Unfortunately someone like Squirrel Girl would be disqualified from the tournament as we are not allowed to bring any minions or summons to battle. So she would be virtually useless against Doom here.
I was thinking of a magically controlled flaming snake not a self controlled snake. Which is perfectly legal. For instance... Tony Stark with a remote controlled Mark suit would be ok... Tony Stark having a Jarvis controlled suit do something that Tony himself is not paying attention to would be crossing the line.
Squirrel Girl is a running gag, nothing more.
She was made to have sily victories which should not be taken seriously.
For example, squirrels defeating Thanos who can endure planets blowing up in his face, or Dr. Doom who can survive a point blank shot from infinity gauntlet and still be in one piece.
It is funny how people take this seriously.
This tournament does have a lot of powerhouses, insanely strong characters, but none of them are unbeatable.
While Dr. Doom stomps the Dark Lords, or while Doomsday stomps whoever-his-team-fought, they will eventualy lose
against an equaly powered character.
The reason why the seem so OP to you is because of their weak opponents.
Dr. Doom with his insane power will stomp these two old farts, but he will have a hard time with Doomsday or Bolas or Magneto etc.
The problem is that the teams are not equaly balanced.
This. Apparently people think every match up need to be as close a fight as possible. Which is just not true. This is why this is a TOURNAMENT. Eventually the strong people fight each other and see who actually is the strongest.
Squirrel Girl is a running gag, nothing more.
She was made to have sily victories which should not be taken seriously.
For example, squirrels defeating Thanos who can endure planets blowing up in his face, or Dr. Doom who can survive a point blank shot from infinity gauntlet and still be in one piece.
It is funny how people take this seriously.
This tournament does have a lot of powerhouses, insanely strong characters, but none of them are unbeatable.
While Dr. Doom stomps the Dark Lords, or while Doomsday stomps whoever-his-team-fought, they will eventualy lose
against an equaly powered character.
The reason why the seem so OP to you is because of their weak opponents.
Dr. Doom with his insane power will stomp these two old farts, but he will have a hard time with Doomsday or Bolas or Magneto etc.
The problem is that the teams are not equaly balanced.
Doomsday actually lost if I remember correctly...
The problem is you assume that the Universes are equally powered... you think that if someone from the Marvel universe is the best-est in the galaxy at what they do then nobody with similar skill has a chance. Guess what? I dont give a **** that Dr Doom got 2nd place in some Marvel universe magic tournament. That is Marvel magic... Voldemort is the most powerful Wizard in his universe to the point that in a society filled with wizards he was almost unstoppable. Can Dr Doom just swat away any spell Voldemort brings to bear? I highly doubt it.
Just because Comic book characters ended up having to fight against "God" because the writers ran out of more powerful things to have them do does not mean comic book "God" is the same as "God" in other literature. All that tells me is Comic book "God" is a pansy. Comic book ultimate super blast of destructive power may only be as powerful as a turbo laser on a Tie Fighter...
Squirrel Girl is a running gag, nothing more.
She was made to have sily victories which should not be taken seriously.
For example, squirrels defeating Thanos who can endure planets blowing up in his face, or Dr. Doom who can survive a point blank shot from infinity gauntlet and still be in one piece.
It is funny how people take this seriously.
This tournament does have a lot of powerhouses, insanely strong characters, but none of them are unbeatable.
While Dr. Doom stomps the Dark Lords, or while Doomsday stomps whoever-his-team-fought, they will eventualy lose
against an equaly powered character.
The reason why the seem so OP to you is because of their weak opponents.
Dr. Doom with his insane power will stomp these two old farts, but he will have a hard time with Doomsday or Bolas or Magneto etc.
The problem is that the teams are not equaly balanced.
Except you forget the part where you are more wrong than a travelling circus of incestuous neckbeards (even the women).
Voldemort & Palpatine are both in their respective universes JUST as destructive and capable of conquering entire planets as Doom is. You're letting your bias shine through when you insist that Dr. Doom stomps two of the strongest villains in all of fiction but somehow gets paired against someone "better" down the line.
Dr. Doom lost to Squirrel Girl in canon. You can hand waive it all you want, but it happened. So you have to deal with that while still trying to have a straight face as you try to say he EASILY defeats two dark lords of incredible magical power when he's lost to far, far less.
Mr. Fantastic beats Doom on a regular basis and all his does is stretch and have incredible intellect.
Spider-Man has beat Doom, and he's a teenage boy with spider powers.
He's not the be all end all villain you think he is. He's damn powerful, but to suggest that he just solo's everything shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's really sad that a self professed Marvel tool like myself that will buy anything you slap a Marvel logo on has to be the arbiter of common sense and logic in EVERY SINGLE MATCH that features a Marvel character just because people have no sense of creativity.
Forgive me what has Voldmort done on a world/mutli planet scale? if memory serves he was basicly like the wizard nazi party, He didn't take over the world, he bearly have an international presents. Now Palpateen HE I will give you, he was a wide scope of true conquest.
Palpateen and Doom are in the "I have killed millions of people club" (in Palpateen's case likely trillions if we count indirect death) Voldemort has what 100? MAYBE ?
Voldemort is a nonfactor in this fight. A guy with a gun can beat him. He's lucky he never tried his BS in the US because he'd be dead before he could blink.
Wow...I am shocked that such a die hard Marvel fan does not know that it was Iron Man who defeated Doom and that all that Squirrel Girl did was distracted him for a few moments until she managed to free Iron Man. And Mr. Fantastic is just a guy who is very smart and is very elastic...I am honored to have a chance to talk to an expert like you
Clearly you didn't read the comic, then. Because once again you have no idea what you're talking about. Squirrel Girl is the one who incapacitated Dr. Doom while Doom was about to kill Iron Man.
She beat him so bad that the next time they met and she went straight into Latveria to borrow his time machine, he merely pointed her to the room and didn't even bother to try and stop her, because he KNEW HE COULDN'T BEAT THE GIRL WITH SQUIRREL POWERS.
