Welcome, one and all, to the Tournament of Champions! For those of you who might not have paid attention to the tournament-related threads on the Versus Forum for the past few months, this is a collaboration of members of MTGS who have nominated teams, submitted write ups, and have otherwise invested time and energy to create a single-elimination tournament consisting of 32 different "tag teams", pitted against each other in a supreme fighting championship. Who will decide the ultimate winner? Why YOU of course!
There will now be two matches every week, each one also lasting a week (except semi-finals and finals, those last for two weeks each) until the conclusion of the tournament, and you're just in time for Round 1.
One of this week’s matches:
Team "Way of the Warrior" - Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Kenshin Himura
The members of both teams are transported to a different dimension with all information about their opponents “uploaded” into their minds. They have 30 minutes to prepare and talk to each other (they don’t know anything about each other as teammates, save for any experience from previous matches of this same tournament), and will also have full access to any technology, magic, weaponry, resources, etc. which they would routinely be able to use from their respective universes. Teammates may share resources with each other. Afterwards, both teams are teleported to the randomly chosen plane, which has mystically sealed off so that none of them can escape the battlefield in any way. The team that manages to knock out and/or kill both members of the opposing team will be declared the winner. There is no time limit.
Write ups for both teams:
Team "Way of the Warrior" - Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Kenshin Himura
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa is a former Red Barbarian of Otaria in the Magic the Gathering Multiverse. As a Barbarian, he was arguably the strongest fighter on the entire plane, and was capable of defeating many enemies by himself.
However, after losing his sister and realizing the destruction that he had caused for his greed of the Mirari sword, he devoted his life to becoming a protector of the Krosan Forest. He is also arguably even stronger with his renewed blessings of nature, having command over trees, plants and animal life, with losing none of his combat prowess. At the pinnacle of his performance, he was able to defeat the Godlike creature Karona and restore peace to the entire plane of Otaria.
Himura Kenshin is the well known protagonist of the Rurouni Kenshin and Samurai X series. Once arguably the most powerful assassin battousi in all of Japan, he was known to slaughter hundreds if not thousands of people in the name of the Meiji restoration.
After the war was finally over, Kenshin became a wandering ronin, unwilling to kill anymore and seeking atonement for the wrongs he had caused through his killing. Even after adopting the way of the peaceful warrior, Kenshin has shown time and again that he has lost none of his strength from his time as the Battousi. He voluntarily uses a reverse blade sword specifically not to kill any of his opponents, but is still able to subdue and defeat even the strongest swordsman of his time. The pinnacle of his strength is shown through his ability to defeat Shisio, a man so dangerous that it was thought that he was unbeatable. Shisio was so powerful even, that after his death he declared that he would begin a campaign to conquer hell. That gives you a good idea of how strong he was, and how much stronger Kenshin was with his ability to defeat him.
Together, these two fighters share a similar philosophy of preferring a life of peace and nature rather than killing and violence. But when drawn to protect the things they love most, they will do anything and everything needed to neutralize evil.
Team "Viva la Revolution" - Amon and V
Both men with a vicious desire for vengeance, a dark and secret past, and a hatred for the corrupt and oppressive system that brings down the masses, these are the champions of rebellion, secrecy and are certainly cut of the same cloth. Amon is a supreme martial artist with the mysterious power to remove the abilities of other superpowered beings, and V is a skilled fighter with various weapons and a powerful arsenal. Together, these two will make the powerful crumble in the name of the weak and the downtrodden.
How do I vote for the team I like? Well, I'm glad you asked...
This tournament uses a “Dual-Voting System” in which every user on MTGS may vote twice, once on the poll of the thread, and once by posting on the thread itself (by explicitly stating “I vote for team *insert name* because *insert reason*” in a post on the thread). You may spread these votes as you wish (you can vote anonymously on the poll for one team, but express your vote publicly through a post for another), or use them both to vote for the same team, or only vote once (using either method). In the end, the total of both "poll" and "post" votes will be used to determine a winner. In the event of a tie between total votes, the team with the most votes posted publicly on the thread itself shall be declared the winner, and move on to the next round. You only have one week to vote (two weeks for the semi-finals and finals), and the poll automatically closes on Sunday, 12MN (GMT +1). Only posts that occur before that time will be counted as valid votes.
Now, who wins this match? Root for your favorites now!
Round 1
Match 1: "Godslayer" vs. "Wizard Guide" - "Wizard Guide" (25 - 39)
Match 2: "Cybernetic Cannon" vs. "By Your Powers Combined" - "By Your Powers Combined" (21 - 24)
Match 3: "Smash" vs. "Metal Men" - "Metal Men" (22 - 27)
Match 4: "Justice For All" vs. "Speed" - "Justice For All" (25 - 20)
Match 5: "Fun Size" vs. "Pest Control Problem" - "Fun Size" (22 - 14)
Match 6: "Rescue the Princess" vs. "Disney Villains" - "Rescue the Princess" (24 - 18)
Match 7: "Basketballers" vs. "Electromagnetic Pulse" - "Electromagnetic Pulse" (21 - 25)
Match 8: "Dark Lords" vs. "Human Mental Prowess" - "Human Mental Prowess" (30 - 32)
Match 9: "Crazy Supernatural Killers" vs. "Chaotic Genius" - "Chaotic Genius" (17 - 19)
Match 10: "Final Fantasy Villains" vs. "Psychic Monsters" - "Final Fantasy Villains" (26 - 22)
Match 11: "Assassins" vs. "Micro Mech" - "Micro Mech" (12 - 26)
Match 12: "Aimbot" vs. "The Vampire Slayers" - "Aimbot" (24 - 20)
Match 13: "Way of the Warrior" vs. "Viva la Revolution" - ???
Match 14: "Insane" vs. "Mythology" - ???
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Who is Amon? I think I know who V is (V for Vendetta, right?)
Bingo. The V here is the main character from V for Vendetta. They're paired together for their similar goals, motivations, ideals... and sense of fashion.
Amon is the main antagonist of Avatar: The Legend of Korra (set after Avatar Aang passed on in the original series), leader of the anti-bender resistance called the Equalists, and is a walking spoiler bomb because if you have no clue who he is, and you want to watch his series, then you really don't want to know what his powers are. This is your last chance to watch the entire season of Legend of Korra this week (it's a great series, and the mystery behind Amon is the epic half of what drives the plot; and what makes him terrifying). I'll be marking all my arguments involving him with spoilers though (and I strongly suggest that others do the same).
For those of you who do want to get spoiled (or don't mind getting spoiled), here's a link to his bio on the Avatar Wiki. Read at your own risk. You've been warned.
Of course, this is not an issue for his opponents, who know everything about him and V as per the rules of the contest, and therefore, the rebels have no reason to hold back... which makes this battle very interesting indeed.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I will side with the corrupt magic user and the explosives expert, Viva La Revlution all the way my friend. blood bending (which is stated to be something he does WELL and often, is going to be the "I win botton here" I don't see anything Way of the Warrarer has to stop this, they walk up on to mines that V places and they blow them selves up.
I will side with the corrupt magic user and the explosives expert, Viva La Revlution all the way my friend. blood bending (which is stated to be something he does WELL and often, is going to be the "I win botton here" I don't see anything Way of the Warrarer has to stop this, they walk up on to mines that V places and they blow them selves up.
Well, there are still some options Kamahl can use so he doesn't have to close in on the rebels. He can animate the terrain to fight for him, for instance (this is the Fist of Krosa version, after all, and putting down mines on terrain that Kamahl can animate might actually work in the warrior's favor), and pump up his army to huge proportions (with Kenshin getting a bonus, too). Also, since we have no reason to believe he lost his powers since his "change of mind", he still has access to a few ranged fire attacks that he can still use to try and zap them from afar.
I'm sure the two warriors will play it smart and come up with a strategy since they know all about what the rebels are capable during the prep time.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I don't disagree with you, However Viva la revelution are VERY good at making optimum use of their intel, part of their characters abiltiys is to make crazy good use of for knowelge and exploit the hell out of it.
I'm also gonna have to vote for Team Way of the Warrior. Tentatively at least, being that I nominated them. lol.
But also because I think they can utilize a great one two punch that Team Revolution doesn't have access to.
