Well, the sad part is, one vortex Grenade on the death star would destroy it. in the canon, vortex grenades have swallowed up entire battlefields before. leaving nothing but a gaping hole in the planet. They're a mighty dangerous piece of tech, and just about every section of the Imperium's military has access to them.
Not to mention even low tier psykers can wreak devastation on a global scale.
Yes, you would be right about the Death Star. However, the Galaxy Gun can fire projectiles from a secure location many light-years away that travel through hyperspace and can destroy whole planets. Good luck defending against that. You also have to remember Palpatine's ability to create force storms, which are able to displace anything they touch through space and time at infinite range and destroy anything in their paths.
Again, show me, on film, where the Death star moves in hyperspace. I see no propulsion on that station, plus, there's a reason stations don't move that fast. It's not physically possible.
Then Again, this is star wars, some form of magic protects it against the laws of physics.
If there was no propulsion, then how did it move across the galaxy quickly from Alderaan to Yavin? Also, maybe this link would help, specifically this one quote right here.
Facilitating the Death Star's realspace propulsion were a network of powerful ion engines that transformed reactor power into needed thrust. In order for the Death Star to be a deadly threat, it needed to be mobile. Using linked banks of 123 hyperdrive field generators tied into a single navigational matrix, the Death Star could travel across the Galaxy at superluminal velocities.
Right, you're using information from outside of canon to justify your argument.
I think you will find Episode 6 is cannon. And it is not possible to travel interstellar distances at less than superluminal speeds.
I'm using known psyker abilities against you and you claim you need citation? There are COUNTLESS stories of Psykers mind-raping the entire populace of a planet.
Again citation needed and more than "countless tales" I also what to see where these people were working on the side of the Imperium.
Tzeentch was responsible for the warp storm around the Tau Empire's homeworlds that concealed them from the Imperium. (Tzeentch has a flare for being meddlesome)
In Essence, Tzeentch could literally snap his fingers and make the death star disappear and turn Palpatine into a pretzel. Literally.
You really think they're going to let some OTHER Corpse lay claim to the galaxy? In their opinion, it'd be better to take you out while you're weaker (haven't destroyed terra, etc.) before you try to claim the galaxy for your own.
And the relevance of anything outside the Imperium in a fight between the Imperium and the Star Wars Galaxy is what precisly?
Palpatine and his empire's mere Presence in the 40K universe would have everyone gunning for him. Hell, even the Eldar would want him dead.
Again Relevance?
Hint there is none
Plus, Emperor, most powerful psyker in the galaxy. You really don't think there's a chance the death star could make it to terra, do you?
Correction the Emperor was the most powerful psyker in the galaxy the last 10 thousand years have not been kind to him. The only people who have seen him in the past 10 thousand years are the Adeptus custodes, the former head of the Brides of the Emperor and 1 rogue inquisitor. And when the Inqusitor snuck in to talk to him he had issues bringing all his personalities together.
Dude, this argument is over, The Imperium wins, hands down. look at the votes. I wish someone would lock this thread already.
REgretably the votes are against the Star Wars Empire but a large part of that was due to a lot of overblown posts made for the Imperium which have either been proved to be false or not had anything to back them up.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Right, you're using information from outside of canon to justify your argument.
I think you will find Episode 6 is cannon. And it is not possible to travel interstellar distances at less than superluminal speeds.
I'm using known psyker abilities against you and you claim you need citation? There are COUNTLESS stories of Psykers mind-raping the entire populace of a planet.
Again citation needed and more than "countless tales" I also what to see where these people were working on the side of the Imperium.
Tzeentch was responsible for the warp storm around the Tau Empire's homeworlds that concealed them from the Imperium. (Tzeentch has a flare for being meddlesome)
In Essence, Tzeentch could literally snap his fingers and make the death star disappear and turn Palpatine into a pretzel. Literally.
You really think they're going to let some OTHER Corpse lay claim to the galaxy? In their opinion, it'd be better to take you out while you're weaker (haven't destroyed terra, etc.) before you try to claim the galaxy for your own.
And the relevance of anything outside the Imperium in a fight between the Imperium and the Star Wars Galaxy is what precisly?
Palpatine and his empire's mere Presence in the 40K universe would have everyone gunning for him. Hell, even the Eldar would want him dead.
Again Relevance?
Hint there is none
Plus, Emperor, most powerful psyker in the galaxy. You really don't think there's a chance the death star could make it to terra, do you?
Correction the Emperor was the most powerful psyker in the galaxy the last 10 thousand years have not been kind to him. The only people who have seen him in the past 10 thousand years are the Adeptus custodes, the former head of the Brides of the Emperor and 1 rogue inquisitor. And when the Inqusitor snuck in to talk to him he had issues bringing all his personalities together.
Dude, this argument is over, The Imperium wins, hands down. look at the votes. I wish someone would lock this thread already.
REgretably the votes are against the Star Wars Empire but a large part of that was due to a lot of overblown posts made for the Imperium which have either been proved to be false or not had anything to back them up.
I'm not going to take valuable time out of my busy day just to scour thousands of books for Psyker abilities just to please your ego.
Palpatine Lost this argument, Lock please.
EDIT: Another nail in the coffin, before Palpatine Died, they didn't have a mobile Death Star. The one they had got blown up by a fighter... a SMALL FIGHTER. I'm pretty sure a Librarian could use a personal teleporter, get on board, and literally Wreck the place, all by himself.