Voldemort got outsmarted by a child...five times!
Voldemort in his actual physical form, the one we are analyzing for this battle, was never outsmarted by Harry Potter. Their situation was hopeless. Harry Potter HAD TO DIE in order to make Voldemort mortal enough to be killed when Harry came back.
Palpatine grew old and all he did was sitting in his chair until he got thrown into a generator. With the new movies coming out and extended universe becoming non canon...yes, that is pretty much all that Palpatine did.
Sure, if you refuse to acknowledge anything he did in the Prequel movies and other source materials that are considered canon. Just go look at the other Versus Thread where we have Yoda 1vs1 against Palpatine, and tell me this guy is a pansy that can't cut the mustard on his own.
Voldemort was a failure and while Palpatine could destroy planets with a Death Star, Infinity Gauntlet did the same in much less time and Doom survived a point blank shot from it. And since Doom battles Mephisto who is a near omnipotent being, in the true meaning of the word, every summer in a battle of wills and magic, I highly doubt that a killing curse would have any effect on him.
None of them have any Death Stars, Infinity Gauntlets or any other contrived plot devices that give them ultimate power.
And you keep on bringing up the whole "He took a shot to the face and lived!" as if that means something. Scores of heroes and villains alike have survived blasts from the Infinity Gauntlet, it's just a super powered plot device to make it seem like your character is "supah tough". Like Doomsday being able to take Omega Beams to the face and live.
Guess what? I saw a Superman animated movie on Netflix yesterday that showed Darkseid shooting Superman and Super Girl multiple times repeatedly with Omega Beams to the face, and they kept on coming. It's not special.
You can't look at two super powered spells/abilities that basically say "This spell instantly kills anyone who comes into contact with it...except for this select group of special people, I.E. Everyone" and say that "No, THIS one is so much stronger than THAT one!"
If the Infinity Gauntlet was truly capable of destroying entire worlds with a single blast, no amount of bs in the world can tell you that Person A over here can take that to the face and live. It DESTROYS WORLDS. No super powered skull is stronger than an entire planet unless the plot demands he live through it.
I will remind you, my vote is also going towards Team Mental Prowess, but I am at least capable of giving the other side a modicum of credit to their abilities.
Forgive me what has Voldmort done on a world/mutli planet scale? if memory serves he was basicly like the wizard nazi party, He didn't take over the world, he bearly have an international presents. Now Palpateen HE I will give you, he was a wide scope of true conquest.
Palpateen and Doom are in the "I have killed millions of people club" (in Palpateen's case likely trillions if we count indirect death) Voldemort has what 100? MAYBE ?
While it is true that Voldemort's actions are more or less limited in geographical scope to Britain, consider the implications of what you just wrote. None of the international wizarding superpowers tried to intervene in his hostile takeover of the UK. Now, one might argue that there are no international wizards, but that's not true. In "Goblet of Fire" alone, we find out that there are at least three schools Europe that train wizards in the art of magic. In JK Rowling's other materials, such as "Quidditch Through the Ages" and "Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them", which are part of HP canon, we know of the existence of Asian, African and American wizards and how they took on mythical creatures, and this is hinted at in the seven main books as well. If we go into video game territory, we also know that Japan and the United States also has a wizarding tradition, so much so that these countries can send teams to the Quidditch World Cup. What do these wizards have in common? They all regard Voldemort as the most powerful and evil dark wizard to have ever lived, and as far as I know, none of those populations tried to intervene in any way once he took over the Ministry of Magic.
Also, since when does kill rate dictate a villain's level of competency or potency? Sure, it's a fine measuring stick, but I don't think that a body count makes a great villain (Amon from "Avatar: The Legend of Korra", for example, would like to speak with you all regarding that matter...). I remember a time when villains, even comic book ones, literally had a kill rate of zero because the heroes had to be highly competent role models who had to save the day and make sure no one got hurt. This may have changed over time, but has the scope of evil really gone into that territory? By that argument, none of the Disney Villains would pose any sort of legitimate threat in this tournament because they aren't able to kill anyone, and they are routinely bested by mortals with high virtues. Yet I think people like Amon (a unique example in that he chooses not to kill, and not in a silly, impractical James Bond villain kind of way, which makes him even more frightening) and Maleficent (the classic villainess archetype) would still rank high on the list of fiction's most evil.
Voldemort is a nonfactor in this fight. A guy with a gun can beat him. He's lucky he never tried his BS in the US because he'd be dead before he could blink.
Yet, as I detailed above, the countries with wizarding populations didn't even try to lay a finger on him when he rose to power for the second time.
While the wizard vs. gun argument is still highly debated, the fact of the matter remains that, while it's concievable that a wizard would die from a straight up single gunshot in a "showdown at high noon" scenario, why on Earth would the wizard engage such an opponent head on? Given time to prepare, or even a bit of cover to hide, said wizard can employ vast methods of stealth or trickery to subdue an opponent in a nonlethal manner, not to mention use a large array of spells in order to gain an advantage. In other words, sure, if the Muggles went to war with the wizarding world, they might be screwed due to the killing power of technological weapons, but that scenario will only really happen if the wizards get careless and let their stealth charms, etc. fall down for whatever reason. They could arguably conquer Muggles without them even knowing it.
Gives me an idea for a new "You vs. ______ thread" though.
Because destiny said so (and you can't fight fate)? Because it's a work of high fantasy where Good always beats Evil (and even cosmic powered genies lose to street rats in that genre)? Because no matter how you look at it, Harry Potter is a children's book (albiet one meant to grow with the reader)?
Let's be fair here, if you're going to pull out the "a child could beat him" (which isn't entirely true, by the way... Harry is a young adult by book 7) argument, then there's no reason you should ignore the evidence that teenagers with superpowers (like Spiderman, who is probably even younger than Harry Potter) are capable of defeating Doom on a regular basis.