Kamahl will utilize the terrain to his advantage, generating a great number of minions during prep time. These little saprolingesque distractions will come in really handy for taking Amon and V's traps to the face or otherwise keeping Amon occupied enough so that he can't just Blood Bend his way to victory.
The two of the one-two comes from the fact that as the doubling minions are distracting Amon and V, then the Melee range comes into play. With which Amon and V become utterly decimated.
I also don't think any of Amon or V's inherent charisma will come into play for trying to convince any of Kenshin or Kamahl to turn on one another. Kenshin beat Shisio, who pretty much is an expy of Amon and V's motivations. So he's used to seeing through bull****. lol.
I think the only way Revolution wins here is on the back of Amon somehow being able to close the gap of range enough to Blood Bend both Kamahl and Kenshin at the same time. Because Kamahl and Kenshin are far and away the better fighters.
V's usefulness begins and ends with the 30 minute prep time. After he's done laying his traps he really can't do much in the way of ranged or melee combat against a magical barbarian and one of the best swordsman of fictional feudal Japan.
If they were on a more technological plane than I might give this one to Revolution, but this is an example where Terrain really cynches it for one team over another. Kamahal is the ONLY guy capable of abusing it, and he'll use it well.
The terrain's really the deciding factor here - without it, I'd have to think on this a lot longer. Kraken's pretty much covered everything I would have.
My guess is that Kamahl is going to make a 1/1 which is doubled because of the planes they are on. lol...
Amon will try to blood bend Kamahl and SamuraiX, then the two 1/1s will start beating on Amon which will break the lock.
Kamahl and Kenshin then murder him. Don't think V stands a chance. He's kinda just a strong human...
I vote for Way of the Warrior.
*checks Plane*
*checks Kamahl*
Wait, Kamahl doesn't make saprolings (or any other creature tokens for that matter), so how does that result in double the army?
Even assuming this is true, don't sell V short. He can act as Amon's bodyguard while they close in so Amon can use his powers on them.
Oh, and Kenshin is also "just a strong human", but I'd put him on level with V in combat, being that V's been exposed to experiments that made him a supersoldier and whatnot. He and Kenshin would probably fight to a standstill.
The two of the one-two comes from the fact that as the doubling minions are distracting Amon and V, then the Melee range comes into play. With which Amon and V become utterly decimated.
I think the only way Revolution wins here is on the back of Amon somehow being able to close the gap of range enough to Blood Bend both Kamahl and Kenshin at the same time. Because Kamahl and Kenshin are far and away the better fighters.
Uhm... not really, because...
Actually, Amon's range is pretty far. The man can manipulate an entire group of people in a large room and incapacitate them, and his bloodbending is psychic. Unlike most Benders (including the Avatar himself) Amon doesn't even have to move to use it, just think about it (his father, who is arguably weaker than Amon himself, could do it while having both his hands tied behind his back), and he's perhaps the strongest Waterbender in the series as a consequence. If the battle gets anywhere within melee range, and Amon is still concious, Kenshin and Kamahl are screwed (he only needs around five seconds with Kamahl to take his powers away by severing his connection to the elements and blocking his chi, and bloodbending at the speed of thought would allow him to incapacitate them long enough to do that). One could even argue that all he really needs is line of sight to operate his bloodbending (and even then, perhaps not because he can "sense" if there's water around... like the water in his opponent's bodies...)
V's usefulness begins and ends with the 30 minute prep time. After he's done laying his traps he really can't do much in the way of ranged or melee combat against a magical barbarian and one of the best swordsman of fictional feudal Japan.
While I'm not going to argue that V could take Kamahl, I'm pretty sure he'd put up a good fight against Kenshin. V was exposed to experiments that made him superhuman, capable of taking down an entire room of armed gunmen with nothing but knives. IIRC, Kenshin can do something similar, leaving the two perhaps evenly matched.
If they were on a more technological plane than I might give this one to Revolution, but this is an example where Terrain really cynches it for one team over another. Kamahal is the ONLY guy capable of abusing it, and he'll use it well.
The terrain's really the deciding factor here - without it, I'd have to think on this a lot longer. Kraken's pretty much covered everything I would have.
Well, the terrain is cityscape, which V and Amon are both used to fighting in, as opposed to Kahmahl and Kenshin who would rather just fight in the wild or in an arena. Amon and V both have experience in using stealth in a large city area, so the terrain might not be that lopsided in Way of the Warrior's favor. If the rebels get close enough with their stealth capabilities to get the drop on the two warriors, or worse, if they never see their opponents coming...
Tally:
Poll votes:
Way of the Warrior - 7
Viva la Revolution - 5
Post votes:
Way of the Warrior - 3
Viva la Revolution - 2
Total votes:
Way of the Warrior - 10
Viva la Revolution - 7
Unlike the other thread, this one seems a bit more even so far.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I guess it all comes to Amon's range and how many bodies he can bloodbend at the same time. Even if he couldnt bloodbend all of them at all times, he could incapacitate some and let V finish them off, then go and bend others. Rinse and repeat.
To be honest if Kamahl made tokens I would hand him this victory due to the plane .... however since we are not just going on the card but the character , doesn't kamahl kinda have access to the sword with the mirrari on the hilt ..... you know that insanely powerful artifact ???
He did, but...
...events of the plot forced him to forsake the sword (twice, once after killing Laquatus and a second time after he kills Karona), since it was driving him insane. If this was his Pit Fighter self, he would definitely have access, and would likely use it without hesitation, but seeing as he gave it up when he became the Fist of Krosa, I don't think he'd be that desperate as to risk insanity for a power boost. If he were to use the Mirari, he'd probably go crazy and likely kill Kenshin (or force him to defect; the two rebels would welcome him, I think), leaving Amon and V to deal with a raging barbarian.
Well, Kamahl does have magic that can make tokens, but the rules of the tournament do specify that summoning isn't allowed, so...
In his younger years, Kamahl was a pit fighter who is super fast, super strong, and capable of firing out red magic at a moment's notice. This is him as he's represented in his first card.
After he nearly goes mad with power using the Mirari (which is detailed in my reply to Belgareth), he decides to give it up and become a druid to cleanse his spirit from the negative influence of the artifact. He then gains druidic powers on top of his old abilities, if the flavor text of his second card is to be believed.
He then becomes instrumental in the battle against Karona, and becomes a hero in Dominarian legend. He's a competent green and red magic user who has much fighting experience, huge weapons, can animate lands and empower his allies, and can also use his speed, strength, and fire magic to gain the upper hand against opponents.
I guess it all comes to Amon's range and how many bodies he can bloodbend at the same time. Even if he couldnt bloodbend all of them at all times, he could incapacitate some and let V finish them off, then go and bend others. Rinse and repeat.
Some comments on that...
First, Amon's range is potentially quite massive. In the series, all he needs to do is sense his opponent to be able to bloodbend them, and his range is more or less line of sight. The number of opponents he could bend at a time ranges from around five (like his weaker younger brother was able to do to his elite bodyguards) to around thirty to forty (like his weaker father was able to do in a courtroom full of people, with the most powerful benders in the world present, with his hands tied). Amon is arguably more powerful than both of them, so his psychic bloodbending should be off the scale.
Second, if Kamahl animates lands to fight against them, they probably don't have any blood to bend. The two rebels will have to use weapons or good old martial arts skills to dispatch them, which should be when V shines (using his equipment) or when Amon pulls out the Equalist technology to set the forests on fire or whatnot. Given Kamahl's ability to temporarily buff that army up, they could reasonably wear the two rebels down before engaging (and quite frankly, I think they have to, since engaging Amon head on without some sort of strategy is suicide for anyone whose physiology has water in it).
I've never had a battle with this many significant plot-based spoilers in it before.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
This is a tough one. I like the setting choice here. City-scape for V, yet plenty of plants and animals for Kamahl to work with.
All four of these guys are among the best martial artists in their respective universes. If this were melee alone, it's extremely tough to call. I think it's pretty safe to just take V and Kenshin and set them aside for this reason - traps and fighting is not going to win this. This match is going to come down to super powers that neither of them really have.
So Amon seems pretty ridiculous. No doubt he would beat Kamahl (or basically anyone, for that matter!) in a strait fight. I guess it's lucky that Kamahl doesn't have to make this a strait fight. There's not a lot of water around here for Amon to make good use of, so I doubt he could stand for long against the hordes of animated plants, animals and elementals that happen to be milling around the Conclave under Kamahl's control. Kamahl himself, fully aware of Amon's powers, will be hiding somewhere safe and comfortable.