As for palpatine, Ooh, force lightning, big whoop. Pretty sure any space marine's Power armor would shrug it off, as evidenced in the Dawn of War 2 trailer, marine getting shocked? how about he just eviscerates palpatine with his chainsword?
I'm not going to take valuable time out of my busy day just to scour thousands of books for Psyker abilities just to please your ego.
Won't or can't? And I am not the one demanding that people accept what I post whilst refusing to post and evidence to back up my claims.
Palpatine Lost this argument, Lock please.
EDIT: Another nail in the coffin, before Palpatine Died, they didn't have a mobile Death Star. The one they had got blown up by a fighter... a SMALL FIGHTER. I'm pretty sure a Librarian could use a personal teleporter, get on board, and literally Wreck the place, all by himself.
You may want to watch the film again. The one in Episode 4 managed to move from Alderaan to Yavin. So it moved a heck of a lot for an immobile station.
As for palpatine, Ooh, force lightning, big whoop. Pretty sure any space marine's Power armor would shrug it off, as evidenced in the Dawn of War 2 trailer, marine getting shocked? how about he just eviscerates palpatine with his chainsword?
Counter citation: Battle for Helsreach, Black Templar by the name of Priamus takes a harpoon to the chest which then is electrified burning out every motor and actuator in his armour leaving him a statue that the orks then knock over. They are only stopped from shucking him out of his armor by the timely arrival of the crusade Chaplin.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
No, because a Normal Psyker is infinitely more powerful than Palpatine.
Seriously, someone, Lock this thread.
I notice that you haven't provided any proof. I have linked to a page that shows that Palpatine had the ability to send matter through space and time at any distance/and or destroy huge amounts of matter instantaneously. What can the Emperor do that could beat that? Also, I notice that you weren't even willing to admit that you were wrong about the Death Star having a hyperdrive. If you can't admit when you are wrong, there really is no point to arguing with you.
Right, you're using information from outside of canon to justify your argument.
I think you will find Episode 6 is cannon. And it is not possible to travel interstellar distances at less than superluminal speeds.
I'm using known psyker abilities against you and you claim you need citation? There are COUNTLESS stories of Psykers mind-raping the entire populace of a planet.
Again citation needed and more than "countless tales" I also what to see where these people were working on the side of the Imperium.
Tzeentch was responsible for the warp storm around the Tau Empire's homeworlds that concealed them from the Imperium. (Tzeentch has a flare for being meddlesome)
In Essence, Tzeentch could literally snap his fingers and make the death star disappear and turn Palpatine into a pretzel. Literally.
You really think they're going to let some OTHER Corpse lay claim to the galaxy? In their opinion, it'd be better to take you out while you're weaker (haven't destroyed terra, etc.) before you try to claim the galaxy for your own.
And the relevance of anything outside the Imperium in a fight between the Imperium and the Star Wars Galaxy is what precisly?
Palpatine and his empire's mere Presence in the 40K universe would have everyone gunning for him. Hell, even the Eldar would want him dead.
Again Relevance?
Hint there is none
Plus, Emperor, most powerful psyker in the galaxy. You really don't think there's a chance the death star could make it to terra, do you?
Correction the Emperor was the most powerful psyker in the galaxy the last 10 thousand years have not been kind to him. The only people who have seen him in the past 10 thousand years are the Adeptus custodes, the former head of the Brides of the Emperor and 1 rogue inquisitor. And when the Inqusitor snuck in to talk to him he had issues bringing all his personalities together.
Dude, this argument is over, The Imperium wins, hands down. look at the votes. I wish someone would lock this thread already.
REgretably the votes are against the Star Wars Empire but a large part of that was due to a lot of overblown posts made for the Imperium which have either been proved to be false or not had anything to back them up.
I'm not going to take valuable time out of my busy day just to scour thousands of books for Psyker abilities just to please your ego.
Palpatine Lost this argument, Lock please.
EDIT: Another nail in the coffin, before Palpatine Died, they didn't have a mobile Death Star. The one they had got blown up by a fighter... a SMALL FIGHTER. I'm pretty sure a Librarian could use a personal teleporter, get on board, and literally Wreck the place, all by himself.
As for palpatine, Ooh, force lightning, big whoop. Pretty sure any space marine's Power armor would shrug it off, as evidenced in the Dawn of War 2 trailer, marine getting shocked? how about he just eviscerates palpatine with his chainsword?
You haven't provided any sources for your ridiculous claims. I have provided sources for mine. There is a Warhammer 40k wiki. Go find proof there and give us links to it. But until you actually show us that you are right, you are wrong.
I'm not entertaining any arguments using SW EU, EU was nullified this year, none of these arguments were shown in films, if he had that power, why didn't he use it against the rebel fleet in RotJ?
Stop bringing up EU, it's dead Jim.
I don't have to look at SW EU anymore, it gave me a headache before, but since it all "never happened" now, I can breathe a little easier.
I'm not entertaining any arguments using SW EU, EU was nullified this year, none of these arguments were shown in films, if he had that power, why didn't he use it against the rebel fleet in RotJ?
Stop bringing up EU, it's dead Jim.
It wasn't dead when this thread started. Since we can't make you retroactively change things said earlier in the thread like "10 Space Marines can take over an entire planet all by themselves", there is no reason why we should not use the EU, especially since non-Canon EU products are still being released.
