I'd probably live, depending on the setting. Give me a card, start us 200 m away from another (and don't be stupid, I don't want to the facing the bear, empty on gas, or locked with the keys inside. I'd also like to start in the car, in the driver seat)
Seriously, look at Thalia, she can't possibly lift more than 75 pounds, and she beats the bear with her little toothpick sword...
.
Thalia has spent her intire life training and fighting Demons,vampires, werewolves and legions of zombies. She'll manage far better than some guy whow cam benchpress a few pounds and can google the word halberd..
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I could trade with a grizzly. If I had a bladed weapon of sufficient size I'm sure I could stab it in the brain through the eye or get it in the mouth with a blow that can cause lethal damage. I'd have to get close to do it though and I'm sure the bear's claws would inflict their own lethal damage before it's all over.
I could trade with a grizzly. If I had a bladed weapon of sufficient size I'm sure I could stab it in the brain through the eye or get it in the mouth with a blow that can cause lethal damage. I'd have to get close to do it though and I'm sure the bear's claws would inflict their own lethal damage before it's all over.
Have you actually wielded real, or wooden for that matter, swords or related weapons?
They are incredibly difficult to aim, especially when the target is actively moving and tiny, like the eyes of a bear.
Not to mention, a sword will not penetrate a grizzly's skull, and you will meet the skull even if you magically get your blade through the eyes, with just the force of your thrust. It just won't. There are reports of high-caliber rounds hitting a bear skull at an angle and just bouncing off.
Quote from itachiitachi »
While people on this thread are defiantly overestimating their abilities, bears where hunted before guns ever existed. There is a weapon called the bear spear meant specifically for bear hunting.
There's a reason why virtually all hunter-gatherer groups hunted in groups. 4-5 people is better than 1. Especially against a wild animal that will naturally look to avoid fighting against things that really want to kill it for food.
Except that's not the scenario here. The bear is not looking to avoid a fight, as most bears that are hunted would act. No, it is out to murder you.
You can bring 10 people with spears and they'll still all die. A grizzly bear has enough force with just a swing of a paw to shatter every part of your body that it comes in contact with.
Not to mention; you really cannot compare yourself with hunter-gatherers. No modern people, save people who grew up in war-zones or other related mentally intense areas, can compare themselves with hunter-gatherers.
Is this thread real life? The only way conceivable that a single person can kill a bear with out a gun (barring stuff like loads of prep time with traps etc) is do what Anthony Hopkins did in that movie: Wait for the bear to standup for a strike, take out your spear and hope he lands on it and impale himself with his own weight.
Is this thread the real life? Or is this just fantasy? Caught in a bear fight, no escape from reality...
Seriously though, the point of this thread is to find out if it is reasonable to believe (due to the sheer number of 2/2 or greater humans in Magic) that a normal human can take down a Grizzly. Many have theorized that this is not possible in reality, even though, in the game we all play, a Goblin with a pointy stick (which I assume most of us are more intelligent and/or better equipped than) can trade with one and a human with a halberd can take one and live to tell about it.
So would a gunman be able do it? Would a real halberdier be able do it? How about a real swordsman? It's actually quite interesting to read all of these discussions about firepower and the various tactics one tries to employ in this situation. If the majority of us were confident that we'd beat the bear, I would have pit us against a Hill Giant next. If not, I probably would have to make a "You vs. a Squirrel Token" thread next.
Thalia has spent her intire life training and fighting Demons,vampires, werewolves and legions of zombies. She'll manage far better than some guy whow cam benchpress a few pounds and can google the word halberd..
Exactly. Didn't think about that, really. So this is probably why the Goblin Piker and Halberdier have better stats than we do? Because they're trained to take on things we don't meet in everyday life?
Is it fair to say everyone is trained in the use of a hand grenade so we'd all be ok?
I lol'd. If I made this legal, we'd also all be trained in the use of flamethrowers (all you need is a lighter and a can of aerosol, after all). I think it's safe to say that if you've never actually held a weapon in your life, you are not trained with it. Anyone routinely carrying a hand grenade with them (for whatever reason) though untrained, would also have it for this battle, but I doubt anyone on the forum does that, so...