So, yeah, I guess the setting really does favour one team after all. Warriors takes it.
Kamahl himself, fully aware of Amon's powers, will be hiding somewhere safe and comfortable.
I dunno, Kamahl really isn't much of a strategist. Amon and V are. I suspect they'd have little trouble tricking Kamahl into Amon's bending range. I don't know much about Kenshin, but if he can't recognize and counteract V and Amon's stratagems, then team "Way of the Warrior" is screwed.
And let's not forget greens ability to Withstand Death, I wouldn't think Bloodbending would be able to kill Kamahl outright. He has defenses.
Just because Kamahl has access to red and green spells, doesn't mean he has access to every red and green spell.
Kamahl, even after becoming a druid, has never been one to bother with defensive spells. Stuff like indestructibility and regeneration really aren't in Kamahl's wheelhouse.
Wait, Kamahl doesn't make saprolings (or any other creature tokens for that matter), so how does that result in double the army?
I was making a comment about the flavor of Kamahls ability. I nominated him, I know he doesnt explicitly make saprolings. But he modifies lands to become creatures, which when you're dealing with trees, thematically would look like a saproling.
If morphing the land doesn't count as token generation, and the rules explicitly state that there is no summoning...why did you even include this plane in the list of possible planes? It presents no bonus' or detriments to anybody under that context.
Even assuming this is true, don't sell V short. He can act as Amon's bodyguard while they close in so Amon can use his powers on them.
I have a hard time believing that V is going to be comfortable being a human meat shield when his revolutionist ego would want to be the guy in charge of the operation, but that's besides any point.
Oh, and Kenshin is also "just a strong human", but I'd put him on level with V in combat, being that V's been exposed to experiments that made him a supersoldier and whatnot. He and Kenshin would probably fight to a standstill.
Uhm...Kenshin moves at a faster rate than even the eye can see during some of his better sword wielding techniques. I don't even think Kamahl could in a direct physical confrontation, even with magic.
Uhm... not really, because...
Actually, Amon's range is pretty far. The man can manipulate an entire group of people in a large room and incapacitate them, and his bloodbending is psychic. Unlike most Benders (including the Avatar himself) Amon doesn't even have to move to use it, just think about it (his father, who is arguably weaker than Amon himself, could do it while having both his hands tied behind his back), and he's perhaps the strongest Waterbender in the series as a consequence. If the battle gets anywhere within melee range, and Amon is still concious, Kenshin and Kamahl are screwed (he only needs around five seconds with Kamahl to take his powers away by severing his connection to the elements and blocking his chi, and bloodbending at the speed of thought would allow him to incapacitate them long enough to do that). One could even argue that all he really needs is line of sight to operate his bloodbending (and even then, perhaps not because he can "sense" if there's water around... like the water in his opponent's bodies...)
I think unless Amon is some sort of a multi tasking God character, that he's not going to be able to just bloodbend Kamahl, Kenshin an an army of Tree Minions that have been created all during a 30 minute period at the same time.
When it comes to his ability to "dissect" Kamahls connection to the world and of mana, then you're also incorrect that Kamahl could be unwilling to use the Mirari Sword if that was proven as his only means of attack or ability to do damage.
Kamahl may be a repentant druid, but he is also a Barbarian and a fierce and competitive fighter. If he's aware that there is a dude who's capable of taking away his ability to do magic entirely, the Mirari Blade is coming into play. I even included it in his write up saying that he has access to it as apart of one of his selling points because I knew that Kamahl just by himself would be no match normally going toe to toe with Planeswalkers and Gods.
While I'm not going to argue that V could take Kamahl, I'm pretty sure he'd put up a good fight against Kenshin. V was exposed to experiments that made him superhuman, capable of taking down an entire room of armed gunmen with nothing but knives. IIRC, Kenshin can do something similar, leaving the two perhaps evenly matched.
V's claim to fame is assassinating fat, lazy, corrupt politicians and their yellow spined armed guards. And he still ends up biting off more than he can chew and getting shot multiple times, leading to his death.
Kenshin schools murderous assassins that even the military fears too much to oppose, I don't think they are comparable. Except for the fact that they are both perfectly mortal, and if they ARE struck by blades or shot with guns, they will go down relatively easy. But Kenshin far and away is the superior damage dealer.
Well, the terrain is cityscape, which V and Amon are both used to fighting in, as opposed to Kahmahl and Kenshin who would rather just fight in the wild or in an arena. Amon and V both have experience in using stealth in a large city area, so the terrain might not be that lopsided in Way of the Warrior's favor. If the rebels get close enough with their stealth capabilities to get the drop on the two warriors, or worse, if they never see their opponents coming...
The Cityscape does definitely fit into V's favor with his ability to traverse these regions rather easily. But Kenshin still has even greater sensory abilities that allow him to catch ninjas off guard and notice what nobody else does based on the slightest of hints that he's in danger.
Kamahl? Not so much. He is a dense barbarian after all. But so long as Kenshin and Kamahl stick together, Himura won't let V get the jump on them.
And I thought Among wasn't going to be engaging in stealth anyway, considering he can apparently Bloodbend people from halfway across the world with his eyes closed just because he's aware of their existence?
And yet he dies in an exploding boat. Lovely.
Your points bring to light that V and Amon probably don't get smoke as easily as I initially believed. But I still surmise that if this gets anywhere close to a Melee Fight, than Warriors outclass the Revolutionists.
All four of these guys are among the best martial artists in their respective universes. If this were melee alone, it's extremely tough to call. I think it's pretty safe to just take V and Kenshin and set them aside for this reason - traps and fighting is not going to win this. This match is going to come down to super powers that neither of them really have.
Actually, I envision that at some point, V and Kenshin will break away from Kamahl and Amon as the battle progresses, and the two of them will probably engage each other in an epic showdown.
So Amon seems pretty ridiculous. No doubt he would beat Kamahl (or basically anyone, for that matter!) in a strait fight.
Powerful as Amon is, he's not invincible. There are several teams in the tournament who are either inherently resistant to his abilities or not affected by it at all. "Micro Mech" comes to mind. "By Your Powers Combined" would be a pretty solid win too, because while they could probably take down Captain Planet with their combined hate, and Aang in the Avatar State is completely immune to Amon's powers. Against other opponents with certain physiological qualities, however...
I guess it's lucky that Kamahl doesn't have to make this a strait fight. There's not a lot of water around here for Amon to make good use of, so I doubt he could stand for long against the hordes of animated plants, animals and elementals that happen to be milling around the Conclave under Kamahl's control. Kamahl himself, fully aware of Amon's powers, will be hiding somewhere safe and comfortable.
Quite true. In my mind, if this had been in another terrain, Amon would quite literally just have to walk up to the other team and give them a death glare to win. In this case, Kamahl has to take advantage of the fact that there's some nature here for him to manipulate to confront them indirectly.
Master tacticians that the two Rebels are, however, they will likely see this coming and focus all their efforts and stealth into finding a way to take down the Warriors while avoiding anything Kamahl can cook up.
With Kenshin, people forgot, Kamahl can make him stronger.
Also, Since Kamahl has access to Red and Green Mana, I'd say Lightning Bolt and Giant Growth are right up his alley, eh?
So, along with turning the terrain into animate 1/1s, he could end up making them bigger with overrun too...
And let's not forget greens ability to Withstand Death, I wouldn't think Bloodbending would be able to kill Kamahl outright. He has defenses.
I'm solidly locking in my vote for Way of the Warrior.
I don't disagree with your analysis of Kamahl's offensive magic, but I do agree with theMarc in that we probably can't count defensive spells to be the things Kamahl makes use of on a routine basis. Not that it would help though, because despite being a terrifying villain, Amon is not a killer, and he can use his powers to KO or incapacitate an opponent, even if they were indestructible, which is a perfectly legal way of winning in this tournament.
I was making a comment about the flavor of Kamahls ability. I nominated him, I know he doesnt explicitly make saprolings. But he modifies lands to become creatures, which when you're dealing with trees, thematically would look like a saproling.