Which reminds me... (and this question is something I seem to ask in any versus thread involving comic book villains, because I can't seem to get an answer...) just how does anyone in the Marvel universe ever defeat Doom and Magneto if both of them are routinely capable of extinguishing all life on the planet just by thinking about it?
Palpatine grew old and all he did was sitting in his chair until he got thrown into a generator. With the new movies coming out and extended universe becoming non canon...yes, that is pretty much all that Palpatine did.
So now you're going to ignore Palpatine's canonical work built up over years of written literature about Star Wars due to some merger with Disney, while quoting every great thing Doom ever did in every comic of all time? Doesn't Disney own Marvel as well? I suppose we'll do away with all the comics you're using as sources and dismiss them as non-canon for exactly the same reason?
Actually, I feel really bad for Lex Luthor, who up to now has not only been overshadowed by Doom, but who also hasn't actually been discussed at all yet during the length of this match beyond having vast wealth and a battlesuit collecting dust somewhere in an secret location. If any character is being unfairly treated as a nonfactor, that would be him. You know, Superman's archenemy? The man who routinely manages to think up ways to take on the Justice League and the Big Blue himself? No one's going to take him seriously? Everyone is relying on Doom to solo this match (and therefore produce the unfortunate side effect of looking incredibly biased) by blowing up his power level instead of, you know, arguing that the two of them could take down their opponents together in a creative manner?
Nothing personal guys, but I felt the needed to throw everyone (including Doom's partner) a bone here.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Which reminds me... (and this question is something I seem to ask in any versus thread involving comic book villains, because I can't seem to get an answer...) just how does anyone in the Marvel universe ever defeat Doom and Magneto if both of them are routinely capable of extinguishing all life on the planet just by thinking about it?
I believe this question NEEDS to be answered by the people constantly trolling this competition with lame brained arguments as to why Contestant A beats everything forever without even breaking a sweat. Because I am real tired of hearing the same people making the same arguments without acknowledging that their pet super villains are defeated constantly by much lesser beings, and thus are not really the world breaking characters they portray them as in these Versus Battles.
Because the only answer I've ever gotten was "lol, you're taking things too seriously, chillax bro!". Which only furthers my belief that these are mostly just troll posts.
You know, Kraken does sort of have a point. Instead of discussing why one team or another should win the fight, we should discuss how that team would win.
To say that Palpatine and Voldemort are tricky would be a vast understatement. Voldemort, being the veteran of many a wizards' duel, would expect Doom to use part of his prep time equipping himself and Luthor with his most powerful magical wards (which he would, indeed, do). Thus he wouldn't open with Avada Kedavra, but with his mightiest Dispelling Charm, in an attempt to take down Doom's wards. He would do this while Palpatine simultaneously Force-choked Mental Prowess and strafed them with lightning.
Regrettably, though, it would not be enough. Doom would begin the match by pointing at Voldemort and using the atomic blaster in the index finger of his right glove to take him down before he can activate his Dispelling Charm (not that it would have worked anyway). All he has to do is point and think, while Voldemort needs to speak the words. And between Doom's superhuman pain tolerance and his armor's computer guidance systems, the Force choke won't affect his aim.
While Luthor would be more affected by the choke, he would also be able to lay down enough suppressing fire to break Palpatine's concentration. Once that's done and Voldemort is out of the fight, he can just take to the air and bombard Palpatine, keeping him on the defensive while Doom finishes him off with a magic blast too big for him to evade.
And as for the Force lightning, it simply isn't powerful enough to break through Doom's force field or Luthor's.
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All he has to do is point and think, while Voldemort needs to speak the words.
Actually, not really. In the HP universe there are also a great deal of nonverbal spells, but its effectiveness varies from spell to spell. In some cases, doing the nonverbal version of the spell would be weaker, but faster, than saying the spell aloud, so you trade off some power for speed and secrecy. More powerful wizards are capable of blasting out very potent nonverbal spells, probably more powerful than the average wizard speaking them aloud. Some spells seem to have absolutely no nonverbal counterpart (like the oft-cited insta-kill Avada Kedavra), but most of them do. The books explain it in detail, while the movies and video games make almost all the spells nonverbal.
The entire duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort was nonverbal in both the book and movie, IIRC, so Voldemort operates at the speed of thought in most cases, even when fighting an über mage. I'd say the only time Voldemort really needs to speak out his spell is for using Avada Kedavra or any of the other Unforgivable Curses. However, I think that's all inconsequential, since you don't believe Voldemort could dispell Doom anyway.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Actually, not really. In the HP universe there are also a great deal of nonverbal spells, but its effectiveness varies from spell to spell. In some cases, doing the nonverbal version of the spell would be weaker, but faster, than saying the spell aloud, so you trade off some power for speed and secrecy. More powerful wizards are capable of blasting out very potent nonverbal spells, probably more powerful than the average wizard speaking them aloud. Some spells seem to have absolutely no nonverbal counterpart (like the oft-cited insta-kill Avada Kedavra), but most of them do. The books explain it in detail, while the movies and video games make almost all the spells nonverbal.
The entire duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort was nonverbal in both the book and movie, IIRC, so Voldemort operates at the speed of thought in most cases, even when fighting an über mage. I'd say the only time Voldemort really needs to speak out his spell is for using Avada Kedavra or any of the other Unforgivable Curses. However, I think that's all inconsequential, since you don't believe Voldemort could dispell Doom anyway.
We've been through this before. It's not laser beams they're firing, there spell can be dodged by kids and average middle aged men and women. A trained whatever has no problem avoiding these things. And strong enough peopel can resist them too.
As for Squirral girl...she is a gag character. I love when people pull her out in a versus thread in order to prove something. It's the equivalent of arguing Deadpool can beat every character ever because he can break the fourth wall and punch the writer
The entire duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort was nonverbal in both the book and movie, IIRC, so Voldemort operates at the speed of thought in most cases, even when fighting an über mage. I'd say the only time Voldemort really needs to speak out his spell is for using Avada Kedavra or any of the other Unforgivable Curses.