Edit: Also, bringing up a Star Trek related phrase when talking about Star Wars? That's just plain wrong.
You know what? If my IP's parent company later retconned the bit about 10 supermen and their father conquering the galaxy, I would have no trouble bringing up something else from said company.
But, GW didn't, and is actually making primarchs and etc more powerful in the fluff, so, they're being retconned in a good way.
Really, I'm just tired of this argument, it was exhausting last year, and it's exhausting now.
You know what? If my IP's parent company later retconned the bit about 10 supermen and their father conquering the galaxy, I would have no trouble bringing up something else from said company.
But, GW didn't, and is actually making primarchs and etc more powerful in the fluff, so, they're being retconned in a good way.
Really, I'm just tired of this argument, it was exhausting last year, and it's exhausting now.
This thread was a battle between the Galactic Empire and the Imperium from when your post was made. Retcons made mid-discussion shouldn't affect anything. If they did, all of the DC versus threads would have been changed when the New 52 came out.
My personal opinion is that 41st millenium Imperium will win, but Empire will give them a good fight. Great Crusade seems like a wipeout
-Space warfare
Empire's space technology also seems to be superior. Biggest obvious advantage is hyperspace over Warp travel. Furthermore they seem to have better production and heavier emphasis on space warfare (debatable, Imperium has worlds and populations dedicated to production, but spaceships are more prevalent in Star Wars). They also have more varied arsenal like mines [Destiny's Way], Interdictors, StealthX for Jedi [Legacy of the Force], and are more adaptable with technology. Small craft like X-wings are hyperdrive capable, making it easy for tactical strikes [Rogue Squadron, Jedi]. 40k doesn't seem to place that much emphasis on spacecraft (correct me if I'm wrong here, not that familiar with 40k). Although, 40k does have quite a few ships around, considering Cadia's defence. Exterminatus is quite prevalent in 40k and cruisers carry planet-destroying weapons, something the Empire builds superweapons for. Still I believe Empire has the upper hand in space warfare.
-Land warfare
On ground forces I think the Imperium wins. Imperium mobilises Guard armies in force, then throw in Mechanicum Legios, Sisters, assassins and Astartes. Jedi have advantage over psykers because Perils of Warp, but there are more psykers than Jedi, heck it seems there are more Librarians than Jedi. Then there's the Astartes. Standard bolter rounds are powerful (Angel Exterminatus has a grisly description about how a bolter round kills unaugmented humans) and Marine armor is capable of withstanding multiple shots. Then you have the superhuman physicality and mentality of Astartes. There are also a lot of Astartes. I'll argue that Jedi can't handle Space Marines, Sith have a much better chance. Will go into detail if anyone is interested in my reasoning, but the simplest analogy would be to consider Mandalorians.
-Mentality, I feel this is significant
I doubt anyone disagrees that Star Wars clearly has superior living standards even in the Empire :). But at the same time it makes them soft, not just compared to 40k. The Imperium's ruthlessness is a boon in war. Imperial Guard faces a lot more death and aren't afraid to throw people to theirs. Commissars execute Guardsmen for shows of weaknesses. Exterminatus is way more common. Astartes go through harsh trials before being considered for induction. Violence is encouraged as long as it's on the same side. 40k is built on suffering, though, so this is to be expected.
-Force vs Warp
Assume Force is distinct from the Warp, that's a huge advantage over psykers. Note Sith >> Jedi as they don't hesitate to kill using the Force, they use some Chaos-esque powers. Force Lightning, Force Web [Lomi Plo], thought bombs [Darth Bane], Force phantoms etc. However the temptations of the dark side seem like a joke compared to that of the Warp. Hence assume the Force is distinct from the Warp, else daemons open a new can of worms.
So... to sum up:
40k: Numbers, sheer power, mentality
Star Wars: Varied and reliable technology, doesn't suffer huge weaknesses (Warp), better space warfare
Regarding 40k being over-the-top, I'll argue that Star Wars (EU) has more plot armor. For all the crazy things in 40k, their enemies have the equivalent if not better, and the struggle (grimdark) is very evident in most books. In most Star Wars events a few Jedi pretty much solve everything, and Star Wars storylines have IMO more ridiculous turns (The infamous stormtrooper scene, how Thrawn died, 4 year old kids piloting the Falcon...)
I'm not gonna argue anymore, I think we should just let this thread die.
You only say that because you lost and are too lazy to come up with a coherent effort to proof the other side wrong.
Actually, the votes say otherwise.
That's just because most of the people cast their votes based off of ridiculous claims that you and others made in this thread with no sources. And right now, you are not providing a coherent argument. You are basically saying "It's too late, everyone was convinced by me despite me not providing any proof, so why do I have to justify myself to you?"
I'm not gonna argue anymore, I think we should just let this thread die.
You only say that because you lost and are too lazy to come up with a coherent effort to proof the other side wrong.
Actually, the votes say otherwise.
That's just because most of the people cast their votes based off of ridiculous claims that you and others made in this thread with no sources. And right now, you are not providing a coherent argument. You are basically saying "It's too late, everyone was convinced by me despite me not providing any proof, so why do I have to justify myself to you?"
Ok, how about this?
Most of what I've seen in the Star Wars films couldn't POSSIBLY compare to anything from the 40K universe?
The blasters and lasers, they don't seem particularly powerful, against unshielded targets, they appear to just glance and glance until things start to fall off.