If morphing the land doesn't count as token generation, and the rules explicitly state that there is no summoning...why did you even include this plane in the list of possible planes? It presents no bonus' or detriments to anybody under that context.
Because it looks pretty?
All jokes aside, there are three reasons I included it:
1. It's on Ravnica, and one person wanted all the Planes we had involving Ravnica in the tournament, so I kept it.
2. You forget it has a second ability that doubles the amount of counters on permanents as well, which could have been useful depending on who was nominated, and which Kamahl might still exploit.
3. While it seems to have no mechanical use, it can also have plenty of thematic uses too, like helping a nature hero like Kamahl out.
Sometimes a terrain just doesn't have any effects on the match, and sometimes it does. It's just the luck of the draw at work here. I think the terrain is rather even on both sides though. It's city enough for the Rebels to make good use of their abilities, and nature enough for the Warriors to feel at home with their wandering selves.
I have a hard time believing that V is going to be comfortable being a human meat shield when his revolutionist ego would want to be the guy in charge of the operation, but that's besides any point.
Amon definitely won't treat him as a pawn. The man believes in equality so much that he's willing to supress four entire races of elemental martial artists to give power back to the ordinary folk. If anything, he'll see V as a valued lieutenant, and probably invite him to join his cause as an equal partner for all their similarities and joint desire for anarchy.
I think unless Amon is some sort of a multi tasking God character, that he's not going to be able to just bloodbend Kamahl, Kenshin an an army of Tree Minions that have been created all during a 30 minute period at the same time.
I don't even think he could use his powers that way on the animated lands. He'd be better off trying to drain the water out of them using his abilities. In the first series, in Aang's time, the very first person who uses bloodbending proves that there's water in everything and subsequently drains it out of the plants in the area, killing them. If Kamahl sends a few trees after them, Amon can (and probably should) realistically drain them of water and turn them into timber. This is also assuming that the Rebels choose to fight the trees in the first place. I think they'd much rather be the tacticians that they are and slink around using stealth to avoid confrontation with the elementals until they can engage the Warriors head on. V could even rig explosives at various points in the arena to create huge distractions that will lure Kamahl's forces into different areas where the Rebels will probably not be.
Oh, and for the record, Amon and family are great multitaskers. We're talking about his father being capable of manipulating at least 30 people easily at once, hands tied, many of them present being some of the most powerful warriors in their universe. Amon, who is even more powerful, could probably subdue and control an entire battalion if necessary.
When it comes to his ability to "dissect" Kamahls connection to the world and of mana, then you're also incorrect that Kamahl could be unwilling to use the Mirari Sword if that was proven as his only means of attack or ability to do damage.
Kamahl may be a repentant druid, but he is also a Barbarian and a fierce and competitive fighter. If he's aware that there is a dude who's capable of taking away his ability to do magic entirely, the Mirari Blade is coming into play. I even included it in his write up saying that he has access to it as apart of one of his selling points because I knew that Kamahl just by himself would be no match normally going toe to toe with Planeswalkers and Gods.
Fair enough. Since you originally nominated the team, you should know them best, so if Kamahl has access to the Mirari, how do you think he'd use it in this match? Would there be anything in his repertoire that could hinder Amon from, I don't know, forcing Kamahl to unwillingly give the weapon to him? Or prevent Amon from using his powers to control Kenshin (or even superpowered Kenshin, assuming Kamahl buffs him) into fighting his own partner?
V's claim to fame is assassinating fat, lazy, corrupt politicians and their yellow spined armed guards. And he still ends up biting off more than he can chew and getting shot multiple times, leading to his death.
Because he didn't need to live anymore. As far as he was concerned, he already won. He willingly walked into that trap to make himself a symbol and prove that ideas are hard to kill, withstanding countless rounds of bullets blasted into his body without retaliating, then turning on his attackers, killing them with knives before they could reload, and then having enough willpower to proceed with his final plan. That's some ridiculous stamina and endurance, if you ask me.
Kenshin schools murderous assassins that even the military fears too much to oppose, I don't think they are comparable. Except for the fact that they are both perfectly mortal, and if they ARE struck by blades or shot with guns, they will go down relatively easy. But Kenshin far and away is the superior damage dealer.
Maybe Kenshin is indeed stronger and faster. Maybe. V is almost certainly tougher. In his final battle, V, as stated above, repeated here for emphasis, took the full blasts of *at least* ten armed gunmen simultaneously, emptying their clips at point blank range, did not die from it, and proceeded to kill them all with melee weapons before any of them had time to reload (link to the event: here). If V's going down, Kenshin had better be ready to deal a lot of damage.
But Kenshin still has even greater sensory abilities that allow him to catch ninjas off guard and notice what nobody else does based on the slightest of hints that he's in danger.
Kamahl? Not so much. He is a dense barbarian after all. But so long as Kenshin and Kamahl stick together, Himura won't let V get the jump on them.
Indeed. This is where Kenshin will come in handy because he will need to sense V and Amon closing in so that he and Kamahl can prepare themselves when the four actually engage in combat. It will be stealth versus detecting stealth which will be vital for this match, methinks.
And I thought Among wasn't going to be engaging in stealth anyway, considering he can apparently Bloodbend people from halfway across the world with his eyes closed just because he's aware of their existence?
I thought you and I both assumed they'd be acting in character? While it's true that Amon can do exactly what you just described (minus the halfway across the world part; I don't think he has that much range), I'm not the kind of guy who believes he'll drop character and go all out right off the bat. If anything, he'll use his knowledge of Kenshin and Kamahl to sympathise with them and give them a lecture about understanding their cause and what they were fighting for, and what a pity it would be for him to have to fight against fellow soldiers.
Besides, his powers do have limits. One of them is range. He does need to get close enough to use them, and to strip them of their powers, he needs to actually lay his hands on them. I, for one, solidly believe that V and Amon will use their stealth to close in on the other team, and not just march in with an arrogant air, because both of these men are not like others who are afraid to do their own dirty work with stealth and secrecy.
If you really did your homework, you'd know that he died willingly at the hands of his brother, most likely to repent for his past actions. The tear he sheds before he dies indicates that he knew what was coming, and simply chose not to stop it.
Your points bring to light that V and Amon probably don't get smoke as easily as I initially believed. But I still surmise that if this gets anywhere close to a Melee Fight, than Warriors outclass the Revolutionists.
I still contend that if this gets into melee range it will be a win for the Revolutionists, but then we're just going to split hairs about their martial skill when I think that the real key to winning would be if Kamahl's Mirari powers match up to Amon's ability to almost instantly subdue the other team with incapacitation or a KO. In fact, one could make an interesting case that Kamahl's strength of will is unlike anything Amon has faced before, so maybe, just maybe, he can't control him. Considering that Amon can subdue large groups of people, however, this would be quite a case to make.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Interesting Poring.
Though I would argue it's unlikely Kamahl could be controlled by Amon as if he still has access to the Mirrari (and for the record there is overlap in story where he is both druidy and in possesion of it ) he would already have the mirrari controlling his actions to some extent.
Now we can debate which mind control is stronger but since the mirrari is an artifact of world bending proportions and could grant the users desires/wishes and was instrumental in the fight against a godlike being (Karona) , my money is on the mirrari not letting someone else over rule it's control.
Mind control is one thing, but bloodbending is a very special kind of control because it manipulates the body. We're not talking about Prof. Xavier here. In the Avatar series, people under the influence of Amon's powers know perfectly well what they're doing, but can't do anything about it because their bodies have been hijacked. Even if the Mirari had influence over his mind (which, based on the story, is not something that Kamahl will allow to happen to himself; heck, the Mirari's mindscrew is exactly why he shifted from R to G, to prevent that from happening again), Kamahl's body might be a different issue entirely.
In short, I think that we're dealing with two entirely different kinds of control here. The Mirari influences the mind to think things, and the person under the influence of its powers has relative freedom to fight against it or to carry out what he or she believes to be the truth under its influence. Amon influences the body to do things, and while the person under the inflence of his powers has the freedom to think of whatever they want to, their bodies will be at the mercy of the bloodbender controlling them.
Now, unless someone here who is better versed in philosophy than I am can tell me exactly how the mind and body are connected or separated (which has been a problem of philosophy ever since René Descartes proposed it in his Meditations), I'm going to work under the idea that these two types of control are very different things.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
In this case, Kamahl has to take advantage of the fact that there's some nature here for him to manipulate to confront them indirectly.