I could trade with a grizzly. If I had a bladed weapon of sufficient size I'm sure I could stab it in the brain through the eye or get it in the mouth with a blow that can cause lethal damage. I'd have to get close to do it though and I'm sure the bear's claws would inflict their own lethal damage before it's all over.
Finally, someone other than myself who posted that he thinks he would die taking down the bear! We're clearly the minority.
One blade wouldn't be enough though, and as others have said, you had best not aim for the head. In my case, I'd have at least two short swords and two daggers on me, so when the bear knocks me down, my best shot would be to stab it (using the deepest penetration that can be managed) with as many of them as possible in weak points of the neck or lower body, aiming for vital organs (the head and eyes are too risky due to the thick skull and small targets). That way, when it's done ripping me to shreds, it would at least bleed to death. I hope.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I think I'd be 0/3. I know to try and get the Grizzly to chase me downhill, to make myself look big and loud, and to go fetal and soil myself when all else fails. If none of these things do the trick in helping me to survive over 12 hours, I'd most certainly be effed.
You guys gotta understand that bears are huge and size matters when we're talking about injuries. A sword/spear injury is just too small for a bear size.
In magic untrained/bad trained people with weapons are 1/1 (see 1/1 soldier and human tokens, eager cadet, etc). Untrained normal people without weapons are probably 0/1 (most of us).
People trained (professional training, not like for fun training) might be a 1/1 first strike. If you have some kind of serious military/enforcement training and know how to defend yourself pretty well you might be a 0/2 or 1/2. The bear still kills you in both ways.
If you have gun weapon training and is really good at shooting and have the right weapon, you might be a 2/1 (you don't shoot well enough to kill the bear, but you hit something vital, the bear kills you and then die from lethal wound).
I think only if you're a career marine or hunter you could consider yourself a 2/1 first strike, enough to kill the bear and tell the tale.
For another reference, a life-time trained, armored and mounted knight is also a 2/2 (Knight Errant). I think one need more then a halberd to defeat one!
i do Karate, wield a lot of weapons, abuse electicity, to be a computer engineer ect.
heck, if i make enough fire, i'll burn down the forest and make sure it generates enough CO2 to kill polar bears and wipe them out from the face of the earth, so that i'm never bothered by one. Ever. Again.
always carry a lighter or matches, it Always helps, specially against animals, where you can cook them alive, or after they're dead. flabéd bear, yum yum.
if i lack any of these items, i hide, or feed him with poison berries, or make a trap.
Bah! All bears fall to my might, Dominarian or otherwise. I chose the first option only because the option of me being a 4/4 with first strike and "can block an additional bear" wasn't up there.
I said I would win only because I am pretty well trained with assault rifles and shoot on weekends. I do this to prepare myself for the military which i am leaving May 14th for. So saying I get one of my Assualt rifles I am pretty well trained with I said I would have a pretty good chance of killing the bear.
No if I don't get an assault rifle. I am dead. So very very dead.
Eh, It wasn't mine, but I destroyed it. I imagine it costs a lot, They even filled vital organs with fake blood to show damage. IT was awesome, and bloody. All ya gotta do is poke out the vital organs and tada...damage incurred. sadly though, I couldn't chop through the spinal cord to sever the head...
Anyways, Seriously, you don't need a gun to beat a dominarian bear...you just need a weapon that can put distance between you and it and do damage at the same time, you could to the same thing with a pike/spear/glaive/insert polearm...
Sorry, this is an older post to quote as I've been out of this thread for a bit, but you couldn't even cut through the spinal cord of a ballistic dummy and you think you'll penetrate the skull of a grizzly bear, which can deflect small arms fire? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN SIR
If you can get the bear to lunge at you, you might be able to impale the thing, or rather get it to impale itself with it's own bulk. Unless you get lucky and hit the heart (death) or kidney/liver (immobalizing pain), I'm betting it still kills you before dying.