Against shielded and heavily armored enemies, like the Imperium's Navy, I'd highly doubt their space weapons would do much, Remember, in Star Wars, tech always seems to downgrade the further into the future you get. I don't know what Star Wars uses for shielding, but it always goes down after the first hit. :-/. I highly doubt those wimpy little lasers could penetrate a Cruiser's Void Shielding.
Let's talk ground forces. The Empire is extremely Outmatched. In every possible way. The Imperium isn't afraid to just throw bodies at a problem until it goes away. Plus, the Imperium's weapons of war are much more dangerous than those of the empire. Ooh, blasters, big whoop, REgular issue equipment among the Imperium's Military include Boltguns, Flamers, Meltaguns, Plasma Guns, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Las Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Grav Guns (Yes, it's exactly how it sounds) Missile Launchers, Chain Swords, Power Swords, Power Axes, Power Fists, Chain Fists, Combi-weapons.
Not to Mention, vehicle weaponry goes into whole new levels of bad-assery. How about the Apocalypse Missile Launcher? Infernus Cannon, Plasma Destroyer, Many titan Weapons are classified as "destroyer" type weapons, One shot from them and the empire's biggest, baddest war machines go down. Not to mention the largest Land Vehicle the empire has, (The At-At) Is literally dwarfed by the Imperium's Warhound Titans, and is outmatched by its' speed.
Overall, the Imperium is a battle hardened, fearless, killing machine driven by war.
The Empire is a soft, cushy dictatorship, they wouldn't last a month in the 40K universe.
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[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
I'm not gonna argue anymore, I think we should just let this thread die.
You only say that because you lost and are too lazy to come up with a coherent effort to proof the other side wrong.
Actually, the votes say otherwise.
That's just because most of the people cast their votes based off of ridiculous claims that you and others made in this thread with no sources. And right now, you are not providing a coherent argument. You are basically saying "It's too late, everyone was convinced by me despite me not providing any proof, so why do I have to justify myself to you?"
Ok, how about this?
Most of what I've seen in the Star Wars films couldn't POSSIBLY compare to anything from the 40K universe?
The blasters and lasers, they don't seem particularly powerful, against unshielded targets, they appear to just glance and glance until things start to fall off.
Against shielded and heavily armored enemies, like the Imperium's Navy, I'd highly doubt their space weapons would do much, Remember, in Star Wars, tech always seems to downgrade the further into the future you get. I don't know what Star Wars uses for shielding, but it always goes down after the first hit. :-/. I highly doubt those wimpy little lasers could penetrate a Cruiser's Void Shielding.
Let's talk ground forces. The Empire is extremely Outmatched. In every possible way. The Imperium isn't afraid to just throw bodies at a problem until it goes away. Plus, the Imperium's weapons of war are much more dangerous than those of the empire. Ooh, blasters, big whoop, REgular issue equipment among the Imperium's Military include Boltguns, Flamers, Meltaguns, Plasma Guns, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Las Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Grav Guns (Yes, it's exactly how it sounds) Missile Launchers, Chain Swords, Power Swords, Power Axes, Power Fists, Chain Fists, Combi-weapons.
Not to Mention, vehicle weaponry goes into whole new levels of bad-assery. How about the Apocalypse Missile Launcher? Infernus Cannon, Plasma Destroyer, Many titan Weapons are classified as "destroyer" type weapons, One shot from them and the empire's biggest, baddest war machines go down. Not to mention the largest Land Vehicle the empire has, (The At-At) Is literally dwarfed by the Imperium's Warhound Titans, and is outmatched by its' speed.
Overall, the Imperium is a battle hardened, fearless, killing machine driven by war.
The Empire is a soft, cushy dictatorship, they wouldn't last a month in the 40K universe.
As I said, you are relying only on what was in the films, despite the fact that the EU has much more that raises the Empire's power-level significantly. You can say all that you want about the EU being dismantled, but since that was not in the discussion when this thread was started, I see no reason why the rules of this discussion should be changed midway. When you add the EU, Palpatine has the ability to manipulate space and time and destroy matter from any distance and the empire has access to superweapons much more powerful than the Death Star (the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators, the Sun Crusher). They don't need a strong military if they have those.
You only say that because you lost and are too lazy to come up with a coherent effort to proof the other side wrong.
Actually, the votes say otherwise.
That's just because most of the people cast their votes based off of ridiculous claims that you and others made in this thread with no sources. And right now, you are not providing a coherent argument. You are basically saying "It's too late, everyone was convinced by me despite me not providing any proof, so why do I have to justify myself to you?"
Ok, how about this?
Most of what I've seen in the Star Wars films couldn't POSSIBLY compare to anything from the 40K universe?
The blasters and lasers, they don't seem particularly powerful, against unshielded targets, they appear to just glance and glance until things start to fall off.
Against shielded and heavily armored enemies, like the Imperium's Navy, I'd highly doubt their space weapons would do much, Remember, in Star Wars, tech always seems to downgrade the further into the future you get. I don't know what Star Wars uses for shielding, but it always goes down after the first hit. :-/. I highly doubt those wimpy little lasers could penetrate a Cruiser's Void Shielding.