Master tacticians that the two Rebels are, however, they will likely see this coming and focus all their efforts and stealth into finding a way to take down the Warriors while avoiding anything Kamahl can cook up.
Stealth could definitely lead to victory here, yes. Kamahl's army of plants will certainly have a tough time finding these guys, so I'll agree that it won't be that easy.
I also hadn't considered that Kamahl's in possession of the Mirari. It makes sense I guess since he did have it right up until the end of his story, but I'm not sure whether this will help him or hurt him in these fights. It can basically supercharge spells to ridiculous degrees, but every time it's been used the owner has been killed when his spell gets out of control.
One thing it's not going to do is grant protection from bloodbending. Regardless of the mind vs. body debate, the Mirari's not so good when it comes to defense as far as I'm aware. It fulfils your desires, but only when those desires are selfish and greedy it seems.
So where does that leave this fight... Kamahl could use the Mirari to kill both V and Amon with a fire spell or something. Very likely that the Mirari would make sure this works, even if the first few firebolts miss, the next thousand won't as the spell is charged into a full out firestorm. Kamahl would die in the process. Hopefully Kenshin is far enough away, giving the Warriors the win. Sort of fits with Kamahl's style of sacrifice for the greater good too. So that works, I guess.
Can Amon sense and control someone without seeing them? Like the map in a first-person shooter can see your opponents on that radar thing? If so, that's going to be a problem.
Can Amon sense and control someone without seeing them? Like the map in a first-person shooter can see your opponents on that radar thing? If so, that's going to be a problem.
I'll let you see what someone like Amon can do using this video.
Now, the person being put on trial in the video isn't Amon, it's Yakone, his crimelord father. Some years after that, he had two sons, and Amon, the older one, was raised from a young age to surpass even his father's skills in psychic bloodbending, and was a waterbending prodigy who mastered Yakone's forbidden arts at the age of fourteen, and is therefore more powerful than his father by now, and even the other bloodbender in the family, his brother, whom he beats rather handily during the course of the series.
As you can see, at one point in the video, Yakone manages to control the entire courtroom full of people without even needing to look at all of them. He even manages to subdue them all (except the adult Aang, because he's, you know, the spirit of the earth incarnate and all that). He also would have killed the Avatar, if it wasn't for... well, I won't spoil the whole video for you.
Therefore, I don't think it's illogical to make the conclusion that Amon could do the same, if not even better, so yes, he can control someone without line of sight, as long as he's within range.
As for sensing someone, that's debatable, but highly skilled benders in the Avatar series have developed a sort of sixth sense when it comes to knowing if their element is present in even incredibly tiny amounts, such as how earthbenders can detect small impurities in metal in order to manipulate it by using the earth chunks in it, or how waterbenders are able to pull out water from other life forms, including little ones like flowers and grass, if necessary.
If you ask me, the answer would be yes to both questions (but again, only if Amon is within range), though I would prefer a second opinion from someone who has watched "The Legend of Korra" before you take my word for it.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I'd just like to add, I think Kamahl would have access to an Upwelling type of spell too. and During prep time he would use it on himself to stockpile mana in preparation for the battle.
another question is, how many Animate Lands can Kamahl make? His card doesn't have a limit, and I'm pretty sure if he has a TON of mana, he'd animate a LOT of the terrain.
I'm not sure why we're still counting V in the fight here, I'd say Kamahl casts Might of Old Krosa on Kenshin, Kenshin disposes of V.
I'm just not sure about Amon though... Sure, Kamahl doesn't practice many defensive magics regularly. But wouldn't he need to have known some to even stand a chance against a god like Karona?
Would it be a bit much to ask that Kamahl has Hexproof in relation to Bloodbending? After all, he's kinda done being a puppet, that's why he's a druid now, I don't think he'd so easily let his body be controlled like a puppet.
I still have faith in Way of the Warrior, and i'm not trying to discount Amon too easily here. but it would seem that he'd be a bit OP for a competition like this unless there were certain checks to his power, else one could claim that he could bloodbend Goku and control his body. I'm just saying his power level needs to be checked a bit by the terrain or something. Certainly a place rich in Green and White mana would be enough to grant Kamahl a small ward of Protection from something like that, couldn't it?
Just a few questions I felt I should bring up, (PS, i'm still trying to watch the video, my internet connection still sucks...lol)
EDIT: So, Historically, Bloodbending could only be done during a full-moon? How could Yakone/Amon then learn how to do it outside of a full moon? I'm confused....
EDIT2: So... That's Bloodbending? That seems like a very powerful effect and it would seem that only Plot Armor is able to stop it (Aang being the Avatar of course...)
...I still don't give V much of a chance of survival though, lol.
I'd just like to add, I think Kamahl would have access to an Upwelling type of spell too. and During prep time he would use it on himself to stockpile mana in preparation for the battle.
another question is, how many Animate Lands can Kamahl make? His card doesn't have a limit, and I'm pretty sure if he has a TON of mana, he'd animate a LOT of the terrain.
I'm not sure why we're still counting V in the fight here, I'd say Kamahl casts Might of Old Krosa on Kenshin, Kenshin disposes of V.
I'm just not sure about Amon though... Sure, Kamahl doesn't practice many defensive magics regularly. But wouldn't he need to have known some to even stand a chance against a god like Karona?
Would it be a bit much to ask that Kamahl has Hexproof in relation to Bloodbending? After all, he's kinda done being a puppet, that's why he's a druid now, I don't think he'd so easily let his body be controlled like a puppet.
I still have faith in Way of the Warrior, and i'm not trying to discount Amon too easily here. but it would seem that he'd be a bit OP for a competition like this unless there were certain checks to his power, else one could claim that he could bloodbend Goku and control his body. I'm just saying his power level needs to be checked a bit by the terrain or something. Certainly a place rich in Green and White mana would be enough to grant Kamahl a small ward of Protection from something like that, couldn't it?
Just a few questions I felt I should bring up, (PS, i'm still trying to watch the video, my internet connection still sucks...lol)
True but how much land IS their to animate? if whole Tropical islands are only a single target, Huge citys (of brass) are single targets, then it could be argued that this is alittle like a single snow covered planes, not enough land TO animate a huge army. His card can still be mindcontroled, or bribed, or act of treasoned, ect, their is nothing in his power list that suggests he should be immune to such an attack, he has strong will power but guess what so do most blue mages, (likely stronger at that)
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There will now be two matches every week, each one also lasting a week (except semi-finals and finals, those last for two weeks each) until the conclusion of the tournament, and you're just in time for Round 1.
One of this week’s matches:
Team "Way of the Warrior" - Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Kenshin Himura
vs.
Team "Viva la Revolution" - Amon and V
Fighting in: The Selesnya Loft Gardens (Ravnica)
The members of both teams are transported to a different dimension with all information about their opponents “uploaded” into their minds. They have 30 minutes to prepare and talk to each other (they don’t know anything about each other as teammates, save for any experience from previous matches of this same tournament), and will also have full access to any technology, magic, weaponry, resources, etc. which they would routinely be able to use from their respective universes. Teammates may share resources with each other. Afterwards, both teams are teleported to the randomly chosen plane, which has mystically sealed off so that none of them can escape the battlefield in any way. The team that manages to knock out and/or kill both members of the opposing team will be declared the winner. There is no time limit.
Write ups for both teams:
Team "Way of the Warrior" - Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Kenshin Himura
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa is a former Red Barbarian of Otaria in the Magic the Gathering Multiverse. As a Barbarian, he was arguably the strongest fighter on the entire plane, and was capable of defeating many enemies by himself.
However, after losing his sister and realizing the destruction that he had caused for his greed of the Mirari sword, he devoted his life to becoming a protector of the Krosan Forest. He is also arguably even stronger with his renewed blessings of nature, having command over trees, plants and animal life, with losing none of his combat prowess. At the pinnacle of his performance, he was able to defeat the Godlike creature Karona and restore peace to the entire plane of Otaria.
Himura Kenshin is the well known protagonist of the Rurouni Kenshin and Samurai X series. Once arguably the most powerful assassin battousi in all of Japan, he was known to slaughter hundreds if not thousands of people in the name of the Meiji restoration.