Fair enough. So it basically comes down to whose reaction time is faster. I believe there's a passage in one of the later books referring to Voldemort casting "with the speed of a striking snake," but that's about it. Doom, on the other hand, is fast enough to outmaneuver the Beast, whose own superhuman reflexes are well-documented. He's evenfaster against magic.
However, I think that's all inconsequential, since you don't believe Voldemort could dispell Doom anyway.
It's a matter of degrees, really. Doom has wiped the floor with better mages than Tom Riddle - such as Ceranda (who was powerful enough to screw with the enchantment that Odin placed on Mjolnir), whose power he drained completely and added to his own.
All of this is also ignoring the fact that Doom could just lock his armor and use the Ovoid Mind Transfer to switch bodies with Palpatine, then cut Voldy in half with his lightsaber.
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We've been through this before. It's not laser beams they're firing, there spell can be dodged by kids and average middle aged men and women. A trained whatever has no problem avoiding these things. And strong enough peopel can resist them too.
You mean how like in every Western ever the guys constantly dodge bullets? I suppose Han Solo dodges blaster fire too since Stormtroopers are known to be excellent marksmen but cant hit him running around the first Death Star...
This is a ridiculous argument trying to use plot devices as an argument for how things work.
Also everyone is underestimating Palpatine... his force lightning is powerful enough to light up an entire planet(he was torturing Luke not trying to turn him to dust). He has also been able to create a Force Storm (worm hole)....
And yes Voldemort can cast spells with just a flick of the wrist. He could also theoretically come out to the arena with shield spell up. I also assume that the arena is bigger than a basketball court and they wouldnt just spawn in the arena right on top of each other.
You mean how like in every Western ever the guys constantly dodge bullets? I suppose Han Solo dodges blaster fire too since Stormtroopers are known to be excellent marksmen but cant hit him running around the first Death Star...
This is a ridiculous argument trying to use plot devices as an argument for how things work.
Also everyone is underestimating Palpatine... his force lightning is powerful enough to light up an entire planet(he was torturing Luke not trying to turn him to dust). He has also been able to create a Force Storm (worm hole)....
And yes Voldemort can cast spells with just a flick of the wrist. He could also theoretically come out to the arena with shield spell up. I also assume that the arena is bigger than a basketball court and they wouldnt just spawn in the arena right on top of each other.
Magic travelling slow as a plot device? What the? As opposed to how magic works in real life? Please.
Magic travelling slow as a plot device? What the? As opposed to how magic works in real life? Please.
Nowhere in any of the Harry Potter literature have I ever seen it stated that the magic "travels slow".
Similarly nowhere does it say it Star Wars that Han Solo is faster than a beam of energy (blaster shot) yet nobody seems to think that Star Wars laser "move slowly" just because Han Solo and Chewbacca easily dodge dozens of blaster shots during Episode 4...
The only thing I can find that seems consistent is that the spells would have to move slower than the speed of sound. But also keep in mind that it is virtually impossible to block the killing curse int eh HP universe so Doom maybe forced to only dodging that spell. There are also many spells that dont have the issue of "moving slower than bullets" The Emperor can use force lightning for fast moving "spells". Voldemort can make a giant flaming snake to attack Doom or something else more wide spread.
We are also seeming to forget the vast breath of options Voldemort has. He could easily cloak himself and Palpatine in invisibility and teleport around the arena and lay magical traps for the other team to deal with (or technological if the Emperor brings anything fun from Star Wars land).
Spells often have some kind of physical representation in the form of light and as such can usually miss, be dodged, or blocked with an object (including another spell). The action of performing a spell is referred to as casting.
Now that I think about it. I don't think any spells can even penetrate Doom's or Lex armor.
Spells often have some kind of physical representation in the form of light and as such can usually miss, be dodged, or blocked with an object (including another spell). The action of performing a spell is referred to as casting.
Now that I think about it. I don't think any spells can even penetrate Doom's or Lex armor.
Is their armor somehow magic proof? Spells in HP have no issue with clothes so it seems to me that HP magic follows the generic rules of "if you are wearing it, it is part of you" that most magic universes employ.
You are also still only arguing against 1 kind of magic... Voldemort does not have to hit them with a killing curse, he could just as easily roast them alive in their suits, use electricity, or pummel them to death. There is a massive list of spells at his disposal.
Anyway, I'm done arguing the finer points of what Voldemort and Palpatine are capable of. Anyone with half a brain knows not to underestimate them in this fight. Unfortunately, that's pretty telling as to the quality of people on the Doom/Luthor side of the fence.
I'll be doing my write up tonight, as I've got nothing but time today to catch up on all my writing assignments for various E-Feds and stuff.
God-like Strength: Galactus possesses an astronomical amount of super strength.
God-like Stamina: Galactus can partake in physical streneous action, like battles, for an undefined period of time.
God-like Speed: Despite his size, Galactus can move at speeds that greatly
surpass the speed of light.
Invulnerability: Galactus is immune to all diseases, ailments, and toxins, and, he is nearly impenetrable towards almost every force (however he became a zombie in Marvel Zombies).
These are only examples.
He deflected Mjolnir. We can throw physics around to show you how heavy that hammer is.
Hulk? Mmmm...no
Don't even bother arguing with Kraken. He ignores any FACTS that anyone presents and give no rebuttal to anything except passively aggressively insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. It's hilarous that he talks about people runing the contest while he's the ONLY ONE that continuously call people idiots because his fantasy team isn't winning.
Also everyone is underestimating Palpatine... his force lightning is powerful enough to light up an entire planet(he was torturing Luke not trying to turn him to dust). He has also been able to create a Force Storm (worm hole)....
Actually, that was the clone Palpatine from the Dark Empire comics, whose power levels were FAR above the version being used here.