Let's talk ground forces. The Empire is extremely Outmatched. In every possible way. The Imperium isn't afraid to just throw bodies at a problem until it goes away. Plus, the Imperium's weapons of war are much more dangerous than those of the empire. Ooh, blasters, big whoop, REgular issue equipment among the Imperium's Military include Boltguns, Flamers, Meltaguns, Plasma Guns, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Las Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Grav Guns (Yes, it's exactly how it sounds) Missile Launchers, Chain Swords, Power Swords, Power Axes, Power Fists, Chain Fists, Combi-weapons.
Not to Mention, vehicle weaponry goes into whole new levels of bad-assery. How about the Apocalypse Missile Launcher? Infernus Cannon, Plasma Destroyer, Many titan Weapons are classified as "destroyer" type weapons, One shot from them and the empire's biggest, baddest war machines go down. Not to mention the largest Land Vehicle the empire has, (The At-At) Is literally dwarfed by the Imperium's Warhound Titans, and is outmatched by its' speed.
Overall, the Imperium is a battle hardened, fearless, killing machine driven by war.
The Empire is a soft, cushy dictatorship, they wouldn't last a month in the 40K universe.
As I said, you are relying only on what was in the films, despite the fact that the EU has much more that raises the Empire's power-level significantly. You can say all that you want about the EU being dismantled, but since that was not in the discussion when this thread was started, I see no reason why the rules of this discussion should be changed midway. When you add the EU, Palpatine has the ability to manipulate space and time and destroy matter from any distance and the empire has access to superweapons much more powerful than the Death Star (the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators, the Sun Crusher). They don't need a strong military if they have those.
Really? Plot Armor, Plot Armor, and oh yeah? More Plot Armor?
Really bro, if they had all that, then there really wouldn't have been a point to episodes 4-6, They could've just used superweapons and destroyed everything, There had to be a reason they couldn't use those until AFTER Palpatine's death. And this takes place before RotJ. So they don't have those, period.
That's just because most of the people cast their votes based off of ridiculous claims that you and others made in this thread with no sources. And right now, you are not providing a coherent argument. You are basically saying "It's too late, everyone was convinced by me despite me not providing any proof, so why do I have to justify myself to you?"
Ok, how about this?
Most of what I've seen in the Star Wars films couldn't POSSIBLY compare to anything from the 40K universe?
The blasters and lasers, they don't seem particularly powerful, against unshielded targets, they appear to just glance and glance until things start to fall off.
Against shielded and heavily armored enemies, like the Imperium's Navy, I'd highly doubt their space weapons would do much, Remember, in Star Wars, tech always seems to downgrade the further into the future you get. I don't know what Star Wars uses for shielding, but it always goes down after the first hit. :-/. I highly doubt those wimpy little lasers could penetrate a Cruiser's Void Shielding.
Let's talk ground forces. The Empire is extremely Outmatched. In every possible way. The Imperium isn't afraid to just throw bodies at a problem until it goes away. Plus, the Imperium's weapons of war are much more dangerous than those of the empire. Ooh, blasters, big whoop, REgular issue equipment among the Imperium's Military include Boltguns, Flamers, Meltaguns, Plasma Guns, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Las Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Grav Guns (Yes, it's exactly how it sounds) Missile Launchers, Chain Swords, Power Swords, Power Axes, Power Fists, Chain Fists, Combi-weapons.
Not to Mention, vehicle weaponry goes into whole new levels of bad-assery. How about the Apocalypse Missile Launcher? Infernus Cannon, Plasma Destroyer, Many titan Weapons are classified as "destroyer" type weapons, One shot from them and the empire's biggest, baddest war machines go down. Not to mention the largest Land Vehicle the empire has, (The At-At) Is literally dwarfed by the Imperium's Warhound Titans, and is outmatched by its' speed.
Overall, the Imperium is a battle hardened, fearless, killing machine driven by war.
The Empire is a soft, cushy dictatorship, they wouldn't last a month in the 40K universe.
As I said, you are relying only on what was in the films, despite the fact that the EU has much more that raises the Empire's power-level significantly. You can say all that you want about the EU being dismantled, but since that was not in the discussion when this thread was started, I see no reason why the rules of this discussion should be changed midway. When you add the EU, Palpatine has the ability to manipulate space and time and destroy matter from any distance and the empire has access to superweapons much more powerful than the Death Star (the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators, the Sun Crusher). They don't need a strong military if they have those.
Really? Plot Armor, Plot Armor, and oh yeah? More Plot Armor?
Really bro, if they had all that, then there really wouldn't have been a point to episodes 4-6, They could've just used superweapons and destroyed everything, There had to be a reason they couldn't use those until AFTER Palpatine's death. And this takes place before RotJ. So they don't have those, period.
Tell me where in the OP it says that this takes place before RotJ.
Edit: [B][U]This takes place before Palpatine's death and after the Horus Heresy.
Cool off, you two.
You can use the EU, but you need to make sure the weapons are available in the applicable time frame. Also, remember Movies > Word of Authority > Books > Comics > Video Games when it comes to Star Wars canon. Much of what Palpatine told Luke in Dark Empire was a lie, and the Force Storm ability isn't something that can be used repeatedly. A lot of the EU super weapons were under construction or only prototypes during the movies, while the Death Stars were a production-ready product.
However, the Empire DID have Thrawn at that point, and at least the ability to level planets. I don't know enough about the 40k universe to make a definitive statement, but it's my impression that much of their technology reaches almost magic levels of power.
Edit: [B][U]This takes place before Palpatine's death and after the Horus Heresy.