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Sorry, this is an older post to quote as I've been out of this thread for a bit, but you couldn't even cut through the spinal cord of a ballistic dummy and you think you'll penetrate the skull of a grizzly bear, which can deflect small arms fire? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN SIR
If you can get the bear to lunge at you, you might be able to impale the thing, or rather get it to impale itself with it's own bulk. Unless you get lucky and hit the heart (death) or kidney/liver (immobalizing pain), I'm betting it still kills you before dying.
Actually a liver shot does not equal immobilizing pain for an animal. My dad shot a deer clean through the liver with a broadhead (arrow) and he and my uncle ended up chasing it down and clubbing it over the head the next day because it was still stumbling through the valley.
Actually a liver shot does not equal immobilizing pain for an animal. My dad shot a deer clean through the liver with a broadhead (arrow) and he and my uncle ended up chasing it down and clubbing it over the head the next day because it was still stumbling through the valley.
Perfect, even better (I'm no hunter, although I have hunted once or twice for my Dad on his farm aniamls that he was having issues with (due to my skill with a bow), I don't really know that much about it. I used to be really really really good, like starting to train for the Olympics good, so I'd just hide for a long time and take out the offending animal with an eye shot.)
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Well, all I carry on me regularly that may help me is my Hunting knife...though it does have a fire stick thing attached (starts fires like a boss...) so maybe if I could build a fire it would just go away.
Barring that the hiding thing may work...but that's about all I've got. I have no Illusions of Grandeur and do not think that I could take down a huge grizzly bear with a hunting knife attached to a stick like some people on here. So if hiding/fire doesn't work I die.
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
That being said, taking this in the context of Magic and the whole P/T deal, I'd say I'm akin to a lowly 1/2 Human, therefore I'm pretty much dead. But if I ever run into a Dominarian Grizzly, I hope I'll be holding onto one of these.
Sorry, this is an older post to quote as I've been out of this thread for a bit, but you couldn't even cut through the spinal cord of a ballistic dummy and you think you'll penetrate the skull of a grizzly bear, which can deflect small arms fire? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN SIR
If you can get the bear to lunge at you, you might be able to impale the thing, or rather get it to impale itself with it's own bulk. Unless you get lucky and hit the heart (death) or kidney/liver (immobalizing pain), I'm betting it still kills you before dying.
Heh, I didn't even know this thread was still going, guess I got lucky to just see it toppost...
Who said anything about me hitting it in the head? Sure, it has a hard head, i'm betting anything though I could probably get a good couple swings in and damage the thing fatally.
It HAS other limbs... Plus, I'm armed from head to toe, if the halberd fails, swords, axes, and etc will finish the job. Throwing axes FTW!
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I sincerely doubt you'll be able to damage a bear fatally on your own with a halberd.
With a lance/hunting spear? If you're skilled with it and experienced in hunting bears, maybe. You cannot possibly win if you just charge a bear with it; but with proper tactics you might be able to bait the bear into a situation where you can spear it while it can't get to you.
But a halberd is fundamentally a weapon designed to face armored knights. The axe-head is meant to be able to chop through armor, which tend to be thinner than the fur/body fat that surrounds a bear. Yes, steel plate will be tougher, but the bear will be considerably thicker and that's what really counts here. The axe-head of your halberd won't penetrate any deeper than the fat and superficial musculature of a bear if it's not well fed. Hardly enough for a fatal injury.
And you won't get anymore than a single swing. That I can guarantee you. Bears are VERY fast on close range, and your one swing is the only thing you can get in. Then the bear will be on top of you and biting your neck off.
And this is a dominarian bear with art showing it ripping a big tree in half with a single swing, I daresay it's many times stronger than a grizzly.
I sincerely doubt you'll be able to damage a bear fatally on your own with a halberd.
With a lance/hunting spear? If you're skilled with it and experienced in hunting bears, maybe. You cannot possibly win if you just charge a bear with it; but with proper tactics you might be able to bait the bear into a situation where you can spear it while it can't get to you.