After the war was finally over, Kenshin became a wandering ronin, unwilling to kill anymore and seeking atonement for the wrongs he had caused through his killing. Even after adopting the way of the peaceful warrior, Kenshin has shown time and again that he has lost none of his strength from his time as the Battousi. He voluntarily uses a reverse blade sword specifically not to kill any of his opponents, but is still able to subdue and defeat even the strongest swordsman of his time. The pinnacle of his strength is shown through his ability to defeat Shisio, a man so dangerous that it was thought that he was unbeatable. Shisio was so powerful even, that after his death he declared that he would begin a campaign to conquer hell. That gives you a good idea of how strong he was, and how much stronger Kenshin was with his ability to defeat him.
Together, these two fighters share a similar philosophy of preferring a life of peace and nature rather than killing and violence. But when drawn to protect the things they love most, they will do anything and everything needed to neutralize evil.
Team "Viva la Revolution" - Amon and V
Both men with a vicious desire for vengeance, a dark and secret past, and a hatred for the corrupt and oppressive system that brings down the masses, these are the champions of rebellion, secrecy and are certainly cut of the same cloth. Amon is a supreme martial artist with the mysterious power to remove the abilities of other superpowered beings, and V is a skilled fighter with various weapons and a powerful arsenal. Together, these two will make the powerful crumble in the name of the weak and the downtrodden.
How do I vote for the team I like? Well, I'm glad you asked...
Now, who wins this match?
Round 1
Match 1: "Godslayer" vs. "Wizard Guide" - "Wizard Guide" (25 - 39)
Match 2: "Cybernetic Cannon" vs. "By Your Powers Combined" - "By Your Powers Combined" (21 - 24)
Match 3: "Smash" vs. "Metal Men" - "Metal Men" (22 - 27)
Match 4: "Justice For All" vs. "Speed" - "Justice For All" (25 - 20)
Match 5: "Fun Size" vs. "Pest Control Problem" - "Fun Size" (22 - 14)
Match 6: "Rescue the Princess" vs. "Disney Villains" - "Rescue the Princess" (24 - 18)
Match 7: "Basketballers" vs. "Electromagnetic Pulse" - "Electromagnetic Pulse" (21 - 25)
Match 8: "Dark Lords" vs. "Human Mental Prowess" - "Human Mental Prowess" (30 - 32)
Match 9: "Crazy Supernatural Killers" vs. "Chaotic Genius" - "Chaotic Genius" (17 - 19)
Match 10: "Final Fantasy Villains" vs. "Psychic Monsters" - "Final Fantasy Villains" (26 - 22)
Match 11: "Assassins" vs. "Micro Mech" - "Micro Mech" (12 - 26)
Match 12: "Aimbot" vs. "The Vampire Slayers" - "Aimbot" (24 - 20)
Match 13: "Way of the Warrior" vs. "Viva la Revolution" - ???
Match 14: "Insane" vs. "Mythology" - ???
How well do you do against one?
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Bingo. The V here is the main character from V for Vendetta. They're paired together for their similar goals, motivations, ideals... and sense of fashion.
Amon is the main antagonist of Avatar: The Legend of Korra (set after Avatar Aang passed on in the original series), leader of the anti-bender resistance called the Equalists, and is a walking spoiler bomb because if you have no clue who he is, and you want to watch his series, then you really don't want to know what his powers are. This is your last chance to watch the entire season of Legend of Korra this week (it's a great series, and the mystery behind Amon is the epic half of what drives the plot; and what makes him terrifying). I'll be marking all my arguments involving him with spoilers though (and I strongly suggest that others do the same).
Of course, this is not an issue for his opponents, who know everything about him and V as per the rules of the contest, and therefore, the rebels have no reason to hold back... which makes this battle very interesting indeed.
How well do you do against one?
Well, there are still some options Kamahl can use so he doesn't have to close in on the rebels. He can animate the terrain to fight for him, for instance (this is the Fist of Krosa version, after all, and putting down mines on terrain that Kamahl can animate might actually work in the warrior's favor), and pump up his army to huge proportions (with Kenshin getting a bonus, too). Also, since we have no reason to believe he lost his powers since his "change of mind", he still has access to a few ranged fire attacks that he can still use to try and zap them from afar.
I'm sure the two warriors will play it smart and come up with a strategy since they know all about what the rebels are capable during the prep time.
How well do you do against one?
Amon will try to blood bend Kamahl and SamuraiX, then the two 1/1s will start beating on Amon which will break the lock.
Kamahl and Kenshin then murder him. Don't think V stands a chance. He's kinda just a strong human...
I vote for Way of the Warrior.
But also because I think they can utilize a great one two punch that Team Revolution doesn't have access to.
Kamahl will utilize the terrain to his advantage, generating a great number of minions during prep time. These little saprolingesque distractions will come in really handy for taking Amon and V's traps to the face or otherwise keeping Amon occupied enough so that he can't just Blood Bend his way to victory.
The two of the one-two comes from the fact that as the doubling minions are distracting Amon and V, then the Melee range comes into play. With which Amon and V become utterly decimated.
I also don't think any of Amon or V's inherent charisma will come into play for trying to convince any of Kenshin or Kamahl to turn on one another. Kenshin beat Shisio, who pretty much is an expy of Amon and V's motivations. So he's used to seeing through bull****. lol.
I think the only way Revolution wins here is on the back of Amon somehow being able to close the gap of range enough to Blood Bend both Kamahl and Kenshin at the same time. Because Kamahl and Kenshin are far and away the better fighters.
V's usefulness begins and ends with the 30 minute prep time. After he's done laying his traps he really can't do much in the way of ranged or melee combat against a magical barbarian and one of the best swordsman of fictional feudal Japan.
If they were on a more technological plane than I might give this one to Revolution, but this is an example where Terrain really cynches it for one team over another. Kamahal is the ONLY guy capable of abusing it, and he'll use it well.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModThe terrain's really the deciding factor here - without it, I'd have to think on this a lot longer. Kraken's pretty much covered everything I would have.
*checks Plane*
*checks Kamahl*
Wait, Kamahl doesn't make saprolings (or any other creature tokens for that matter), so how does that result in double the army?
Even assuming this is true, don't sell V short. He can act as Amon's bodyguard while they close in so Amon can use his powers on them.
Oh, and Kenshin is also "just a strong human", but I'd put him on level with V in combat, being that V's been exposed to experiments that made him a supersoldier and whatnot. He and Kenshin would probably fight to a standstill.
Uhm... not really, because...
While I'm not going to argue that V could take Kamahl, I'm pretty sure he'd put up a good fight against Kenshin. V was exposed to experiments that made him superhuman, capable of taking down an entire room of armed gunmen with nothing but knives. IIRC, Kenshin can do something similar, leaving the two perhaps evenly matched.
Well, the terrain is cityscape, which V and Amon are both used to fighting in, as opposed to Kahmahl and Kenshin who would rather just fight in the wild or in an arena. Amon and V both have experience in using stealth in a large city area, so the terrain might not be that lopsided in Way of the Warrior's favor. If the rebels get close enough with their stealth capabilities to get the drop on the two warriors, or worse, if they never see their opponents coming...
Tally:
Poll votes:
Way of the Warrior - 7
Viva la Revolution - 5
Post votes:
Way of the Warrior - 3
Viva la Revolution - 2
Total votes:
Way of the Warrior - 10
Viva la Revolution - 7
Unlike the other thread, this one seems a bit more even so far.
How well do you do against one?
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He did, but...
Well, Kamahl does have magic that can make tokens, but the rules of the tournament do specify that summoning isn't allowed, so...
In summary...
After he nearly goes mad with power using the Mirari (which is detailed in my reply to Belgareth), he decides to give it up and become a druid to cleanse his spirit from the negative influence of the artifact. He then gains druidic powers on top of his old abilities, if the flavor text of his second card is to be believed.
He then becomes instrumental in the battle against Karona, and becomes a hero in Dominarian legend. He's a competent green and red magic user who has much fighting experience, huge weapons, can animate lands and empower his allies, and can also use his speed, strength, and fire magic to gain the upper hand against opponents.
Some comments on that...