Cool off, you two.
You can use the EU, but you need to make sure the weapons are available in the applicable time frame. Also, remember Movies > Word of Authority > Books > Comics > Video Games when it comes to Star Wars canon. Much of what Palpatine told Luke in Dark Empire was a lie, and the Force Storm ability isn't something that can be used repeatedly. A lot of the EU super weapons were under construction or only prototypes during the movies, while the Death Stars were a production-ready product.
However, the Empire DID have Thrawn at that point, and at least the ability to level planets. I don't know enough about the 40k universe to make a definitive statement, but it's my impression that much of their technology reaches almost magic levels of power.
Before Palpatine's death is technically before his final death, which was at the end of Dark Empire. Also, Force Storm was used repeatably in Dark Empire, which shows that it can be used multiple times.
Before Palpatine's death is technically before his final death, which was at the end of Dark Empire. Also, Force Storm was used repeatably in Dark Empire, which shows that it can be used multiple times.
I meant before his ROTJ Death, which is what the OP specified. And as far as the force storm, I meant rapidly, not repeatedly.
Before Palpatine's death is technically before his final death, which was at the end of Dark Empire. Also, Force Storm was used repeatably in Dark Empire, which shows that it can be used multiple times.
I meant before his ROTJ Death, which is what the OP specified. And as far as the force storm, I meant rapidly, not repeatedly.
Actually, the OP does not specify which death it was talking about.
Before Palpatine's death is technically before his final death, which was at the end of Dark Empire. Also, Force Storm was used repeatably in Dark Empire, which shows that it can be used multiple times.
I meant before his ROTJ Death, which is what the OP specified. And as far as the force storm, I meant rapidly, not repeatedly.
Actually, the OP does not specify which death it was talking about.
The Spirit of the OP was his death in RotJ, only a few, die hard fans really know that there were multiple palpatine clones.
The Films leave it as his death. That's the only one most people would be familiar with.
So, basically, you have a half-corpse palpatine and Darth Vader, who are like, the last force-users openly strutting their stuff, versus a galaxy filled with beings who are capable of much more than them. Psykers and Librarians are no easy foe, If one Librarian has the guts and skills to stand up to a Bloodthirster, and almost win (remember, Bloodthirsters are avatars of the Chaos God Khorne, Their martial prowess and physical strength are universally feared. The Bloodthirster is the ultimate embodiment of battle) Then just one would definitely be more than a handful for Darth Vader and Palpatine, who in his decripid age I don't expect to last long in a physical confrontation.
Then there's the Grey Knights, all of which are inherently Psychic (Brotherhood of Psykers, All utilize Psychic Hoods to contentrate and hone their abilities, and block the abilities of their enemies.) And they use shells blessed by tears from the Emperor. Making them stronger. Psybolt shells are kinda nasty. They're highly trained to fight the supernatural abilities of their enemies. So, they can fight Darth and palpatine pretty handily. And they have Personal Teleporters so they could just teleport into Palpatine's conference chamber, and slay him.
Also, who do you think is the more invigorated fighter? one who fights for political dominance through trickery and subterfuge, or one who fights with Religious Zeal?
I'm going with the Zealots who fight in the Emprah's name.
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Yes, you would be right about the Death Star. However, the Galaxy Gun can fire projectiles from a secure location many light-years away that travel through hyperspace and can destroy whole planets. Good luck defending against that. You also have to remember Palpatine's ability to create force storms, which are able to displace anything they touch through space and time at infinite range and destroy anything in their paths.
Just saying, while the EU has been nullified it wasn't at the start of this debate so it cannot be discounted.
If there was no propulsion, then how did it move across the galaxy quickly from Alderaan to Yavin? Also, maybe this link would help, specifically this one quote right here.
Satisfied?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Seriously, someone, Lock this thread.
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I think you will find Episode 6 is cannon. And it is not possible to travel interstellar distances at less than superluminal speeds.
Again citation needed and more than "countless tales" I also what to see where these people were working on the side of the Imperium.
And the relevance of anything outside the Imperium in a fight between the Imperium and the Star Wars Galaxy is what precisly?
Again Relevance?
Hint there is none
Correction the Emperor was the most powerful psyker in the galaxy the last 10 thousand years have not been kind to him. The only people who have seen him in the past 10 thousand years are the Adeptus custodes, the former head of the Brides of the Emperor and 1 rogue inquisitor. And when the Inqusitor snuck in to talk to him he had issues bringing all his personalities together.
REgretably the votes are against the Star Wars Empire but a large part of that was due to a lot of overblown posts made for the Imperium which have either been proved to be false or not had anything to back them up.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
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I'm not going to take valuable time out of my busy day just to scour thousands of books for Psyker abilities just to please your ego.
Palpatine Lost this argument, Lock please.
EDIT: Another nail in the coffin, before Palpatine Died, they didn't have a mobile Death Star. The one they had got blown up by a fighter... a SMALL FIGHTER. I'm pretty sure a Librarian could use a personal teleporter, get on board, and literally Wreck the place, all by himself.
As for palpatine, Ooh, force lightning, big whoop. Pretty sure any space marine's Power armor would shrug it off, as evidenced in the Dawn of War 2 trailer, marine getting shocked? how about he just eviscerates palpatine with his chainsword?
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Won't or can't? And I am not the one demanding that people accept what I post whilst refusing to post and evidence to back up my claims.
