
2 Chain Of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Stifle
1 Massacre
Pitchlong is recognized as a more powerful deck than Grimlong, due to the stable manabase in the face of Wastelands, the Fetchlands to pair with Brainstorm, and the more potent protection for the bombs. It's a complicated deck to play, and difficult to learn by goldfishing, since the blue cards will often look terrible in goldfish, but are in fact amazing in gameplay.
Here, TK forewent the Windfall and Lion's Eye Diamond in Grimlong for the Infernal Contract and extra Misdirection. He also chose to run no Xantid Swarms in the board, and kept the Tinker -> Colossus plan, which has since been dropped by most players. After discussing it with Paul Mastriano, TK, Herbig, Elias (SonataoftheCathedral on TMD), and a few others, here's my current list and some choices.
1 Black Lotus (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Lotus Petal (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Lion's Eye Diamond (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Crypt (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Vault (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Memory Jar (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Emerald (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Jet (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Pearl (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Ruby (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Sapphire (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Sol Ring (Restricted in Vintage)
Enchantments
1 Necropotence (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain (Restricted in Vintage)
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall (Restricted in Vintage)
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force Of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Demonic Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
3 Grim Tutor
1 Windfall (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind's Desire (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Timetwister (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Tinker (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Yawgmoth's Will (Restricted in Vintage)
Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp
Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy (Restricted in Vintage)
2 Chain Of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
3 Massacre
3 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony
LED - It's another Lotus. Yes, the drawback is intense. Yes, it is worth the drawback for another Lotus. Often you will find that Demonic Tutoring for LED will be more beneficial than Lotus, since it keeps Lotus available to use inside a Draw-7 or Will. You can also do techy things like crack LED in response to a Cabal Ritual that's played in response to a Draw spell or Brainstorm.
Windfall - Often not much more than a Draw 4, some people prefer to use Infernal Contract to make it 1-sided. If I could cast Contract without paying 8-10 life, I would play it over Windfall. I still can't justify it, but I may start testing with it. Windfall being blue is another point in its favor.
2 MD bounce - Needed. Also helps up the blue cards for Force and MisD.
Massacre - I am absolutely in love with the Massacres in the board. They solve a rediculous amount of problems, and are a permanent solution to the fishy creatures, as opposed to just bouncing them.
Lands in the Board - The Tropical Island is there to side in with the Xantids to give you a fetchable way to play them. The Island and Swamp are there to give you more permanent mana sources vs. Stax, and to make your manabase more robust vs. decks with mana denial.
If you're interested, I'm available for suggestions and comments on play decisions (there are an infinite number of ways to win with this deck). If you have any questions, ask!
There aren't many articles on how to play Pitch Long (versus Grim Long), so I was wondering if anyone could point me at any good threads/articles on piloting the deck, especially any that help with sideboarding.
Thanks,
-T
Tech Manager at MTGOSS <- I make MTGO bots!
I have played a number of games with both TK's list and Jeff's list, but have yet to settle on a build I am entirely happy with. I have tested other configurations and think those builds are closest, but still haven't come to terms with a few things...
#1 - I dislike Lion's Eye Diamond in Pitch Long because I think using it is anti-synergistic with the Pitch cards. It is true that this deck likes the extra lotus effect, but I think for that cost, it becomes too situational to warrant inclusion.
#2 - I prefer Infernal Contract over Windfall. This really boils down to that I rarely pay 8-10 life for 4 cards, but more likely after a Necro- or Bargain-draw am paying 3-4 life for 4 cards to refuel as I'm going off. Windfall almost never nets what you want it to (that's been my experience anyhow).
#3 - I like the third Misdirection. 7 Pitch spells seems like the right number, but the slot is often one that gets boarded out so I'm willing to listen.
#4 - I haven't found the need for Time Walk overwhelming. With this amount of Pitch magic, I haven't had trouble pushing through when going off and almost never wanted to play the Walk when I could. About all it did was up the storm count as I went off... I consider that a so-so slot.
#5 - Rebuild vs Hurkyl's Recall... Is this really 6-of-one-half-dozen-of-another? I've almost never cycled the Rebuild... Am I missing something?
#5 - 2x Tendrils of Agony. This seems like too many. While I understand the need for a second win condition (the random Extract, etc.), it's just that I can't help think the deck could be more effeciently built without the second one in the maindeck.
This has left me with ~2-3 slots that I'm not conviced are set. I'm open to suggestions for cards to test in those slots - but would like to hear others experiences.
@ Dissolution - Good Luck! (finding a how-to guide to Pitch Long that is). I suggest reading posts on all the major message boards dealing with Vintage and then play the deck over and over and over again. When you are finished with that, play some more and then play some more after that. The running theme that you will get from 99% of the articles on Vintage Combo is that the decks are VERY skill intensive and those articles are 100% TRUE. It takes the average player a good number of games before they truly learn some of the possible answers to the numerous questions that will come up in the first turns of a Vintage game. It is very difficult to describe and, I think, comes across as condescending at first, but once you goldfish ~100 hands and look at everything that can come up as your attempt to go off, you soon realize just how true it is. And, as Mr. Nightmare pointed out, Pitch Long is a very difficult deck to goldfish because the 'Pitch' cards seem really crappy when you get a mittful during testing. As for sideboarding, I am still learning myself so I don't have a concrete answer, but I have started to group the deck into sections (bounce, tutors, mana, accelerants, broken/business, win) to get a feel for what I can side out for certain match-ups. Remember, though, sideboarding can become very specific to your local meta - so the rules don't necessarily apply across the board (i.e., if you don't see a lot of Drain decks, you may be able to configure the board differently).