That time, no, he didn't. That's from Secret Wars, when Doom followed Big G to the Beyonder's ship and it blasted them both out of orbit. It is, however, a pretty good example of what Doom's force fields can stand up to.
Voldemort can make a giant flaming snake to attack Doom or something else more wide spread.
Which wouldn't really do anything since both Doom and Luthor's armor are built to withstand pretty heavy-duty temperatures. Luthor's can withstand Superman's heat vision, and Doom's can take a point-blank blast from an atomic grenade without a scratch, even without the force fields.
We are also seeming to forget the vast breath of options Voldemort has. He could easily cloak himself and Palpatine in invisibility and teleport around the arena and lay magical traps for the other team to deal with (or technological if the Emperor brings anything fun from Star Wars land).
Traps would be useless, since Doom can see magic. And being a far more talented sorcerer than Voldemort, he could probably re-work them to attack the Dark Lords instead.
As for tech...Doom can pretty much instantly identify and reprogram alien technology. He's come up with tech far more impressive than anything I've seen in Star Wars, including better planet-busters than anything Palpatine ever commissioned. Luthor's no slouch in that department, either; he's built time machines from scratch, a technology which continues to baffle the most advanced minds in the SW universe.
And being a far more talented sorcerer than Voldemort...
This is why these debates get dumb as hell.
Proof? you cant just say "this guy is better than the other guy because he's the second best in his universe". Voldemort was so powerful that in a world of magic users... almost nobody even tried to stop him. It would be like Hitler coming to power and the rest of the world saying "well **** I guess that guy is leader of the world now, nothing we can do about it".... that is how powerful Voldemort is. Yet somehow Dr Doom is far more talented?
Honestly I am not trying to be a homer on the teams I nominated. I didnt think this many would even get into the tournament. All I was doing was trying to think up interesting pairings. But I actually want to hear a real ****ing reason for a team to win that isnt "look he killed super omega awesomo man that can crush the planet with his fists so clearly he has to win and that other team is full of chumps".
Don't even bother arguing with Kraken. He ignores any FACTS that anyone presents and give no rebuttal to anything except passively aggressively insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. It's hilarous that he talks about people runing the contest while he's the ONLY ONE that continuously call people idiots because his fantasy team isn't winning.
Seriously? Your going to go with petty attacks? Kraken stated several times that he is actually voting for the team you ****ing support! He's just as tired as I am of seeing all the half assed reasoning and outright dismissal of any character that didnt come from comic book land.
ok according to the book/shows he is stronger than the hulk, Faster than the flash, has limitless endurance. It takes 4 extreemly high powered heros to thwart his plans (not they never actuly beat him) He took on the entire avengers AND the fantastic four and wasn't scratched by it. AT THE SAME TIME. That alone should likely be enough to beat the living tar out of the other team, assuming lex can offer SOME even minor assistance they have this one in the bag.
Seriously? Your going to go with petty attacks? Kraken stated several times that he is actually voting for the team you ****ing support! He's just as tired as I am of seeing all the half assed reasoning and outright dismissal of any character that didnt come from comic book land.
Please, people are posting PAGES directly from the comic as support for what their character can do. Where as what someone Voldemort can or can't do are mostly assumptions.
If you're getting mad get mad at Marvel and DC for giving the characters those powers, rather than us at presenting facts. Doomsdays was a great example. He's as or stronger than superman, and moves faster than eyes can see. Full stop. That's all facts. Ironman stands no chance. Don't say we're dismissing the other team when it's clear Doomsday is just at another level.
Please, people are posting PAGES directly from the comic as support for what their character can do. Where as what someone Voldemort can or can't do are mostly assumptions.
Right they are posting single pages of "look this guy totes kicked that other guy's ass"... all that is doing is reiterating horrible arguments of "this guy beats super ultimate awesomo guy so he has to win!!! See this comic says so" My point is I dont give a crap what other super ultimate awesome comic book character he beats.I want to hear about arguments that go beyond "psh that guy is a pansy what has he ever done, this guy is super badassery and wins by himself!"
ok according to the book/shows he is stronger than the hulk, Faster than the flash, has limitless endurance. It takes 4 extreemly high powered heros to thwart his plans (not they never actuly beat him) He took on the entire avengers AND the fantastic four and wasn't scratched by it. AT THE SAME TIME. That alone should likely be enough to beat the living tar out of the other team, assuming lex can offer SOME even minor assistance they have this one in the bag.
Oh your right... he's faster than light and can blow up the world with a single thought... never mind the fact that he is beaten constantly... Comic book characters auto win everything.
Poring, I am done. This is why I brought up power level several times in the nomination thread and needing to cap it. I had a feeling it would come down to this. Honestly I dont know how some of the other teams managed to win but i am ****ing tired as hell of being one of the few people not sucking comic book character's dicks and praising their awesome god mode powers of being godly. Honestly I think the only reason some of the other teams I supported did win was because people didnt want to keep hearing arguments about how badass character like doomsday were... This tournament is a joke.
I was thinking of a magically controlled flaming snake not a self controlled snake. Which is perfectly legal. For instance... Tony Stark with a remote controlled Mark suit would be ok... Tony Stark having a Jarvis controlled suit do something that Tony himself is not paying attention to would be crossing the line.
This. Apparently people think every match up need to be as close a fight as possible. Which is just not true. This is why this is a TOURNAMENT. Eventually the strong people fight each other and see who actually is the strongest.
Doomsday actually lost if I remember correctly...
The problem is you assume that the Universes are equally powered... you think that if someone from the Marvel universe is the best-est in the galaxy at what they do then nobody with similar skill has a chance. Guess what? I dont give a **** that Dr Doom got 2nd place in some Marvel universe magic tournament. That is Marvel magic... Voldemort is the most powerful Wizard in his universe to the point that in a society filled with wizards he was almost unstoppable. Can Dr Doom just swat away any spell Voldemort brings to bear? I highly doubt it.