You may want to watch the film again. The one in Episode 4 managed to move from Alderaan to Yavin. So it moved a heck of a lot for an immobile station.
Counter citation: Battle for Helsreach, Black Templar by the name of Priamus takes a harpoon to the chest which then is electrified burning out every motor and actuator in his armour leaving him a statue that the orks then knock over. They are only stopped from shucking him out of his armor by the timely arrival of the crusade Chaplin.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
I notice that you haven't provided any proof. I have linked to a page that shows that Palpatine had the ability to send matter through space and time at any distance/and or destroy huge amounts of matter instantaneously. What can the Emperor do that could beat that? Also, I notice that you weren't even willing to admit that you were wrong about the Death Star having a hyperdrive. If you can't admit when you are wrong, there really is no point to arguing with you.
As I said, it isn't the Force Lightning. It's the Force Storms, along with the infinite range planet-destroying missile launchers, fleet of planet-eating mobile factories, and indestructible fighters with sun-destroying torpedoes.
You haven't provided any sources for your ridiculous claims. I have provided sources for mine. There is a Warhammer 40k wiki. Go find proof there and give us links to it. But until you actually show us that you are right, you are wrong.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Stop bringing up EU, it's dead Jim.
I don't have to look at SW EU anymore, it gave me a headache before, but since it all "never happened" now, I can breathe a little easier.
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It wasn't dead when this thread started. Since we can't make you retroactively change things said earlier in the thread like "10 Space Marines can take over an entire planet all by themselves", there is no reason why we should not use the EU, especially since non-Canon EU products are still being released.
Edit: Also, bringing up a Star Trek related phrase when talking about Star Wars? That's just plain wrong.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
But, GW didn't, and is actually making primarchs and etc more powerful in the fluff, so, they're being retconned in a good way.
Really, I'm just tired of this argument, it was exhausting last year, and it's exhausting now.
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This thread was a battle between the Galactic Empire and the Imperium from when your post was made. Retcons made mid-discussion shouldn't affect anything. If they did, all of the DC versus threads would have been changed when the New 52 came out.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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-Space warfare
Empire's space technology also seems to be superior. Biggest obvious advantage is hyperspace over Warp travel. Furthermore they seem to have better production and heavier emphasis on space warfare (debatable, Imperium has worlds and populations dedicated to production, but spaceships are more prevalent in Star Wars). They also have more varied arsenal like mines [Destiny's Way], Interdictors, StealthX for Jedi [Legacy of the Force], and are more adaptable with technology. Small craft like X-wings are hyperdrive capable, making it easy for tactical strikes [Rogue Squadron, Jedi]. 40k doesn't seem to place that much emphasis on spacecraft (correct me if I'm wrong here, not that familiar with 40k). Although, 40k does have quite a few ships around, considering Cadia's defence. Exterminatus is quite prevalent in 40k and cruisers carry planet-destroying weapons, something the Empire builds superweapons for. Still I believe Empire has the upper hand in space warfare.
-Land warfare
On ground forces I think the Imperium wins. Imperium mobilises Guard armies in force, then throw in Mechanicum Legios, Sisters, assassins and Astartes. Jedi have advantage over psykers because Perils of Warp, but there are more psykers than Jedi, heck it seems there are more Librarians than Jedi. Then there's the Astartes. Standard bolter rounds are powerful (Angel Exterminatus has a grisly description about how a bolter round kills unaugmented humans) and Marine armor is capable of withstanding multiple shots. Then you have the superhuman physicality and mentality of Astartes. There are also a lot of Astartes. I'll argue that Jedi can't handle Space Marines, Sith have a much better chance. Will go into detail if anyone is interested in my reasoning, but the simplest analogy would be to consider Mandalorians.
-Mentality, I feel this is significant
I doubt anyone disagrees that Star Wars clearly has superior living standards even in the Empire :). But at the same time it makes them soft, not just compared to 40k. The Imperium's ruthlessness is a boon in war. Imperial Guard faces a lot more death and aren't afraid to throw people to theirs. Commissars execute Guardsmen for shows of weaknesses. Exterminatus is way more common. Astartes go through harsh trials before being considered for induction. Violence is encouraged as long as it's on the same side. 40k is built on suffering, though, so this is to be expected.
-Force vs Warp
Assume Force is distinct from the Warp, that's a huge advantage over psykers. Note Sith >> Jedi as they don't hesitate to kill using the Force, they use some Chaos-esque powers. Force Lightning, Force Web [Lomi Plo], thought bombs [Darth Bane], Force phantoms etc. However the temptations of the dark side seem like a joke compared to that of the Warp. Hence assume the Force is distinct from the Warp, else daemons open a new can of worms.
So... to sum up:
40k: Numbers, sheer power, mentality
Star Wars: Varied and reliable technology, doesn't suffer huge weaknesses (Warp), better space warfare
Regarding 40k being over-the-top, I'll argue that Star Wars (EU) has more plot armor. For all the crazy things in 40k, their enemies have the equivalent if not better, and the struggle (grimdark) is very evident in most books. In most Star Wars events a few Jedi pretty much solve everything, and Star Wars storylines have IMO more ridiculous turns (The infamous stormtrooper scene, how Thrawn died, 4 year old kids piloting the Falcon...)
You only say that because you lost and are too lazy to come up with a coherent effort to proof the other side wrong.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
You only say that because you lost and are too lazy to come up with a coherent effort to proof the other side wrong.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Actually, the votes say otherwise.