But a halberd is fundamentally a weapon designed to face armored knights. The axe-head is meant to be able to chop through armor, which tend to be thinner than the fur/body fat that surrounds a bear. Yes, steel plate will be tougher, but the bear will be considerably thicker and that's what really counts here. The axe-head of your halberd won't penetrate any deeper than the fat and superficial musculature of a bear if it's not well fed. Hardly enough for a fatal injury.
And you won't get anymore than a single swing. That I can guarantee you. Bears are VERY fast on close range, and your one swing is the only thing you can get in. Then the bear will be on top of you and biting your neck off.
And this is a dominarian bear with art showing it ripping a big tree in half with a single swing, I daresay it's many times stronger than a grizzly.
Obviously, you've never seen one of these, you're probably thinking of a Bardiche or something similar...
It's in the spoiler...
So, a Spear on top of a Halberd... Also, how is that bear fairing when I'm poking its' guts out with a spear-berd, even if my weapon get's stuck inside of it, that's dishing out some MASSIVE damage, enough to cripple the bear long enough for me to get some good aim and throw an axe into it's skull.
No, I know what a halberd looks like. I also know that the lance at the top is typically not much narrower than that of a spear, neither is it bladed on the sides. So the puncture wound won't be large, and it doesn't have the possibility of cutting while its in the bear. It won't deal massive damage because, in all likelihood, you won't be able to hit the bear at the correct angle to even let it penetrate. The axehead gives you a much greater chance because it would strike with much more force.
So, the bear is just going to scream in agony the moment you pierce it and not at all attempt to get to you? And did you forget you acknowledging the fact that small arms fire, or even rounds from high-powered rifles for that matter, cannot penetrate a bear's skull at an angle? Do you really think your axe has more force behind it than a rifle round?
Please keep in mind that, in this scenario, the bear is out to kill you. It is not a normal bear, which would want to run away or drive you away. A bear out to actually kill someone is probably the greatest (land-based) force of nature alive on this planet today. If adrenaline and rage makes people utterly immune to multiple broken bones/limbs torn off/huge bullet wounds, then what do you think an enraged bear will be capable of?
Obviously, you've never seen one of these, you're probably thinking of a Bardiche or something similar...
It's in the spoiler...
So, a Spear on top of a Halberd... Also, how is that bear fairing when I'm poking its' guts out with a spear-berd, even if my weapon get's stuck inside of it, that's dishing out some MASSIVE damage, enough to cripple the bear long enough for me to get some good aim and throw an axe into it's skull.
I'm very familiar with this kind of weapon. It's fairly slow and unwieldy, as far as weapons go. Good luck getting in a hit. Additonally, it's quite accurate that this kind of weapon is designed to fight Plate armor, not the tough gritty muscle and thick fur of animal hide. I doubt you'll do any significant damage with the axe-head on this thing- it's not deisgned to penetrate the kind of target we're dealing with here. Again, you might get it to impale itself ont he spear, but that's a big maybe.
Throwing an axe at its skull will do nothing. Bear skulls have been known to deflect small arms fire. Your axe will bounce off, and that's about it.
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Thalia has spent her intire life training and fighting Demons,vampires, werewolves and legions of zombies. She'll manage far better than some guy whow cam benchpress a few pounds and can google the word halberd..
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Have you actually wielded real, or wooden for that matter, swords or related weapons?
They are incredibly difficult to aim, especially when the target is actively moving and tiny, like the eyes of a bear.
Not to mention, a sword will not penetrate a grizzly's skull, and you will meet the skull even if you magically get your blade through the eyes, with just the force of your thrust. It just won't. There are reports of high-caliber rounds hitting a bear skull at an angle and just bouncing off.
There's a reason why virtually all hunter-gatherer groups hunted in groups. 4-5 people is better than 1. Especially against a wild animal that will naturally look to avoid fighting against things that really want to kill it for food.