Second, if Kamahl animates lands to fight against them, they probably don't have any blood to bend. The two rebels will have to use weapons or good old martial arts skills to dispatch them, which should be when V shines (using his equipment) or when Amon pulls out the Equalist technology to set the forests on fire or whatnot. Given Kamahl's ability to temporarily buff that army up, they could reasonably wear the two rebels down before engaging (and quite frankly, I think they have to, since engaging Amon head on without some sort of strategy is suicide for anyone whose physiology has water in it).
I've never had a battle with this many significant plot-based spoilers in it before.
How well do you do against one?
All four of these guys are among the best martial artists in their respective universes. If this were melee alone, it's extremely tough to call. I think it's pretty safe to just take V and Kenshin and set them aside for this reason - traps and fighting is not going to win this. This match is going to come down to super powers that neither of them really have.
So Amon seems pretty ridiculous. No doubt he would beat Kamahl (or basically anyone, for that matter!) in a strait fight. I guess it's lucky that Kamahl doesn't have to make this a strait fight. There's not a lot of water around here for Amon to make good use of, so I doubt he could stand for long against the hordes of animated plants, animals and elementals that happen to be milling around the Conclave under Kamahl's control. Kamahl himself, fully aware of Amon's powers, will be hiding somewhere safe and comfortable.
So, yeah, I guess the setting really does favour one team after all. Warriors takes it.
With Kenshin, people forgot, Kamahl can make him stronger.
Also, Since Kamahl has access to Red and Green Mana, I'd say Lightning Bolt and Giant Growth are right up his alley, eh?
So, along with turning the terrain into animate 1/1s, he could end up making them bigger with overrun too...
And let's not forget greens ability to Withstand Death, I wouldn't think Bloodbending would be able to kill Kamahl outright. He has defenses.
I'm solidly locking in my vote for Way of the Warrior.
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I dunno, Kamahl really isn't much of a strategist. Amon and V are. I suspect they'd have little trouble tricking Kamahl into Amon's bending range. I don't know much about Kenshin, but if he can't recognize and counteract V and Amon's stratagems, then team "Way of the Warrior" is screwed.
Just because Kamahl has access to red and green spells, doesn't mean he has access to every red and green spell.
Kamahl, even after becoming a druid, has never been one to bother with defensive spells. Stuff like indestructibility and regeneration really aren't in Kamahl's wheelhouse.
I was making a comment about the flavor of Kamahls ability. I nominated him, I know he doesnt explicitly make saprolings. But he modifies lands to become creatures, which when you're dealing with trees, thematically would look like a saproling.
If morphing the land doesn't count as token generation, and the rules explicitly state that there is no summoning...why did you even include this plane in the list of possible planes? It presents no bonus' or detriments to anybody under that context.
I have a hard time believing that V is going to be comfortable being a human meat shield when his revolutionist ego would want to be the guy in charge of the operation, but that's besides any point.
Uhm...Kenshin moves at a faster rate than even the eye can see during some of his better sword wielding techniques. I don't even think Kamahl could in a direct physical confrontation, even with magic.
I think unless Amon is some sort of a multi tasking God character, that he's not going to be able to just bloodbend Kamahl, Kenshin an an army of Tree Minions that have been created all during a 30 minute period at the same time.
When it comes to his ability to "dissect" Kamahls connection to the world and of mana, then you're also incorrect that Kamahl could be unwilling to use the Mirari Sword if that was proven as his only means of attack or ability to do damage.
Kamahl may be a repentant druid, but he is also a Barbarian and a fierce and competitive fighter. If he's aware that there is a dude who's capable of taking away his ability to do magic entirely, the Mirari Blade is coming into play. I even included it in his write up saying that he has access to it as apart of one of his selling points because I knew that Kamahl just by himself would be no match normally going toe to toe with Planeswalkers and Gods.
V's claim to fame is assassinating fat, lazy, corrupt politicians and their yellow spined armed guards. And he still ends up biting off more than he can chew and getting shot multiple times, leading to his death.
Kenshin schools murderous assassins that even the military fears too much to oppose, I don't think they are comparable. Except for the fact that they are both perfectly mortal, and if they ARE struck by blades or shot with guns, they will go down relatively easy. But Kenshin far and away is the superior damage dealer.
The Cityscape does definitely fit into V's favor with his ability to traverse these regions rather easily. But Kenshin still has even greater sensory abilities that allow him to catch ninjas off guard and notice what nobody else does based on the slightest of hints that he's in danger.
Kamahl? Not so much. He is a dense barbarian after all. But so long as Kenshin and Kamahl stick together, Himura won't let V get the jump on them.
And I thought Among wasn't going to be engaging in stealth anyway, considering he can apparently Bloodbend people from halfway across the world with his eyes closed just because he's aware of their existence?
And yet he dies in an exploding boat. Lovely.
Your points bring to light that V and Amon probably don't get smoke as easily as I initially believed. But I still surmise that if this gets anywhere close to a Melee Fight, than Warriors outclass the Revolutionists.
WARNING. SPOILERS.
I agree with you in that the terrain provides advantages to both teams.
Actually, I envision that at some point, V and Kenshin will break away from Kamahl and Amon as the battle progresses, and the two of them will probably engage each other in an epic showdown.
Powerful as Amon is, he's not invincible. There are several teams in the tournament who are either inherently resistant to his abilities or not affected by it at all. "Micro Mech" comes to mind. "By Your Powers Combined" would be a pretty solid win too, because while they could probably take down Captain Planet with their combined hate, and Aang in the Avatar State is completely immune to Amon's powers. Against other opponents with certain physiological qualities, however...
Quite true. In my mind, if this had been in another terrain, Amon would quite literally just have to walk up to the other team and give them a death glare to win. In this case, Kamahl has to take advantage of the fact that there's some nature here for him to manipulate to confront them indirectly.
Master tacticians that the two Rebels are, however, they will likely see this coming and focus all their efforts and stealth into finding a way to take down the Warriors while avoiding anything Kamahl can cook up.
I don't disagree with your analysis of Kamahl's offensive magic, but I do agree with theMarc in that we probably can't count defensive spells to be the things Kamahl makes use of on a routine basis. Not that it would help though, because despite being a terrifying villain, Amon is not a killer, and he can use his powers to KO or incapacitate an opponent, even if they were indestructible, which is a perfectly legal way of winning in this tournament.
Because it looks pretty?
All jokes aside, there are three reasons I included it:
1. It's on Ravnica, and one person wanted all the Planes we had involving Ravnica in the tournament, so I kept it.
2. You forget it has a second ability that doubles the amount of counters on permanents as well, which could have been useful depending on who was nominated, and which Kamahl might still exploit.
3. While it seems to have no mechanical use, it can also have plenty of thematic uses too, like helping a nature hero like Kamahl out.
Sometimes a terrain just doesn't have any effects on the match, and sometimes it does. It's just the luck of the draw at work here. I think the terrain is rather even on both sides though. It's city enough for the Rebels to make good use of their abilities, and nature enough for the Warriors to feel at home with their wandering selves.
Amon definitely won't treat him as a pawn. The man believes in equality so much that he's willing to supress four entire races of elemental martial artists to give power back to the ordinary folk. If anything, he'll see V as a valued lieutenant, and probably invite him to join his cause as an equal partner for all their similarities and joint desire for anarchy.
I don't even think he could use his powers that way on the animated lands. He'd be better off trying to drain the water out of them using his abilities. In the first series, in Aang's time, the very first person who uses bloodbending proves that there's water in everything and subsequently drains it out of the plants in the area, killing them. If Kamahl sends a few trees after them, Amon can (and probably should) realistically drain them of water and turn them into timber. This is also assuming that the Rebels choose to fight the trees in the first place. I think they'd much rather be the tacticians that they are and slink around using stealth to avoid confrontation with the elementals until they can engage the Warriors head on. V could even rig explosives at various points in the arena to create huge distractions that will lure Kamahl's forces into different areas where the Rebels will probably not be.
Oh, and for the record, Amon and family are great multitaskers. We're talking about his father being capable of manipulating at least 30 people easily at once, hands tied, many of them present being some of the most powerful warriors in their universe. Amon, who is even more powerful, could probably subdue and control an entire battalion if necessary.
Fair enough. Since you originally nominated the team, you should know them best, so if Kamahl has access to the Mirari, how do you think he'd use it in this match? Would there be anything in his repertoire that could hinder Amon from, I don't know, forcing Kamahl to unwillingly give the weapon to him? Or prevent Amon from using his powers to control Kenshin (or even superpowered Kenshin, assuming Kamahl buffs him) into fighting his own partner?