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That's just because most of the people cast their votes based off of ridiculous claims that you and others made in this thread with no sources. And right now, you are not providing a coherent argument. You are basically saying "It's too late, everyone was convinced by me despite me not providing any proof, so why do I have to justify myself to you?"
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Ok, how about this?
Most of what I've seen in the Star Wars films couldn't POSSIBLY compare to anything from the 40K universe?
The blasters and lasers, they don't seem particularly powerful, against unshielded targets, they appear to just glance and glance until things start to fall off.
Against shielded and heavily armored enemies, like the Imperium's Navy, I'd highly doubt their space weapons would do much, Remember, in Star Wars, tech always seems to downgrade the further into the future you get. I don't know what Star Wars uses for shielding, but it always goes down after the first hit. :-/. I highly doubt those wimpy little lasers could penetrate a Cruiser's Void Shielding.
Let's talk ground forces. The Empire is extremely Outmatched. In every possible way. The Imperium isn't afraid to just throw bodies at a problem until it goes away. Plus, the Imperium's weapons of war are much more dangerous than those of the empire. Ooh, blasters, big whoop, REgular issue equipment among the Imperium's Military include Boltguns, Flamers, Meltaguns, Plasma Guns, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Las Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Grav Guns (Yes, it's exactly how it sounds) Missile Launchers, Chain Swords, Power Swords, Power Axes, Power Fists, Chain Fists, Combi-weapons.
Not to Mention, vehicle weaponry goes into whole new levels of bad-assery. How about the Apocalypse Missile Launcher? Infernus Cannon, Plasma Destroyer, Many titan Weapons are classified as "destroyer" type weapons, One shot from them and the empire's biggest, baddest war machines go down. Not to mention the largest Land Vehicle the empire has, (The At-At) Is literally dwarfed by the Imperium's Warhound Titans, and is outmatched by its' speed.
Overall, the Imperium is a battle hardened, fearless, killing machine driven by war.
The Empire is a soft, cushy dictatorship, they wouldn't last a month in the 40K universe.
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As I said, you are relying only on what was in the films, despite the fact that the EU has much more that raises the Empire's power-level significantly. You can say all that you want about the EU being dismantled, but since that was not in the discussion when this thread was started, I see no reason why the rules of this discussion should be changed midway. When you add the EU, Palpatine has the ability to manipulate space and time and destroy matter from any distance and the empire has access to superweapons much more powerful than the Death Star (the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators, the Sun Crusher). They don't need a strong military if they have those.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Really? Plot Armor, Plot Armor, and oh yeah? More Plot Armor?
Really bro, if they had all that, then there really wouldn't have been a point to episodes 4-6, They could've just used superweapons and destroyed everything, There had to be a reason they couldn't use those until AFTER Palpatine's death. And this takes place before RotJ. So they don't have those, period.
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Tell me where in the OP it says that this takes place before RotJ.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Cool off, you two.
You can use the EU, but you need to make sure the weapons are available in the applicable time frame. Also, remember Movies > Word of Authority > Books > Comics > Video Games when it comes to Star Wars canon. Much of what Palpatine told Luke in Dark Empire was a lie, and the Force Storm ability isn't something that can be used repeatedly. A lot of the EU super weapons were under construction or only prototypes during the movies, while the Death Stars were a production-ready product.
However, the Empire DID have Thrawn at that point, and at least the ability to level planets. I don't know enough about the 40k universe to make a definitive statement, but it's my impression that much of their technology reaches almost magic levels of power.
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Before Palpatine's death is technically before his final death, which was at the end of Dark Empire. Also, Force Storm was used repeatably in Dark Empire, which shows that it can be used multiple times.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I meant before his ROTJ Death, which is what the OP specified. And as far as the force storm, I meant rapidly, not repeatedly.
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Actually, the OP does not specify which death it was talking about.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The Spirit of the OP was his death in RotJ, only a few, die hard fans really know that there were multiple palpatine clones.
The Films leave it as his death. That's the only one most people would be familiar with.
So, basically, you have a half-corpse palpatine and Darth Vader, who are like, the last force-users openly strutting their stuff, versus a galaxy filled with beings who are capable of much more than them. Psykers and Librarians are no easy foe, If one Librarian has the guts and skills to stand up to a Bloodthirster, and almost win (remember, Bloodthirsters are avatars of the Chaos God Khorne, Their martial prowess and physical strength are universally feared. The Bloodthirster is the ultimate embodiment of battle) Then just one would definitely be more than a handful for Darth Vader and Palpatine, who in his decripid age I don't expect to last long in a physical confrontation.
Then there's the Grey Knights, all of which are inherently Psychic (Brotherhood of Psykers, All utilize Psychic Hoods to contentrate and hone their abilities, and block the abilities of their enemies.) And they use shells blessed by tears from the Emperor. Making them stronger. Psybolt shells are kinda nasty. They're highly trained to fight the supernatural abilities of their enemies. So, they can fight Darth and palpatine pretty handily. And they have Personal Teleporters so they could just teleport into Palpatine's conference chamber, and slay him.
Also, who do you think is the more invigorated fighter? one who fights for political dominance through trickery and subterfuge, or one who fights with Religious Zeal?
I'm going with the Zealots who fight in the Emprah's name.
"Beware the alien, the mutant, the heretic."
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