Just because Comic book characters ended up having to fight against "God" because the writers ran out of more powerful things to have them do does not mean comic book "God" is the same as "God" in other literature. All that tells me is Comic book "God" is a pansy. Comic book ultimate super blast of destructive power may only be as powerful as a turbo laser on a Tie Fighter...
Except you forget the part where you are more wrong than a travelling circus of incestuous neckbeards (even the women).
Voldemort & Palpatine are both in their respective universes JUST as destructive and capable of conquering entire planets as Doom is. You're letting your bias shine through when you insist that Dr. Doom stomps two of the strongest villains in all of fiction but somehow gets paired against someone "better" down the line.
Dr. Doom lost to Squirrel Girl in canon. You can hand waive it all you want, but it happened. So you have to deal with that while still trying to have a straight face as you try to say he EASILY defeats two dark lords of incredible magical power when he's lost to far, far less.
Mr. Fantastic beats Doom on a regular basis and all his does is stretch and have incredible intellect.
Spider-Man has beat Doom, and he's a teenage boy with spider powers.
He's not the be all end all villain you think he is. He's damn powerful, but to suggest that he just solo's everything shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's really sad that a self professed Marvel tool like myself that will buy anything you slap a Marvel logo on has to be the arbiter of common sense and logic in EVERY SINGLE MATCH that features a Marvel character just because people have no sense of creativity.
Palpateen and Doom are in the "I have killed millions of people club" (in Palpateen's case likely trillions if we count indirect death) Voldemort has what 100? MAYBE ?
Clearly you didn't read the comic, then. Because once again you have no idea what you're talking about. Squirrel Girl is the one who incapacitated Dr. Doom while Doom was about to kill Iron Man.
She beat him so bad that the next time they met and she went straight into Latveria to borrow his time machine, he merely pointed her to the room and didn't even bother to try and stop her, because he KNEW HE COULDN'T BEAT THE GIRL WITH SQUIRREL POWERS.
Voldemort in his actual physical form, the one we are analyzing for this battle, was never outsmarted by Harry Potter. Their situation was hopeless. Harry Potter HAD TO DIE in order to make Voldemort mortal enough to be killed when Harry came back.
Sure, if you refuse to acknowledge anything he did in the Prequel movies and other source materials that are considered canon. Just go look at the other Versus Thread where we have Yoda 1vs1 against Palpatine, and tell me this guy is a pansy that can't cut the mustard on his own.
None of them have any Death Stars, Infinity Gauntlets or any other contrived plot devices that give them ultimate power.
And you keep on bringing up the whole "He took a shot to the face and lived!" as if that means something. Scores of heroes and villains alike have survived blasts from the Infinity Gauntlet, it's just a super powered plot device to make it seem like your character is "supah tough". Like Doomsday being able to take Omega Beams to the face and live.
Guess what? I saw a Superman animated movie on Netflix yesterday that showed Darkseid shooting Superman and Super Girl multiple times repeatedly with Omega Beams to the face, and they kept on coming. It's not special.
You can't look at two super powered spells/abilities that basically say "This spell instantly kills anyone who comes into contact with it...except for this select group of special people, I.E. Everyone" and say that "No, THIS one is so much stronger than THAT one!"
If the Infinity Gauntlet was truly capable of destroying entire worlds with a single blast, no amount of bs in the world can tell you that Person A over here can take that to the face and live. It DESTROYS WORLDS. No super powered skull is stronger than an entire planet unless the plot demands he live through it.
I will remind you, my vote is also going towards Team Mental Prowess, but I am at least capable of giving the other side a modicum of credit to their abilities.
While it is true that Voldemort's actions are more or less limited in geographical scope to Britain, consider the implications of what you just wrote. None of the international wizarding superpowers tried to intervene in his hostile takeover of the UK. Now, one might argue that there are no international wizards, but that's not true. In "Goblet of Fire" alone, we find out that there are at least three schools Europe that train wizards in the art of magic. In JK Rowling's other materials, such as "Quidditch Through the Ages" and "Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them", which are part of HP canon, we know of the existence of Asian, African and American wizards and how they took on mythical creatures, and this is hinted at in the seven main books as well. If we go into video game territory, we also know that Japan and the United States also has a wizarding tradition, so much so that these countries can send teams to the Quidditch World Cup. What do these wizards have in common? They all regard Voldemort as the most powerful and evil dark wizard to have ever lived, and as far as I know, none of those populations tried to intervene in any way once he took over the Ministry of Magic.
Also, since when does kill rate dictate a villain's level of competency or potency? Sure, it's a fine measuring stick, but I don't think that a body count makes a great villain (Amon from "Avatar: The Legend of Korra", for example, would like to speak with you all regarding that matter...). I remember a time when villains, even comic book ones, literally had a kill rate of zero because the heroes had to be highly competent role models who had to save the day and make sure no one got hurt. This may have changed over time, but has the scope of evil really gone into that territory? By that argument, none of the Disney Villains would pose any sort of legitimate threat in this tournament because they aren't able to kill anyone, and they are routinely bested by mortals with high virtues. Yet I think people like Amon (a unique example in that he chooses not to kill, and not in a silly, impractical James Bond villain kind of way, which makes him even more frightening) and Maleficent (the classic villainess archetype) would still rank high on the list of fiction's most evil.
Yet, as I detailed above, the countries with wizarding populations didn't even try to lay a finger on him when he rose to power for the second time.
While the wizard vs. gun argument is still highly debated, the fact of the matter remains that, while it's concievable that a wizard would die from a straight up single gunshot in a "showdown at high noon" scenario, why on Earth would the wizard engage such an opponent head on? Given time to prepare, or even a bit of cover to hide, said wizard can employ vast methods of stealth or trickery to subdue an opponent in a nonlethal manner, not to mention use a large array of spells in order to gain an advantage. In other words, sure, if the Muggles went to war with the wizarding world, they might be screwed due to the killing power of technological weapons, but that scenario will only really happen if the wizards get careless and let their stealth charms, etc. fall down for whatever reason. They could arguably conquer Muggles without them even knowing it.