Except that's not the scenario here. The bear is not looking to avoid a fight, as most bears that are hunted would act. No, it is out to murder you.
You can bring 10 people with spears and they'll still all die. A grizzly bear has enough force with just a swing of a paw to shatter every part of your body that it comes in contact with.
Not to mention; you really cannot compare yourself with hunter-gatherers. No modern people, save people who grew up in war-zones or other related mentally intense areas, can compare themselves with hunter-gatherers.
Is this thread the real life? Or is this just fantasy? Caught in a bear fight, no escape from reality...
Seriously though, the point of this thread is to find out if it is reasonable to believe (due to the sheer number of 2/2 or greater humans in Magic) that a normal human can take down a Grizzly. Many have theorized that this is not possible in reality, even though, in the game we all play, a Goblin with a pointy stick (which I assume most of us are more intelligent and/or better equipped than) can trade with one and a human with a halberd can take one and live to tell about it.
So would a gunman be able do it? Would a real halberdier be able do it? How about a real swordsman? It's actually quite interesting to read all of these discussions about firepower and the various tactics one tries to employ in this situation. If the majority of us were confident that we'd beat the bear, I would have pit us against a Hill Giant next. If not, I probably would have to make a "You vs. a Squirrel Token" thread next.
Exactly. Didn't think about that, really. So this is probably why the Goblin Piker and Halberdier have better stats than we do? Because they're trained to take on things we don't meet in everyday life?
I lol'd. If I made this legal, we'd also all be trained in the use of flamethrowers (all you need is a lighter and a can of aerosol, after all). I think it's safe to say that if you've never actually held a weapon in your life, you are not trained with it. Anyone routinely carrying a hand grenade with them (for whatever reason) though untrained, would also have it for this battle, but I doubt anyone on the forum does that, so...
Finally, someone other than myself who posted that he thinks he would die taking down the bear! We're clearly the minority.
One blade wouldn't be enough though, and as others have said, you had best not aim for the head. In my case, I'd have at least two short swords and two daggers on me, so when the bear knocks me down, my best shot would be to stab it (using the deepest penetration that can be managed) with as many of them as possible in weak points of the neck or lower body, aiming for vital organs (the head and eyes are too risky due to the thick skull and small targets). That way, when it's done ripping me to shreds, it would at least bleed to death. I hope.
How well do you do against one?
In magic untrained/bad trained people with weapons are 1/1 (see 1/1 soldier and human tokens, eager cadet, etc). Untrained normal people without weapons are probably 0/1 (most of us).
People trained (professional training, not like for fun training) might be a 1/1 first strike. If you have some kind of serious military/enforcement training and know how to defend yourself pretty well you might be a 0/2 or 1/2. The bear still kills you in both ways.
If you have gun weapon training and is really good at shooting and have the right weapon, you might be a 2/1 (you don't shoot well enough to kill the bear, but you hit something vital, the bear kills you and then die from lethal wound).
I think only if you're a career marine or hunter you could consider yourself a 2/1 first strike, enough to kill the bear and tell the tale.
For another reference, a life-time trained, armored and mounted knight is also a 2/2 (Knight Errant). I think one need more then a halberd to defeat one!
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heck, if i make enough fire, i'll burn down the forest and make sure it generates enough CO2 to kill polar bears and wipe them out from the face of the earth, so that i'm never bothered by one. Ever. Again.
always carry a lighter or matches, it Always helps, specially against animals, where you can cook them alive, or after they're dead. flabéd bear, yum yum.
if i lack any of these items, i hide, or feed him with poison berries, or make a trap.
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No if I don't get an assault rifle. I am dead. So very very dead.
Sorry, this is an older post to quote as I've been out of this thread for a bit, but you couldn't even cut through the spinal cord of a ballistic dummy and you think you'll penetrate the skull of a grizzly bear, which can deflect small arms fire? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN SIR
If you can get the bear to lunge at you, you might be able to impale the thing, or rather get it to impale itself with it's own bulk. Unless you get lucky and hit the heart (death) or kidney/liver (immobalizing pain), I'm betting it still kills you before dying.