Hope that helps,
Fred Bear...
The post I put up is a little old, I've tested out Infernal Contract/Cruel Bargain a bit and haven't really seen great results either way. Honestly, I just miss Wheel of Fortune, and would almost splash red for it if I thought it was worth it. Right now I'm using Cruel Bargain, because Windfall is always a D4 anyway, and still use LED. I can see the arguments for not running LED, and were I to cut it, I'd add a third Usea.
@ Evenpence - Am I missing something? What is the interaction of Tendrils with Necropotence? I know some people play 2x Tendrils because of poor interaction with Memory Jar, but I've never heard or seen an 'interaction' with Necro. Please elaborate.
I'm really enjoying playing this deck and hope some discussion takes off here.
I don't see the need to play Grim Long anymore, honestly. PL gives you a more stable mana base and the deck has one less bomb, which is Wheel. Other than that, it's the same deck.
Cruel Bargain - BBB; Draw 4 cards, you lose half your life rounded up.
If you have another Tendrils maindeck, you can afford to 'mini-Tendrils' to gain life to dig further to find the other Tendrils for the win. You can also throw one away, if you have no way to win at the moment, since it gets removed you cannot access it. It allows for more flexibility.
-DShell
The interaction between Necro and Tendrils is basically nothing, other than pure bad. If you lay Necro and draw into Tendrils, you're forced to keep it in hand, since it will be removed from the game if you discard it. If you pass the turn and get Duressed, you lose the game. This is one of the reasons (Memory Jar being a significant second) that people have begun to run a second Tendrils.
1. What's the purpose of the Swamp and Island as opposed to two more Underground Seas?
2. Is Necropotence as subpar as it seems in this deck, or is there a secret trick that makes it worthwhile on the turn you're trying to win?
3. What's the best thing to tutor for early on to go off? Will?
4. Why Chain of Vapor? I haven't yet found myself in a situation where it was worth casting, as far as I could tell.
5. Is there a specific purpose for the Misdirections, or are they just there to kinda sorta be more Force of Wills?
I proxied this up, and I too don't like the necropotence. I never want it when going off, and doesn't really help to go off. It's probably my inexperience, but I never find myself goldfishing before turn 3. I prolly just suck, but there never seem to be enough cards to storm off, unless I get the turn 1 bargain, which costs me ritual and/or playing moxes that I want to save for the winning turn.
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Edit: Also, I've come to really appreciate Night's Whisper in this.
Most of your issues stem from you playing without an opponent. I addressed this a bit in my writeup, but nonetheless, I'll do it again.
1. The Swamp and Island give you mana sources to fetch out when playing vs. Wastelands. Remember, your opponents (Usually Fish and Stax) get to play 4 Wastes, but only 1 Strip Mine. This stability of manabase is one of the major reasons to go 2 colors, rather than 5 colors with City of Brass and Gemstone Mine.
2. Necro is there as the major turn 1 setup card. If you drop Necro (and can't Time Walk in the same turn), you get to draw a ton of cards and set up the perfect 7 card hand for your next turn. This is definately best in the matchup vs. control, as you can often draw a TON of cards.
3. THE most important card in this deck is Black Lotus. What you tutor for is extremely situational, but Steve Menendian has written before that his chances of having a turn 1 kill with Lotus in his opening 7 is like 90%.
4. Chain of Vapor serves 2 distinct purposes. The first is to bounce hate (something you aren't seeing while goldfishing). The second is a Storm enabler. You can tap all your artifact mana and lands, cast Chain of Vapor on a Mox, sac a land to chain it to another Mox, and continue to do it until you run out of land. You can then replay the Moxen for a ton of storm and mana. All at the low cost of U.
5. Misdirections are there to protect your Threats from Counterspells. They can also assist in random instances, like Mis-Ding an opponent's Ancestral Recall to yourself, or Mis-Ding a Stifle from your Storm to a Bargain activation. A lot of the time, they simply pitch to Force of Will, wich is relevant in this deck, since it means you aren't RFGing a business spell.
It's possible you're misjudging when you could win. I've been playing this deck since it was created, and I average a turn 1.5 win.
Also, while I appreciate the sentiment of trying to help, this particular forum (the competitive one) is used for "finished" decks. This deck is basically optimized, barring preferences (LED/no LED, Cruel Bargain/Windfall, etc.) or new cards being printed.
Speaking of which, anyone think Null Profusion (timeshifted Recycle) might be good in this?
I was just thinking the same thing. Althought i dont know how much better it is then yawgmoths bargian. Seems to me that it would help you draw a lot of cards when you are going for your storm count for the win with tendrils. But probably isnt going to help you draw a bunch of cards at once any other time, atleast i dont think so.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I think it definately is, considering it is in black (One of the colors best supported) And it's effect does not cost life to use. I think it's actually pretty ****ing broken in this deck. A 2 of at best, if I tried this deck.
The bigger question to ask would be what are you replacing with it? It not better than Yawgmoth's Bargain. It's (obviously) not better than Necropotence. I still believe there are a few questionable slots, but I don't believe that Null Profusion would be better than any of the available options for those slots.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B