Gives me an idea for a new "You vs. ______ thread" though.
Because destiny said so (and you can't fight fate)? Because it's a work of high fantasy where Good always beats Evil (and even cosmic powered genies lose to street rats in that genre)? Because no matter how you look at it, Harry Potter is a children's book (albiet one meant to grow with the reader)?
Let's be fair here, if you're going to pull out the "a child could beat him" (which isn't entirely true, by the way... Harry is a young adult by book 7) argument, then there's no reason you should ignore the evidence that teenagers with superpowers (like Spiderman, who is probably even younger than Harry Potter) are capable of defeating Doom on a regular basis.
Which reminds me... (and this question is something I seem to ask in any versus thread involving comic book villains, because I can't seem to get an answer...) just how does anyone in the Marvel universe ever defeat Doom and Magneto if both of them are routinely capable of extinguishing all life on the planet just by thinking about it?
So now you're going to ignore Palpatine's canonical work built up over years of written literature about Star Wars due to some merger with Disney, while quoting every great thing Doom ever did in every comic of all time? Doesn't Disney own Marvel as well? I suppose we'll do away with all the comics you're using as sources and dismiss them as non-canon for exactly the same reason?
Actually, I feel really bad for Lex Luthor, who up to now has not only been overshadowed by Doom, but who also hasn't actually been discussed at all yet during the length of this match beyond having vast wealth and a battlesuit collecting dust somewhere in an secret location. If any character is being unfairly treated as a nonfactor, that would be him. You know, Superman's archenemy? The man who routinely manages to think up ways to take on the Justice League and the Big Blue himself? No one's going to take him seriously? Everyone is relying on Doom to solo this match (and therefore produce the unfortunate side effect of looking incredibly biased) by blowing up his power level instead of, you know, arguing that the two of them could take down their opponents together in a creative manner?
Nothing personal guys, but I felt the needed to throw everyone (including Doom's partner) a bone here.
How well do you do against one?
I believe this question NEEDS to be answered by the people constantly trolling this competition with lame brained arguments as to why Contestant A beats everything forever without even breaking a sweat. Because I am real tired of hearing the same people making the same arguments without acknowledging that their pet super villains are defeated constantly by much lesser beings, and thus are not really the world breaking characters they portray them as in these Versus Battles.
Because the only answer I've ever gotten was "lol, you're taking things too seriously, chillax bro!". Which only furthers my belief that these are mostly just troll posts.
To say that Palpatine and Voldemort are tricky would be a vast understatement. Voldemort, being the veteran of many a wizards' duel, would expect Doom to use part of his prep time equipping himself and Luthor with his most powerful magical wards (which he would, indeed, do). Thus he wouldn't open with Avada Kedavra, but with his mightiest Dispelling Charm, in an attempt to take down Doom's wards. He would do this while Palpatine simultaneously Force-choked Mental Prowess and strafed them with lightning.
Regrettably, though, it would not be enough. Doom would begin the match by pointing at Voldemort and using the atomic blaster in the index finger of his right glove to take him down before he can activate his Dispelling Charm (not that it would have worked anyway). All he has to do is point and think, while Voldemort needs to speak the words. And between Doom's superhuman pain tolerance and his armor's computer guidance systems, the Force choke won't affect his aim.
While Luthor would be more affected by the choke, he would also be able to lay down enough suppressing fire to break Palpatine's concentration. Once that's done and Voldemort is out of the fight, he can just take to the air and bombard Palpatine, keeping him on the defensive while Doom finishes him off with a magic blast too big for him to evade.
And as for the Force lightning, it simply isn't powerful enough to break through Doom's force field or Luthor's.
Actually, not really. In the HP universe there are also a great deal of nonverbal spells, but its effectiveness varies from spell to spell. In some cases, doing the nonverbal version of the spell would be weaker, but faster, than saying the spell aloud, so you trade off some power for speed and secrecy. More powerful wizards are capable of blasting out very potent nonverbal spells, probably more powerful than the average wizard speaking them aloud. Some spells seem to have absolutely no nonverbal counterpart (like the oft-cited insta-kill Avada Kedavra), but most of them do. The books explain it in detail, while the movies and video games make almost all the spells nonverbal.
The entire duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort was nonverbal in both the book and movie, IIRC, so Voldemort operates at the speed of thought in most cases, even when fighting an über mage. I'd say the only time Voldemort really needs to speak out his spell is for using Avada Kedavra or any of the other Unforgivable Curses. However, I think that's all inconsequential, since you don't believe Voldemort could dispell Doom anyway.
How well do you do against one?
We've been through this before. It's not laser beams they're firing, there spell can be dodged by kids and average middle aged men and women. A trained whatever has no problem avoiding these things. And strong enough peopel can resist them too.
As for Squirral girl...she is a gag character. I love when people pull her out in a versus thread in order to prove something. It's the equivalent of arguing Deadpool can beat every character ever because he can break the fourth wall and punch the writer
Fair enough. So it basically comes down to whose reaction time is faster. I believe there's a passage in one of the later books referring to Voldemort casting "with the speed of a striking snake," but that's about it. Doom, on the other hand, is fast enough to outmaneuver the Beast, whose own superhuman reflexes are well-documented. He's even faster against magic.
It's a matter of degrees, really. Doom has wiped the floor with better mages than Tom Riddle - such as Ceranda (who was powerful enough to screw with the enchantment that Odin placed on Mjolnir), whose power he drained completely and added to his own.
All of this is also ignoring the fact that Doom could just lock his armor and use the Ovoid Mind Transfer to switch bodies with Palpatine, then cut Voldy in half with his lightsaber.
You mean how like in every Western ever the guys constantly dodge bullets? I suppose Han Solo dodges blaster fire too since Stormtroopers are known to be excellent marksmen but cant hit him running around the first Death Star...