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Actually a liver shot does not equal immobilizing pain for an animal. My dad shot a deer clean through the liver with a broadhead (arrow) and he and my uncle ended up chasing it down and clubbing it over the head the next day because it was still stumbling through the valley.
Perfect, even better (I'm no hunter, although I have hunted once or twice for my Dad on his farm aniamls that he was having issues with (due to my skill with a bow), I don't really know that much about it. I used to be really really really good, like starting to train for the Olympics good, so I'd just hide for a long time and take out the offending animal with an eye shot.)
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Barring that the hiding thing may work...but that's about all I've got. I have no Illusions of Grandeur and do not think that I could take down a huge grizzly bear with a hunting knife attached to a stick like some people on here. So if hiding/fire doesn't work I die.
That being said, taking this in the context of Magic and the whole P/T deal, I'd say I'm akin to a lowly 1/2 Human, therefore I'm pretty much dead. But if I ever run into a Dominarian Grizzly, I hope I'll be holding onto one of these.
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Heh, I didn't even know this thread was still going, guess I got lucky to just see it toppost...
Who said anything about me hitting it in the head? Sure, it has a hard head, i'm betting anything though I could probably get a good couple swings in and damage the thing fatally.
It HAS other limbs... Plus, I'm armed from head to toe, if the halberd fails, swords, axes, and etc will finish the job. Throwing axes FTW!
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With a lance/hunting spear? If you're skilled with it and experienced in hunting bears, maybe. You cannot possibly win if you just charge a bear with it; but with proper tactics you might be able to bait the bear into a situation where you can spear it while it can't get to you.
But a halberd is fundamentally a weapon designed to face armored knights. The axe-head is meant to be able to chop through armor, which tend to be thinner than the fur/body fat that surrounds a bear. Yes, steel plate will be tougher, but the bear will be considerably thicker and that's what really counts here. The axe-head of your halberd won't penetrate any deeper than the fat and superficial musculature of a bear if it's not well fed. Hardly enough for a fatal injury.
And you won't get anymore than a single swing. That I can guarantee you. Bears are VERY fast on close range, and your one swing is the only thing you can get in. Then the bear will be on top of you and biting your neck off.
And this is a dominarian bear with art showing it ripping a big tree in half with a single swing, I daresay it's many times stronger than a grizzly.
Obviously, you've never seen one of these, you're probably thinking of a Bardiche or something similar...
It's in the spoiler...
So, a Spear on top of a Halberd... Also, how is that bear fairing when I'm poking its' guts out with a spear-berd, even if my weapon get's stuck inside of it, that's dishing out some MASSIVE damage, enough to cripple the bear long enough for me to get some good aim and throw an axe into it's skull.
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So, the bear is just going to scream in agony the moment you pierce it and not at all attempt to get to you? And did you forget you acknowledging the fact that small arms fire, or even rounds from high-powered rifles for that matter, cannot penetrate a bear's skull at an angle? Do you really think your axe has more force behind it than a rifle round?
Please keep in mind that, in this scenario, the bear is out to kill you. It is not a normal bear, which would want to run away or drive you away. A bear out to actually kill someone is probably the greatest (land-based) force of nature alive on this planet today. If adrenaline and rage makes people utterly immune to multiple broken bones/limbs torn off/huge bullet wounds, then what do you think an enraged bear will be capable of?
I'm very familiar with this kind of weapon. It's fairly slow and unwieldy, as far as weapons go. Good luck getting in a hit. Additonally, it's quite accurate that this kind of weapon is designed to fight Plate armor, not the tough gritty muscle and thick fur of animal hide. I doubt you'll do any significant damage with the axe-head on this thing- it's not deisgned to penetrate the kind of target we're dealing with here. Again, you might get it to impale itself ont he spear, but that's a big maybe.
Throwing an axe at its skull will do nothing. Bear skulls have been known to deflect small arms fire. Your axe will bounce off, and that's about it.
- Willy Wonka
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