Because he didn't need to live anymore. As far as he was concerned, he already won. He willingly walked into that trap to make himself a symbol and prove that ideas are hard to kill, withstanding countless rounds of bullets blasted into his body without retaliating, then turning on his attackers, killing them with knives before they could reload, and then having enough willpower to proceed with his final plan. That's some ridiculous stamina and endurance, if you ask me.
Maybe Kenshin is indeed stronger and faster. Maybe. V is almost certainly tougher. In his final battle, V, as stated above, repeated here for emphasis, took the full blasts of *at least* ten armed gunmen simultaneously, emptying their clips at point blank range, did not die from it, and proceeded to kill them all with melee weapons before any of them had time to reload (link to the event: here). If V's going down, Kenshin had better be ready to deal a lot of damage.
Amon, too. People seem to forget that Amon routinely fights his rebellion on the scene of a large city as well.
Indeed. This is where Kenshin will come in handy because he will need to sense V and Amon closing in so that he and Kamahl can prepare themselves when the four actually engage in combat. It will be stealth versus detecting stealth which will be vital for this match, methinks.
I thought you and I both assumed they'd be acting in character? While it's true that Amon can do exactly what you just described (minus the halfway across the world part; I don't think he has that much range), I'm not the kind of guy who believes he'll drop character and go all out right off the bat. If anything, he'll use his knowledge of Kenshin and Kamahl to sympathise with them and give them a lecture about understanding their cause and what they were fighting for, and what a pity it would be for him to have to fight against fellow soldiers.
Besides, his powers do have limits. One of them is range. He does need to get close enough to use them, and to strip them of their powers, he needs to actually lay his hands on them. I, for one, solidly believe that V and Amon will use their stealth to close in on the other team, and not just march in with an arrogant air, because both of these men are not like others who are afraid to do their own dirty work with stealth and secrecy.
If you really did your homework, you'd know that he died willingly at the hands of his brother, most likely to repent for his past actions. The tear he sheds before he dies indicates that he knew what was coming, and simply chose not to stop it.
I still contend that if this gets into melee range it will be a win for the Revolutionists, but then we're just going to split hairs about their martial skill when I think that the real key to winning would be if Kamahl's Mirari powers match up to Amon's ability to almost instantly subdue the other team with incapacitation or a KO. In fact, one could make an interesting case that Kamahl's strength of will is unlike anything Amon has faced before, so maybe, just maybe, he can't control him. Considering that Amon can subdue large groups of people, however, this would be quite a case to make.
I like this match. So many things to consider!
How well do you do against one?
Mind control is one thing, but bloodbending is a very special kind of control because it manipulates the body. We're not talking about Prof. Xavier here. In the Avatar series, people under the influence of Amon's powers know perfectly well what they're doing, but can't do anything about it because their bodies have been hijacked. Even if the Mirari had influence over his mind (which, based on the story, is not something that Kamahl will allow to happen to himself; heck, the Mirari's mindscrew is exactly why he shifted from R to G, to prevent that from happening again), Kamahl's body might be a different issue entirely.
In short, I think that we're dealing with two entirely different kinds of control here. The Mirari influences the mind to think things, and the person under the influence of its powers has relative freedom to fight against it or to carry out what he or she believes to be the truth under its influence. Amon influences the body to do things, and while the person under the inflence of his powers has the freedom to think of whatever they want to, their bodies will be at the mercy of the bloodbender controlling them.
Now, unless someone here who is better versed in philosophy than I am can tell me exactly how the mind and body are connected or separated (which has been a problem of philosophy ever since René Descartes proposed it in his Meditations), I'm going to work under the idea that these two types of control are very different things.
How well do you do against one?
Stealth could definitely lead to victory here, yes. Kamahl's army of plants will certainly have a tough time finding these guys, so I'll agree that it won't be that easy.
I also hadn't considered that Kamahl's in possession of the Mirari. It makes sense I guess since he did have it right up until the end of his story, but I'm not sure whether this will help him or hurt him in these fights. It can basically supercharge spells to ridiculous degrees, but every time it's been used the owner has been killed when his spell gets out of control.
One thing it's not going to do is grant protection from bloodbending. Regardless of the mind vs. body debate, the Mirari's not so good when it comes to defense as far as I'm aware. It fulfils your desires, but only when those desires are selfish and greedy it seems.
So where does that leave this fight... Kamahl could use the Mirari to kill both V and Amon with a fire spell or something. Very likely that the Mirari would make sure this works, even if the first few firebolts miss, the next thousand won't as the spell is charged into a full out firestorm. Kamahl would die in the process. Hopefully Kenshin is far enough away, giving the Warriors the win. Sort of fits with Kamahl's style of sacrifice for the greater good too. So that works, I guess.
Can Amon sense and control someone without seeing them? Like the map in a first-person shooter can see your opponents on that radar thing? If so, that's going to be a problem.
I'll let you see what someone like Amon can do using this video.
Now, the person being put on trial in the video isn't Amon, it's Yakone, his crimelord father. Some years after that, he had two sons, and Amon, the older one, was raised from a young age to surpass even his father's skills in psychic bloodbending, and was a waterbending prodigy who mastered Yakone's forbidden arts at the age of fourteen, and is therefore more powerful than his father by now, and even the other bloodbender in the family, his brother, whom he beats rather handily during the course of the series.
As you can see, at one point in the video, Yakone manages to control the entire courtroom full of people without even needing to look at all of them. He even manages to subdue them all (except the adult Aang, because he's, you know, the spirit of the earth incarnate and all that). He also would have killed the Avatar, if it wasn't for... well, I won't spoil the whole video for you.
Therefore, I don't think it's illogical to make the conclusion that Amon could do the same, if not even better, so yes, he can control someone without line of sight, as long as he's within range.
As for sensing someone, that's debatable, but highly skilled benders in the Avatar series have developed a sort of sixth sense when it comes to knowing if their element is present in even incredibly tiny amounts, such as how earthbenders can detect small impurities in metal in order to manipulate it by using the earth chunks in it, or how waterbenders are able to pull out water from other life forms, including little ones like flowers and grass, if necessary.
If you ask me, the answer would be yes to both questions (but again, only if Amon is within range), though I would prefer a second opinion from someone who has watched "The Legend of Korra" before you take my word for it.
How well do you do against one?
another question is, how many Animate Lands can Kamahl make? His card doesn't have a limit, and I'm pretty sure if he has a TON of mana, he'd animate a LOT of the terrain.
I'm not sure why we're still counting V in the fight here, I'd say Kamahl casts Might of Old Krosa on Kenshin, Kenshin disposes of V.
I'm just not sure about Amon though... Sure, Kamahl doesn't practice many defensive magics regularly. But wouldn't he need to have known some to even stand a chance against a god like Karona?
Would it be a bit much to ask that Kamahl has Hexproof in relation to Bloodbending? After all, he's kinda done being a puppet, that's why he's a druid now, I don't think he'd so easily let his body be controlled like a puppet.
I still have faith in Way of the Warrior, and i'm not trying to discount Amon too easily here. but it would seem that he'd be a bit OP for a competition like this unless there were certain checks to his power, else one could claim that he could bloodbend Goku and control his body. I'm just saying his power level needs to be checked a bit by the terrain or something. Certainly a place rich in Green and White mana would be enough to grant Kamahl a small ward of Protection from something like that, couldn't it?
Just a few questions I felt I should bring up,
EDIT: So, Historically, Bloodbending could only be done during a full-moon? How could Yakone/Amon then learn how to do it outside of a full moon? I'm confused....
EDIT2: So... That's Bloodbending? That seems like a very powerful effect and it would seem that only Plot Armor is able to stop it (Aang being the Avatar of course...)
...I still don't give V much of a chance of survival though, lol.
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True but how much land IS their to animate? if whole Tropical islands are only a single target, Huge citys (of brass) are single targets, then it could be argued that this is alittle like a single snow covered planes, not enough land TO animate a huge army. His card can still be mindcontroled, or bribed, or act of treasoned, ect, their is nothing in his power list that suggests he should be immune to such an attack, he has strong will power but guess what so do most blue mages, (likely stronger at that)