This is a ridiculous argument trying to use plot devices as an argument for how things work.
Also everyone is underestimating Palpatine... his force lightning is powerful enough to light up an entire planet(he was torturing Luke not trying to turn him to dust). He has also been able to create a Force Storm (worm hole)....
And yes Voldemort can cast spells with just a flick of the wrist. He could also theoretically come out to the arena with shield spell up. I also assume that the arena is bigger than a basketball court and they wouldnt just spawn in the arena right on top of each other.
Magic travelling slow as a plot device? What the? As opposed to how magic works in real life? Please.
Nowhere in any of the Harry Potter literature have I ever seen it stated that the magic "travels slow".
Similarly nowhere does it say it Star Wars that Han Solo is faster than a beam of energy (blaster shot) yet nobody seems to think that Star Wars laser "move slowly" just because Han Solo and Chewbacca easily dodge dozens of blaster shots during Episode 4...
The only thing I can find that seems consistent is that the spells would have to move slower than the speed of sound. But also keep in mind that it is virtually impossible to block the killing curse int eh HP universe so Doom maybe forced to only dodging that spell. There are also many spells that dont have the issue of "moving slower than bullets" The Emperor can use force lightning for fast moving "spells". Voldemort can make a giant flaming snake to attack Doom or something else more wide spread.
We are also seeming to forget the vast breath of options Voldemort has. He could easily cloak himself and Palpatine in invisibility and teleport around the arena and lay magical traps for the other team to deal with (or technological if the Emperor brings anything fun from Star Wars land).
Spells often have some kind of physical representation in the form of light and as such can usually miss, be dodged, or blocked with an object (including another spell). The action of performing a spell is referred to as casting.
Now that I think about it. I don't think any spells can even penetrate Doom's or Lex armor.
Is their armor somehow magic proof? Spells in HP have no issue with clothes so it seems to me that HP magic follows the generic rules of "if you are wearing it, it is part of you" that most magic universes employ.
You are also still only arguing against 1 kind of magic... Voldemort does not have to hit them with a killing curse, he could just as easily roast them alive in their suits, use electricity, or pummel them to death. There is a massive list of spells at his disposal.
I'll be doing my write up tonight, as I've got nothing but time today to catch up on all my writing assignments for various E-Feds and stuff.
Don't even bother arguing with Kraken. He ignores any FACTS that anyone presents and give no rebuttal to anything except passively aggressively insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him. It's hilarous that he talks about people runing the contest while he's the ONLY ONE that continuously call people idiots because his fantasy team isn't winning.
Actually, that was the clone Palpatine from the Dark Empire comics, whose power levels were FAR above the version being used here.
That time, no, he didn't. That's from Secret Wars, when Doom followed Big G to the Beyonder's ship and it blasted them both out of orbit. It is, however, a pretty good example of what Doom's force fields can stand up to.
Which wouldn't really do anything since both Doom and Luthor's armor are built to withstand pretty heavy-duty temperatures. Luthor's can withstand Superman's heat vision, and Doom's can take a point-blank blast from an atomic grenade without a scratch, even without the force fields.
Traps would be useless, since Doom can see magic. And being a far more talented sorcerer than Voldemort, he could probably re-work them to attack the Dark Lords instead.
As for tech...Doom can pretty much instantly identify and reprogram alien technology. He's come up with tech far more impressive than anything I've seen in Star Wars, including better planet-busters than anything Palpatine ever commissioned. Luthor's no slouch in that department, either; he's built time machines from scratch, a technology which continues to baffle the most advanced minds in the SW universe.
This is why these debates get dumb as hell.
Proof? you cant just say "this guy is better than the other guy because he's the second best in his universe". Voldemort was so powerful that in a world of magic users... almost nobody even tried to stop him. It would be like Hitler coming to power and the rest of the world saying "well **** I guess that guy is leader of the world now, nothing we can do about it".... that is how powerful Voldemort is. Yet somehow Dr Doom is far more talented?
Honestly I am not trying to be a homer on the teams I nominated. I didnt think this many would even get into the tournament. All I was doing was trying to think up interesting pairings. But I actually want to hear a real ****ing reason for a team to win that isnt "look he killed super omega awesomo man that can crush the planet with his fists so clearly he has to win and that other team is full of chumps".
Seriously? Your going to go with petty attacks? Kraken stated several times that he is actually voting for the team you ****ing support! He's just as tired as I am of seeing all the half assed reasoning and outright dismissal of any character that didnt come from comic book land.
Please, people are posting PAGES directly from the comic as support for what their character can do. Where as what someone Voldemort can or can't do are mostly assumptions.
If you're getting mad get mad at Marvel and DC for giving the characters those powers, rather than us at presenting facts. Doomsdays was a great example. He's as or stronger than superman, and moves faster than eyes can see. Full stop. That's all facts. Ironman stands no chance. Don't say we're dismissing the other team when it's clear Doomsday is just at another level.
Same with DOOM in this thread.
Right they are posting single pages of "look this guy totes kicked that other guy's ass"... all that is doing is reiterating horrible arguments of "this guy beats super ultimate awesomo guy so he has to win!!! See this comic says so" My point is I dont give a crap what other super ultimate awesome comic book character he beats.I want to hear about arguments that go beyond "psh that guy is a pansy what has he ever done, this guy is super badassery and wins by himself!"
Oh your right... he's faster than light and can blow up the world with a single thought... never mind the fact that he is beaten constantly... Comic book characters auto win everything.
Poring, I am done. This is why I brought up power level several times in the nomination thread and needing to cap it. I had a feeling it would come down to this. Honestly I dont know how some of the other teams managed to win but i am ****ing tired as hell of being one of the few people not sucking comic book character's dicks and praising their awesome god mode powers of being godly. Honestly I think the only reason some of the other teams I supported did win was because people didnt want to keep hearing arguments about how badass character like doomsday were... This tournament is a joke.
Infraction for trolling --Senori